TDOT NOW ON PRE-PUB!!
It finally made it to the pre-pub stage!
https://www.logos.com/product/49541/theological-dictionary-of-the-old-testament
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Good News!0
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Excuse me while I grab my bib...my mouth is watering something fierce! [:P]
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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I agree. This is very good news, however, the cost seems to be way up there. Did I miss a CP bid somewhere along the line?
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CP is almost exclusively reserved for public domain titles where the publisher/author doesn't need a particular slice, and doesn't worry about cannibalising print sales.
Whilst I was hoping for cheaper, $400 represents good value for money IMO.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
CP is almost exclusively reserved for public domain titles where the publisher/author doesn't need a particular slice, and doesn't worry about cannibalising print sales.
Whilst I was hoping for cheaper, $400 represents good value for money IMO.
What is your reasoning, Mark? I am trying to understand the pricing. Both TDOT and TDNT are 9,000 pages, yet TDNT OUT OF pre pub is $200, and TDOT IN pre pub Is $400. Is TDNT on some sort of special lower than pre pub sale right now?
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I have been waiting for this, and while this is extremely very good news, the price is much too high. But I am so very happy it has finally made its way to Logos.
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There have been so many folks standing around an empty trough for so long, I'm surprised it isn't going for $100-200 more. In the world of Biblical Studies, this publishing event is party to what is pretty close to the textbook definition of a "captive audience".
I will say this though...as soon as this thing dl's, I'm gonna take her for a spin around the block and if she doesn't blow my sock off, I may just return her to the dealership. Unending longing has a tendency to inflate one's expectations...and mine are now blimp-sized.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Hot dang! Who wants a firstborn or right arm? [6]
I suspect TDOT has a smaller audience than TDNT. That may account for its price. Also, I believe the series is generally newer as well, which may also be a factor.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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Don Awalt said:
I am trying to understand the pricing. Both TDOT and TDNT are 9,000 pages, yet TDNT OUT OF pre pub is $200, and TDOT IN pre pub Is $400. Is TDNT on some sort of special lower than pre pub sale right now?
TDNT is a few decennia older than TDOT. The first volume of TDNT was published by Kittel in 1933.
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I'm in for now. I think a few cattle from the hills isn't too much to do by faith.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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I've pre-ordered it but an FYI for Logos - whether I get it will depend on the Canadian dollar. At the current exchange rate that's about $500. If Americans think it's expensive don't forget about the rest of us!
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I love the news, but seems a bit pricey for my budget at the moment :-(
DAL
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Mark Barnes said:
CP is almost exclusively reserved for public domain titles where the publisher/author doesn't need a particular slice, and doesn't worry about cannibalising print sales.
Whilst I was hoping for cheaper, $400 represents good value for money IMO.
That accounts for the No-CP, and I didn't miss out. [:)]
I've done a little research and found as you did, that $400 is pretty good considering that the print is averaging about $50 (USD) per volume. Out of my price range for now. It goes on the wish list.
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Here's a screen shot showing the top resources in my library for this resource. I have 10,659 hits in 5,277 articles in 905 resources:
If for our $400 FL would tell us they'd go back and tag the top 200 resources with hits to TDOT it might entice me (of course I'd like even more, but that might be expecting too much). I'd like to hear their plans.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Here's the BIG PROBLEM. Would Logos re-tag all these resources for $400? Otherwise they may need to lower the price. We need QUALITY, not just a dictionary.
Someone from Logos need to address this issue.
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Thanks for this Mark. As for tagging, based upon past performance, I have faith that these will [quickly or eventually] be worked in so as to allow us to fully realize the benefits of the purchase price.
BTW - TDNT is only 10 volumes while the TDOT is 15.
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Ron Corbett said:
Thanks for this Mark. As for tagging, based upon past performance, I have faith that these will [quickly or eventually] be worked in so as to allow us to fully realize the benefits of the purchase price.
Ron, I have not seen Logos be quick to retag anything. You can find a thread of mine were new resources don't even have all of the tagging they should. Half the value of owning a work like this will be the tags that refer to it.
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Lexicons in particular should be tagged!
Also, this would be a great time to throw in the CAD.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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As has been noted already, $400 is a really great deal. You'd have a hard time getting the set in print for much less than $750. That's not even considering all the added value you'll get by having this in Logos.
The suggestion to update inbound links is a good one. We'll look into it.
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Is there any news on the final two volumes of the series
Shalom
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
The suggestion to update inbound links is a good one. We'll look into it.
Yea! Please look into it, but don't stop there! 😜
I'll probably place a pre-order, but cancel if this doesn't get incorporated...
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Great news!! I know Logos has been working hard to get this. I expected to pay double the price. Hope it moves fast!
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
The suggestion to update inbound links is a good one. We'll look into it.
It ought to be relatively easy to build a script for doing at least some of this. There's a lot of uniformity in the way TDOT is referenced.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Smith said:
I have 10,659 hits in 5,277 articles in 905 resources:
Those statistics are somewhat inflated by the fact that hovering over TDOT will often cause the text "Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament" to appear. In other words, with that search, many occurrences of TDOT count twice (once for TDOT, and once for "Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament"). It may be as much as 50% over-inflated.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
It may be as much as 50% over-inflated.
I never thought of that before but what you say makes sense.
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Mark Barnes said:
It may be as much as 50% over-inflated.
Which cuts down the amount of work FL would have to do to update those references as links.
TDOT by itself comes up with 6,565 hits in 4,894 articles in 737 resources which might be a closer estimation of the full number of references for my library. That is still a lot of resources and a lot of articles with links I'd like to see become active.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I see that the status of the pre-order has quickly moved from red "gathering interest" to orange "almost there". I know FL will not want to commit to any timetable, but in the interest of those who need time to come up with the money for the pre-order, would it be fair to say that it will be a while yet before it comes out? Development begins only after it hits "green" right? So 15 volumes and lots of data to tag, could be a couple years before it actually comes out, I would think (or perhaps even more).
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^^ This is a very important question. I can start importuning the wife and saving my pennies, if I know it's a year away. But a month?
I suppose I can support the prepub and back out if financially necessary, but I really try not to do that to Logos.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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I am also in Canada and again, I really want this, but the price is also a concern. Is there any way to order the pre-pub and pay by instalments rather than in a single payment?
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I got 10,218 results is 6,971 articles in 1,256 resources.
I can't wait for this to come out, and stop using my dead tree versions.
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I'd suspect Logos would not offer a ship date.
Just guessing, I'd bet it's already digitized from the publisher. I'd also bet, Logos already has scripts to handle the bulk of tagging on the later volumes. But I'd also bet, the whole thing would slow down on the earlier volumes, and fancy tagging (recent features).
Therefore, since prepubs are not usually financed unless super-expensive, 'save up' sounds like a good strategy.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Francis said:
I see that the status of the pre-order has quickly moved from red "gathering interest" to orange "almost there". I know FL will not want to commit to any timetable, but in the interest of those who need time to come up with the money for the pre-order, would it be fair to say that it will be a while yet before it comes out? Development begins only after it hits "green" right? So 15 volumes and lots of data to tag, could be a couple years before it actually comes out, I would think (or perhaps even more).
God willing. It won't be years. At this point it's too early to commit to any ship date. If I had to venture a guess, it would be within a year. Perhaps nine months. And please don't hold me to that. It's too early to tell right now. I'm just trying to provide so clues to those considering making a purchase.
Second,
My plan is to do targeted updates of resources that heavily cite TDOT. At this point it is much too early to say A) what resources those will be and
when the update work will be done.0 -
Thanks Kyle for the response.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
My plan is to do targeted updates of resources that heavily cite TDOT.
Thanks for telling us this. It helps. I put in a pre-order and hope it will not come out until next year.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I'm in, and will start saving my quarters.
"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton
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for me, release them as they are available, just like the theological journal!
my pennies are ready! [<:o)]
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
God willing. It won't be years ...
Second, My plan is to do targeted updates of resources that heavily cite TDOT. ...
Thanks, Kyle. Okay, I'm in too.
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Can I make a suggestion to someone in Marketing?
We will be outlaying $$$$$$ to buy this set. To get a better idea of what the set has to offer would it be possible to give a sample pdf file of one article (eg naqam) rather than the fuzzy on screen pix?
I could then see exactly how the product will look on my screen and how it will print out etc.
Stephen Miller
Sydney, Australia
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I wonder, would it be better to jump in on this now at presumably its lowest price in Pre-Pub, or wait until it appears at better value as part of a bundle or base package later on which might be better value overall in the long run? I suspect, however, that it might not appear in any bundle or base package for a few years, after lots of individual sales.
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John Duffy said:
I suspect, however, that it might not appear in any bundle or base package for a few years, after lots of individual sales.
I believe your suspicions to be what will happen. While TDNT was pre-pubed and produced ages ago, and does appear in base packages, the trend now seems to be for these higher end resources to be individual purchase only. If you feel you would use it, probably the price now is the best we'll see for some time. If it's not something you really care all that much about, wait. The price will go up after pre-pub, but you might score a deal in a few years. I've decided to jump in with the hope is won't be out until next year.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Kevin A Lewis said:
Is there any news on the final two volumes of the series
Shalom
I'm assuming you are referring to Vol 16 and 17?? Hopefully they will be included in the set when published.. Taken from the google preview inside.
http://www.eerdmans.com/Products/2339/theological-dictionary-of-the-old-testament-volume-xv.aspx
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thanks for that - basically no one knows!
Shalom
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Mark Smith said:
you might score a deal in a few years
I'm afraid that this kind of thing is bound to happen from time to time and not completely predictable. One has to make purchase decisions based on what is available currently, one's needs, timing imperatives and weighing the pros and cons of each scenarios. If someone could wait a few years to get the TDOT although it would be nice and useful to have it earlier, one has to weigh this:
- What if I get it now and it is available as part of a base package later or at a better price later? The answer, it seems to me, is that a new base package that includes the TDOT would not be free to upgrade to. If it is included in a base package, it could be one that is out of your reach (say you can only afford gold, but TDOT only comes in Diamond). The TDOT may come out as a Christmas deal in a few years and let's say you saved $100 as compared to the current price (it will never go out for peanuts), is it worth paying the extra for all the time you will be able to use it until this (hypothetical) deal comes along?
- What if I don't get it now and it never again comes available at such a good price? You can compare the pre-pub price with the estimated live price and decide whether you'd be prepared to pay the full price instead in order to have it. The question is also how long you think you would be willing to wait until you decide that there is no point in continuing to wait, and whether you want and can do without it for that long.
Personally, considering that (a) I wished I had been able to use it in Logos for several years already and (b) I know it will be an important resource for me to use when I have it, # 2 is the worse scenario of the two. Your situation may be different from mine though.
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Francis said:
Personally, considering that (a) I wished I had been able to use it in Logos for several years already and (b) I know it will be an important resource for me to use when I have it, # 2 is the worse scenario of the two. Your situation may be different from mine though.
Hi Francis, I agree completely with you. However, the other thing which needs to be taken into account, for some more than for others, is affordability. If we can't afford it now, then #2 is the only practical option from a cashflow perspective, even if the least preferable option from a study or long-term value perspective.
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Looks like it is coming quite a bit sooner than many anticipated. I am likely going to have to cancel my pre-pub and hopefully pick it up down the road at some point.
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I'd like to get it, and I'm sure it's a great price, but I just can't do this a month before Christmas.
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Ron said:
I am likely going to have to cancel my pre-pub and hopefully pick it up down the road at some point.
Me too, if I want to stay married... [;)]
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Ronald Quick said:
I'd like to get it, and I'm sure it's a great price, but I just can't do this a month before Christmas.
I wish I could get it too, but I did a couple of upgrades and Black Friday and Xmas are just around the corner. Hopefully the set will be included in a future base package
DAL
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Looks like another pass by offer- glad I have it in dead tree.
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Ron said:
Looks like it is coming quite a bit sooner than many anticipated
A prime example of when an expensive resource like this pops up and catches us all by surprise. How could this possibly have beaten the Dictionary of Classical Hebrew which has been in production long before this one and is many volumes shorter?
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