New desktop computer question

So I'm thinking about using some of my money that I'm getting back from Uncle Sam to purchase a new system.

My question is, if I go with an "off the shelf" core i3, with six gigs of ram, will my L4 performance be good using the built-in video card?

Or do I really need to consider a high performance video card, with the new desktop purchase?

Thanks

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Dave Hooton

Paul

I'm thinking about a Core i5 750 with a not too expensive 1 GB video card (probably less than $US100) - much better than the built-in graphics.

The i5 quad-core will outperform the i3 dual-core and you could start with 4 GB memory to afford the i5[:)], because the i3 is not much faster than existing Core 2 Duo.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/88527#Comment_88527

Tom's Hardware Guide includes "Build Your Own" section and "Best Graphics Cards For The Money" articles (updated 6 to 12 times a year):

http://www.tomshardware.com

Quad Core performance comparison includes Core 2 Quad, i5 and i7:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/quad-core-cpu,2499.html

Have Fun [:)]

Bob Schlessman

You are not going to see a big difference between onboard graphics and a standalone card with Logos 4. t is not a graphics intensive application in spite of its huge size and number of resources. I recently upgtraded my system to a stand alone card from the onboard graphics and the difference was not noticeable. Logos 3 and 4 are both CPU and memory intensive applications. Buy the best processor and most memory for the money. I would definitely go for Windows 7 64 bit version so you can address all of the available memory.

However, if you also plan to use your sysem for graphics intensive applications such as video editing or gaming then you will definitaely need the stand alone card.There are some excellent cards available for around $100.00 (even less as of last week) that will blow onboard graphics out of the water.

So you really need to evaluate your needs for the system and go from there. You are not going to save any money by custom building your system but you can fine tune it to suit your specific needs. And you won't get stuck with all of the bloatware that the manufacturers load on off the shelf systems. Cleaning all of that junk off takes a while and can be a very frustrating process.

Personally I would go with an I5 or better processor with a minimum of 4 gig of mamory (8 would be even better) and all of the hard drive space you can get. Add an ATI 4650 or better graphics card and you have an excellent all around system that should meet your needs for some time to come.

Good luck in your search.

Pastor Bob Schlessman

Palmyra Christian Church

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/88568#Comment_88568

You are not going to see a big difference between onboard graphics and a standalone card with Logos 4. t is not a graphics intensive application in spite of its huge size and number of resources. I recently upgtraded my system to a stand alone card from the onboard graphics and the difference was not noticeable.

Actually, some people have noted improvements in performance from using a faster graphics card with more memory. Even though Logos 4 isn't "graphics intensive" in the way that a 3D game is say, it uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) -- part of .NET Framework 3.0 -- instead of the old GDI (which Logos 3 used) to do its display rendering. WPF is slower and more of a memory hog than GDI was. See this thread for more info: Better Video Cards Do Make a Difference

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/88572#Comment_88572

Actually, some people have noted improvements in performance from using a faster graphics card with more memory. Even though Logos 4 isn't "graphics intensive" in the way that a 3D game is say, it uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) -- part of .NET Framework 3.0 -- instead of the old GDI (which Logos 3 used) to do its display rendering. WPF is slower and more of a memory hog than GDI was. See this thread for more info: Better Video Cards Do Make a Difference

Interesting info on the difference in the way Logos 4 handles display rendering Rosie. However, I stand by my original statements based on my personal experience. Are there given functions and specific actions that will show some performance improvement? Absolutely. But I haven't seen a noticeable difference in overall performance in Logos 4 or Logos 3 after adding a standalone mid-priced video card with 1 gig of video memory. Granted, what onboard GPU is being replaced may make a difference. But in my experience the change has been negligible.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/88574#Comment_88574

Interesting info on the difference in the way Logos 4 handles display rendering Rosie. However, I stand by my original statements based on my personal experience.

Hi Bob, I wasn't meaning to deny your personal experience, so you certainly should stand by it. But you said with confidence "You are not going to see a big difference between onboard graphics and a standalone card with Logos 4." Perhaps the first few words make it too sweeping a generalization. Probably most people won't see a big difference. All I was saying is that some others have experienced noticeable improvement. There could be other factors at play, but all this just to say to others reading this thread: you might find that a faster graphics card improves performance for you, though there are no guarantees. Logos's own recommended system requirements for running Logos 4 (on Windows) include: "512MB DirectX9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver" (http://www.logos.com/support/techfaq#sysreqs). They say you can get by with less (128MB) but the implication is that more memory on your graphics card could make your experience of running Logos more pleasant.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/88940#Comment_88940

Hi Rosie,

That all makes sense. I know my Dell with integrated graphics at the church building is much more sluggish than my custom built home computer which has the standalone card. I had assumed it was just the difference betweeen CPUs (3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 vs E7200 Core 2 Duo). The cpu plays a role but given what you told me I suspect now that the graphics adaptor effects the Dell as well.. Since I saw negligible difference when I upgraded the home computer to a standalone card I assumed the graphics adaptor wasn't an issue. The frustrating thing is the Dell doesn't have a way to upgrade since it has only 3 PCI slots and 1 PCI Express x 1 slot that are all currently occupied by other cards. It's LGA 775 so I could upgrade the CPU to a Core 2 Duo and double the memory from 2 gig to 4 gig which would help considerably but I don't think it is worth the expense.

Anyhow, I digress. It sounds like the bottom line if we want optimal performance in all circumstances then a stand-alone card is the best way to go. Didn't mean to come off sounding so defensive. Thank you for the info and clarification. It has been an educational experience for me.

Regards,

Bob

Michael Birney

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89103#Comment_89103

I have a midrange and high end graphic card in my 2 desktops, I think the high end is worth the $. Again, this is all subjective based on my experience.

As to the original post, If I was buying today - if you really can't build your own (and that is pretty easy, call frys.com, tell them what you want to build, they'll send it), then buy box store or online quadcore, 8gb, and install an upgraded video card, make sure it is not a gaming video card, those often require an upgraded power supply.

Rich DeRuiter

So I'm thinking about using some of my money that I'm getting back from Uncle Sam to purchase a new system.

My question is, if I go with an "off the shelf" core i3, with six gigs of ram, will my L4 performance be good using the built-in video card?

Or do I really need to consider a high performance video card, with the new desktop purchase?

Thanks

Those spec's aren't bad, but I wouldn't buy 'off the shelf' for my main computer. I'm too picky about what I want. My last 5 computers I've configured at Dell. HP is also very good. Most 'off the shelf' systems are designed for folks who do a bit of email, internet and solitaire. Some offer a few more bells and whistles for folks who like to download music and video. Logos4 is an intense data retrieval program that impacts CPU for operations and hits the video pretty heavy for display. You're probably going to want something that looks more like a gaming computer - though you don't need quite as much as a high-end gaming video card.

If you can afford an i5 or i7 go with that. L4 is a bit CPU intensive and can take advantage of all that multicore techonology. Since I try to keep my systems for a while, I try to buy just a bit more than I need at the moment.

There is also some performance improvement with the 64 bit environment, which I assume you have because of the 6GB of RAM.

As far as video goes, at least 512MB of dedicated video RAM, 1GB is better. As one who has an ATI card, I can recommend nVidia for best performance for Logos4.

I can also highly recommend two displays. Even if you can only afford one for now, make sure your video card supports dual displays (almost all of them do).

Since Logos is my main tool for sermon prep, which is the main reason I have a computer, I don't mind spending 'real money' on a system that will help me do my work better. My time is much more important to me than my money.

Paul Golder

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89174#Comment_89174

Thanks to everyone for all the information.

While L4 is probably the main catalyst in my purchase, it definitely is not the only reason. My current system is 3 years old ( a milleniain the computer world ), and it is time to upgrade. In the past 15 years or so I taken to purchasing "off the shelf" systems, from "big box" stores, mostly because I get the most "bang for the buck" (am I overusing idioms? [:)])

And in the past my new systems seemed like lighting compared to the previous ones, even with low to mid range processors. Also it seems that the weakest point in a mass market system, is the video card being part of the motherboard. So with the previous discussions on video card performance issues, that is why I asked.

The power supply would be another consideration with a higher performance graphics card, but more of the systems seem to be coming with better power supplies, due to the fact that everyone is jacking a dozen usb devices into their computers nowadays.

I'm also taking into consideration the monetary investment into hardware versus resources.

I miss the old days, when my 286 with a 20meg hard drive was all I would ever need in my lifetime...

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89292#Comment_89292

I miss the old days, when my 286 with a 20meg hard drive was all I would ever need in my lifetime...

Although it would cost close to $2000, back when that was real money. [;)]

April Pyle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89324#Comment_89324

I remember an xt with a 40 mg HD with an RLL controller to 76mg and couldn't imagine needing anything more.

Both my desktop and my laptop are over 6 years old (desktop probably 8-10). I run Logos on the laptop with 2 mgs of RAM. It's slow, but it works. My Toshiba Satellite Pro laptop, though about six years old, (upgraded hard drive and memory) seemed to be actually more than I'd ever need when I bought it. Who knew. Unfortunately, a new computer isn't in my near future.

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89174#Comment_89174

"I can also highly recommend two displays"

I have a couple of questions. First not disputing your recomendation but I dont understand how I would benifit with two displays. I have heard others say this as well and I'm ignorant in this department and dont understand. could you explain?

I'm on the hunt for a new desktop PC so I logged on to the forums looking around for some advice. The system I have now is one of those off the shelf Acer models that seemed very powerful at the time; but the more I get into the study of God's Word with Logos the more I see I really need a new system. I made some adjustment that were recommended here on this forum and it did help but this is some heavy duty computing and I would like to get a lot more done in less time (wouldn't we all) Logos 4 is a great program and the results are a blessing and well worth the cost of an upgrade. I have budgeted around $1500.00 besides it would be nice if all my other applications ran better anyway. I do some web site building also with yahoo "SiteBuilder" software which really slows down my present PC. My contract with Yahoo is about to run out and I am thinking of switching to "squarespace" they are recommended by "twit". But you guys know Logos software and that is my main objective for a more powerful PC so I hope you can point me in the right direction for one that will be the best for running Logos 4. I have never had a custom PC built since the first one I bought about 14 years ago. I had a local computer place build it, didn't have a clue what I was doing just took their advice. I told them I wanted a "big one" :-) LOL later I added memory and another CD drive and another hard drive. It started out with having a whopping 250 "Meg" of memory I think, and an 8 Gig hard drive. I gave over a $1000 back then for it... since then I have bought several off the shelf desktops and laptops. Getting off track here with all this retro stuff.

here are the specs for my present desktop which is too slow:

Acer Aspire T690 4.00
GB RAM 64-bit operating system 2

Processor Genuine
Intel(R) CPU 2140 @ 1.60GHz

Memory (RAM) 4.00 GB

Graphics ATI Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series 2431 MB 1024
MB 0 MB 1407 MB 8.812.0.0 1360x768 DirectX 10

Gaming graphics 2431 MB Total available
graphics memory

Primary hard disk 437 GB 42 GB
Free (144 GB Total) 126 GB Free (149 GB Total) 133 GB Free (144 GB Total)

Windows
7 Home Premium

Base score 4.0

Any suggestions for a good Desktop PC for around $1500.00? And where to buy it?

I have been looking at Tiger Direct's Systemax Sytems that are built to order and at Dell customizing one for me.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks and God Bless,

Dennis

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226491#Comment_226491

Any suggestions for a good Desktop PC for around $1500.00? And where to buy it?

I have been looking at Tiger Direct's Systemax Sytems that are built to order and at Dell customizing one for me.

Sandy Bridge processors are noticeably faster (Comparing CPU's) => http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

Dell has new XPS 8300 that has Intel Quad Core i7-2600 configuration option (bundle under $ 1,500)

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226502#Comment_226502

Thanks Sandy!

I know Dell is a good solid system. I will also check out your link. I did hear on tech news that "sandy bridge" had a big recall of their mother boards? dont know if that has anything to do with this though.

Peace

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226502#Comment_226502

Wow! I didn't realize there was that much difference in the AMD Phenom II X6 1090T and the Intel Core i7 970 @ 3.20GHz processors. these are in several of the machines I had been comparing...

Thanks again Sandy

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226540#Comment_226540

I've got another question. This one about Windows. Would I benefit from upgrading to Windows 7 Professional over Windows
7 Home Premium using Logos 4 ?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226530#Comment_226530

I know Dell is a good solid system. I will also check out your link. I did hear on tech news that "sandy bridge" had a big recall of their mother boards? dont know if that has anything to do with this though.

Recall because chipset has performance issues with SATA 3 GB/sec ports - pair of 6GB/sec ports unaffected => http://www.anandtech.com/show/4142/intel-discovers-bug-in-6series-chipset-begins-recall

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226541#Comment_226541

I've got another question. This one about Windows. Would I benefit from upgrading to Windows 7 Professional over Windows
7 Home Premium using Logos 4 ?

Windows 7 Professional includes more features than Windows 7 Home Premium => http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/compare - including Windows XP mode (free download - can run Windows XP Professional in virtual machine)

Personally not use WIndows XP mode for Logos - your mileage may vary.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226545#Comment_226545

Thanks for the link I'm headed over there...

Peace

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226545#Comment_226545

Thanks for the link, after looking it over I cant see how Windows 7 Professional would be of any benifit with Logos 4. I dont think I have any software that would run better in XP mode.

Peace,

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226545#Comment_226545

@Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :-), Sorry for calling you Sandy... I feel so foolish [:$] it was part of the processors name... reading too quickly I guess but thanks for your help,

Peace

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/226491#Comment_226491

here are the specs for my present desktop which is too slow:

Acer Aspire T690 4.00
GB RAM 64-bit operating system 2

Processor Genuine
Intel(R) CPU 2140 @ 1.60GHz

Memory (RAM) 4.00 GB

Graphics ATI Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series 2431 MB 1024
MB 0 MB 1407 MB 8.812.0.0 1360x768 DirectX 10

Gaming graphics 2431 MB Total available
graphics memory

Primary hard disk 437 GB 42 GB
Free (144 GB Total) 126 GB Free (149 GB Total) 133 GB Free (144 GB Total)

Windows
7 Home Premium

Base score 4.0

Curious about plans for old system ? (keep around for spare, backup, test, etc)

Wondering is primary hard disk partitioned (e.g. C:, , E:) ?

Keep Smiling [:)]

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