NICOT/NICNT vs. WBC
Ok, what are the comparisons/contrasts with these two commentary sets? Is the more expensive one really that much better?
thanks for your input.
Comments
-
Both are overall great sets. There are, in my opinion a few more weaker commentaries in the WBC and I prefer the format of the NICNT/OT. You should really review the format of the WBC if you have not already to see if you enjoy the way it is organized. Just my opinion. You cannot go wrong with either set as they are both excellent.
0 -
Michael S. said:
Ok, what are the comparisons/contrasts with these two commentary sets? Is the more expensive one really that much better?
thanks for your input.
I have both, and both series have some excellent volumes and some that are not top-tier volumes. I find the Word format somewhat irritating, whereas the NICOT/NT volumes are easier to use. You can actually buy individual volumes from both sets to make your own assessment, and then get Dynamic pricing for the whole series, which will credit you for the volume you've bought. Alternatively, you can buy them and use them for up to 30 days then return them if you're not happy with your purchase.
If I had a choice, I'd probably buy NICOT/NT as I find them easier to use, and I think there are probably more excellent commentaries in that series than WBC (although that's a very subjective judgment). I started with a few volumes of WBC then bought the whole series when it was on sale. Historically you're probably more likely to get WBC at a good price on Logos than NICOT/NT, although now Nelson has been bought by Zondervan I don't know if that will continue.
Sorry if that sounds a bit non-committal. If you can cope with the WBC format, and want a whole set rather than cherry-picking good volumes, WBC is likely to be better value, but if I had to choose between the two series I would probably jump for NICOT/NT.
Running Logos 6 Platinum and Logos Now on Surface Pro 4, 8 GB RAM, 256GB SSD, i5
0 -
If I had to do it again I would build my own personal set of commentaries based on individual buys instead of complete sets. I have my favorite commentaries and use them over and over anyhow. Currently, out of the 66 books of the bible 19 make the cut from WBC and most of it is in the old testament because there are much better new testament commentaries. NICOT/NICNT is slightly more because I favor a couple volumes of the new testament. I have my top 2 commentaries for each book of the bible prioritized. That's 132 commentaries and WVC make up for 19, NICOT make up for 15 in the OT and 8 in the NT.. there are other commentaries I have prioritized too.
0 -
Matt Hamrick said:
If I had to do it again I would build my own personal set of commentaries based on individual buys instead of complete sets. I have my favorite commentaries and use them over and over anyhow. Currently, out of the 66 books of the bible 19 make the cut from WBC and most of it is in the old testament because there are much better new testament commentaries. NICOT/NICNT is slightly more because I favor a couple volumes of the new testament. I have my top 2 commentaries for each book of the bible prioritized. That's 132 commentaries and WVC make up for 19, NICOT make up for 15 in the OT and 8 in the NT.. there are other commentaries I have prioritized too.
Can you share your list of commentaries and their priority?
0 -
I'd give the nod to NICOT/NICNT but there are enough decent volumes in WBC to make it worth having.
I realize there are economics involved, and that's important. And so is the fact that a commentary represents a whole lot of study and a good portion of a year or more preparation. Pretty good deal for us really.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
Michael S. said:
Ok, what are the comparisons/contrasts with these two commentary sets? Is the more expensive one really that much better?
Hi Michael
The WBC volumes are very good value. They are sometimes available as a disk from other bookshops/resellers. There are many excellent volumes in the set, e.g. Wenham on Genesis, Clines on Job, Craigie and Allen on Psalms, Williamson on Ezra-Nehemiah, Goldingay on Daniel, Dunn on Romans (as a different angle), Longenecker on Galatians, O'Brien on Colossians & Phlemon, Lane on Hebrews, Mounce on the Pastoral Epistles, Bauckham on Jude & 2 Peter. You have enough right there to make it worth purchasing the set. Many of the others are also good, with only a couple of volumes that I would rate as poor.
I didn't purchase the entire NICOT/NT series, so I can't comment on those. I chose to spend more widely, aiming for diversity rather than commentaries that just repeat what I already have. It's informative to read how Scripture has been handled across the board: different eras (historical and current), audiences (academic and devotional), ethnicities (European and American), views (conservative, liberal), traditions (Evangelical, Anglican, Catholic, Orthodox), ...
Hopefully you'll find all these different replies help to inform your choice.
0 -
if money wasn't an issue I would get them both. I'll probably start with WBC first since it's cheaper and it still ranked high. Some WBC volumes are ranked higher than NICOT/NT. The format is a little tricky but once you get used to it it's a breeze and a joy to read. I really enjoy Mounce on the pastoral epistles. Hopefully one of these days I'll be able to purchase it again but cheaper. Let's pray for a good sale to come along on the WBC like it happened with the NIVAC series ;-)
DAL
0 -
Michael said:Matt Hamrick said:
If I had to do it again I would build my own personal set of commentaries based on individual buys instead of complete sets. I have my favorite commentaries and use them over and over anyhow. Currently, out of the 66 books of the bible 19 make the cut from WBC and most of it is in the old testament because there are much better new testament commentaries. NICOT/NICNT is slightly more because I favor a couple volumes of the new testament. I have my top 2 commentaries for each book of the bible prioritized. That's 132 commentaries and WVC make up for 19, NICOT make up for 15 in the OT and 8 in the NT.. there are other commentaries I have prioritized too.
Can you share your list of commentaries and their priority?
Sure, I will have it here by Saturday.
0 -
Is it so that NICOT/NT uses transliterated Hebrew/Greek?
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
0 -
Majority pastors in Asia consider WBC as number #1 commentary. This is a fact.
0 -
Veli Voipio said:
Is it so that NICOT/NT uses transliterated Hebrew/Greek?
The commentators of both the WBC and the NICOT/NT worked from the Hebrew/Greek text, and they usually provide their own translation (rather than simply a transliteration). The WBC authors usually provide textual notes on their translation as well.
0 -
Allen Browne said:Veli Voipio said:
Is it so that NICOT/NT uses transliterated Hebrew/Greek?
The commentators of both the WBC and the NICOT/NT worked from the Hebrew/Greek text, and they usually provide their own translation (rather than simply a transliteration). The WBC authors usually provide textual notes on their translation as well.
Allen,
I think Veli referred to the practice of WBC to contain Greek text in Greek alphabet (λογος) while NICNT would use a transliteration into Latin alphabet, usually in cursive font (logos) and use Greek letters only in the footnotes.
Edit: a screenshot may show it better: left is a WBC, right a NICNT volume:
Have joy in the Lord!
0 -
"Better" depends on what you are looking for. Tell us more about that, and we can give you our opinions as to which set corresponds more closely to what you are seeking.
0 -
NB.Mick said:
I think Veli referred to the practice of WBC to contain Greek text in Greek alphabet (λογος) while NICNT would use a transliteration into Latin alphabet, usually in cursive font (logos) and use Greek letters only in the footnotes.
That's right, good to know, thanks a lot!
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
0 -
Yes indeed Dal. I just picked up NICOT/NT a while back and am still dealing with that, or else I'd pick up NIVAC right now too... maybe after the 6th.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Hello Michael,
Here are my prioritized commentaries for each book of the bible. There are some things that need to be said. First, my concise commentary is Carson New Bible Commentary. It is prioritized first. Then I have one complete series and that is the EEC which there are 8 volumes out so it is always number 1 in the passage guide when running it on one of those books. Also, I am Southern Baptist which means I rely heavily on the New American Commentary, probably more than I should. Also, some books cover the prophets over and over and when you prioritize one it will show up for another so I opted to just use the same one over and over. An example is WBC Vol 31 covering Hosea to Jonah. My previous numbers have been changed because I updated the list so my count of 19 is probably more like 15 and my count of NICOT/NICNT may be off now. Also, this list works for me. It probably will not work for someone else.Genesis
WBC Vol 1 and 2
NICOT 2 Vols
Exodus
NAC
Tyndale
Leviticus
NICOT
WBC Vol 4
Numbers
Tyndale
NAC
Deuteronomy
NAC
NICOT
Joshua
Tyndale
NICOT
Judges
NAC
Tyndale
Ruth
NAC
Tyndale
1/2 Samuel
NAC
ICC
1/2 Kings
NAC
ICC
1/2 Chronicles
WBC vol 14 and 15
Ezra/Nehemiah
WBC vol 16
NICOT
Esther
WBC vol 9
Tyndale
Job
WBC Vol 17 and 18a
Tyndale
Psalms
WBV Vol 19, 20, 21
Tyndale 2 Vols
Proverbs
NICOT 2 Vols
Tyndale
Ecclesiastes
NICOT
Tyndale
Song of Songs
NICOT
WBC Vol 23b
Isaiah
NICOT 2 Vols
NAC
Jeremiah and Lamentations
NAC
Tyndale
Ezekiel
NICOT 2 Vols
NAC
Daniel
WBC Vol 30
Tyndale
Hosea
WBC Vol 31
NAC
Joel
WBC Vol 31
NAC
NICOT
Amos
WBC Vol 31
NICOT
NAC
Obadiah
WBC Vol 31
NICOT
Jonah
WBC 31
NICOT
NAC
Micah
Tyndale
Bruce Waltke
Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah
NICOT
NAC
Haggai
NAC
NICOT
Tyndale
Zechariah
NAC
Tyndale
Malachi
NICOT
NAC
Tyndale
Matthew
PNTC
Cornerstone
Mark
NIGTC
NICNT
Luke
BECNT 2 Vols
NAC
John
PNTC
BECNT
Acts
NICNT
BECNT
Romans
BECNT
NICNT
1 Corinthians
BECNT
NICNT
2 Corinthians
NAC
NIGTC
Galatians
BECNT
NIGTC
Ephesians
PNTC
BECNT
Philippians
NIGTC
NICNT
Colossians and Philemon
PNTC
NIGTC
Thessalonians
NIGTC
PNTC
The Pastoral Epistles
WBC Vol 46
NIGTC
Hebrews
NICNT
PNTC
James
PNTC
NIGTC
1 Peter
BECNT
NICNT
2 Peter and Jude
BECNT
PNTC
Johannine Epistle
PNTC
Tyndale
Revelation
NIGTC
NICNTWhen I acquire NIVAC there are some that will be changed out. There you have it.
Matt
0 -
In trying to evaluate the usefulness of this list, I have to wonder where on the spectrum you find your self - might help to know a denominational background, and whether you find your self the same as, or more, or less conservative than said denomination.Matt Hamrick said:Hello Michael,
Here are my prioritized commentaries for each book of the bible. There are some things that need to be said. First, my concise commentary is Carson New Bible Commentary. It is prioritized first. Then I have one complete series and that is the EEC which there are 8 volumes out so it is always number 1 in the passage guide when running it on one of those books. Also, I am Southern Baptist which means I rely heavily on the New American Commentary, probably more than I should. Also, some books cover the prophets over and over and when you prioritize one it will show up for another so I opted to just use the same one over and over. An example is WBC Vol 31 covering Hosea to Jonah. My previous numbers have been changed because I updated the list so my count of 19 is probably more like 15 and my count of NICOT/NICNT may be off now. Also, this list works for me. It probably will not work for someone else.Genesis
WBC Vol 1 and 2
NICOT 2 Vols
Exodus
NAC
Tyndale
Leviticus
NICOT
WBC Vol 4
Numbers
Tyndale
NAC
Deuteronomy
NAC
NICOT
Joshua
Tyndale
NICOT
Judges
NAC
Tyndale
Ruth
NAC
Tyndale
1/2 Samuel
NAC
ICC
1/2 Kings
NAC
ICC
1/2 Chronicles
WBC vol 14 and 15
Ezra/Nehemiah
WBC vol 16
NICOT
Esther
WBC vol 9
Tyndale
Job
WBC Vol 17 and 18a
Tyndale
Psalms
WBV Vol 19, 20, 21
Tyndale 2 Vols
Proverbs
NICOT 2 Vols
Tyndale
Ecclesiastes
NICOT
Tyndale
Song of Songs
NICOT
WBC Vol 23b
Isaiah
NICOT 2 Vols
NAC
Jeremiah and Lamentations
NAC
Tyndale
Ezekiel
NICOT 2 Vols
NAC
Daniel
WBC Vol 30
Tyndale
Hosea
WBC Vol 31
NAC
Joel
WBC Vol 31
NAC
NICOT
Amos
WBC Vol 31
NICOT
NAC
Obadiah
WBC Vol 31
NICOT
Jonah
WBC 31
NICOT
NAC
Micah
Tyndale
Bruce Waltke
Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah
NICOT
NAC
Haggai
NAC
NICOT
Tyndale
Zechariah
NAC
Tyndale
Malachi
NICOT
NAC
Tyndale
Matthew
PNTC
Cornerstone
Mark
NIGTC
NICNT
Luke
BECNT 2 Vols
NAC
John
PNTC
BECNT
Acts
NICNT
BECNT
Romans
BECNT
NICNT
1 Corinthians
BECNT
NICNT
2 Corinthians
NAC
NIGTC
Galatians
BECNT
NIGTC
Ephesians
PNTC
BECNT
Philippians
NIGTC
NICNT
Colossians and Philemon
PNTC
NIGTC
Thessalonians
NIGTC
PNTC
The Pastoral Epistles
WBC Vol 46
NIGTC
Hebrews
NICNT
PNTC
James
PNTC
NIGTC
1 Peter
BECNT
NICNT
2 Peter and Jude
BECNT
PNTC
Johannine Epistle
PNTC
Tyndale
Revelation
NIGTC
NICNTWhen I acquire NIVAC there are some that will be changed out. There you have it.
Matt
Not trying to start a debate, or pry overly deep. Thanks even if you choose not to answer
! L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
I did say I was Southern Baptist and do consider myself very conservative. I am a military veteran that votes Republican. I have been tainted with dispensation doctrine that I am slowly working myself out of. I am sinner in need of grace. What more do you need to know?
0 -
For a rated list of commentaries, you might also consider the ratings here:
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
I don't have a list but my view is similar to Matt's. I am Lutheran, and I have Lenski's NT commentary set, but I´ve put it into the medium priority. I don't have NICOT/NT nor BECNT but looks like buying BECNT is not a bad idea for me.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
0 -
I missed the southern baptist partMatt Hamrick said:I did say I was Southern Baptist and do consider myself very conservative. I am a military veteran that votes Republican. I have been tainted with dispensation doctrine that I am slowly working myself out of. I am sinner in need of grace. What more do you need to know?
Sounds like you come from a similar background and perspective (minus the military background). Thank you - both for your answers and your service to our country!L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
They are both excellent commentaries. I bought the Word Biblical Commentary years before I bought there NICOT/NT because it was considerably cheaper, and almost as good.
There are different opinions, I'm sure. But I personally prefer the NICOT/NT, and find it more useful. However, the gap between the two is not very big, to tell the truth. Some volumes are better in one than the other.
If money is a factor, and for whom is not, go with Word. Otherwise, go with NICOT/NT. That is my advice.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
abondservant said:
I missed the southern baptist partMatt Hamrick said:I did say I was Southern Baptist and do consider myself very conservative. I am a military veteran that votes Republican. I have been tainted with dispensation doctrine that I am slowly working myself out of. I am sinner in need of grace. What more do you need to know?
Sounds like you come from a similar background and perspective (minus the military background). Thank you - both for your answers and your service to our country!No worries but I knew you were Southern Baptist because you stated it before. And you are very welcome. I would do it again if I could.
0 -
Hands down the NICOT/NICNT set is superior to the WBC. That being said, for the money, the WBC is probably a better value because of its much lower price. Really, you wouldn't go wrong with either one.
0 -
Greg Corbin said:
Hands down the NICOT/NICNT set is superior to the WBC.
This is why I asked the OP to clarify what he was looking for, what would make, as it were, a particular set "better" for him. I for my part, if I could only own one of the two sets, would definitely pick WBC. As a matter of fact, I own pretty much all the WBC volumes but have only found it worth my while to purchase one NICNT volume so far (though I have consulted a fair number of them in print).
0 -
Francis, what do You think of the WBC 2 Cor volume by Ralph P. Martin (whether the old or the revised)? And how do You think it compares to NIGTC by Murray J. Harris?:
Francis said:if I could only own one of the two sets, would definitely pick WBC.
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
Unix said:
Francis, what do You think of the WBC 2 Cor volume by Ralph P. Martin (whether the old or the revised)? And how do You think it compares to NIGTC by Murray J. Harris?:
Francis said:if I could only own one of the two sets, would definitely pick WBC.
I can't give you much of an answer here. I have consulted them both, but not read them through, and it was not recent. I don't remember what I thought then. Sorry. Are you trying to decide which one to buy? Would it help if an excerpt from both was posted?
0 -
I spotted a used copy of the NIGTC set, that's why I asked. The volume I'm starting to get sure I want from that set, is the 1996 Colossians/Philemon volume by Dunn. This post: community.logos.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/109/1638.Lexham-Bible-Guide-_2D00_-2-Cor-_2D00_-Sample.pdf ... referencing Harris on 2 Cor.
EDIT: interesting that the description on Amazon of the NIGTC 2 Cor volume says that (interesting part bolded): "He gives special attention to matters of translation, making regular references not only to the standard modern English translations but also to influential older versions such as The Twentieth Century New Testament and those by Weymouth, Moffatt, and Goodspeed."I'll go to uni now to compare commentaries on 2 Cor as well as to evaluate the current ICC Acts offers:
Francis said:I can't give you much of an answer here. I have consulted them both, but not read them through, and it was not recent. I don't remember what I thought then. Sorry. Are you trying to decide which one to buy? Would it help if an excerpt from both was posted?:
Unix said:Francis, what do You think of the WBC 2 Cor volume by Ralph P. Martin (whether the old or the revised)? And how do You think it compares to NIGTC by Murray J. Harris?:
Francis said:if I could only own one of the two sets, would definitely pick WBC.
I guess the question is: how long before NT commentaries from the '90s and up to mid '00 get dated?Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
Unix said:
I'll go to uni now
From your uni online library access, you should be able to access a number of reviews of Harris or Martins' volumes by other scholars. I checked: there are some as illustrated below:
Unix said:I guess the question is: how long before NT commentaries from the '90s and up to mid '00 get dated?
It really all depends on the research specific to that book, but I doubt that solid mainstream commentaries would become so suddenly obsolete and of no value. What I do see is volumes that go on a tangent that is fashionable and then discarded, those go obsolete more quickly (I would think that the socio-rhetorical approach may be of that kind, not intending to start a debate about it though).
My research is not in Paul, so I am not as appraised about what has been happening with regard to 2 Corinthians in the last decade. An interesting sign would be to see what commentaries are more recent and to which extent they are dislodging older ones.
0 -
You've gotten great input, and my opinion is similar to others, but it might help you to know that this is another vote in that direction.
I agree with others that individual commentaries by particular authors in these two sets tend to be more significant than which series they come from. Having said that, I don't love the format of the Word series (to say the least). I also think there are more "very good" and above commentaries in the NIC series. However, for the radical difference in cost, I'd have a hard time buying the NIC series.
0 -
I hesitate to recommend anything to you Unix. You're views are semi-intangible. However I hope you find the answer you are looking for at your university.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
Unix said:
I guess the question is: how long before NT commentaries from the '90s and up to mid '00 get dated?That depends upon the methodology they use - whether or not the underlying data on which they base their commentary is apt to change quickly, if new information is going to be found.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
There were about five references to "gnosticism" in Martin, but in Harris there's about "proto-gnosticism" on pages 83-85 - maybe I should go back and read through that:
Francis said:I can't give you much of an answer here. I have consulted them both, but not read them through, and it was not recent. I don't remember what I thought then. Sorry. Are you trying to decide which one to buy? Would it help if an excerpt from both was posted?:
Unix said:Francis, what do You think of the WBC 2 Cor volume by Ralph P. Martin (whether the old or the revised)? And how do You think it compares to NIGTC by Murray J. Harris?
Congratulations for reaching 3,000 forum posts, abondservant!Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
Thanks Unix!
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0
