Is Logos 4 theologically biased?
Comments
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Yes, I think they (Logos) may actually be very theologically biased.
I don't know if you've noticed this or not yet but they seem to be leaning heavily toward Christianity, as a cursory glance at the resources they offer seems to suggest.
But, that's just my opinion.
PS: This is not a serious post!
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Stein Dahl said:
Yes, I think they (Logos) may actually be very theologically biased.
I don't know if you've noticed this or not yet but they seem to be leaning heavily toward Christianity, as a cursory glance at the resources they offer seems to suggest.
But, that's just my opinion.
PS: This is not a serious post!
you mean they are NOT Christian?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Michael Childs said:You make a point. If there is a problem in deversity in Logos resources, then it probably is more the result of the customers than the company. Logos generally tries to produce what the customers are willing to buy. Logos customers tend to be more evangelical. At least it seems so to me.
There is certainly a wide collection of resources from reformed and baptist resources. Many of these have been available for many years - but it has only been in the last couple of years that I have seen Wesleyan resources/collections being offered via pre-pub or in Community Pricing. I am glad to see these items, but they may have come too late to make an impact on the set of resources available via LOGOS. Given that Wesleyan resources (theologies, commentaries, etc.) are not as available, it will alter the kinds of search results I will get. Two things help --
- I am more interested in Bible resources - scripture is scripture, regardless of my theological persuasion.
- Some of the Wesleyan resources are available in other formats (PDF, txt, etc.). This is more true of Wesleyan theologies than Wesleyan commentaries or Study Bibles, but these are available.
The bias will come because of your library. But your library will be defined by what is available.
Blessings,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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MJ. Smith said:
Anyone know a good source for dates of the first translation by continent, country or language? I'd love to have an almanac of such info in Logos - I'll be puzzling over this all day.
This is precisely why you are a great teacher MJ. Your never-ending inquisitiveness piques my curiosity and I frequently learn new things. Don't stop asking.
MJ. Smith said:?? which continents??
Now I will try to give an answer short & sweet:
1) Zondervan has license restrictions controlling where the NIV can be sold so the proper profit can go to the proper pockets. In the past, Logos had to disable your NIV if you lived in Europe.
2) Lockman Foundation argued over who has the profit rights to their recent venture of a new Japanese Bible translatiion. This opened the floodgates of legal challenges to many Japanese Bible texts resulting in several years before they started to reappear online. Logos offers several Chinese & Korean versions but you have to go back several years to find the only Japanese version done in Logos.
3) The German Bible Society claims rights to the original manuscripts behind the NA27 and consequently forbids online usage by third parties and international sales. The Logos edition of Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible http://www.logos.com/products/details/3005s is a limited collection that I am sure has a handsome license fee.That's what I meant by denying whole continents. If you truly believe you hold the best translation of the actual words of God, how can you deny others access until you have collected your fee? Especially after reading how the poor servant mishandled the one talent entrusted to him.
According to Wikipedia the 1611 KJV is still held in copyright by the Crown of England. I don't hear the Queen asking for her cut of the profits.
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT arguing against "intellectual property rights." I AM criticizing the holders of copyrights for highway robbery & total denial of access. Also I highlighted in purple the Logos specific points of this post.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Ok here is my two cents worth I have not found logos 4 to be theologically bias I guess it depends on the contents of your library I am myself non denominational by choice not premil and I haven't found logos 4 gold edition which I have to be biased however I use logos 4 for background info maps original language and manuscripts and when I feel the need to peruse commentaries I use wordsearch 9 as their commentary packages are reasonable i.e. I have more of the commentaries on that software then in logos Gold which is a hint for logos please look into maybe adding more commentaries to your base packages I long for the day when I only have to use one software and logos is the elder with excellent cross refs inter linears etc.
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Sorry I fuilt the need to add logos 4 inter-lineals, original languages are awesome I didn't want to make it seem like wordsearch 9 is superior in that regard or that it is better or equal to logos 4 just that I find that logos 4 is lacking in commentaries in the base packages.
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I don't think the programmers are biased. I do have to wonder about the books that are made available though. Sometimes it seems a little heavy toward one side of things.
And sadly, I have to disagree about Orthodox representation in Logos. I would say the makeup of Logos is 93.4% Protestant, 6.5% Catholic, and approximately 0.00000000000000000000001% Orthodox (but those are just approximations; I think some resources actually use the word "orthodox" at times!). [;)]
(By the way, I am Protestant [H] )
Brandon
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I'd have to agree with you there, but most books today are outside of older commentaries tend to lead towards evangelicals etc that is just a fact of life traditionalists and or fundelmentalists tend to stick towards bible versions and manuscripts etc. Where I think Logos has room for improvement is in their bundling of various commentaries of a wide denominational and theological backgrounds both modern and older works.
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BrandonVaughn said:
I would say the makeup of Logos is 93.4% Protestant, 6.5% Catholic, and approximately 0.00000000000000000000001% Orthodox (but those are just approximations; I think some resources actually use the word "orthodox" at times!).
(By the way, I am Protestant
)Brandon
Just to verify your accuracy
1) How did you count the Early Church Fathers prior to the Great Schism?
2) Where did you place the Syriac resources?
3) Did you include the Coptic materials that are coming?
I ask because I estimated the Orthodox materials as approximately 0.00000000000000000000002% Orthodox [8-|]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Matthew C Jones said:
In the
lawless days of the Pre-Rules Forum I mercilessly castigated various paraphrases posing as translations and a couple copyrighted (read "profit motivated" when the Word of God is denied to whole continents) new translations. I'd hope you're talking about the Jehovah's Witness' "translation," but they've never claimed it was a paraphrase.
So I'm just going to go ahead and guess that you've never actually spent any time studying & reading up on translation methodology at all.
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Matthew C Jones said:
1) Zondervan has license restrictions controlling where the NIV can be sold so the proper profit can go to the proper pockets. In the past, Logos had to disable your NIV if you lived in Europe.
Actually this isn't accurate. In fact, it is wrong, inflammatory and cruel to Godly men and women. You would be wise to become informed before you speak.
The problem is that Zondervan is only licensed to sell the NIV in North America. Zondervan doesn't own the NIV. Biblical/IBS does. Because the Logos NIV receives the license from Zondervan, Logos has also been limited by Zondervan. Biblica/IBS licenses the NIV in English to other publishers.
Matthew C Jones said:DISCLAIMER: I am NOT arguing against "intellectual property rights." I AM criticizing the holders of copyrights for highway robbery & total denial of access. Also I highlighted in purple the Logos specific points of this post.
Again, you don't know what you're talking about. It is only highway robbery only if you think that supporting hundreds Bible translation projects around the world is highway robbery. What you call appear to be calling greedy profits, the translators from Lutheran Bible Translators, Wycliffe Bible Translators, Pioneers Bible Translations, and many others call financial support for an incredibly important ministry. I know of multiple translation projects that either would never have been completed or wouldn't exist today without the profits of the NIV.
And the same thing can be said for the German Bible Society (I don't know about Lockman). GBS makes Bible translation possible around the world as well.
So I repeat myself, don't talk so confidently about things you know nothing about. Missions cannot happen without Scripture in native languages. Scripture in native languages cannot happen without translation. Translation cannot happen without funding. Projects like the NIV make that funding possible for many, many languages.
To conclude, I'd like to adapt your own words:
If you truly believe that people having the actual words of God translated is so very important, how in the world can you possibly deny others access to those words through translation because of your wrong assumptions about the greed of fellow believers. Considering the reality of IBS/Biblica, I'd suggest that they've put far, far more thought into how the poor servant mishandled the one talent entrusted to him. And over the past 30 years through the NIV, they have multipled both scripture & translation a hundredfold.
UPDATE: I should say that the limits on Logos sale of the NIV being limited because of Zondervan's limited placed by IBS/Biblica is an assumption. I know that Zondervan is limited to North America. I don't know for sure that this is the reason behind Logos NIV limits.
See especially this blog post at BetterBibles.com (the blog for English Bible translation written by a number of Wycliffe Bible Translators & linguists):
http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/
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This thread has veered so far off course that in the interests of our peace, joy, love, unity, & guidelines, can we let it go?
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
BillS said:
This thread has veered so far off course that in the interests of our peace, joy, love, unity, & guidelines, can we let it go?
++
πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε
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huh... I did not know that.Mike Aubrey said:The problem is that Zonderrvan is only lisensed to sell the NIV in North America. Zondervan doesn't own the NIV. Biblical/IBS does. Because the Logos NIV receives the license from Zondervan, Logos has also been limited by Zondervan. Biblica/IBS licenses the NIV in English to other publishers.
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Joe Miller said:
huh... I did not know that.Mike Aubrey said:The problem is that Zonderrvan is only lisensed to sell the NIV in North America. Zondervan doesn't own the NIV. Biblical/IBS does. Because the Logos NIV receives the license from Zondervan, Logos has also been limited by Zondervan. Biblica/IBS licenses the NIV in English to other publishers.
Note also that I can't spell:
lisensed = licensed
English = England
Oops. I'll correct this in the post.
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Sorry to light your fuse Mike. It is funny you mention the Jehovah Witnesses since they are the ONLY cult that requires payment for the books they offer at your door. Every other religion will offer it for free. God's grace is FREE. Man puts a price on the delivery. Many churches in Japan do not pass an offering plate. They hide it so the non-bellievers don't feel compelled to give. Believers discreetly place their money without fanfare.
Mike Aubrey said:Zondervan doesn't own the NIV. Biblical/IBS does. Because the Logos NIV receives the license from Zondervan, Logos has also been limited by Zondervan. Biblica/IBS licenses the NIV in English to other publishers.
Thank you for this information.
Out of 87,000+ posts, You are the first person to ever make this statement. Assuming you are correct, just replace "Zondervan" with "Biblica/IBS" and I stand by my statement. I DO know about Lockman Foundation & the Japanese Bible translation project because I know the missionaries that did the actual translation work! I also know about Adoniram Judson & Hudson Taylor and John Wycliffe. They did not live in opulent houses relaxing in a life of leisure. The Summer Institutes of Linguistics was based at the University of Oklahoma long before Logos published the exegetical guides. (I almost joined Wycliffe back in the 1980's. The SIL was their exclusive training program then.) The Church of England used to chain the Bible to the pulpit and only seminarians were allowed to read it.
I maintain that GOD is the one who is spreading His Word around the world and will accomplish His will whether or not IBS, The Pope, The Church of England, The Lutheran Church or whomever is a willing, or grudging participant. Pharoah was used of God in the deliverance of Israel according to God's purpose. He was not a willing or benevolent participant. To give him accolades because he was used of God is misplaced gratitude on your part.
BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST TOPIC: There is virtually NO effective theological bias in the Logos software prorgammers group. You only introduce bias by the imbalance of your library content. I believe most users want their collections to favor their own leanings. Otherwise you would see broad support across the board for all divergent views in the Pre-Pub program. It would be interesting to know if Bob Pritchett has excluded giant blocks of theological content from his own library. I doubt he has. If I were the CEO of Logos I would have EVERYTHING in my library. That is how I know I am not biased. [:D]
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Mike Aubrey said:
I'd hope you're talking about the Jehovah's Witness' "translation," but they've never claimed it was a paraphrase.
FYI: I was referring to "The Message" I just hate to say the corrupt "New World Translation is a more accurate translation % wise than "The Message"
[:'(] [:(] [+o(] Oh! I just fell sick saying that.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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BillS said:
This thread has veered so far off course that in the interests of our peace, joy, love, unity, & guidelines, can we let it go?
Bump.
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
okay okay. And i admit it. I am theologically biased!!!!! [6][A][:#]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Matthew C Jones said:
Out of 87,000+ posts, You are the first person to ever make this statement. Assuming you are correct, just replace "Zondervan" with "Biblica/IBS" and I stand by my statement.
If you search the internet, you could have found similar statements (again here: http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/ straight from the horses' mouth)
Matthew C Jones said:They did not live in opulent houses relaxing in a life of leisure. The Summer Institutes of Linguistics was based at the University of Oklahoma long before Logos published the exegetical guides. (I almost joined Wycliffe back in the 1980's. The SIL was their exclusive training program then.) The Church of England used to chain the Bible to the pulpit and only seminarians were allowed to read it.
I am affiliated with Wycliffe/SIL.Matthew C Jones said:I maintain that GOD is the one who is spreading His Word around the world and will accomplish His will whether or not IBS, The Pope, The Church of England, The Lutheran Church or whomever is a willing, or grudging participant. Pharoah was used of God in the deliverance of Israel according to God's purpose. He was not a willing or benevolent participant. To give him accolades because he was used of God is misplaced gratitude on your part.
The difference between IBS/Biblica & Pharaoh is that IBS/Biblica is a willing participant. They are good stewards of what God has given them and like Paul said in Philippians of Timothy & Epaphroditus, they are people would should honor.0 -
Matthew C Jones said:
FYI: I was referring to "The Message" I just hate to say the corrupt "New World Translation is a more accurate translation % wise than "The Message"
I'm going to have to agree with you.
But only because Eugene Peterson never claimed The Message was a translation. Obviously the NWT is going to be a more accurate translation than something that isn't a translation could ever be.
On the other hand, when we come to the question of theological reliability, even a paraphrase like The Message trumps the NWT. Last time I checked, Jesus is still God in The Message.
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Ok let me add another two cents worth concerning the bias part I'm not sure nor convinced Logos is biased just the same as other competitors I would like to think that they try to get the most used works out there available today and of course from the business end demand has a big role in it. Touching translations unfortunately it is next to impossible to get another translation out to the public without being partial to the theology the translators hold (you would need I think to find some neutral translators i.e. possibly from unbelievers which I view as an improbability) All translations have there pluses and minuses some better than others. but for all of us that purchase bible software some from different vendors as myself we are perhaps above average as I would like to think we all tend to go deeper in studies and are open to the wide theological positions to form our opinions etc the fact that one would shell out the type of money it takes to possess software like logos says each of us plans or intends to go deep into our studies and learn as much as the Holy Spirit intends us to learn etc. My summary is this in looking at what logos offers in their collections and of course the extra collections you can build outside of the collection you own I see no restrictions.
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Mike Aubrey said:
If you search the internet, you could have found similar statements (again here: http://betterbibles.com/2009/03/31/the-production-of-the-tnivniv-bible-the-standard-of-integrity/ straight from the horses' mouth)
Searching the internet also yeilds: "The Message" by Eugene Peterson is a translation according to publisher NavPress. http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/Message-MSG-Bible/ And ever since I was a little kid, talking horses creep me out. Now talking donkeys is another thing alltogether.
Veering back to the original post: Nope. Logos programmers are not theologically biased. They can not even persuade me "The Message" is a valid, accurate translation. Even though it is listed among my 45 or so Bibles in Portfolio. (I don't think the horse is alive anymore. Seems not to say a word when I'm kicking it.)
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew,
I seriously don't get your vehemence (or whatever it would be called) against the Message. I don't always think his way of expressing it is that good, but sometimes it is marvelous, and I can't htink of any time any body has been led astray by it. It is not a literal translation, nor even dynamic. But it is what it is, a very unique and challenging way to express God's word.
I hadn't seen this side of you in I don't know how long. The whole translation reaction thing kind of baffles me. In fact, i have ran into more memorable issues with the NASB than I have the Message (of course I was holding NASB to a different standard. and don't get me wrong, I like it too). I just was never taught to think that way. take each for what it is, and use it that way.
I remember people slamming the LB when i was a kid. Now, i disagree theologically with several of his theological positions and resulting paraphrasing. But I gotta tell you: as a teen growing up in pagan Germany, that "translation" (yeah, i know what it really is) kept me grounded in God and reading and reading and reading. And I still grew up loving Him and being theologically infallible [;)]
Back on topic. This was really a weird thread. I am biased. I love Logos 4. [8-|]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Dan DeVilder said:
I seriously don't get your vehemence (or whatever it would be called) against the Message.
I have no particular animosity towards "The Message. " I just figure if they are big enough to make the claim (as they do) that it is a translation (some people actually believe that claim) then they should be able to bear scrutiny as well. Isn't that another form of textual criticism we champion these days?
My whole point in raising the translation issue was that is where we may be mislead rather than by commentary of men. Calvin, Luther, Augustine, MacArthur, Swaggart, Newman & Barth never laid claim their writings were the inspired Word of the Almighty God. Most Logos users do not give these men equal weight with the Bible.
I still assert: No, Logos programmers could not successfully bias the software if they wanted to. And I don't believe they would ever try to.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
I have no particular animosity towards "The Message. " I just figure if they are big enough to make the claim (as they do) that it is a translation (some people actually believe that claim) then they should be able to bear scrutiny as well. Isn't that another form of textual criticism we champion these days?
It's true.
Thankfully, the author of The Message does not consider it a translation and never intended it to be thought of as one. It has always been a paraphrase. What is unfortunate is that Navpress, its publisher, doesn't seem to follow through on that.
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Matthew C Jones said:
Out of 87,000+ posts, You are the first person to ever make this statement. Assuming you are correct, just replace "Zondervan" with "Biblica/IBS" and I stand by my statement.
By the way, the main reason why such as act (replacing "Zondervan" with "Biblica/IBS") isn't helpful is that Biblica/IBS is a nonprofit organization. They post their financial reports online. They distribute scripture around the world and do it well. They do translation for languages with 1 million people or more and contribute financially to organizations like Wycliffe/SIL who do translation with minority languages. Quote:
"Right now, Biblica has 300 full- and part-time Bible translation
staff working in 29 languages."http://www.biblica.com/aboutus/index.php
All that to say (and I'm trying to be informative, not polemical, about this quality Christian para-church organization): Biblica/IBS cannot be characterized in the way you have described in previous posts. Maybe Lockman can, I don't know about them and couldn't find too much info on their website. But Biblica/IBS is a quality, Godly group of men and women doing very important work. I'm greatly saddened that you stand by your statement. Organizations that do translation work deserve our support.
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Matthew C Jones said:
No, Logos programmers could not successfully bias the software if they wanted to. And I don't believe they would ever try to.
I am generally with you, and really, the programmers have never come to my mind in that way. I have sometimes wondered about library offerings, thinking perhaps that en toto, they were weighted toward the Calvinist side; that said, I am glad to have those in my library, as well as the whole range from Pannenberg (whom my dad took lectures under at the University of Munich) to Lucado to JPS publications.
I realize this is a different companies software, but Z has the g l o software, and there IS bias there, although I am trying to figure out if it is programming or library, or a little of both. They group subjects into "constellations." When you click on the end times constellation, there is far more info on Pre-mill related material--even the constellation itself is weighted toward that way, offering things like "rapture" "pre/mid trib" etc (operating off of memory here). It is like they can't even THINK of categories that might relate to Amill. So, I don't think that exists within Logos, but perhaps subtly, it could. Of course Joe M might say I am leveling an accusation with no evidence, only that there could be evidence. [6] Not trying to stir up trouble, just saying: I have seen a program show bias in g l .o software, and i realize that kind of thing could happen elsewhere.
But this is really just a goofy pursuit, by now. Not sure why I keep posting here. I htink it is just easy to pontificate rather than figure out tech questions. [:P]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Another Questions about "Theological Bias"
What about the things that pop up on the home page? I noticed that many of them come from the same resources. I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".
BTW - I agree with everyone else that your Logos library, on a whole, is only as theologically bias as your library. But I do wonder how the home page is chosen.
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sullivanmp@hotmail.com said:
What about the things that pop up on the home page? I noticed that many of them come from the same resources. I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".
I wondered about this too, then was thinking it's possible that the excerpts are drawn only from "base package" material, rather than independent publisher material. I don't feel like doing a multi-day item by item check against the base package contents, but I would be interested to know if anyone's home page excerpts reflect anything they know to be outside the contents of the various base package resources.
Tom
1 Cor 2:2
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sullivanmp@hotmail.com said:
Another Questions about "Theological Bias"
What about the things that pop up on the home page? I noticed that many of them come from the same resources. I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".
BTW - I agree with everyone else that your Logos library, on a whole, is only as theologically bias as your library. But I do wonder how the home page is chosen.
i think it is randomly selected . . . from your library! [:)] (seriously, it is)
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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sullivanmp@hotmail.com said:
What about the things that pop up on the home page? I noticed that many of them come from the same resources. I can't recall anything ever popping up from a Lutheran resource I have - except "books of the Day".
Good question, I too have noticed that none of the resources that I purchased and used do not show up on the home page.
Note 1: I did turned off most of the items on the homepage because they did not interest me.
Note 2: I use v3 99.75% of the time because of the note functionality in v4.0 -
Well, as far as the original question, I'm pretty sure that theologically Logos favors Christian theology over Muslim theology. I could be wrong, though [:D]
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JohnFrady said:
Does a programmer tell the computer how to respond to a search?
No.
Of course we have our own views, but we're building a library (and a bookstore), not running a teaching ministry. We try to keep the software as neutral as possible, and to license a broad range of resources. Yes, there's a slant towards the 66 book "North American Protestant" canon, and towards books you'd find in American Christian bookstores. But we're working hard to expand our support for not only the larger canon (we have a big advocate for better apocrypha/deuterocanonical materials in-house), but a wider range of resources. And, of course, that initial slant was driven more by where the market is than anything else. We're also slanted towards English materials, for similar reasons. It's not a dislike of other languages, it's just the one we know and the one spoken by most of the customers we can reach. As we get bigger, we (collectively) have more language skills, reach more people, etc. and start offering more stuff.
With 175+ people at Logos, there's lots of diversity of views and opinions.
Now, if I must confess to some actual bias... we tend to offer more of the products that sell.
:-)
(We believe in the Bible, and we have many opinions about it, many of which are probably wrong. Since we can't be sure which are right and wrong, confident though we may be, we provide tools to help you study it yourself.)
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Bob Pritchett said:
We're also slanted towards English materials
Now that just cracked me up! [:D]
See, Mr. Joe Miller, I KNEW they were biased, even though I couldn't quite prove it!
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Yes, there's a slant towards the 66 book "North American Protestant" canon, and towards books you'd find in American Christian bookstores.
How about a reverse interlinear apocrypha, then?
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Bob Pritchett said:
Now, if I must confess to some actual bias... we tend to offer more of the products that sell.
Good choice [H]. Our family's business has the same bias. Wonder why?
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Mike Aubrey said:
How about a reverse interlinear apocrypha, then?
Now under development.
* English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NRSV Apocryphal Texts
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
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tom collinge said:
Good question, I too have noticed that none of the resources that I purchased and used do not show up on the home page.
My purchased resources pop up frequently, e.g. BST, Translators Handbook, Tyndale commentary, etc etc. Actually I'd prefer it if they didn't as I know I have those and use them regularly. I've been very grateful when the homepage has drawn my attention to base package resources I didn't know i HAD. This is not a complaint, it just shows different people have different preferences! Maybe when we have a direct download of Logos to the braincells, Logos will be able to check other braincells to discover our preferences and adapt its random pop ups to suit them [;)]
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nicky crane said:tom collinge said:
Good question, I too have noticed that none of the resources that I purchased and used do not show up on the home page.
My purchased resources pop up frequently, e.g. BST, Translators Handbook, Tyndale commentary, etc etc. Actually I'd prefer it if they didn't as I know I have those and use them regularly. I've been very grateful when the homepage has drawn my attention to base package resources I didn't know i HAD. This is not a complaint, it just shows different people have different preferences! Maybe when we have a direct download of Logos to the braincells, Logos will be able to check other braincells to discover our preferences and adapt its random pop ups to suit them
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.
That would apply to the commentaries that pop up on my homepage. Though I'd prefer it to point me to resources I'm not using and which I may not know.
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nicky crane said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
One thing I know that influences my Home Page is my prioritized resources. You see first those devotionals you prioritize. It might be also with other type of resources like commentaries.
That would apply to the commentaries that pop up on my homepage. Though I'd prefer it to point me to resources I'm not using and which I may not know.
Actually I am not sure how it is. Right now I have excerpt from the Pulpit Commentary on my Home Page. I never use the Pulpit Commentary. The second one is from the New Bible Commentary I have as #1 (one volume) commentary. So I don't know...
Bohuslav
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I'd like to say thanks to Bob for coming in and settling the question himself.
Second of all, what little, and I do mean little, I do know about programming I would think that no matter if you were on L1.5, L2, L3 or L4 or L24 that a database is what it is. If you're searching an individual Bible or book (seen the same way by the engine), you'd come up with the results of either a hit or a miss. I don't know how you can program bias into searching the Bible.
For example, in my personal study and life, I've probably read the Bible through about 12 times (20 years of life as a Christian) and there are, of course, some things that I am much more aquatinted with than others; I am more aquatinted with Philippians than I am Song of Soloman, for example.
I've had verses which I knew in my head were said "this way" and I mean I KNEW it was said just like that image I had in my mind. But, when I went to Logos, I couldn't even find one word of it. When I finally did find the verse(s) I was looking for, I would scratch my head thinking "from where in the world did I get those words and structure?". Logos has humbled me and reminded me at just how limited and sorry the human mind really is when it comes to memory.
In reflection, I think, sadly, our theology get's like that last paragraph, too. The one time I can remember what I had fooled myself into thinking, it was an eschatological verse and concept. I believe we think about our theories more than we do the verses, sometimes, and they become muddled.
The database doesn't do this. It is a "on or off," a "yes or no," and a "1 or a 0."
Wilson Hines
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I can tell the OP that Logos may feel biased at times in searches, but searching can bias itself easily if you are not careful. Take this for instance:
1) You search an area that only Catholic resources address, and perhaps a few conservative resources (i.e. transubstantiation). You may feel like the search is biased towards Catholic theology, but really is not since this area is not addressed often by conservative resources.
2) You search a broad area, but your library has more liberal resources (typical of a Logos package IMO) than conservative, so you will get what is possibly felt is a liberally weighted response.
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package, but selecting a package or individual resources is a whole other ball game and analysis all together.
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Pat Flanakin said:
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package,
Just to put things in perspective I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because
of all the conservative resources that comes with a typical Logos package,[:)] My point, as well as yours Pat, is that the bias in packages is in the eyes of the beholder. It is the additional purchases you make that brings the resources into balance.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Pat Flanakin said:
I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because of all the liberal resources that comes with a typical Logos package,
Just to put things in perspective I can tell you I often get a bunch of junk answers to searches because
of all the conservative resources that comes with a typical Logos package,
My point, as well as yours Pat, is that the bias in packages is in the eyes of the beholder. It is the additional purchases you make that brings the resources into balance.MJ, you beat me in responding to Pat's post. I too often get a bunch of junk answers because of all the conservative resources. [:)]
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I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal. I'm so new at this that when I don't understand something in the bible (and I usually read the same thing in the ESV, NRSV, KJV and NIV and sometimes NLT to try to understand it (most recently studying Romans 7 and 8), I have trouble figuring out which commentary will give me a biblical, even handed, understandable explanation. I finally just decided not to understand foreknowledge and election and move on.[8-)]
I've been using Logos heavily for about 3 years and it's a wonderful tool. If it's biased they've put it by me.
Luther
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Luther Locklin said:
I wish I knew which results were conservative and which were liberal.
Both of those terms ("liberal" & "conservative") are loaded and any preconceptions you may have on their usage will dictate what answers you get to your questions and how you will handle those answers.
In short I would say
"Liberal" resources are willing to explore different trains of thought and interpretations that go beyond or contrary to the status quo.
"Conservative" resources will stay mainstream usually reserving dogma to an internal textual basis.It depends a lot on your view on the inspiration of scripture.
I enjoy reading both types of resources. But it makes the most sense to me to read an adherent's take on things before reading a critic's (ie a Rabbi's take on things in Judaism, a Priest's take on things in Catholicism, a Pentecostal's on his own, etc.) Critics can frequently be dishonest in their representation of their target's beliefs.
It is also helpful to read those contrary to your own beliefs. It will help you sharpen your defenses or possibly change your incorrect preconceptions! Heaven forbid you be mistaken in some doctrine. [:O]Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:
"Conservative" resources will stay mainstream usually reserving dogma to an internal textual basis.
I got into trouble when wrestling with Zacchaeus story: Salvation has come to this house(?hold), and was told that what I thought the text meant was wrong because 'it doesn't fit with doctrine'! I had been under the impression that doctrine should be tested against the Bible, not the Bible against doctrine...
In fact our understanding of the Bible is often affected by our theology, e.g. on this rock I will build my church.
Matthew jones: "It is also helpful to read those contrary to your own beliefs. It will help you sharpen your defenses or possibly change your incorrect preconceptions! Heaven forbid you be mistaken in some doctrine.
"I do agree!
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