Has the strong US dollar impacted your Logos purchasing habits?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766086#Comment_766086

I think it's a weak Canadian dollar, rather than a strong US one. Here in the UK, we've seen little change over the last year:

The most recent high was $1.71 back in July 2014. It's now $1.53, so that's only 10%, and we're only just below the 7-year average.

Bruce Dunning

I think it's a weak Canadian dollar, rather than a strong US one.

That is probably a more accurate way of saying it. I thought more countries were in the same boat but perhaps not.

William M. Harper

We Yanks don't know when to stop spending [mo]

Allen Browne

Obviously this post is directed as those of us who live outside the US. I'm just wondering how Logos users from other countries have been negatively impacted by the strong US dollar. Personally I live in Canada and it now almost costs an extra $.30 for each dollar spent.

Yes, Bruce: it certainly has moved the marker on what is good value for us here in Australia.

Our AU$ was worth about US$1.08 about 3 years back. This month it fell as low as US$0.69.x. On top of that, I no longer have academic discount, FaithLife has increased prices, and there are plans to add another 10% tax to imports (including downloads like Netflix).

Given all of that, the discounted prices offered by other ebook sellers, and the removal of some key resources from the base packages that made them even worse value, I stopped advocating for people here in Australia to buy Logos Bible Software over a year ago. I still have my library I've built over almost a decade, so there are some things I will continue to buy (such as TDOT), but it the currency difference is certainly a factor in my current and future purchase plans as well as my recommendations to others.

JeremyS

it's a major issue for those outside the u.s. It's now 1.4 usd to every singapore dollar

Jan Krohn

I'm in the fortunate position to receive a USD salary, so resources cost the same for me. Due to the strong USD, a lot of stuff gets cheaper for me though, so that I have some more cash left in my pockets at the end of the month. [:D]

I'm not the big spender on Logos, but over the past year, my Logos purchases have about doubled...

I can see though how this becomes an issue for users especially in Europe, with the weak Euro adding to the pain even more. Especially those who have a payment plan have the negative impact, and have no choice but to accept the increase...

DBR

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766168#Comment_766168

I am a missionary in Uganda. My salary is in US dollars, but in the past two years the value that I get exchanging to Ugandan shillings has increased by 30%. Since my money is going that much further, I find that I have more money in my budget for Logos resources, so it does effect me indirectly.

It only works when I am buying though. I sold a car for 75% of what I bought it for in Ugandan shillings, but barely made a half in US dollars. It is amazing how things that are completely out of our control effect our lives so much.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766177#Comment_766177

I have been purchasing less for that reason...

-dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766125#Comment_766125

Our AU$ was worth about US$1.08 about 3 years back. This month it fell as low as US$0.69.x.

https://www.insideretail.com.au/blog/2015/09/23/dollar-lower-amid-risk-off-trade/

As a fellow Aussie this is definitely having an impact upon my purchases. The amount I have to payback on my payment plan each month has increased significantly over the past year without me having extra to show for it - the USD amount remains constant but the amount that comes out of my bank account in AUD has increased.

and there are plans to add another 10% tax to imports (including downloads like Netflix).

https://www.insideretail.com.au/blog/2015/08/21/gst-set-to-apply-to-offshore-goods/

This will only add to the pain if it goes ahead as planned....and the combination of the two factors will impact upon what package I purchase when Logos 7 arrives at then end of next year if Logos sticks with the schedule. If they moved that schedule to releasing Logos 7 this year I might well be just looking a cross-grade type upgrade option - but I am blessed with what I have currently own so if it is to be then so it will.

This imports tax change is scheduled to happen July 2017 but with change in leadership of the nation - the some are pushing for this to happen sooner.

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766184#Comment_766184

and there are plans to add another 10% tax to imports (including downloads like Netflix).

https://www.insideretail.com.au/blog/2015/08/21/gst-set-to-apply-to-offshore-goods/

This will only add to the pain if it goes ahead as planned....and the combination of the two factors will impact upon what package I purchase when Logos 7 arrives at then end of next year if Logos sticks with the schedule. If they moved that schedule to releasing Logos 7 this year I might well be just looking a cross-grade type upgrade option - but I am blessed with what I have currently own so if it is to be then so it will.

This imports tax change is scheduled to happen July 2017 but with change in leadership of the nation - the some are pushing for this to happen sooner.

That sales tax for virtual goods has been in place in the EU for some years now, and I've never heard that Logos passes it on to their customers. The prices they display are end prices, just as EU users are used to to their online shopping. I assume they have some backoffice process to pay EU taxes to the respective tax authorities.

As I understand from those articles, it will be handled the same in Australia. The vendor will be responsible for taxes, and there's gonna be no way for the AUS government to enforce it.

So why should FL handle foreign sales tax for Australia any different than foreign sales tax for the EU? I'm almost certain, they're not gonna pass it on to their users (especially since it's only 10%, compared to 15 to 30 % in the EU).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766185#Comment_766185

That sales tax for virtual goods has been in place in the EU for some years now, and I've never heard that Logos passes it on to their customers. The prices they display are end prices, just as EU users are used to to their online shopping. I assume they have some backoffice process to pay EU taxes to the respective tax authorities.

As I understand from those articles, it will be handled the same in Australia. The vendor will be responsible for taxes, and there's gonna be no way for the AUS government to enforce it.

So why should FL handle foreign sales tax for Australia any different than foreign sales tax for the EU? I'm almost certain, they're not gonna pass it on to their users (especially since it's only 10%, compared to 15 to 30 % in the EU).

You are correct in that the Australian Government probably wouldn't be able to enforce it, and the amount extra tax revenue they would raise from Faithlife sales to Australians would be fairly insignificant. I think there would be much bigger fish they will be encouraging to comply. I can't assume that Faithlife policy would be on the topic but do take note of your comments in regards to the EU experience. I don't think it would be in FL interest to ask us to pay an extra 10% and then have to hand that money over to the ATO (Aust. Tax Office) and likely to lead us to spend less money with them - but this is in the pipeline all the same and until it all comes into play I'm not going to assume I won't have to pay it on my Logos purchases

Rev A W Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766196#Comment_766196

Yes indeed! Our NZ$ is only worth 63 cents US now. Next year, like Australia, online purchases will be liable for our Goods and Services Tax, which will add another 15% to each purchase.

In the old days, when Logos was marketed by the Bible Society, the manager had been able to arrange a generous deal for NZ Logos users, making it approximately dollar for dollar then. Those were the good old days, also before retirement, so I was able to buy big.

So really appreciate the specials and freebies which now make up the bulk of my buying.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766196#Comment_766196

I can't assume that Faithlife policy would be on the topic but do take note of your comments in regards to the EU experience. I don't think it would be in FL interest to ask us to pay an extra 10% and then have to hand that money over to the ATO (Aust. Tax Office) and likely to lead us to spend less money with them - but this is in the pipeline all the same and until it all comes into play I'm not going to assume I won't have to pay it on my Logos purchases

The bottom line is that the Australian Government has no jurisdiction over Faithlife as they're not an Australian company. It's not that they can't enforce the law, it's that have no right to create a law that applies outside Australia. (The same is true in the EU, as others have said.)

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766184#Comment_766184

and there are plans to add another 10% tax to imports (including downloads like Netflix).

https://www.insideretail.com.au/blog/2015/08/21/gst-set-to-apply-to-offshore-goods/

Yikes. I just read this article to help understand what is being proposed. I feel your pain if this goes through.

I can also imagine that,if it is successful for the government that other world governments might consider a similar strategy to help balance budgets.

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766104#Comment_766104

I thought more countries were in the same boat

And, you were (still are) right! I live in Asia and I'm experiencing the same issue with the strong us dollar you guys in Canada are.The recent strong US dollar has slowed or stopped me for purchasing as much as I might have.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766210#Comment_766210

The bottom line is that the Australian Government has no jurisdiction over Faithlife as they're not an Australian company. It's not that they can't enforce the law, it's that have no right to create a law that applies outside Australia. (The same is true in the EU, as others have said.)

This is not actually correct, the UK (for instance) has a right to tax supplies into the UK however it wants, it is purely the collection problem that we cannot send the bailiffs to Bellingham to collect what they owe us that prevents us enforcing a tax liability. Faithlife should be charging VAT under current legislation, they do not purely because there is nothing the UK can do about it.

As accounting for VAT is a duty for the supplier, not the purchaser, I do not see this as morally a problem for me but the conduct of Faithlife here is potentially problematic.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766232#Comment_766232

Some years ago I started to feel that Dollar might go high compared to Euro. At that time I made a major investment.

SineNomine

I would have upgraded my Verbum base package and probably bought the Orthodox Library Builder if the Canadian dollar was where it was not so long ago.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766232#Comment_766232

This is not actually correct, the UK (for instance) has a right to tax supplies into the UK however it wants,

They have the right to tax UK importers (e.g. consumers), but not the right to tax US exporters who don't have a presence within a British jurisdiction. Neither do they have a right to ask US exporters to collect a tax on consumers on their behalf.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766285#Comment_766285

This is not actually correct, the UK (for instance) has a right to tax supplies into the UK however it wants,

They have the right to tax UK importers (e.g. consumers), but not the right to tax US exporters who don't have a presence within a British jurisdiction. Neither do they have a right to ask US exporters to collect a tax on consumers on their behalf.

I think that you are missing the impact of the EU place of supply VAT regulations which can be seen here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers

For clarity see the flowchart at

https://whitehall-admin.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf

The key change is that the supply location is now taken to be location of the consumer. HMRC will argue that this was always the case and the new laws just clarify matters but it is beyond argument that the rules now mean that VAT should be charged. The rules are quite clear.

Ted Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766292#Comment_766292

I think that you are missing the impact of the EU place of supply VAT regulations which can be seen here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers/vat-businesses-supplying-digital-services-to-private-consumers

For clarity see the flowchart at

https://whitehall-admin.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/415931/VAT_MOSS_Flow_chart_FSB_edit_V1_0.pdf

The key change is that the supply location is now taken to be location of the consumer. HMRC will argue that this was always the case and the new laws just clarify matters but it is beyond argument that the rules now mean that VAT should be charged. The rules are quite clear.

Thanks for the info, this looks like a recent change in the VAT rules.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766292#Comment_766292

I think that you are missing the impact of the EU place of supply VAT regulations which can be seen here

I'm not missing that at all. It changes nothing for business that are outside the EU's jurisdiction. I know what the rules are. But the EU can make all the rules they like, but they can't apply them outside the EU, unless they reach an agreement with other nation-states to apply those rules for them.

As a corollary, the UK might declare certain websites to be breaking UK law (filesharing, for example). But they can't take the site down — because if they have no jurisdiction over the companies hosting the sites. UK rules only apply to goods, services, people and businesses in the UK. EU rules only apply to goods, services, people and business in the EU.

Now if the VAT rules were changed to make customers responsible for making sure they pay, that would be a different thing all together. But as it stands, they simply don't have jurisdiction to make those rules meaningful.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766361#Comment_766361

I think that you are missing the impact of the EU place of supply VAT regulations which can be seen here

I'm not missing that at all. It changes nothing for business that are outside the EU's jurisdiction. I know what the rules are. But the EU can make all the rules they like, but they can't apply them outside the EU, unless they reach an agreement with other nation-states to apply those rules for them.

As a corollary, the UK might declare certain websites to be breaking UK law (filesharing, for example). But they can't take the site down — because if they have no jurisdiction over the companies hosting the sites. UK rules only apply to goods, services, people and businesses in the UK. EU rules only apply to goods, services, people and business in the EU.

Now if the VAT rules were changed to make customers responsible for making sure they pay, that would be a different thing all together. But as it stands, they simply don't have jurisdiction to make those rules meaningful.

There is the moral question of obeying laws even when you can avoid enforcement for breaking them.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766366#Comment_766366

There is the moral question of obeying laws even when you can avoid enforcement for breaking them.

If I made a rule that said, "Anyone disagreeing with me on a Logos forum must pay me £10", you wouldn't face moral questions for breaking that law. I'd face moral questions for threatening people when I've got no right to do so and no jurisdiction over you or the forum. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766210#Comment_766210

The bottom line is that the Australian Government has no jurisdiction over Faithlife as they're not an Australian company. It's not that they can't enforce the law, it's that have no right to create a law that applies outside Australia. (The same is true in the EU, as others have said.)

Somewhat inappropriate use, but the 'saving grace' for us Aussies and Kiwis and others in similar situation is that since this is a downloadable product we can not have a parcel collection tax imposed on us for Logos purchases - which is one way Governments can go with physical goods purchased overseas if they want to impose a GST/VAT - that is unless we buy the t-shirt or coffee mug - a new reason to be thankful we no longer have to wait for the disk in the mail....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766380#Comment_766380

I will not comment further as I am constrained by my current position, but I do not think that the command was "render unto Caesar" unless you can get away with it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766376#Comment_766376

There is the moral question of obeying laws even when you can avoid enforcement for breaking them.

If I made a rule that said, "Anyone disagreeing with me on a Logos forum must pay me £10", you wouldn't face moral questions for breaking that law. I'd face moral questions for threatening people when I've got no right to do so and no jurisdiction over you or the forum.

I don't think Paul had this scenario in mind when gave instructions regarding being subject to Governing authorities - as a general rule (Rom 13:1) but that said I don't think he had in mind that we , individuals or corporations for that matter should be subject to every Governing authority that existed but only to those appointed over us. So unless the US Government made it law for US corporations to collect taxes on behalf of other Governments then I'm don't think it really is a moral question for Logos or what Mark said....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766197#Comment_766197

Yes indeed! Our NZ$ is only worth 63 cents US now. Next year, like Australia, online purchases will be liable for our Goods and Services Tax, which will add another 15% to each purchase.

In the old days, when Logos was marketed by the Bible Society, the manager had been able to arrange a generous deal for NZ Logos users, making it approximately dollar for dollar then. Those were the good old days, also before retirement, so I was able to buy big.

So really appreciate the specials and freebies which now make up the bulk of my buying.

Rev Palmer I remember back when we used to have to buy product on disk for Logos there was a NZ company I would sometimes purchase from, forget the name of it, because it worked out cheaper for me on the exchange rates to buy from NZ in some instances than it did from US or my local bookstore. Logos is definitely becoming more expensive for us in this part of the globe.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766210#Comment_766210

The bottom line is that the Australian Government has no jurisdiction over Faithlife as they're not an Australian company. It's not that they can't enforce the law, it's that have no right to create a law that applies outside Australia. (The same is true in the EU, as others have said.)

I know nothing about this particular case but there are government-to-government treaties covering most tax issues including who collects and who receives the taxes. The law does not apply outside of Australia but the governing treaty does.

David J. Wilson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/766386#Comment_766386

To try to get the thread back on the original topic: the most significant impact on my purchases of the significant change in currency exchange rates has been to avoid pre-pubs with tiny discounts. I have seen several cycles of currency swings over the years and my perspective from this part of Canada is that a 5 to 10% discount during a sale or promotion is currently no incentive at all if I have no immediate need for an item and I feel the exchange rate has a good probability of swinging significantly closer to par before I would run out of key items (that I already have in my list of books that I need to read in the short term). From this end the items on sale or pre-pub discounts of less than 10% would likely be 20% less expensive later at full price. So yes the current difference in exchange rates has had a significant impact for me.

Free books and the 99c and $1.99 offering remain great value for most people whatever the exchange rate, so Logos and Vyrso still have a good way of keeping customers engaged while we await better times.