Anyone seen the cuts coming to the student discount from 30% off down to 20% off? Its hard to purchase the things I want out of logos being a student. I have to admit the discount is a huge help and draw but to lower it is a sad day for me.
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Yes, I saw this in my inbox this morning too! This news, along with the news of Logos Now subscriptions, etc.... makes me worried about the future of Logos. It seems they're getting a little more desperate for our money. They need more money so they're going to take it from the students? Many things on Logos are overpriced anyway, so the 30% student discount is the only way I could afford many things. I'm afraid this move will backfire on Logos. As I know for me at least, lowering my discount means I will be giving less business to this company, not more. This move seems counter-productive for a company that is trying to squeeze more money from its customers.
I love how the e-mail says "personalized offers" too. Wow, what a personal offer! lol. [:)]
Yes, I received this email notification as well! I am disappointed in Logos. It is a great software but many of its products are way overpriced. The student discount helps a lot in making its products much more affordable. And now they want to reduce it?!?!? It seems like this Bible software is becoming a greedy big business.
1 Tim. 6:10 "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs."
I also heard about Logos switching to a subscription-based plan, similar to what Microsoft has done. If they indeed make this change that will be the end of Logos for me, just like Microsoft's change to subscriptions ended my relationship with their products. I understand that there is a lot of work that makes the Logos software possible. But I thought the goal was to make the Bible more accessible, not less accessible by charging more!!!
I encourage Logos to think long and hard before making money-making decisions like these. They might bring a quick end to their success if they choose unwisely because pastors and students will not be able to afford these products.
This hurts... Students are poor and many in piles of debt! It's nice to give us a break! Why not keep the discount at 30%?
I also heard about Logos switching to a subscription-based plan, similar to what Microsoft has done....
The word is that the subscription plan is to complement and not replace the downloadable version as per this forum post.
Yeah, the subscription thing really makes no sense to me. I'm not quite sure what they are doing with that or what the goal is with that. What about those who have put in their hard earned money into a package and now you make it available all for 8.99 a month. Am I missing something here?
So are many seniors and people on social security and/or food stamps yet I see no special discounts offered to any in those groups [:(]
If Logos offered me a 30% discount off a base package before May 1st I would bite their hand off, and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one.
First adobe came with subscriptions, then Microsoft, now logos.
A world where everything becomes subscription based is one where customers are placed second in the name of increased service when really it's more about increased revenue.
Brian, I sure hope you're right...
David, I think you missed the point. Students have always had a 30% discount. Now Logos is trying to take that away by lowering it to 20% effective May 1. It's not that they are doing a special deal of 30% before May 1. They are taking something away (10%) that they have always provided.
What about those who have put in their hard earned money into a package and now you make it available all for 8.99 a month. Am I missing something here?
The Logos Now subscription is to add to / enhance what we have in base packages etc - it doesn't provide those base packages or other resources
I am afraid you all need to check the facts here before posting. Logos has not switched to a subscription-based model, and Bob Pritchett has also explicitly stated that they will continue to offer the existing model. The subscription offering gives you a number of things, including access to a new web app that will eventually provide most of the functionality of the desktop, access to some additional desktop functions early (probably before they are included in Logos 7), some new datasets and some promised special offers for those who subscribe. It is simply not true that what you have already invested in is available for $8.99 a month, nor that they are switching to a subscription-based model. You can find out about all of this in the Logos Now forum, you've probably received an email from them about it and it's also on the Logos Home page of the desktop app. ou can also have a free one-month subscription to try it out.
They are trying to reach a new market, to lower the entry bar for new users, as well as to smooth out their revenue streams. All of those things seem to me to be in the long-term interests of Logos/Faithlife and its users, which in turn makes our investment in the program more secure. Please remember that non-Logos users read these forums, and would get a completely wrong (and almost defamatory) impression of Logos from some of the posts in this thread. That poses far more of a long-term threat to the company than any of what is being discussed here.
As far as Academic discount is concerned, Logos doesn't have to give us any discount, and I am very grateful for the Academic Discount I have received in the past, although I am no longer part of this program.
I am afraid you all need to check the facts here before posting. Logos has not switched to a subscription-based model, and Bob Pritchett has also explicitly stated that they will continue to offer the existing model.
Yes I know this. I have checked the facts. I am glad that Faithlife can offer a subscription based model to those who want that. And I am choosing to trust that Bob Pritchett is a man of his word and will continue to offer the regular model for everyone else who does not want a subscription-based approach. If you look at the trend of other companies, this movement is typically a middle-ground, transition point to going fully subscription based. I hope that this middle ground position isn't just a way for easing us into an eventual fully subscription based model and an attempt to soften the blow of that impact. Obviously we have no way of knowing that for sure except trusting Bob Pritchett's word. I trust his word, but I'm still uncomfortable with the recent developments.
Either way, the point of this conversation is not about Logos Now subscriptions. There are plenty of other threads on that already. The point of this conversation is that the reduction of the student discount is concerning. And for me personally (and it seems for others too), this change, coupled with the recent Logos Now subscription addition is even more concerning to me. There seems to be a noticeable trend where Logos is trying to suddenly increase revenue. Which is understandable, but my point is that the way they are going about doing it does not make any sense to me. As I explained earlier, I think that this reduction in the student discount is the last place they should be looking to increase revenue. I have no doubt in my mind that this will decrease revenue. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly customer lol. [:)]
Is this change across the board or base package related?
A student discount is an incredible gift whether it is 30% percent or 20% and is something that Logos never had to give us. To complain that a "gift" that was reduced makes Logos greedy or saying they don't care about the customer makes no sense to me. Sure I would love to have 30% off but I know that the gift has saved me thousands of dollars and the 20% will continue to do that. Thank you Logos for the gift!
Bill
Matthew I can assure you I have not missed the point, merely pointing out that those of us who have to pay the full price for resources are grateful for any discount Logos may at times offer us, and happily accept it with an attitude of gratitude rather than entitlement.
I'm grateful for the academic discount I've had to date, and for the academic discount which Logos will continue to offer, albeit it at a reduced rate.
There are many Logos users on limited budgets who'd bite our hands off for any discount - especially the permanent kind! [:D]
A student discount is an incredible gift whether it is 30% percent or 20% and is something that Logos never had to give us. To complain that a "gift" that was reduced makes Logos greedy or saying they don't care about the customer makes no sense to me. Sure I would love to have 30% off but I know that the gift has saved me thousands of dollars and the 20% will continue to do that. Thank you Logos for the gift! Bill
Logos did not provide a 30% off academic discount on everything across the board. Many of the sales to the non-academic public were at better prices than the academic discount. Logos makes a profit on academic sales. The academic discount is not giving free gifts out. They are a company for profit.
I am afraid you all need to check the facts here before posting. Logos has not switched to a subscription-based model, and Bob Pritchett has also explicitly stated that they will continue to offer the existing model. Yes I know this. I have checked the facts. I am glad that Faithlife can offer a subscription based model to those who want that. And I am choosing to trust that Bob Pritchett is a man of his word and will continue to offer the regular model for everyone else who does not want a subscription-based approach. If you look at the trend of other companies, this movement is typically a middle-ground, transition point to going fully subscription based. I hope that this middle ground position isn't just a way for easing us into an eventual fully subscription based model and an attempt to soften the blow of that impact. Obviously we have no way of knowing that for sure except trusting Bob Pritchett's word. I trust his word, but I'm still uncomfortable with the recent developments. Either way, the point of this conversation is not about Logos Now subscriptions. There are plenty of other threads on that already. The point of this conversation is that the reduction of the student discount is concerning. And for me personally (and it seems for others too), this change, coupled with the recent Logos Now subscription addition is even more concerning to me. There seems to be a noticeable trend where Logos is trying to suddenly increase revenue. Which is understandable, but my point is that the way they are going about doing it does not make any sense to me. As I explained earlier, I think that this reduction in the student discount is the last place they should be looking to increase revenue. I have no doubt in my mind that this will decrease revenue. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly customer lol.
Either way, the point of this conversation is not about Logos Now subscriptions. There are plenty of other threads on that already. The point of this conversation is that the reduction of the student discount is concerning. And for me personally (and it seems for others too), this change, coupled with the recent Logos Now subscription addition is even more concerning to me. There seems to be a noticeable trend where Logos is trying to suddenly increase revenue. Which is understandable, but my point is that the way they are going about doing it does not make any sense to me. As I explained earlier, I think that this reduction in the student discount is the last place they should be looking to increase revenue. I have no doubt in my mind that this will decrease revenue. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly customer lol.
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David, I am also very grateful for the student discount, whether it is 30% or 20%! [:)] It has helped me substantially to become a Logos software and resource owner. However, Logos resources seem to be getting more expensive and then they want to reduce the student discount? Why?!?! It seems like there is a money issue here and that is my concern. Logos has a far superior product to offer in this market. My fear is that the lessening competition (Accordance and BibleWorks don't have near as much to offer) is causing Logos to think in terms of monopolization. "We own the market so we can charge what we want and the customers will have to just cope with it." In such a case, all customers lose out--students and non-students. For many the loss will be a lack of financial ability to purchase such a great software because it is way overpriced. Having concern, I do not believe can be classified as entitlement. Being frustrated with being charged more money for the same products because a company seems to be getting more money-hungry is not entitlement. I would hate to see Logos put themselves out of business because they are charging too much for their products and thereby eliminating their clientele. They have to make money; I get that. But what about the customer? Are we to sit by and allow them to charge us whatever they want because their focus has wrongly shifted from the product to the money? This is why I think this is a worthy forum issue, especially for students and pastors whose sacrificial service to the church comes with a sacrificial income (unless you're a televangelist, which is a whole other issue [;)]) that makes it difficult for them to own such an expensive software.
Either way, the point of this conversation is not about Logos Now subscriptions.
Quite right, but several of the posts contained unhelpful inaccuracies and uninformed speculation. Your original post speculated about the viability of the company, another incorrectly stated that they are switching to a subscription model, and another wrongly said that the subscription model included everything that the rest of us have paid for over time.
My concern (and I'm neither a Logos employee nor an MVP, just a humble user) is that these all give a wrong impression to those coming to these forums thinking of buying Logos software. Speculation here about future viability is potentially far more damaging to the future of Faithlife than almost anything else, and is potentially damaging to all of us who have invested in Logos products as well.
Point well taken. However, I think that these forums are a good place for loyal customers who have given Faithlife hundreds if not thousands of dollars of business to voice their concerns. If Faithlife/Logos is making some concerning moves, they can't expect that everyone on the forums are only going to be saying positive things about it all the time. I think having a place for the community to voice concerns is healthy.
Timothy,
Several years ago Bob P asked us if we wanted the latest books from publishers, and that if we did, that publishers were going to want 50% of the books list price for royalties. Much of the increase in book prices we are seeing is that publishers are wanting more to license their hot new titles. Look at the dates on the prepub page, a good portion is titles written in the last 5 years. 15 - 20 years ago bible software mostly consisted of public domain books
I don't think Logos is greedy or desperate for money, but the costs to have the latest books is going up. Also data sets that are continually expanding need to be funded by more that a one time base package purchase. Logos has stated most of the customer base doesn't buy more that just the base package.
I used to look at my print library, and just dream about what I wished Logos would produce. Today just about every item I longed to see digital has become a reality. So for me I am a very happy camper.
My concern (and I'm neither a Logos employee nor an MVP, just a humble user) is that these all give a wrong impression to those coming to these forums thinking of buying Logos software. Speculation here about future viability is potentially far more damaging to the future of Faithlife than almost anything else, and is potentially damaging to all of us who have invested in Logos products as well. Point well taken. However, I think that these forums are a good place for loyal customers who have given Faithlife hundreds if not thousands of dollars of business to voice their concerns. If Faithlife/Logos is making some concerning moves, they can't expect that everyone on the forums are only going to be saying positive things about it all the time. I think having a place for the community to voice concerns is healthy.
Is spreading misinformation (and rationalizing the spread of misinformation) healthy? This is a general question and not directed at what you posted earlier.
Disappointing. I may not re-new my academic pricing. Sometimes I have to buy books twice, they are more difficult, or maybe impossible to transfer, and now the discount will be less than most sales. I'll probably just buy the sales Right after they are released and right before a new batch are released everyone gets 30%.
I could be wrong, but the email states that the change in discount from 30% to 20% is for base packages, not individual resources and collections/bundles. It may be helpful for Faithlife to comment and clear up the confusion, but you should still receive the normal academic discount on purchases outside of base package purchases.
I could be wrong, but ....
No. You're right. It's the same comment made by ST above about an hour and a half ago. It's clear in the e-mail.
It's clear in the e-mail.
Hmmm, well I hope you guys are right! Actually though, I still do not think the e-mail was very clear on this and clarification from a Faithlife employee would be helpful.
The e-mail says:
Currently, your enrollment in the Academic Discount Program provides you with 30% off Logos 6 base packages. On May 1, student discounts will be lowered to 20% off.
It doesn't say that only student discounts on base packages will be lowered to 20%, it just says student discounts. It is in the context of the previous sentence which does talk about base packages, but my guess is that's just because they're trying to sell you on a base package in the e-mail.
I got that same email yesterday. I took it to mean base packages. Whatever the discount I am thankful to Faithlife for as long as it lasts And am thankful for having had it these last few months. So, thanks Faithlife folks!
How does one know if Faithlife/Logos/or whatever is either making money or is viable if it is a private company that limits disclosure of sales figure...unless of course someone has made such information public so that we are...absolutely...accurate in all statements about this company.
Disappointing. I may not re-new my academic pricing. Sometimes I have to buy books twice, they are more difficult, or maybe impossible to transfer, and now the discount will be less than most sales. I'll probably just buy the sales Right after they are released and right before a new batch are released everyone gets 30%. I could be wrong, but the email states that the change in discount from 30% to 20% is for base packages, not individual resources and collections/bundles. It may be helpful for Faithlife to comment and clear up the confusion, but you should still receive the normal academic discount on purchases outside of base package purchases.
Bob mentioned last year a 4 or 5% profit margin, and that this was higher than some years, and right where they planned to be so they could expand.
But I don't know of any other disclosure besides that. I know what I've spent in the last year could probably support a part time employee...
As a poor seminary student, I too am disappointed to see that the Academic Discount is being reduced by a third. As it is, resources purchased with the academic discount can't be sold or transferred. If the discount is to be reduced so, we should at least be able to transfer or sell the resources just like a physical book.
I too am disappointed to see that the Academic Discount is being reduced by a third.
It is only on the base package purchases.
Hello, everyone.
As requested, I would like to clarify that the current discount on base packages for students is 30% off. On May 1, the discount on base packages will change to 20% off.
As for individual products, these are handled on a case-by-case basis and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Currently, for example, students receive significant discounts on the following works:
Finally, let me assure you that we are following your comments. And while other responsibilities may not allow us to respond as quickly as we might like, we do appreciate your feedback.
As requested, I would like to clarify that the current discount on base packages for students is 30% off. On May 1, the discount on base packages will change to 20% off. Finally, let me assure you that we are following your comments. And while other responsibilities may not allow us to respond as quickly as we might like, we do appreciate your feedback.
I was also sad to see this change. The reason basically being that in my opinion Faithlife doesn't currently offer a base package that really competes directly price-wise with the competition to get you the basic-resources-you-need-as-a-student (the Academic Package, which is very good, although unavailable for Verbum currently I believe, is still considerably more expensive, even after the 30% discount). That will only increase with this change.
I would like to see Faithlife try to make it as easy as possible for students to get their foot in the door. Most of them will then be customers for life, of course.
Regarding the comments in a previous post that this might reflect a monopolistic mentality - if that is the case, it is poorly placed here. In fact, maybe the one area of Bible-software-competition where Faithlife is furthest away from having anything like a monopoly is the university classroom.
Faithlife doesn't currently offer a base package that really competes directly price-wise with the competition to get you the basic-resources-you-need-as-a-student (the Academic Package,
The competition doesn't currently offer a base package that really compares directly feature-wise with Faithlife. Now if Faithlife offered a truncated version at a lower price point with some basic resources they could capture more sales.
Thank you for the clarification on this Jonathan Watson!
Somewhat relieved that individual titles/sets may still be discounted (depending on publisher-faithlife agreement, etc.).
Quick followup: Will this discount from 30% to 20% only be for L6?
Will the discount be re-implemented to 30% when (-gulp-) a future Logos 7 (+) comes out?
As many have commented before -- very grateful for the discount as a seminary student!!!
Thanks and blessings
in HIM
rs
Quick followup: Will this discount from 30% to 20% only be for L6? Will the discount be re-implemented to 30% when (-gulp-) a future Logos 7 (+) comes out?
Bob Pritchett steadfastly refuses to predict the future, so it is highly unlikely that any FL employee could answer your question.
What about those who have put in their hard earned money into a package and now you make it available all for 8.99 a month. Am I missing something here.
First of all I would like to thank those who were trying help clarify for me the subscription question I had. To those who thought I was spreading misinformation, I apologize because that was not my intention. As you can see by what I said I was asking for clarity (some help). I asked if I was missing something, in other words, am I understanding this right? I was not trying to spread misinformation, please understand me.
But being OP on this thread, I was asking about the 30% discount going away. Honestly, soon Logos will debut version 7, "the best Logos software ever!" I barely was able to afford version 6, but thanks to the 30% off, it was much more bearable. Why take it down a notch for students? Look I get that book are costing more and publishers want more. I get that. However, should student discounts be lowered?
Why not offer packages that do not contain so many other resources that many people do not plan to ever use? I know scholars who appreciate Logos but tell me they are professors and don't need some of this and some of that. I know pastors that tell me they don't need this or that in the software. Could it be available to the customer to customization in their package?
What if Logos released version 7 with all the new technologies developed and the tools needed to make those operational but not all the other books some of us do not want that is making an upgrade as a student so expensive? Then the student discount could also remain at 30% because you are not putting into these packages books with publishers who are wanting so much from Logos.
I guess what I am saying is why not make Logos more customizable? What if person doesn't want all these pastoral counseling books? What if a person doesn't want the latest theological books? What if person doesn't want the latest archeological books, commentaries, journals, devotionals, or whatever the case may be for that person? What if that person only wants Logos 7, 30% discount as a student, Greek and Hebrew tools, and maybe atlas capabilities? You'd have that customer for life. Eventually they will discover many other resources logos has and purchase more in the long run.
I don't know, it is all just a suggestion and that is what these forums are for. I'm not trying to criticize, but add to the discussion and question is it really a good thing to drop the 30% discount. I know at my seminary many people who want to purchase Logos, they have it on a wish list but think its too expensive even with 30% off. However, if it was more customizable, with 30% off, packages in price could drop and students would be in the door (volume anyone?).
Many years ago, I call it my B.C. time, I worked for Anheuser Busch for many years. I was in sales and marketing. (Let me say that was years ago, I no longer work there)
What A/B did was lower the price of the product so cheap to the wholesaler, in turn we convinced the wholesaler to turn the savings on to the customer. In their (the wholesaler) mind that was hard because they see profits. However, A/B's motto was, ok so you make huge margins on your product you bought cheap from us to a few customers (FEW). What I am saying is low volume, which equals less money. You've priced the product so high that yeah you are making great margins but no one is buying it. So it doesn't really matter.
However, if you turn the savings over to the customer as we are giving you, it may appear as if your margins are lower but in reality... You are getting more people into your business to buy more beer. When they buy more beer you make more money. Its called volume and it works every time. We had the sales figures to prove it. It always worked. Not only do you get more customers, you get more customers in your store more often. So they are in your store not just buying beer but maybe gum, chips, ice, whatever, but it was additional.
So if logos make the product more affordable, maybe by customization to the customer, they could get customers into the door of the ecosystem (the store) and now the customer is in they are more apt to buy something else while they are in. Not to mention they come more often as well. I think keeping the 30% for students is better than dropping it to 20%.
I know for me at least, lowering my discount means I will be giving less business to this company, not more.
Try not to let the door smack you on the backside as you exit. [B]
Many years ago, I call it my B.C. time, I worked for Anheuser Busch for many years. I was in sales and marketing. (Let me say that was years ago, I no longer work there) What A/B did was lower the price of the product so cheap to the wholesaler, in turn we convinced the wholesaler to turn the savings on to the customer. In their (the wholesaler) mind that was hard because they see profits. However, A/B's motto was, ok so you make huge margins on your product you bought cheap from us to a few customers (FEW). What I am saying is low volume, which equals less money. You've priced the product so high that yeah you are making great margins but no one is buying it. So it doesn't really matter. However, if you turn the savings over to the customer as we are giving you, it may appear as if your margins are lower but in reality... You are getting more people into your business to buy more beer. When they buy more beer you make more money. Its called volume and it works every time. We had the sales figures to prove it. It always worked. Not only do you get more customers, you get more customers in your store more often. So they are in your store not just buying beer but maybe gum, chips, ice, whatever, but it was additional. So if logos make the product more affordable, maybe by customization to the customer, they could get customers into the door of the ecosystem (the store) and now the customer is in they are more apt to buy something else while they are in. Not to mention they come more often as well. I think keeping the 30% for students is better than dropping it to 20%.
You may be correct, in which case perhaps Logos has reduced the profitability of its base packages by either reducing price or increasing costs (through additional resources on which a royalty has to be paid) to say 29% in which case if it gave an academic discount of 30% it would be losing money on every academic sale.
Of course, the cut in the student discount on base packages might be a preparatory move towards including more up-to-date, academically useful and high-quality resources into a new range of BPs, reducing the public-domain "padding". If they were to do that, it would have the effect of reducing their margins, which could in turn account for the reduction in the Student discount. If that gets things like BECNT back into the BPs, it is actually a positive development.
I'm not saying that is what is happening, and have no information to confirm or deny it, but FL rarely does these things arbitrarily, and the lack of comment from them on the topic suggests to me that there's something else brewing in the background.
That is exactly what Logos has done previously in L5 & 6 crossgrade options. Besides, it is unlikely that we will see L7 for at least another 2 years from the release of L6. Logos Now is basically a subscription service that allows users to gain access to L7 features as they are developed—for a fee. Other features of Logos Now are sweeteners to make the subscription fee more attractive.
As requested, I would like to clarify that the current discount on base packages for students is 30% off. On May 1, the discount on base packages will change to 20% off. As for individual products, these are handled on a case-by-case basis and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
As for individual products, these are handled on a case-by-case basis and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
Thank you so much for the clarification, Jonathan. This is good news!
I also just want to publicly say that I'm sorry if I have come across as rude or unappreciative in this thread. That has not been my intention. I am very thankful for any discount that Logos can provide. Part of my frustration about the discount being lowered is because I love Logos so much and have found it to be such a blessing to me and with limited finances, when that continued blessing appears threatened, I'm not happy. But, nonetheless, I will continue to be thankful for whatever discount Logos can provide to students.
Students (especially in the seminary) are prime customers for Logos because they will likely be faithful customers for life. So doing anything they can to make the cost of entry easier for this target group is a smart business decision on the part of Faithlife/Logos, in my opinion.
Try not to let the door smack you on the backside as you exit.
May God bless you, David Paul. [:)]
What I'd like to see is an Academic Base Package lineup. This would consist of variations of something like the standard package that Dallas Theological Seminary students receive when they enroll: http://www.dts.edu/logos/
My current resources are far greater than that DTS package, but if they were to offer a Platinum Academic Package it might be something I'd be interested in.
Wow...I shoulda went to DTS. How can other seminaries and schools get this type of deal?
http://www.dts.edu/logos/
For me, the principal practical result of this is that it decreases the chance that I will buy an Orthodox base package when they come out.
