"The Bible and its Story"/Pornography

George T. Kelley

Is it just me or is it Pornography? Again today I open up Logos4 and there was some partially nude people on my screen. I would not watch anything on my TV that was like that or see a movie or want to display this during the Sunday School hour. I have hear and read that some so-called churches are going in the "christian pornography" business. How far we have fallen.

"The Bible and its Story" is varied, some pornography pictures and some not, but you never know what you are going to get. To me this is a disgrace.

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I've noticed the same pictures popping up on the homepage once in a while. I'm considering hiding the resource.

"The Bible and its Story" is varied, some pornography pictures and some not, but you never know what you are going to get.

Varied opinions here, but I would say that a picture is not pornographic just because it might have naked people in it. That doesn't mean the picture is edifying to look at, but pornographic images are those images which are in some sense sexually explicit with the intention of arousing sexual desire. The images in "The Bible and its Story" are not for that purpose. Again, that doesn't mean the pictures are edifying, but I want to be particular about my use of the word 'pornography'.

As for whether or not the pictures are edifying, I'd say they may or may not be useful depending on one's use, but it would be best if Logos had some way of ensuring they not show up on the Logos home page.

As for Christians in "christian pornography" business, I imagine these would be ministries directed toward people with pornography addiction or directed toward men and women involved in the pornography industry. I would be very surprised to hear of a Christian group producing pornographic material or being involved in the pornography industry.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89870#Comment_89870

pornography (pɔːˈnɒgrǝfɪ) n 1 writings, pictures, films, etc., designed to stimulate sexual excitement 2 the production of such material. Sometimes (informal) shortened to porn, porno [c19: from Greek pornographos writing of harlots, from pornē a harlot + graphein to write] > porˈnographer n > pornographic (ˌpɔːnǝˈgræfɪk) adj ˌpornoˈgraphically adv
Collins English dictionary. 2006 (8th ed., Complete & unabridged ed.). Glasgow: HarperCollins.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89870#Comment_89870

Are you guys referring to the painting by Michelangelo and the creation of Adam?

There are also some other painting like Raphael's "Temptation" along with other Creation art and one I noticed for "The Cursing of Cain"

Most folks, myself included, would see this as art illustrating the biblical story. But certainly I agree with the above suggestion that if you are aroused by such artwork, it may be best to hide this resource so it is not in your Library at all.

Blessings

Terry Poperszky

Is it just me or is it Pornography?

Without trying to be trite or offensive, it is just you. I see more "pornographic" images on TV commercials than what I am seeing in this resource. Nudity, is not pornography.

want to display this during the Sunday School hour

I would agree with you, for the most part these would not be appropriate for use in the Pastor's Sermon Power Point. But in appropriate for Sunday morning service, is a long way from pornography. I like my wife in a bathing suit, but would I want her to wear one to Church?

To me this is a disgrace.

Then use your Christian freedom and remove (i.e. hide) the resource.

Please remember much of what we take for granted about Christianity, is not Christianity, but our cultural interpretation of it. As a So. B. I see this all the time in the reaction of people to alcohol, or dancing. Christian's can't do that! When in many cultures, not only can Christians do that, it is expected of them. I had a gentleman from another culture visit my Church and rebuked me for preaching in short sleeves, saying that it was uncomely for a Christian to be so immodest and to bare his arms.

For me it isn't pornography. That said, I still don't find it appropriate to have those automatically included. I just don't want to have the conversation with a member of my congregation or my 12 year old granddaughter (whom we're raising) that it'd trigger if they came up when I started my Bible study.

Basically, this means that when I'm leading our Women's Bible study, I dare not leave Logos set to bring up the home page.

LOGOS: is this where you want to leave us?

I'd like an option to ALWAYS EXCLUDE nudity from my home page. I don't really care whether it's pornography. I don't want it on my home page. Ever.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89863#Comment_89863

We've tried hiding the resource to prevent the images from appearing on the home page, however, that does not work. I've reported this to development. A workaround is to press F5 until the home page is refreshed without the image (or moved it to another page).

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89917#Comment_89917

We've tried hiding the resource to prevent the images from appearing on the home page,

So even if a user hides the resource on his/her installation, the pictures still appear on the home page? I thought hiding a resource removed it from your disk?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89918#Comment_89918

So even if a user hides the resource on his/her installation, the pictures still appear on the home page? I thought hiding a resource removed it from your disk?

I know other parts of the homepage are generated from the Logos servers via RSS feeds, perhaps the book of the day does as well, delivering a snippet of a book based on the books it knows you have in your overall library. It wouldn't know what has or has not been hidden.

George T. Kelley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89863#Comment_89863

I hid the resources, but it still came up.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89917#Comment_89917

Melissa -

I definitely want my brothers and sisters who are offended by this to have the option of excluding these types of images or this entire set, but I also hope that the solution will not exclude the resource as a whole from coming up on the home page for the rest of us.

Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89923#Comment_89923

definitely want my brothers and sisters who are offended by this to have the option of excluding these types of images or this entire set, but I also hope that the solution will not exclude the resource as a whole from coming up on the home page for the rest of us.

I agree with Tom! Nudity by itself need not be pornographic, and for many of us "The Bible and its Story" doesn't really come close - (more quaint than anything!) but naturally one should always be aware of the sensitivities of others.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89923#Comment_89923

Melissa -

I definitely want my brothers and sisters who are offended by this to have the option of excluding these types of images or this entire set, but I also hope that the solution will not exclude the resource as a whole from coming up on the home page for the rest of us.

Tom

Yes, I think hiding any resource should hide it - period. If it still shows at the Home page, it is mistake and it should be corrected by Logos.

F5 is a good solution before that happens. It gives you a fresh page, hopefully a better one [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89923#Comment_89923

Melissa -

I definitely want my brothers and sisters who are offended by this to have the option of excluding these types of images or this entire set, but I also hope that the solution will not exclude the resource as a whole from coming up on the home page for the rest of us.

Tom

I agree with Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89978#Comment_89978

Probably not pornography, but some of us have triggers that disturb our walk. As others have pointed out, we need tools to be able to move those triggers from our life.

Thanks for doing so ASAP.

Blessings,

Floyd

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89982#Comment_89982

Wonder if "Images" could be added to Home Page content customization ?

Quick around idea: uncheck "Show home page at startup" - Logos 4 then opens with last layout - click "Home Page" icon to toggle Home Page and Layout

Keep Smiling

George T. Kelley

Addition:

Some twenty or thirty years ago a young man I was dealing with had an addiction to pornography, back then we said he loved it. He asked me a question, "Why is the things I look at are wrong and the nude pictures in the Bible are OK? He was referring to his parents family Bible that had all the so-called religious pictures in it. My answer was it was not as graphic, but nude is nude. He did not buy it, and I have had similar conversation in my ministry, but I am better armed now. I find it best when dealing with people with this problem is to avoid these kinds of pictures altogether. Yes, I am sorry that I purchased these as part of a suite.

I believe that God's people must strive to be above the appearance of evil as defined by Lost, non-Christians. I would not want my grandchildren, Church members, those whom I am dealing with, etc., to see anything that will hinder them or me on my computer. I do use my computer at church for Sunday School presentations, and occasionally I do look up some scriptures or a commentary that I have not linked while presenting my PowerPoint Presentation. I do not need to be worried that some inappropriate picture pop up on the projector screen. So I use Libronix 3.0g.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89995#Comment_89995

GeorgE,

I do see where you are coming from in that being on a computer connected to the grid can bring all sorts of images to tempt one. I am sure we all recognize that we are all works in progress and God is working individually with each of us. So what one has a conviction of doesn't mean that everyone should be bound by that person's conviction if their walk hasn't reached that point.

With that said, and yes this is a control thing with L4, that we should have an ability to disable graphics (ie. Logos Infographics, or those from other resources) that Logos picks up and puts in the mix. A check box on the Home Page customization would be sufficient for most issues if you are using the Home Page at startup. In the Passage guid and other places that searchout images these should default to not to expand by going in as Morris Proctor discussed the other day (see link: http://blog.logos.com/archives/2010/02/logos_4_collapse_sections_in_guides.html).

Those of us in ministry, which technically is all of us, need to be on a constant vigil to make sure we do not create a stumbling block for a fellow brother or sister in Christ.

So although it wasn't an issue for me. The points brought up by George, Philip, and others have helped to heighten my awareness as it might be interpreted by someone else. Terry you are absolutely right in that their is more subtle and not so subtle porn on regular TV and commercials. For my wife and I we are constantly holding a remote to switch a channel to prevent the kids from seeing it or the ad from a new movie release.

To me these are all signs of the days we live in. It brings Jeremiah to mind and his warnings to Israel.

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89995#Comment_89995

I find it best when dealing with people with this problem is to avoid these kinds of pictures altogether.

Nor should you serve alcoholics wine with dinner.

I believe that God's people must strive to be above the appearance of evil as defined by Lost, non-Christians.

George, you must do what your conscience demands, as well you should.

I hear and read that some so-called churches are going in the "christian pornography" business. How far we have fallen.

But that isn't where your original post went. You condemned the pictures outright labeling them pornography and then went on to defame unnamed christian groups for producing such material.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89995#Comment_89995

Alas, we live in a fallen and broken world. God created the human body beautiful and called all of his creation good -- it wasn't until after the Fall that we became ashamed or embarrassed at the unclothed human form. Some of the great artists whose work appears in "The Bible and Its Story" (Raphael, Michelangelo, Gustave Doré, et al.) are among those who have attempted through their art to restore the human body to its lofty position as a thing of beauty rather than shame and titillation.

I think as a whole we Christians have failed our young people by not teaching them a proper respect and admiration for the human body. When the private parts of Adam and Eve are covered by Post-It notes, as was done in an art textbook at a Christian school that a friend of a friend of mine taught at, it only teaches kids to be exceedingly curious and immature about the human body, and ashamed or self-conscious about their own bodies. Of course the kids peeked underneath the Post-It notes and giggled. If we could just be matter-of-fact about the things God created, teaching that there are appropriate and inappropriate times for certain parts to be shown, I think we'd have less of a problem of people developing pornographic addictions later in life.

Once fallen, of course there is no going back to the time of innocence. Just as God created wine to gladden the heart, but once taken to extremes it can no longer be appreciated even in moderation safely, the same goes with appreciating the nude human form in art. There is a distinction between pornography and nudity in art, but where one draws the line of distinction for oneself depends on one's own weaknesses in that direction, and discernment is necessary. Logos should make it possible for people to block images that might be offensive or tempting to themselves or to the people they are using Logos to teach. And if one is not prepared to teach young people appropriately, or is unaware of one's congregation's own potential weaknesses, it's probably best not to go there.

A friend of mine who teaches at a Classical Christian Academy of Arts for homeschooled children wrote a very good blog post on the subject: http://iambicadmonit.blogspot.com/2010/02/nudity-in-art-in-classroom.html.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89901#Comment_89901

For me it isn't pornography. That said, I still don't find it appropriate to have those automatically included.

This would be my position.

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90031#Comment_90031

For me it isn't pornography. That said, I still don't find it appropriate to have those automatically included.

This would be my position.

Please forgive me, this has not been a good day. But with that said, I don't find it appropriate for others to define what is appropriate for me. God yes, you guys no! For me, this is a bigger issue than Logos and an artist's rendition of a bare mammary glans (stupid forum censor). I live in a city where there are no civic activities on Monday night, because it interferes with the LDS tradition of family home evening. Where the six pack of beer that I buy by law must be bagged so that I do not offend the sensibilities of those who have decreed that drinking alcohol is a sin. If you are so worried, about this content that it can't automatically be included on the home page, then please make the home page blank allowing each one of us to choose what is unoffensive to us. I for one am much more offended by the automatic inclusion of lectionaries than I am these images (My apologies to Ms Smith).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90038#Comment_90038

I for one am much more offended by the automatic inclusion of lectionaries than I am these images (My apologies to Ms Smith).

Hey, if a lectionary was fine for Jesus, it's fine for me. If you want to go another direction, that's not my problem. Last time I read Revelation, it didn't specify a lectionary for the Divine Liturgy.[:D]

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90041#Comment_90041

Hey, if a lectionary was fine for Jesus, it's fine for me. If you want to go another direction, that's not my problem. Last time I read Revelation, it didn't specify a lectionary for the Divine Liturgy.

Donkeys were fine for our Lord as well, I will stick with my Honda Element. BTW, thank you for taking my comment with humor.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90044#Comment_90044

Since this topic has been brought up, I'd love for Logos to include an option so we blank out, censor, or just keep off the main page these passages from the Bible:

Ezekiel 23:19-20

Isaiah 36:12

Malachi 2:3

Judges 19:24-25

Genesis 38:9

Isaiah 20:2-4

Don't even get me started on the Song of Songs!

The last thing on my homepage that I want to see is the erotica, sex stories, and fetishes of the ancient Israelites! [:|]

[:P]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90087#Comment_90087

Since this topic has been brought up, I'd love for Logos to include an option so we blank out, censor, or just keep off the main page these passages from the Bible:

Ezekiel 23:19-20

Isaiah 36:12

Malachi 2:3

Judges 19:24-25

Genesis 38:9

Isaiah 20:2-4

Don't even get me started on the Song of Songs!

The last thing on my homepage that I want to see is the erotica, sex stories, and fetishes of the ancient Israelites!

Yeah, and I Samuel 25:22 (KJV). As a little playmate of mine who was better brought up than I was at about age 3 said, "That's a bad word! That's a bad word!" (when I said some word referring to bodily excretions).

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90090#Comment_90090

Yeah, and I Samuel 25:22 (KJV).

Let's not forget Lot and his daughters. Yea, I'm too lazy to look it up [:P]

Is it just me or is it Pornography?

I think it might just be you. Sorry, if we're looking at the same "The Bible and its Story" (The Disciples Baffled) picture...try as I might, I just don't see pornography.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89995#Comment_89995

I do use my computer at church for Sunday School presentations, and occasionally I do look up some scriptures or a commentary that I have not linked while presenting my PowerPoint Presentation. I do not need to be worried that some inappropriate picture pop up on the projector screen.

Sorry, I just don't get it. What in the world are you talking about? You create the PowerPoint, so you know what is in your PowerPoint. Nothing is going to just "pop up" in your PowerPoint presentation. Again, I just don't know what you are saying--you're not making sense (with all due respect).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90113#Comment_90113

Is it just me or is it Pornography?

I think it might just be you. Sorry, if we're looking at the same "The Bible and its Story" (The Disciples Baffled) picture...try as I might, I just don't see pornography.

Maybe he was looking at The Temptation, The Curse Upon Mankind, The Expulsion from Eden, The Cursing of Cain, etc. I personally don't think even these are pornographic any more than National Geographic's pictures of tribal women who cover only their lower parts are pornographic. People in their cultures are not titillated by exposed breasts. People dressed differently back in biblical times. Even when Adam and Eve covered their "private parts" out of shame, it was probably just the genital area. We can't know for sure of course, but it wasn't until much more recently that the female breast was seen as stirring up sexual lust rather than merely an appendage for feeding an infant. People weren't so squeamish about needing women to cover up when breastfeeding until more recently. I think you can make an interesting comparison culturally by thinking about how conservative Islamic cultures can't stand it when women don't cover their hair, because that is sexually arousing to their men. We Christians wouldn't call it pornography or even particularly sensual to have a picture of a beautiful woman (fully clothed in modest dress) with loose long hair, but Islamic fundamentalists would.

So it really boils down to a cultural perception. We all need to respect that we come from different sub-cultures even within the Christian West. Some are more conservative about what they can allow themselves to see (some watch no movies, or at least nothing but G-rated ones). Nobody should impose their own culture on each other, but we all need to make allowances for those with more conservative viewpoints to have access to the restrictions they need in order to live faithfully according to their own personal values, as long as they don't force everyone to live by those restrictions.

As for Logos, an option to turn off all but "G-rated" images could be made available without forcing it on everyone. Terry, I don't think that such an option would violate your freedom to have whatever pictures you want show up in the Home Page. It would be just like Internet filtering software, which is an option chosen by people who have more restrictive views about what they want to see online; it's not the default for all web browsing. Now if we lived in China and all had our Internet or Logos resources filtered out to show only those things deemed appropriate by someone on high, that would be censorship. I prefer to have the freedom to make those choices myself. And I do chose to avoid 99% of what the original poster would consider pornography. But I don't mind studying famous art works that depict the nude female breast. Once it borders on being invasive or degrading to the woman, then I'd draw the line.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90116#Comment_90116

Oh cool, I just searched for this book and found out that I have it in my print library! The name was a little different, so I didn't recognize it at first.

I found it in a Half Price Book Store last year and thought, because of all the pictures, it would be an enjoyable Bible that our future children might start off looking at because of all the pictures.

Here's a link to some of the pictures if anyone wants to browse them: http://associate.com/photos/The-Bible-and-its-Story--1909/

I also found it on Google Books too.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90116#Comment_90116

I do use my computer at church for Sunday School presentations, and occasionally I do look up some scriptures or a commentary that I have not linked while presenting my PowerPoint Presentation. I do not need to be worried that some inappropriate picture pop up on the projector screen.

Sorry, I just don't get it. What in the world are you talking about? You create the PowerPoint, so you know what is in your PowerPoint. Nothing is going to just "pop up" in your PowerPoint presentation. Again, I just don't know what you are saying--you're not making sense (with all due respect).

George, if your concern is with the Home page, then just avoid it altogether. You can customize Logos so that it doesn't bring up the Home Page at startup (and do all your searching for scriptures or commentaries from the main workspace instead of the Home Page, which most of us do anyway, using the Command box and the Search command). Or you can customize the Home page so it doesn't include random excerpts from your library. Just make sure these checkboxes are turned off on the Customize menu at the lower left of your Home Page and you'll avoid all potentially offensive content:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90123#Comment_90123

Oh cool, I just searched for this book and found out that I have it in my print library! The name was a little different, so I didn't recognize it at first.

I found it in a Half Price Book Store last year and thought, because of all the pictures, it would be an enjoyable Bible that our future children might start off looking at because of all the pictures.

Here's a link to all the pictures in it if anyone wants to browse them: http://associate.com/photos/The-Bible-and-its-Story--1909/

Here's another site that shows all the artwork with larger thumbnails so they're easier to see, and they show much higher resolution when you click to expand them: http://www.wcg.org/images/b1/default.htm

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90126#Comment_90126

Wow! My post (four posts up) above was censored either by the forum software or by a Logos employee editing it. Just to let you know, I used the natural word for a part of female anatomy that chickens also have and it converted it into *** in my post above. No, I didn't use the more crude three letter word for that part of the body. Just wanted you all to know that and not think something sinister of me. The three asterisks might have made you think I was using crude language. (Of course some of you might think the other word is crude too; sorry.)

Interestingly, the place where I used that word in the plural was not censored. Probably automated forum software, then...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89938#Comment_89938

Nudity by itself need not be pornographic,

If it were, we'd all be born in clothes.[;)]

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90122#Comment_90122

Terry, I don't think that such an option would violate your freedom to have whatever pictures you want show up in the Home Page.

You are missing my point Rosie. My point was not that I want them, it was don't decide what is appropriate for me. If you are going to censor the home page, then turn it all off and let each one turn on what they do not find offensive.

We already have the option to turn parts of the home page off, I am an adult, I simply used the option that Logos gave us and unchecked a section that I didn't want to see. If something clearly violates God's Word, then Logos shouldn't include it in their product. If it doesn't clearly violate God's Word than those that do not want to view it for whatever reason should just uncheck the box, and quit their whining.

Although I would love to have a check box for displaying Nud ity (or not) on the home page. Just to see the outrage it would cause [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90227#Comment_90227

You are missing my point Rosie. My point was not that I want them, it was don't decide what is appropriate for me. If you are going to censor the home page, then turn it all off and let each one turn on what they do not find offensive.

I'm sorry if any posts I made were taken that way. I trust Logos enough to stay out of the pornography business (how's that for a compliment, Bob). They get to decide what they will deem appropriate for their product short of that. All I am advocating for is the capability to self censor items I would prefer not to have. That simply means that if I hide a resource, 1) That resource is no longer on my hard drive. 2) That resource is no longer used in Cloud applications (e.g. Iphone)

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90236#Comment_90236

I'm sorry if any posts I made were taken that way....All I am advocating for is the capability to self censor items I would prefer not to have.

Phillip, they weren't by me. From my view point, we are expressing our individual desires/concerns/understandings and as we listen to each other we should learn and grow (Iron sharpens iron). BTW, I am advocating that same capability right along side you.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90239#Comment_90239

I'm sorry if any posts I made were taken that way....All I am advocating for is the capability to self censor items I would prefer not to have.

Phillip, they weren't by me. From my view point, we are expressing our individual desires/concerns/understandings and as we listen to each other we should learn and grow (Iron sharpens iron). BTW, I am advocating that same capability right along side you.

hehe...gotta love a forum where you don't have time to read every message :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90243#Comment_90243

Ok, I'm gonna chime in and that's the last word on this!! [;)]

I'm of the opinion that every christian is bound by his/her conscience. What is bad to one...is not bad to another....we have that freedom.

Myself...I don't want to see it and hid it. If I see it on the home page I'll hit F5 until something else comes up...no harm no foul....

You want it....? You won't get an argument from me...

You don't want it? same same...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89917#Comment_89917

We've tried hiding the resource to prevent the images from appearing on the home page, however, that does not work. I've reported this to development. A workaround is to press F5 until the home page is refreshed without the image (or moved it to another page).

Thanks, Melissa!

In the interim, I'll set L4 NOT to open on the home page so I can use L4 with a projector in adults' / kids' Bible studies without fear any ensuing converations...

Again, I don't personally find the images offensive. Nevertheless, I never want to have that conversation with a parent, with an adult, or with a child, just because it was there on the screen with L4 started up...

Thanks for listening!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90038#Comment_90038

I don't find it appropriate for others to define what is appropriate for me. God yes, you guys no!

Agreed... I'm asking for the option. Not censorship.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90087#Comment_90087

Since this topic has been brought up, I'd love for Logos to include an option so we blank out, censor, or just keep off the main page these passages from the Bible:

Ezekiel 23:19-20

Isaiah 36:12

Malachi 2:3

Judges 19:24-25

Genesis 38:9

Isaiah 20:2-4

Don't even get me started on the Song of Songs!

The last thing on my homepage that I want to see is the erotica, sex stories, and fetishes of the ancient Israelites!

[:D] Could you post your sermons on these on YouTube? (Only kidding PLEASE DON'T!)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90022#Comment_90022

hmm... is the Bible pornographic.... the stories can be graphic but all these images were created by man...

and their offense (identification as pornographic) is somewhat dictated by the culture in which they are viewed... though culture shouldn't define morality.... yet it does.

(to stir the pot.....reference the OT, we're not to look upon the uncovering of others. Thru the eyes of the NT all things are legal (a usual attempt at self-justification), yet let not your freedom be a license to sin or bring offense to a brother thereby destroying his/her faith... ooh what’s that bubbling pot?)

My two cents… not worth two cents. [^o)]

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90339#Comment_90339

I can't help myself.....

to stir the pot.....reference the OT, we're not to look upon the uncovering of others.

Reference please? OT is a tad too vague. BTW, are you willing to stipulate that the other OT proscriptions are still valid today?

As for your NT argument, not even close! Unless of course the people on this forum are willing to admit that seeing these pictures in the context of Logos excites lust in them to the point of sin. The Romans 14 argument stipulates that our actions incite those with a lessor faith to do something that they feel is sin and is not blanket permission to impose legalism on others.

Anthony, you need a bigger paddle if you are going to stir this pot.

Actually, I could have helped myself, but I didn't really want to. Besides by going down this path, Anthony tempted me to do something I didn't want to do and so he is guilty as well. [:P]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90398#Comment_90398

As for your NT argument, not even close! Unless of course the people on this forum are willing to admit that seeing these pictures in the context of Logos excites lust in them to the point of sin.

Who are you to say what we may or may not struggle with. If you have not had a problem with pornography, good for you. But those of us who have struggled, know the pain that these pictures can cause. They may be unintentional, but that does not make them any less so.

Beyond that, I am currently sitting in my local Barnes & Noble bookstore - I know nothing of the people around me and have no wish to offend them and drive them away from the church as I do my Bible Study, Don't tell me to use my office - I have none. For me, it is either the kitchen table or a WiFi spot.

Stop being so conceited - just because you are not bothered, says nothing about the rest of us.

Blessings,

Floyd

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90408#Comment_90408

Who are you to say what we may or may not struggle with.

Stop being so conceited - just because you are not bothered, says nothing about the rest of us

Stop being so judgmental, the post was offered in jest, I responded in jest.

But lest there be any misunderstanding about Pornography and the struggle to avoid it:

I work in IT and have for years, and I wrestle on a daily basis with the temptations to view pornography. Because of my profession I have more access to it than most, because of my training I have the ability to bypass the safe guards that many use to resist temptation. Today, I am doing OK, it hasn't always been so. Tomorrow unless I am careful, I will fall AGAIN. God is faithful, even when we are not.

I never dictated what you should have access to, read my posts. What I have been talking about is taking your cultural interpretations of an object of art and making them into God's Word.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90306#Comment_90306

Could you post your sermons on these on YouTube? (Only kidding PLEASE DON'T!)

Bill,

Well, no worries! I've no sermons on these verses on Youtube!

In fact, I don't have any sermons at all!

Pastor Steven Anderson over in Arizona has something like this though! He preaches (rants, actually) from 1 Kings 14:10 and uses it to discuss the current state of manhood in the world, with a few potshots thrown at other Bible translations. [8-)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo3o4nfiG7A

When I first saw it, I thought it was a joke. But sadly, its real. [:'(]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/89917#Comment_89917

I have found a great way of working around the home page at all is to keep it from showing anything and get me to the study and layouts I have saved faster. The clutter of the home page and its resource indulgence is almost to the point of exploitation of the user for marketing pop-Christian media. No, this certainly wasn't Logos's point, but this is what I see.

As far as pornography goes, you make images into what your heart deems them; I have never seen an image make a man do anything just like a gun have never shot anyone but the operator has.

There are trends in society for those that think we should all be prevented from exposure. Man can generally prevent his exposure to certain stimuli; it is a determination of the will. I would not ask others to stop what they are doing without providing the reason for doing so from the Word...else, it is my standard, not God's.

Therefore, I suggest those with problems with images as pornographic in their eyes, seek the Scriptures and prove its detriment to man without going to man's definition. Then those that read those Scriptures will have to make a decision.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/90432#Comment_90432

sadly, its real

Already saw it... ergo my plea NOT to post any more...

I'm going to close my participation on this thread with this post. Logos has already heard us that we want options NOT to include it but also don't want censorship.

In the other thread that strayed into this topic, I was made aware that some found offensive our use of humor to tiptoe around such a delicate topic (which I had interpreted as just our way of trying to discuss the issue without offense).

Out of deference, this is my last word on this thread.

Many blessings to you all....

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