chiasmic structure
Can anyone point me to some quality resources on chiasmic structure?
My entire L4 Lib only has two references to chiasmic structure and they are woefully wanting.
Thanks
Comments
-
The best I've ever seen is The Literary Structure of the Old Testament: A Commentary on Genesis-Malachi by David Dorsey. But alas, that is not in Logos format. I'll suggest it!
You can see lots of sample pages on Amazon.com though, because it's got Search Inside This Book. Search for any book of the OT and click on a page where that's found and explore from there using previous and next page buttons. There will be a final upper limit on the number of pages you can previous this way, but you'll get a really good taste of it.
There is no such corresponding volume for the New Testament as far as I know, since there isn't as much chiasm in Greek compositional structure. But there's enough to want to see some examples. If you search your library for chiasm or chiastic (the latter finds way more hits for me than chiasmic) you might find some commentaries that show examples, though it will be hard to wade through all the hits.
0 -
Here is something I put together if it helps http://www.morethancake.org/2008/06/chiastic-structures-in-the-scripture.htmlAnthony Hamlin said:Can anyone point me to some quality resources on chiasmic structure?
0 -
Thanks Rosie.
Thanks Joe.
I'll give them a look, a search and a read.
Appreciate it! [*] [*] [*]
0 -
I consider The Shape of Biblical Language: Chiasmus in the Scriptures and Beyond by John Breck to the best book on the topic. There is also a website devoted to the topic which is good for examples.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
The best I've ever seen is The Literary Structure of the Old Testament: A Commentary on Genesis-Malachi by David Dorsey. But alas, that is not in Logos format. I'll suggest it!
I have used Dorsey's work but I sometimes think that he sees chiasmus even when there are none
It is probably the "best" out there but one must be aware of its subjective nature and use discernment
Alain
0 -
Alain Maashe said:Rosie Perera said:
The best I've ever seen is The Literary Structure of the Old Testament: A Commentary on Genesis-Malachi by David Dorsey. But alas, that is not in Logos format. I'll suggest it!
I have used Dorsey's work but I sometimes think that he sees chiasmus even when there are none
It is probably the "best" out there but one must be aware of its subjective nature and use discernment
I agree. Discernment is always needed whenever using any resources, especially those done by individual authors.
EDIT: Recognizing chiasmus is a somewhat subjective art anyway. There are times when it is absolutely obvious it was intentional, and times when you can't really be sure. But given that the writers of Scripture were guided by the Holy Spirit even in their literary crafting of what they wrote, I wouldn't put it past God to let us find artistic chiasm even when the human author didn't intentionally put it in. What we have to be careful about though is using that to come to some theological conclusion about what the most important verse is (the center of the chiasm). It could be that in many cases we're just meant to appreciate the chiasm for it's symmetric beauty and enjoy it at that level without drawing any theological importance out of it. Chiasm was sometimes merely a way of making texts more easily memorable, too, since not many people in those days had the luxury of being able to read or owning copies of the books. So drawing greater meaning out of it might be misguided in certain cases.
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
What we have to be careful about though is using that to come to some theological conclusion about what the most important verse is (the center of the chiasm).
I agree, Rosie. I think too often some of the articles I've read make the leap from a chiastic structure to the meaning of a passage. If you buy into the premise that the center of the chiasm is the most important then you sometimes have to force rest of the passage to fit this mold. Walter Kaiser is one of my favorite scholars, but in his Intro to Biblical Hermeneutics, he writes that Daniel 1-7 is a large chiasm. To do this, however, he has to make the theme of ch. 3 the persecution of Israel by the Gentiles. While this is there, there seem to be other much more prominent themes. A good article, which discusses the strengths and weaknesses of chiasm and gives some warnings for its use is - Craig L. Blomberg, “The Structure of 2 Corinthians 1-7,”
Criswell Theological Review 4 (Fall 1989): 3-20.πάντα εἰς δόξαν θεοῦ ποιεῖτε
0 -
There are of course plenty of cases where the center is indeed the most important part of the passage. But that is just not universally so.
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
The Shape of Biblical Language: Chiasmus in the Scriptures and Beyond by John Breck
I agree. This work is a classic.
Dell XPS 8930/Intel Core i7-8700@3.20GHz/32GB RAM/Win10 Pro
Surface Pro 7/Intel Core i7-1065 G7@1.30GHz/16 GB RAM/Win10 Home
iPad Air/Pixel/Faithlife Connect
0 -
I'm sure it's just a typo? I thought it's "chiastic" and not "chiasmic". [:)]
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
EDIT: Recognizing chiasmus is a somewhat subjective art anyway. There are times when it is absolutely obvious it was intentional, and times when you can't really be sure. But given that the writers of Scripture were guided by the Holy Spirit even in their literary crafting of what they wrote, I wouldn't put it past God to let us find artistic chiasm even when the human author didn't intentionally put it in
Hi,
my thoughts are probably not many look for this and if happen to find a construction more then likely will admit it is forced. The reason why I say this is how many Christians do we know of that know Chiasmistic constructions let alone know other ancient Paralellisms? My experiance is if you know about this you probably know quite a bit and will be honest about it. Me, tried using it for a better explanation of Acts 2:38 and could not justify this approach though it does work and answer objections of baptism regeneration though I decided not to use it since it was a bit forced and prayed to God for help(which we should do more often) found a better answer in a commentary I woulkd best describe as inductive bible study-Acta 1:5 as the great commission taking care of Acts 2 and Marks rendition. The point is would have loved to use chiastic constructions for Acts 2:38 but was seen as forced a bit.
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
The best I've ever seen is The Literary Structure of the Old Testament: A Commentary on Genesis-Malachi by David Dorsey. But alas, that is not in Logos format. I'll suggest it!
Does anyone know why these were used by ancient authors? The one thing I learned is this was used to make recall of specific points more easily remembered. In other words it was originally used as a memorization method. Wonder if anyone heard or consideed using this as a memorization method?
On another note is there a resource that shows differing paralellisms used in the bible and listing passages that use these? Would be a great resource if we had something like this.
0 -
Chiasm and many other figures of speech were used to help people listen to what was read, as almost all reading in ancient times was aloud. Figures of speech helped to make what was said memorable for the hearers (a mnemonic aid). Often chiasm helped structure narrative and make it memorable. Oral composition often makes use of figures to help the listener follow what is being said.
iMac Retina 5K, 27": 3.6GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9; 16GB RAM;MacOS 10.15.5; 1TB SSD; Logos 8
MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
iPad Pro 32GB WiFi iOS 13.5.1
iPhone 8+ 64GB iOS 13.5.1
0 -
Isaiah was a master of this kind of structure, using chiasms within chiasms. Sometimes he has nested chiasms on one theme running in parallel with (i.e. interspersed with) nested chiasms on another (e.g. the Anointed one and glorious Zion themes in Isa 59 - 63.)
If you are interested in following up on Isaish's chiasms, J A Motyer outlines these well in his Prophecy of Isaiah. If you have the Tyndale commentaries, Motyer does Isaiah in that series also (though not to the same depth.)
0 -
Amy Leung said:
I'm sure it's just a typo? I thought it's "chiastic" and not "chiasmic".
You are probably write or right ...LOL
It could be that a psalm is recognized as chiastic in structure and that a person could speak chiasmic. But I might be making that up.
[A]
0 -
Mary-Ellen Vian said:MJ. Smith said:
The Shape of Biblical Language: Chiasmus in the Scriptures and Beyond by John Breck
I agree. This work is a classic.
Thank you - I was starting to think no one else was familiar with the book which would be a real shame.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Kenneth Bailey, "Poet & Peasant, Through Peasant's eyes"
Kenneth Bailey, "Jacob and the Prodigal."
Kenneth Bailey, "Jesus through Middle Eastern Eyes"
Kenneth Bailey, "Finding the Lost."
Ian Thomson "Chiasmus in the Pauline Letters (Journal for the Study of the New Testament)
The NT is full of chiasmus. The last book mentioned is a scholarly analysis to Paul's use of it and is quite good. Kenneth Bailey spent some 40 years in the Middle East as a teacher and pastor. In the first book listed above he gives a great deal of information about how to analyze a chiasmus and more generally how poetics work in the NT and OT. It is definitely worth reading to understand how to recognize the patterns found in both the OT and the NT. He focuses quite a bit on Luke's Gospel. Bailey also has a web site http://www.shenango.org/bailey.htm
Enjoy
0 -
heres one you may want to read
http://www.inthebeginning.org/chiasmus/introduction/chiasmus_intro.htm
DISCLAIMER: What you do on YOUR computer is your doing.
0 -
This is just a nice little example of Chiasm in Deuteronomy, which is filled with it. I also agree many see chiasm when it just seems "forced", to me. But Dr. Hall has a pretty good grasp on it. He has tidbits on it throughout the commentary on Deuteronomy.
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<CHAP2.SECT10.SCH2.BI4>.5001.0|res=LLS:CPC_DEUT
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
I would check out also Bullingers Companion Bible, he does some good work on this subject.
0 -
Anthony Hamlin said:
Can anyone point me to some quality resources on chiasmic structure?
My entire L4 Lib only has two references to chiasmic structure and they are woefully wanting.
Thanks
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<MK.511>.0.0|res=LLS:29.46.16
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<INTRO.9.4>.0.0|res=LLS:NIGTCMT
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<TITLE16>.0.0|res=LLS:gs_bsac_141
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<TITLE10>.0.0|res=LLS:gs_ctsj_09
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<INTRO.D.2>.0.0|res=LLS:29.52.12
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<FRONT.10>.2974.0|res=LLS:29.54.12
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<DIV124>.0.0|res=LLS:CLAUSALNT
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<MK.253>.0.0|res=LLS:29.46.16
Sorry but I got tired.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0 -
Lynden Williams said:Anthony Hamlin said:
Can anyone point me to some quality resources on chiasmic structure?
My entire L4 Lib only has two references to chiasmic structure and they are woefully wanting.
Thanks
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<MK.511>.0.0|res=LLS:29.46.16
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<INTRO.9.4>.0.0|res=LLS:NIGTCMT
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<TITLE16>.0.0|res=LLS:gs_bsac_141
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<TITLE10>.0.0|res=LLS:gs_ctsj_09
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<INTRO.D.2>.0.0|res=LLS:29.52.12
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<FRONT.10>.2974.0|res=LLS:29.54.12
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<DIV124>.0.0|res=LLS:CLAUSALNT
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<MK.253>.0.0|res=LLS:29.46.16
Sorry but I got tired.
The hyperlinking is not working, so copy and paste in the command bar.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0 -
Lynden Williams said:Lynden Williams said:Anthony Hamlin said:
Can anyone point me to some quality resources on chiasmic structure?
My entire L4 Lib only has two references to chiasmic structure and they are woefully wanting.
Thanks
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<MK.511>.0.0|res=LLS:29.46.16
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<INTRO.9.4>.0.0|res=LLS:NIGTCMT
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<TITLE16>.0.0|res=LLS:gs_bsac_141
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<TITLE10>.0.0|res=LLS:gs_ctsj_09
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<INTRO.D.2>.0.0|res=LLS:29.52.12
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<FRONT.10>.2974.0|res=LLS:29.54.12
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<DIV124>.0.0|res=LLS:CLAUSALNT
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<MK.253>.0.0|res=LLS:29.46.16
Sorry but I got tired.
The hyperlinking is not working, so copy and paste in the command bar.
Thanks Lynden, I'll give them a look through this afternoon... thanks everyone.
Blessings in Christ.
0 -
Dan DeVilder said:
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<CHAP2.SECT10.SCH2.BI4>.5001.0|res=LLS:CPC_DEUT
What is this?
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
A link to a Logos resource ... a commentary series known as CPC?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
a commentary series known as CPC?
What is CPC? I am interested in the link that was provided but opening it up on L4 with this link would at the moment crash my machine. Could you provide the specifics of the commentary so one can look it up? Much appreciated.
0 -
sure! I can supply the commentary: College Press NIV Commentary on Deuteronomy. Dr. Hall's work is not overly technical, but it is not dumbed down, either. He is a very careful thinker, and I would highly recommend checking out this resource. Toward the beginning, he has a few paragraphs on chiastic structure in Deuteronomy, and throughout the commentary he will highlight sections that exhibit it. He does not (as many do) go seeking out chiasm even when it appears to not be there. Besides "careful" exegetical work, I find him not to be beholden to any system of thought, for its own sake. He really tries to get at what the Hebrew text says, and considers the near and far context for meaning.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
JimMcDaniel said:Dan DeVilder said:
libronixdls:jump|pos=LLS-AOL:0<CHAP2.SECT10.SCH2.BI4>.5001.0|res=LLS:CPC_DEUT
What is this?
Answer below. But let me hijack--well, go off topic, Jim: I saw you post on a Mindjet blog site. You use MM? We have a thread on it somewhere here (too lazy to go look for it right now). Several have weighed in on mindmapping. Would like your input, too. I have finally started making mm'ing a weekly event, but for now have used it more for tasks. I would like to make more regular use for studying and preaching (Fred Greco gave some examples that were insightful).
okay--i decided to give you the link:
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0 -
0
-
There's an 80 pages discussion of Chiasmus in the Hebrew Bible in chapter 7 of Watson's Traditional Techniques in Classical Hebrew Verse, and another short discussion in Classical Hebrew Poetry: A Guide to its Techniques. Both of those volumes can be found in the new-ish prepub Hebrew Studies Collection.
0 -
Lynden Williams said:
My entire L4 Lib only has two references to chiasmic structure and they are woefully wanting.
I will have to go over my books for was able to find some but would say be careful as Mormons teach their book of Mormon uses Chiasmitic(?) constructions and one time accidentally bought a Mormon resource. Also something just went on prepub I am looking at that deals with the OT in a more literary structure. You can find somethings online but not really to extensive or in depth. Had goten a recommendation from a Seminary but too much money for so little-decided not to get it.
0 -
Think I got your hyperlinks setup - with libronixdls links you have to actually insert the link with the chain icon and setting the link url as it isn't automatically linked.
0 -
An interesting thread. [I]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
0 -
David Ladiges said:
Think I got your hyperlinks setup - with libronixdls links you have to actually insert the link with the chain icon and setting the link url as it isn't automatically linked.
David, I am a bit tech challenged, so forgive my ignorance: my own link was directly from L4. I selected "url". What else should I have done for it to appear here as a link?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
0
