Protestant dilemma points to Catholicism

Please review forum posting guidelines here.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737157#Comment_737157

Do you mean the RULE """"Please search before posting. It’s likely that someone has already asked your question."""

Please note that my two ALMOST THE SAME posts were not IDENTICAL. They are aimed at two different audiences and so worded.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737157#Comment_737157

Or do you mean the RULE """"Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc."""

My intent was to get people [Logos customers] to buy and read that Logos resource and answer the questions to themselves [not to me and not publicly on Logos unless they take it to Christian Discourse http://christiandiscourse.com/ ] [[always add a space after a link to make it active]]

[[ or maybe this one ""Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions."" ]]

Any one that wishes to discuss or debate this and not just buy the resource please go to Christian Discourse http://christiandiscourse.com/

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737163#Comment_737163

These guidelines:

[quote]

Please abide by the following guidelines as you interact on our forums.

Please keep your discussions focused on Logos Bible Software: our software, products, websites, company, tools, etc.
Please do not discuss or debate biblical, theological, or other controversial topics. Use one of the many web forums intended for these kinds of discussions.
Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together,

While possibly within the letter of the law for #1, your promotion violates the spirit of #2 and, subjectively, #3 as well.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737165#Comment_737165

Any one that wishes to discuss or debate this and not just buy the resource please go to Christian Discourse http://christiandiscourse.com/

Yes. That's where your shilling for Rome belonged in the first place.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737166#Comment_737166

While possibly within the letter of the law for #1, your promotion violates the spirit of #2 and, subjectively, #3 as well.

So how should I have worded it to get Logos Customers to buy, read and ponder the book??

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737165#Comment_737165

I don't think that there is anything wrong with your post David although the title and the post itself are written in a provocative way. Perhaps that was your intent. Personally I prefer a more gentle and sensitive approach although now this is a book that I would like to read.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737167#Comment_737167

Yes. That's where your shilling for Rome belonged in the first place.

David [with his Protestant hat on] has found six possible errors in the first chapter.

Unfortunately forum rules prohibit my listing them.

[[and I need to review my own analysis of the book to ensure that it is correct]]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737167#Comment_737167

That's where your shilling for Rome belonged in the first place.

Interesting how someone rebuking another for violating forum guidelines would violate same guidelines themselves. Such personal attacks as this also fall outside forum guidelines. Those who live in glass houses… comes to mind here.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737169#Comment_737169

I don't think that there is anything wrong with your post David although the title and the post itself are written in a provocative way. Perhaps that was your intent. Personally I prefer a more gentle and sensitive approach although now this is a book that I would like to read.

Provocative? It got you to consider it! Reading it is making me think - deeply!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737173#Comment_737173

David [with his Protestant hat on] has found six possible errors in the first chapter.

Now this is something best suited for christiandiscource.com

Provocative? It got you to consider it! Reading it is making me think - deeply!

Yes, but I'm not sure the ends justifies the means.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737172#Comment_737172

That's where your shilling for Rome belonged in the first place.

Interesting how someone rebuking another for violating forum guidelines would violate same guidelines themselves. Such personal attacks as this also fall outside forum guidelines. Those who live in glass houses… comes to mind here.

Nope. The OP meets the definition for "shill" fairly well.

I open a thread on the Bible software forum and get hit with the words "Here is a discourse on why all of the Protestants are wrong." I don't appreciate that at all. My first response was very gentle; all that got was an edit to go to Christiandiscourse.com but leaving up the insult.

This forum needs better moderation to forestall this stuff to begin with, but since it's not...

Rob

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737176#Comment_737176

That's where your shilling for Rome belonged in the first place.

Interesting how someone rebuking another for violating forum guidelines would violate same guidelines themselves. Such personal attacks as this also fall outside forum guidelines. Those who live in glass houses… comes to mind here.

Nope. The OP meets the definition for "shill" fairly well.

I open a thread on the Bible software forum and get hit with the words "Here is a discourse on why all of the Protestants are wrong." I don't appreciate that at all. My first response was very gentle; all that got was an edit to go to Christiandiscourse.com but leaving up the insult.

This forum needs better moderation to forestall this stuff to begin with, but since it's not...

Good grief!

Kevin Olson

Protestant’s dilemma or how the reformation’s shocking consequences point to the truth of Catholicism by Devin Rose

My guess is, if I started a thread on Hislop's "The Two Babylons: the Papal Worship proved to be the worship of Nimrod", and then said something like, "Kevin with his Catholic hat on....Here is a discourse on why all Catholics are idolaters...it would be rightly flagged as violating the rules.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737196#Comment_737196

Protestant’s dilemma or how the reformation’s shocking consequences point to the truth of Catholicism by Devin Rose

My guess is, if I started a thread on Hislop's "The Two Babylons: the Papal Worship proved to be the worship of Nimrod", and then said something like, "Kevin with his Catholic hat on....Here is a discourse on why all Catholics are idolaters...it would be rightly flagged as violating the rules.

I think the two books should be advertised in tandem. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737196#Comment_737196

Ah, yes. Another Logosian weekend has arrived.

There's several key questions, to determine if a Logosian needs to be properly shunned (sent to ChristianDiscourse):

1. Is the comment about a religious group outside the Logosian borders? Mormon? JW? No, problem. I've noticed even negatives on SDA have not got the shunning, but they're probably on the Logosian edge.

2. Does the potentially offending Logosian have good Logosian credentials? Is so, give it a pass. George, DP, Matthew, etc.

3. Does the potential offender throw in a lot of 'resource'y' questions? Example: ' I'm searching for a book that proves protestants are completely not so smart. Would this great book on Catholic geniuses be good?'

4. And finally, is the potential Logosian offender deserving of the too quick thought 'Oh great, not again?'

I think this may be why David is taking on some flak.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737212#Comment_737212

I think this may be why David is taking on some flak.

Oh. And I thought David Ames was just playing Devil's Advocate. [6]

Antonius

This post should have been made in the Catholic Products forum.

Peace be with you...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737226#Comment_737226

This post should have been made in the Catholic Products forum.

Peace be with you...

David initially posted to both forums - https://community.logos.com/forums/t/106529.aspx

JAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737189#Comment_737189

Good grief!

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Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737237#Comment_737237

Edit: Sorry ... no stirring the pot....[:#]

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737246#Comment_737246

As one with the following credentials:

I was active in the forums when vicious and slanderous things were said about a number of groups, especially Catholics.
I try hard to be an even-handed defender of any group being maligned - including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and SDA
I was raised conservative Protestant and have been Catholic for almost 50 years
I am not fond of what I refer to as "professional converts" of any ilk although they range from excellent to trash like all groups of authors
I am quite willing to put my foot in my mouth and often do by accident

I would say that if the posts violated the guidelines, it violated the one I hold most dear: "Please treat each other with the love, courtesy, respect, and kindness that you would if you were sitting in your living room together." As this book is already available in Logos/Verbum, this is not a Suggestion for Faithlife but a suggestion for the readers of the forums. In my living room, I would make this suggestion in only in the context of a discussion of Catholicism, conversion to Catholicism, conversion in general, books by converts, a specific request for suggestions .... In my living room, I would not blurt out to a group that I knew only casually "Hey guys, attention please, I just read this great new book ..."

So, no, it doesn't pass my personal test of "would this make someone new feel uncomfortable coming to the forums for software advice". Sorry, David.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737250#Comment_737250

In my living room, I would not blurt out to a group that I knew only casually "Hey guys, attention please, I just read this great new book ..."

So, no, it doesn't pass my personal test of "would this make someone new feel uncomfortable coming to the forums for software advice". Sorry, David.

Ok, next book that I think everyone should read i will keep it to myself.

At one time there were postings on books that were in Logos that we might have missed - Bought too many of them.

Dear Sean, Sorry for stepping on your "toes" - Dave

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737268#Comment_737268

Ok, next book that I think everyone should read i will keep it to myself.

At one time there were postings on books that were in Logos that we might have missed - Bought too many of them.

Still can with a judicial choice of books - judicial often discovered by trial and error.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737268#Comment_737268

Ok, next book that I think everyone should read i will keep it to myself.

Personally I want to hear recommendations from people including you Dave. I think the strategy we all need to take is to make our recommendations sensitively when there is potential of controversy.

Robert M. Warren

Background information on the author:

Devin Rose, (incidentally, not to be confused with our friend on the Forum with a similar name), is the guy who scheduled an appearance on a debate-type program on Moody Radio, only to threaten to renege when he discovered his opponent would be James R. White. Moody substituted a different opponent for him.

Perhaps he rightly discerned that such an encounter would have shocking consequences.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737276#Comment_737276

Yup, subtlety is needed when recommending potentially controversial books. Basically just "I found this a good read" rather than effectively, "You should read this to find out why most of you are all wrong." You could even say something like, "Possibly challenging, but it's always good to re-examine our assumptions." It's all in the tone, brother.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737282#Comment_737282

"I try hard to be an even-handed defender of any group being maligned - including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and SDA"

And we heretical Christians appreciate it [:D]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737268#Comment_737268

Ok, next book that I think everyone should read i will keep it to myself.

At one time there were postings on books that were in Logos that we might have missed - Bought too many of them.

If I've understood what you've posted thus far, David, you haven't finished the book yet. I don't own it and I'm interested in knowing whether I might find it worth reading. When you have finished the book, I would appreciate a decent review of it, if you don't mind. That would certainly be fully within the letter and spirit of the forums. Books both in the Faithlife library and not yet in it are constantly being reviewed, usually (too) briefly, on the forums, as I'm sure you know. I would advise starting a new thread for such a review, though, all things considered, and the Catholic Products forum would be a reasonable place to put it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737289#Comment_737289

I would advise starting a new thread for such a review, though, all things considered, and the Catholic Products forum would be a reasonable place to put it.

There is also space to post reviews on the product description pages themselves, which might be a better alternative and would better reach anyone who is browsing around at it and wondering whether it's any good. Anyone who has seen these two threads can follow the link to the resource to see your review if you post back here that it's online.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737283#Comment_737283

"I try hard to be an even-handed defender of any group being maligned - including Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and SDA"

And we heretical Christians appreciate it

In the process I've learned who the Bereans are ... which given I have a Dawn Association hymnal added several useful pieces of information to my memory. And I learned that not all Mormon "splinter" groups are bigamist autocracies which is all the news shows. And that when it comes to studying Scripture, although I may not agree with the presumptions with which people approach Scripture, I can still learn some techniques and some interesting tidbits and questions from anyone. And I've learned that Ellen G. White was a prolific writer ...which strikes her from my "read everything by" list. Now if I can just get a handle of those Baptists. [;)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737292#Comment_737292

Now if I can just get a handle of those Baptists.

Which ones? There are at least 31 flavors.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737295#Comment_737295

Now if I can just get a handle of those Baptists.

Which ones? There are at least 31 flavors.

I thought there were 31 flavors of Northern Free-will Baptists (I've got one of their hymnals too). [:D]

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737291#Comment_737291

I would advise starting a new thread for such a review, though, all things considered, and the Catholic Products forum would be a reasonable place to put it.

There is also space to post reviews on the product description pages themselves, which might be a better alternative and would better reach anyone who is browsing around at it and wondering whether it's any good. Anyone who has seen these two threads can follow the link to the resource to see your review if you post back here that it's online.

Posting it there and then linking to it on the forums would also make sense, yes.

James Hiddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737295#Comment_737295

Now if I can just get a handle of those Baptists.

Which ones? There are at least 31 flavors.

So it's Bapskin Robbins [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737426#Comment_737426

Now if I can just get a handle of those Baptists.

Which ones? There are at least 31 flavors.

So it's Bapskin Robbins

Yay, somebody got the reference. [:)]

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737483#Comment_737483

Now if I can just get a handle of those Baptists.

Which ones? There are at least 31 flavors.

So it's Bapskin Robbins

Yay, somebody got the reference.

Well I got it just trying to stay out off it... I love the catholic church (not enough to want to join it) but what i read of that book turned me off and seemed not a book I would want to give someone to give someone unless they were very unaware of their faith tradition, I personally would not recommend it based on the sample I got from Kindle. I can understand why some catholic people might see it as a a great testimony of faith but as for a polemic to join the RC it failed on me and some of it's arguing was very week to almost insulting in my mind. perhaps I am just a tougher critic but what i read did not make me want to go out and buy it.

-Dan

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737282#Comment_737282

it's always good to re-examine our assumptions

This is what I often do. This also the reason why I keep friends in Facebook who think totally differently (although I don't understand why they keep me as their friend)

Another issue, related: Martin Luther himself was a member of the Catholic church whole his life. This is something for us Lutherans to consider [:)]

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/737522#Comment_737522

Another issue, related: Martin Luther himself was a member of the Catholic church whole his life. This is something for us Lutherans to consider

Luther also had no desire to leave the Church but was excommunicated, I personally wish for a greater Christian unity and realize as a Anglican who was raised Lutheran I have vastly more in common with the Catholic church than with many protestant churches. I have even know several people who became Catholic as well as having numerous Catholic in laws. I have no issues with someone finding their way to a closer walk with Jesus in the RCC, than in the church they are in now. I also know of many people raised in the RCC who went on to other churches to find a closer walk with Jesus. I am not trying to agree or disagree with the merits of conversion to one faith or another. But I would like to remind all that as Christians our goal is to become more Christ like through God's help, I would hope this is seen as a statement of a basic tenant of our faith and not a theological discussion.

-Dan