Can someone tell what that means? If a church states in is doctrine of belief that we "affirm historic Christian orthodoxy," what is the implication? I can't find an answer to it anywhere, so I hope it's okay to ask here. If not, I apologize.
If a church states in is doctrine of belief that we "affirm historic Christian orthodoxy," what is the implication?
Probably it means that the church affirms the early creeds and promulgations of the ecumenic councils (including the Trinity of God and the nature of Christ as fully God and fully man)
If a church states in is doctrine of belief that we "affirm historic Christian orthodoxy," what is the implication? Probably it means that the church affirms the early creeds and promulgations of the ecumenic councils (including the Trinity of God and the nature of Christ as fully God and fully man)
Thanks! You make an interesting observation. When I click on their belief page, it opens to the Nicene Creed. They they say that The Nicene Creed gives a summary of the doctrinal commitments of their community. Where they tripped me up was by stating it as two separate things. This is their statement:
We affirm historic Christian orthodoxy and one of the earliest and most universally accepted of Christian creeds. We are a community in theological dialogue with the past and the present, seeking to understand and respond faithfully to the Gospel in our time.The Nicene Creed above gives a summary of the doctrinal commitments of this community. However, we do not think the best way to know what we believe is to read it off a page. We believe the best way to determine what someone, or some group of people, believe is to watch them - or better yet, join them and discover it from the inside.
On the side, I'm trying to find a church for my 24 year old daughter. The poor things moved a few months ago but hasn't been able to find a church home, and is a little tired of trying out a church cold-turkey.
Thanks for your help!
This thread could go downhill real quickly...
The best answer is probably, "who knows."
A statement like "we affirm historic Christian orthodoxy" isn't particularly helpful because all theologians I know would claim that their theology is both "historic" (long held beliefs) and "orthodox" (correct). Two theologians can have diametrically opposed beliefs and BOTH claim to have "history" and "orthodoxy" on their side.
Can someone tell what that means?
It would be best to interpret what they mean by "historic Christian orthodoxy" by their doctrinal statement as a whole... but even that may not be sufficient.
Hello Alabama:
I certainly hope it doesn't "go downhill quickly." I'm just trying to figure out what historical Christian orthodoxy means, as even when googled, it yields ZERO result.
I believe between the two of you, I have my answer. It probably is best that I contact them directly. Thanks for your help.
Very intriguing. I googled the first sentence in that and found five churches that use that exact statement as the beginning of their statement of beliefs. Continuing on to the second sentence, two of those five churches have that exact same next sentence. And with the exception of slightly different wording for the third sentence, they both say exactly the same thing with the rest of that paragraph. One of them either plagiarized from the other's website, or perhaps one was started as a spin-off from the other (though they are in different states) and adopted their same statement of faith.
The statement as you quoted it is from this church:
http://www.watermarktampa.com/what-we-believe
This is the almost identical statement from another church (note that they use the Apostles' Creed instead of the Nicene Creed):
We affirm historic Christian orthodoxy and one of the earliest and most universally accepted of Christian creeds. We are a community in theological dialogue with the past and the present, seeking to understand and respond faithfully to the gospel in our time.
The Apostles’ Creed gives a summary of the doctrinal commitments of this community. However, we do not think the best way to know what we believe is to read it off a page. We believe the best way to determine what someone, or some group of people, believe is to watch them—or better yet, join them and discover it from the inside.
http://www.valleychristianchurch.net/index.cfm/PageID/726/index.html
I wish you (and her) well. Generally adult children should probably be finding their own church rather than relying on their moms to do it for them. I know it's exhausting to try out several churches cold, but unless you already know someone in your new city who goes to church and can introduce you to their church, that's kind of the only way to do it. Websites help to a certain extent, but I confess when I looked at that one it seemed exactly the same as so many other contemporary churches. The only way to really get the vibe of a church is to visit. Also, she should recognize that no church is going to be perfect, because all churches are made up of imperfect people like us, so they're certainly going to disappoint us. That's part of being the Church. Learning how to get along with this crazy bunch of wounded believers who are trying their best, as we are, to grow spiritually and learn how better to live as Christ's disciples. We're all going to fail each other. Learning how to accept each other's limitations and move on to more depth in relationships is part of the process.
Rosie you WONDERFUL woman you!
Thank you so much for your information. You are amazing! Isn't it interesting to have found how closely related their wording is?
I admit not knowing how to search because I actually typed "what is historic Christian orthodoxy" and then historic Christian orthodoxy? and got nothing.
Yes, the church IS in Tampa. She has been going to churches cold, and last week wound up in a church because her 20 something friends told her to check it out. She went and said it was a circus...LITERALLY! People flying and dancing around. She said it was primarily focused on the congregation being entertained as opposed to the congregation worshiping, and so that was that. She asked a customer at her job today where they worship (she works every other Sunday) and they told her about this church. She viewed the website as well, but was perplexed by their statement of faith. Unfortunately, I wasn't much help! LOL
I agree that there is certainly no perfect church, and it would be imperfect anyway the minute I walked in, but since her time is so stressed with school and work, I'm trying to do help her by doing some preliminary research for her.
Again, thank you for your help.
BTW...I'm going to visit Karen in August! I can't wait!
This iPad will not let me quote a portion of your post, so I'll have to answer without a quote. I know that searching for a church can be a very discouraging operation. My wife and I spent six months looking, with many disappointments, before we found our current home. However, there are a few alternatives to a lot of visits. Pray for her, and tell her to remain faithful to the Lord and keep Trying.
Great! I'm so glad that connection was made for you through the Logos forums. You are truly a blessing to these forums with your enthusiasm and your love of learning.
I may be a minority here, but I find these statements very helpful and practical.
If a church affirms historic orthodoxy, and the Nicene Creed, that clearly tells me that they believe in the basic truths of the Christian faith, including the Trinity, the incarnation, both the divine and human nature of Jesus Christ, the crucifixion, and resurrection of Jesus from the dead, the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives today, and second coming of Christ, and eternal life.
They also have an appreciation for the significance of the Nicene Creed in Church history.
It tells me that they are likely more concerned about the essentials of the faith than demanding that I agree with their interpretation of every verse of Scripture. Sort of an agreement in essentials and tolerance on nonessentials.
Of course, it is possible that I might be a wrong fit for that church, or we may disagree on the meaning of some essentials. However, that is true no matter what their statement of faith says.
Call me a curmudgeon but here is my two cents worth: I won't pick it apart in this venue, but frankly, I am not sure what much of this statement truly means. It seems to be loaded with all sorts of warm, fuzzy words and phrases that any [non-thinking] person could sign on to, and yet be broad enough to accommodate any agenda. The fact that they are seemingly incapable or unwilling to be specific in what they believe (except for a lowest-common-denominator affirmation of the Nicene Creed) would lead me to conclude either (a) they really don't know what they believe or (b) they want to wear the clothes of orthodoxy for appearance sake but are harboring agendas that will, in fact, veer away from true orthodoxy (whether intentional or not) or (c) they are advocates of the Best-to-Let-Sleeping-Dogmas-Lie theory or (d) all of the above. If this sort of vague, indeterminate language appeared in a legal document, I would never sign.
I have often thought that the old party game called MadLibs could be easily adapted to the writing of a Statement of Faith and that there are many who, when it was completed and read, would gently rock back and forth and nod while piously saying, "Selah. Selah."
Obviously, such a statement as they have would appeal some and not to others. So would a more specific statement.
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