Anyone using Logos on a small inexpensive 8 inch Windows Tablet?
Anyone know of a small inexpensive (insert laughter here) Windows tablet that runs the full Logos app well?
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Is this deja vu? We've been down this road. There is one uplifting twist to the story. The touch screen highlighting/scrolling issues seem to have been addressed in windows 10. Only had the preview loaded for a week or so. ...but so far have not had any issues highlighting. In case you have forgotten our previous conversations, I use a Dell venue 8 pro. It performs flawlessly. The 64G version can be found for under $200. I consider that cheap. How 'bout you?
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Thanks Paul....I couldn't find any new updates and you just reminded and provided one. One of those puppies in your photo - free - and in need of a good home?
Blessings - Sir.
Joshua in Rhode Island
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Nope. No free puppies. [;)] Again I strongly recommend at least a 64G drive. Folks who tried to scrimp and bought the 32 G versions had to end up adding an add on 64 G SD card ... and still could not get the performance of the larger, built in drive. The Atoms fill a niche. They are silent, cool, and dependable. Just don't expect Ferrari performance from a Volkswagen.
Farfegnugen [:P]
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It's very painful. You'd be better off using Logos Now and the web app included if you can get online with your tablet. It runs very slowly even if you have enough storage.
I tried it on a Toshiba Encore 2 Write, a Dell Venue 8 and now I'm running it on a Surface 3 (not the surface pro). Of the three the Surface 3 works best, but it's also not inexpensive compared to the other two and not an 8-inch.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Was the Dell a Venue 8 Pro? With Windows 8? Did it have a 64 GB drive? I can't understand why our experiences are so different. I find the 8 pro more than adequate. Far from painful.Kevin A. Purcell said:I tried it on a Toshiba Encore 2 Write, a Dell Venue 8 and now I'm running it on a Surface 3
I have a Lenovo x220 tablet (convertible) It has i7, 8 GB ram, 128 GB SSD, and so on. (Very snappy indeed) But I leave it at home and take the Dell to Bible study. The portability is worth more than any performance boost provided by the bulkier Lenovo. I don't want to do in depth, extensive study/research on an 8 inch tablet. However, in the right environment, I see it as the cat's meow. [:D]
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I am deriving great satisfaction with the 64 GB Asus Vivo Tab Note 8. It runs my full Logos 6 on Windows 8.1 very nicely for general use when away from my 17" laptop and 21" external monitor.
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Paul C said:
Venue 8 Pro? With Windows 8? Did it have a 64 GB drive? I can't understand why our experiences are so different. I find the 8 pro more than adequate.
It was a Pro with Win8 and only 32GB of storage. The storage was one of the biggest points of hurt, but once I go it installed on a fast SD card it was so slow it wasn't worth the hassle and I returned it.
I don't think even 64 is enough for me, although it ran better on the Toshiba Encore 2 Write I had with 64GB of storage. It still wasn't fun and I couldn't install much else before it started to slow down. Again, I returned it and got the Surface 3. A far better experience than both.
I have extremely demanding expectations in terms of speed. So if I start an app and it's not ready to go in ten seconds I'm not happy. Logos doesn't do that on any computer I've ever used. However, waiting 20-30 seconds is okay, but not a minute which it took at the minimum to launch on most of the above devices.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
That explains the different results. Installed directly on the 64 GB drive, it skips right along. Logos warns against trying to install on an external drive...much less an SD card.Kevin A. Purcell said:It was a Pro with Win8 and only 32GB of storage.
Was the Toshiba the one that only had 1 GB of ram? Granted 64 GB doesn't give much headroom. But I only planned to install Logos and OneNote on the tablet. I never expected it to be a full function PC.Kevin A. Purcell said:I don't think even 64 is enough for me, although it ran better on the Toshiba Encore 2 Write I had with 64GB of storage. It still wasn't fun and I couldn't install much else before it started to slow down.
The Venue opens Logos in less than 20 seconds. It takes over 10 on both my laptop and PC.Kevin A. Purcell said:waiting 20-30 seconds is okay, but not a minute which it took at the minimum to launch on most of the above devices.
I think this explains where our opinions differ. I have high expectations when it comes to expensive/high tech laptops and PC's. I am reasonable enough not to expect the same performance from a $200 pocket rocket.Kevin A. Purcell said:I have extremely demanding expectations in terms of speed.
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Paul C said:
But I only planned to install Logos and OneNote on the tablet.
Don't want to hijack the thread, but it seems to be winding down a bit... How do you like OneNote? I'm hearing more and more people switching from Evernote. There are several annoying elements to Evernote, and I'm sort of looking around at options.
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Hi, Al;
I really enjoy OneNote. I have it on all my machines. Never a hiccup. Until Logos works the kinks out of their note system, we have little choice. We must rely on an outside source. Having notes stored in the cloud is invaluable. They are available no matter what device i'm on. Bottom Line:
I highly recommend OneNote. I can't help you compare it to Evernote. I've never used it. You might consider starting a new thread inquiring about other folk's experience and comparisons.
May God Bless Your Study
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Good post Paul. [Y]
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Paul C said:
Hi, Al;
I really enjoy OneNote. I have it on all my machines. Never a hiccup. Until Logos works the kinks out of their note system, we have little choice. We must rely on an outside source. Having notes stored in the cloud is invaluable. They are available no matter what device i'm on. Bottom Line:
I highly recommend OneNote. I can't help you compare it to Evernote. I've never used it. You might consider starting a new thread inquiring about other folk's experience and comparisons.
May God Bless Your Study
I agree with Paul that OneNote is amazing on a good Windows tablet. I use a Surface Pro 2, and I love to take notes by hand, and "presto" OneNote transforms my chicken scratching into text. (Just a little correction sometimes needed, but not much. I believe OneNote reads my handwriting when even I cannot!". You can also record (or video) a lecture as you take notes in OneNote. When you read your notes, OneNote will replay what the speaker said when you wrote that particular note. Now that is smart!
By the way, I think Surface Pro 2 (or Surface Pro 3) is a bargain right now. Prices have been cut awaiting the soon release of Surface Pro 4, and tons of people are selling theirs to buy the new version. There are some great prices, and they both run Logos flawlessly.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
I would be happy to take a Surface Pro 3 I5 in near new condition from a trustworthy Christian source. (Lord hear my prayer)
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I am intrigued by this:
Kevin A. Purcell said:You'd be better off using Logos Now and the web app included if you can get online with your tablet.
I'm interested in using Logos on a tablet but have not pursued it yet because (1) I need a Windows Tablets for some other other programs, and there is no Logos Windows app and (2) something like a Surface Pro that can comfortably run the desktop program is out of my budget.
So, would this be a viable option with a cheaper tablet? I've not yet subscribed to Logos Now but this could be enough to compel me. How is the web app working out? I haven't seen a preview yet. (My demands aren't much but I would want something a little more advanced than Biblia is at present.)
Also, how do Windows tablets generally work? I believe they've dumped Windows RT, so I take it they all run some version of 8.1 (soon to be 10)? Can you install normal Windows programs without much hassle? The ones I need are far less demanding than full Logos 6, so if I can get those up & running alongside something like the Logos web app, I'd be good to go.
Thanks for indulging my questions and partial threadjack.
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Opinions differ greatly. I think you will find the posters with negative views have never test driven Logos on a tablet, or have done so on a sub par unit. One such fella tried it on a tablet with only one Gig of ram. That can't possibly work, as it takes the best part of a Gig to keep the lights on in Windows 8 and 10. Another limiting factor is the size of the drive. 64 GB is a bare minimum. Some have tried installing Logos on external drives with disappointing results.It would depend greatly on what you expect from the little machine. Windows 8 (Now 10) tablets will load virtually any software the larger windows based units can. But with an average of 2 Gig ram and 64 Gig main drive, I wouldn't get one expecting to run a plethora of programs. As stated above, My main use for the tablet is Logos (Which requires OneNote be running simultaneously.) and occasional web browsing. It handles those tasks admirably. I'm sure one could overload the little guy by expecting too much of it.
Yes they make the transition to Windows 10 just fine. I've had 10 on my Venue 8 Pro for a couple weeks or more. No issues at all. In fact the touch/pen features are improved on 10.
Bottom line: If you have reasonable expectations, 8 inch Windows based tablets are a priceless addition to one's stable.
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While I am a fairly dyed in the wool Apple user, I appreciate your comments Paul. One of the things I hate about the iPad and would equally hate with app.logos is the dependence on an active internet connection. While I cannot speak for Josh a big reason for him seeking a windows tablet may be his wish to free himself from the need to have an active connection to do things. One of the reasons I use Accordance and Olivetree on my iPad is their ability to perform more powerful functions without the need for an internet connection. These apps both perform things Logos claims is not possible with the limited power of a mobile device. I am not trying to bad mouth Logos mobile apps, just saying it is odd that Logos mobile could not have some sort of a limited passage guide that would work offline with the downloaded items. I suppose Logos seems to be moving the opposite direction there though... tight integration with the web is way Logos seems to be heading.
-Dan
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Thanks Dan...you are so right. I do wish I could use a version of Logos on a budget Windows device...but alas...its not to be I guess...not right now.
Paul's suggestions seem tempting...but I think if I wait something better and more powerful that runs Logos well may be on the horizon.0 -
Dan Francis said:
While I cannot speak for Josh a big reason for him seeking a windows tablet may be his wish to free himself from the need to have an active connection to do things.
I would assume you are right, I know for a fact that is why I sought out a Windows tablet. I appreciate your common sense comments. I will stay with this platform as long as it is available. But it's good to know that other companies have off line functionality. I have not experimented with Accordance or Olive tree, but it's always good to have a plan B.
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You are undoubtedly right about this. ... BUT ... I seriously doubt it will be an inexpensive, budget Windows device. Power costs money. Squeezing power into a small package costs even more money.JoshInRI said:but I think if I wait something better and more powerful that runs Logos well may be on the horizon.
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Paul C said:
I have a Lenovo x220 tablet (convertible) It has i7, 8 GB ram, 128 GB SSD, and so on. (Very snappy indeed) But I leave it at home and take the Dell to Bible study. The portability is worth more than any performance boost provided by the bulkier Lenovo. I don't want to do in depth, extensive study/research on an 8 inch tablet. However, in the right environment, I see it as the cat's meow.
I have a Lenovo X60 Tablet with Win 8.1 Pro, 3GB RAM and a 320 GBHDD. Logos does make it run pretty hot and the fan is doing hard labour Otherwise responsiveness is pretty good. Our bible study is around a table so the X60's size doesn't bother me. What is annoying is I can't write directly into my study notes as Logos won't accept text from the handwriting input panel. It well accept text elsewhere though. AFAIK I'm the only one who has posted about this. Can this problem be replicated on your Dell?
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Yes. I think it is a problem no matter what machine you use. I have given up trying to use Logos note function. I now use OneNote. I choose to keep it open and switch between it and Logos. An extra step, But still a much more usable and less frustrating way to take notes.Genghis said:Can this problem be replicated on your Dell?
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I use OneNote as well for all my note taking. Check out the Logos "Copy location as URL" (keyboard shortcut Ctl+Alt+c) feature to paste a link into OneNote for the resource you have open. When you click the link, Logos will start if it's not already open and navigate you to the exact resource location. Very slick time saver for me.
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Wade Wickman said:
I use OneNote as well for all my note taking. Check out the Logos "Copy location as URL" (keyboard shortcut Ctl+Alt+c) feature to paste a link into OneNote for the resource you have open. When you click the link, Logos will start if it's not already open and navigate you to the exact resource location. Very slick time saver for me.
Thanks Wade. That is helpful.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Paul C said:
I use a Dell venue 8 pro. It performs flawlessly. The 64G version can be found for under $200. I consider that cheap. How 'bout you?
Can you please provide a link to this? If I could get a windows tablet that runs the full Logos software flawlessly for under $200 I'd seriously consider it! Thanks in advance!
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I have Logos 6 running on a Surface Pro (the original). I have a huge library so I purchased a 128G flash drive (thumb drive) and it works great. It is a little slow but not too bad.
I picked the surface pro up on ebay for about 200 and added a few other things. All in all was about 300 total. So it is possible.
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Tim Taylor said:
Can you please provide a link to this?
As stated, I got mine on the Dell Outlet site (refurb) They are $219 right now but they occasionally offer them for under $200. That includes a year warranty.
eBay has many offerings from used through new. Here is one example.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181809929075?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Again...It is imperative to get the 64 GB version. 32 simply won't do.
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Thanks, Paul. That's really helpful. One last thing... can you please post a screenshot of Logos 6 running on your Dell Venue 8 Pro? I'd like to see what it looks like and how that small of a screen handles it. Also, have you tried plugging it into an external monitor at all? I have a USB adapter for an external monitor I could try it with.
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I have not tried to connect a monitor to it, but another forum user said he had great results. Be aware that you can not charge the tablet while using the usb port for anything else.
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Paul C said:
I have not tried to connect a monitor to it, but another forum user said he had great results. Be aware that you can not charge the tablet while using the usb port for anything else.
Thanks, that really helps! I'm pretty stoked, I grabbed one off eBay for $107 late last night! I hope it works well!
Thanks for your positive reviews.0 -
Paul C said:
Be aware that you can not charge the tablet while using the usb port for anything else.
Paul, have you seen this? Would this work with the Dell Venue 8 Pro, do you know? Perhaps this could let you use the USB while charging?
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&sku=470-abes
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I had not seen the dongle. The description seems to indicate that it would solve the issue. I, personally, don't have a need to use it as a desktop. But it's cool to know the option exists. I bought it for a specific purpose. .....A pocket rocket. It excels at that.
One last thing. ... You may (most certainly will) experience issues with highlighting and mouseovers. ... Touchscreen issues that FL has not seen fit to address. You can solve this in one of 2 ways. Use a bluetooth mouse, or download touchmousepointer. (free) It allows you to use the whole screen as a touchpad.
Enjoy
EDIT: ( The last, last thing) Windows 10 works flawlessly on the Venue. In fact it improves the touch experience. I strongly encourage you to get the upgrade when it becomes available.
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Ok, thanks again for the input, Paul. I will definitely keep that in mind. Do you have a stylus with yours? Do you recommend it? Does/would that help with the highlighting and mouseover issues?
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I chose not to spend $30 on the stylus. I really don't see it solving the issues I cited. I still have faith that FL will address those issues as the touch crowd (market) increases. If you want to play with handwritten notes, get a generic (99 cent) stylus off eBay. They work ok with the handwriting input panel.
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So I got my Dell Venue 8 Pro, loaded windows 10 on it, and Logos 6 on it, and wow! I love it! The experience is AMAZING! I wanted to let you know that I also went ahead and bought a Dell stylus off of eBay for $10 and I'm really glad I did! It seems to solve the highlighting issues. [:)] Thanks so much for the recommendation, btw. I'm very pleased so far!
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Great! I'm very happy you are pleased.
It certainly is one of my favorite toys.
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Are they planning an update to this device soon? Would dislike buying what looks like a deal only to discover a newer model soon after with better functionality and a low price.
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JoshInRI said:
Are they planning an update to this device soon? Would dislike buying what looks like a deal only to discover a newer model soon after with better functionality and a low price.
Now, Josh;
That is a rhetorical question. You have a surface pro, which was replaced by a surface pro 2...then 3...and soon to be 4. That is just a sign of the times. If you wait for a machine that is future proof, You will be a very old man.
Tim bought his venue for $107. If/ when they upgrade the venue, It will undoubtedly cost 4 or 5 times that much. ..... Similar to the evolution of the surface.
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Paul C said:
I chose not to spend $30 on the stylus. I really don't see it solving the issues I cited. I still have faith that FL will address those issues as the touch crowd (market) increases. If you want to play with handwritten notes, get a generic (99 cent) stylus off eBay. They work ok with the handwriting input panel.
Paul (and others), after having my tablet for a while now and pretty much exclusively using it for Logos, I finally found a decent way to highlight without a stylus, mouse, or external keyboard using Windows 10:
- Set keyboard shortcuts for your favorite highlights (if you haven't already)
- Switch to reading mode. This switches to a full screen, paging interface instead of the usual scrolling interface, and using your finger now will select text instead of scroll)
- With your finger, select the text you want to highlight.
- Swipe in from the left edge of the screen to pull up the app switcher. This is so you can now have access to the keyboard icon in the taskbar.
- Tap on the keyboard icon to open the on-screen keyboard
- Select Logos from the app switcher
- Use the keyboard to apply your favorite highlight style(s) with the keyboard shortcuts you have created.
I know it might sound complicated, but once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. Ideal? Admittedly, no. But until Logos implements better touch support on Windows 10, it is a pretty slick workaround. I hope it helps. And really, steps 1 and 2 only have to be done once, then steps 3-7 are all that need to be repeated, and they really are pretty quick and simple.
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Tim Taylor said:Paul C said:
I chose not to spend $30 on the stylus. I really don't see it solving the issues I cited. I still have faith that FL will address those issues as the touch crowd (market) increases. If you want to play with handwritten notes, get a generic (99 cent) stylus off eBay. They work ok with the handwriting input panel.
Paul (and others), after having my tablet for a while now and pretty much exclusively using it for Logos, I finally found a decent way to highlight without a stylus, mouse, or external keyboard using Windows 10:
- Set keyboard shortcuts for your favorite highlights (if you haven't already)
- Switch to reading mode. This switches to a full screen, paging interface instead of the usual scrolling interface, and using your finger now will select text instead of scroll)
- With your finger, select the text you want to highlight.
- Swipe in from the left edge of the screen to pull up the app switcher. This is so you can now have access to the keyboard icon in the taskbar.
- Tap on the keyboard icon to open the on-screen keyboard
- Select Logos from the app switcher
- Use the keyboard to apply your favorite highlight style(s) with the keyboard shortcuts you have created.
I know it might sound complicated, but once you get used to it, it's really not that bad. Ideal? Admittedly, no. But until Logos implements better touch support on Windows 10, it is a pretty slick workaround. I hope it helps. And really, steps 1 and 2 only have to be done once, then steps 3-7 are all that need to be repeated, and they really are pretty quick and simple.
Thanks for the update, and suggestions. If a full featured right click menu was integrated into the reading view it would solve even more issues. ... Like the ability to search directly using a highlighted phrase ...instead of having to copy and paste and then add quotes. I still have faith they will address the touch issues ....eventually.
May God continue to bless your studies.
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Paul C said:
Thanks for the update, and suggestions. If a full featured right click menu was integrated into the reading view it would solve even more issues. ... Like the ability to search directly using a highlighted phrase ...instead of having to copy and paste and then add quotes. I still have faith they will address the touch issues ....eventually.
May God continue to bless your studies.
Paul, I am able to use the full featured right click menu in reading view. This allows me to search directly using a highlighted phrase, etc. Just select the text, and then tap and hold (long press) on the selected text. Here's a screenshot.
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You are correct. Don't know how I missed it. This does make things simpler on the tablet. Wouldn't it be sweet if it worked in any window?
Thanks again [:D]
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Paul C said:
Windows 10 works flawlessly on the Venue. In fact it improves the touch experience. I strongly encourage you to get the upgrade when it becomes available.
Paul, (or anyone else...) Based largely on this thread I have just ordered a refurbished 8 Pro 64G for a silly price and it should be with me in as few days. Do you know how much space your Win 10 took over your Win 8? Just the increase in total space due to the installation would be a big help. Do you also have any idea how big your Logos folder is for comparison purposes? On my desk top mine is about 31 G. I can see I might have to do a bit of pruning [:(]
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Hi, John;
I don't recall the specific size of the 10 upgrade. I do have a smaller library than you. (<20 GB) However I still have 19 GB free and the recovery partition is still in place. If I were in your position, Having no files or settings to be concerned with... I believe I would do a clean install of W 10. including reformatting the drive. This will give you the maximum drive space to work with, and no leftovers from 8.1. If you have any inclination that you would want/need to revert to 8.1 you could back up the recovery partition before proceeding. If you decide to go this route, You can download the ISO file and create an install disk here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10 Having the disk pre-recorded will drastically reduce the time involved in installing 10. Be sure to get the 32 bit version. I am confident you will enjoy your new toy. Please keep us updated.
Edit I said install disk, but if you don't have an external dvd drive , you can accomplish this with a usb flash drive image, but it may well be a bit slower.
A micro usb to standard usb adapter is invaluable for migrating files to and from the tablet.
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Thanks very much for all the information - especially the link. I will definitely save the recovery partition - very much a believer in "If something can go wrong it will" . I will also remove/save the MS office. I do have an external DVD drive for use with my old Samsung N120 netbook.
Dell have informed me that delivery will be in the next 14 days but I do not really need it to be working fully until the second week in November when I am due to fly to Peru for three weeks so I can afford to take it steadily and learn to be patient rather than start playing a soon as possible! I was planning to take my (comparatively heavy) netbook but if this works it should do nicely if I can squeeze Skype in as well.
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Just thought, if I am do a clean install I will need the Windows product key. Do you know where to find that on the Dell?
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All refurbished units do not include office. If yours does, there will be a disk and product key in the box. Mine came with Office loaded but not activated. I guess the disk is for back up. If it is not found in the box, I don't think Dell keeps a record of the windows keys. W 10 includes a somewhat streamlined version of OneNote. If I didn't already have office home and student loaded. I would just make do with that. I rarely use anything but OneNote on the tablet. The drivers provided by W 10 should be sufficient. But Dell has drivers available for download should you have a problem.
Edit: I assumed you meant the key for Office. You do not need a key for the OS. It will be stored in the bios and 10 will not require activation.
A reloaded Office suite will.
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JohnB said:
I was planning to take my (comparatively heavy) netbook but if this works it should do nicely if I can squeeze Skype in as well.
If You are patient enough to use Logos on a netbook with the early Atom processor, You will be ecstatic with the Venue. It literally runs rings around my netbook. Just as an aside. I managed to force W10 to install on the netbook (which originally came with XP) It handles the new OS just fine. It may be slightly snappier, but again the venue is far superior.
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Paul C said:
If You are patient enough to use Logos on a netbook with the early Atom processor, You will be ecstatic with the Venue. It literally runs rings around my netbook. Just as an aside. I managed to force W10 to install on the netbook (which originally came with XP) It handles the new OS just fine. It may be slightly snappier, but again the venue is far superior.
I see that we have been traveling a similar path but me currently trailing you. [:D] It was the Win8 not Office that I was thinking of. I created my win 10 DVD today using my notebook to be able to download the 32 bit version. Come on Dell, don't keep me waiting too long!! Thanks again for your encouragement.
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