Original Languages Library
What ever happened to the Original Languages Library? I could use some help coming up with a purchasing strategy that would give me all of the resources that were in the old Original Languages Library and give me access to the additional functionality that seems to only be offered in the Gold + Libraries, while at the same time side-stepping as much fluff material that I have absolutely zero use for and cringe at the idea of paying for.
The Starter Package has only a literal handful of resources that I'm even remotely interested in, for example. It would be a complete waste of money for me to pay $30 for it. The Bronze package is not much better, from my personal use perspective.
My purchases are budgeted and I do not have a "book allowance" that some of the other Bible teachers here may enjoy the benefit of, but rather work a day job, similar to Peter and Paul, and I have to come up with the money out of my own pocket, so value is an important aspect and concern.
If there is an angle that I can get some direction towards on how to map out a purchasing strategy to build a formidable Original Languages library, I'd appreciate some assistance in getting a handle on that angle.
Thank you,
Michael
Comments
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Like you I was a proud owner of the Original Languages Library. It concentrated on good quality material without the fluff of the other packages. And like you I am an amateur - I study it for the love of it - and have no budget to cover my book habit.
One good thing about Logos is that if you like what you have, you can keep it. And so I did for a long time. I eventually added a core update for some datasets for 5.0, and just this week finally got some new 6.0 datasets. The features I was used to still worked in 6.0 more or less like 4.0. I was just missing some of the new reports etc.
The Core upgrades are rather focused on the new datasets and a few resources to make them work. Take a look at https://www.logos.com/product/45040/logos-6-core-crossgrade and see what it would give you - and the cost. It may not fit your budget. It didn't fit mine for a long time. But it will update your old library with some of the new features.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Ken McGuire said:
Like you I was a proud owner of the Original Languages Library. It concentrated on good quality material without the fluff of the other packages. And like you I am an amateur - I study it for the love of it - and have no budget to cover my book habit.
One good thing about Logos is that if you like what you have, you can keep it. And so I did for a long time. I eventually added a core update for some datasets for 5.0, and just this week finally got some new 6.0 datasets. The features I was used to still worked in 6.0 more or less like 4.0. I was just missing some of the new reports etc.
The Core upgrades are rather focused on the new datasets and a few resources to make them work. Take a look at https://www.logos.com/product/45040/logos-6-core-crossgrade and see what it would give you - and the cost. It may not fit your budget. It didn't fit mine for a long time. But it will update your old library with some of the new features.
I certainly appreciate your help, Ken, but I no longer own that Original Languages Library as I gave it and a whole lot of other Logos resources away in my disdain over the quality of the Logos program at about the commencement of Logos 4. My first Logos library came on floppy disks, which I still have. I have the CDs for the Logos 3 Original Languages Library here that are Libronix and would gladly fork over another $300 to get a valid key for it to use for upgrade purposes, but I doubt that Logos would offer me that. If they would, I'd certainly be a happy camper.
Thanks again,
Michael
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Michael Miles said:
I certainly appreciate your help, Ken, but I no longer own that Original Languages Library... My first Logos library came on floppy disks, which I still have. I have the CDs for the Logos 3 Original Languages Library here that are Libronix
There is a Biblical Languages package but you need to be part of the Academic Program. Speak with Faithlife Sales about your old Original Languages library because they can licence older product with sufficient proof and will provide good direction with Logos 6 libraries and crossgrades (especially in regard to your Logos 7 query).
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Michael Miles said:
I certainly appreciate your help, Ken, but I no longer own that Original Languages Library... My first Logos library came on floppy disks, which I still have. I have the CDs for the Logos 3 Original Languages Library here that are Libronix
There is a Biblical Languages package but you need to be part of the Academic Program. Speak with Faithlife Sales about your old Original Languages library because they can licence older product with sufficient proof and will provide good direction with Logos 6 libraries and crossgrades (especially in regard to your Logos 7 query).
Hello Dave,
It is a crying shame that the Original Languages package is not offered to regular joes like me, even at a higher price. I have contacted a sales representative regarding licensing my old Original Languages package, but he cannot help me and asked that I reach out to Customer Service on my own to see if they can do anything for me. If I could re-license that, then I would have at least a foundation to build towards what I would like to have as far as study tools in Logos. We'll see how that goes. The old Logos 3 Original Languages Library was a good deal and that is why I purchased it.
Thanks for your help, Dave. I appreciate it.
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Michael Miles said:
Hello Dave,
It is a crying shame that the Original Languages package is not offered to regular joes like me, even at a higher price. I have contacted a sales representative regarding licensing my old Original Languages package, but he cannot help me and asked that I reach out to Customer Service on my own to see if they can do anything for me. If I could re-license that, then I would have at least a foundation to build towards what I would like to have as far as study tools in Logos. We'll see how that goes. The old Logos 3 Original Languages Library was a good deal and that is why I purchased it.
Thanks for your help, Dave. I appreciate it.
I've had to contact Customer Service regarding older product before, and they were extremely helpful. I anticipate that you will have your older package available to you after you work with them.
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Virgil Buttram said:
It is a crying shame that the Original Languages package is not offered to regular joes like me, even at a higher price.
As I see it, this is a good idea and could be offered different sizes S, M, L, XL as many other packages/collections/metalcolor/whatever. They could do it before this Christmas.
The lowest package could have Greek only, just to learn enough to be dangerous.
Medium could add Hebrew and Latin
The highest could add Syriac/Aramaic, Coptic, Ethiopic, Gothic, etc?
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Veli Voipio said:
The lowest package could have Greek only, just to learn enough to be dangerous.
Actually, Logos/faithlife through the Noet brand offers something like this called the, Biblical Greek Research Library (32. vols)
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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Dit you have an old Libronix Account?
I had SESB and Libronix...and I even lose my Email Adress. But they just addet my Libronix Account to Logos, so I could use all my Recources in Logos 6. It must be possible for your Logos 3 and 4 Stuff also? I worked along time with my old Libary from Libronix in Logos 5 and 6 Core engine.Hope this helps
Sascha
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by the Way this Way above dit'nt cost me anything!
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You can get it here - https://www.logos.com/basepackages#special-interest
Edit - Sorry it looks like you can but you can't...
You might also like - https://www.logos.com/product/55086/stuttgart-scholarly-editions-old-and-new-testament
Perhaps a basic base package with the above and a couple of good grammars like:
https://www.logos.com/product/34167/greek-grammar-beyond-the-basics
https://www.logos.com/product/698/a-biblical-hebrew-reference-grammar
Hope that helps.
John
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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Caveats:
1. Not sure how Faithlife feels about this practice. I suspect they wouldn't want you to use it.
2. IF it works (and it may not) and IF you have titles already purchasing this way as I recall doesn't take advantage of dynamic pricing. SO if it includes hypothetical book A (which costs lets say 100$ as part of the BP), and you already have book A, then instead of paying 100$ less for ownership of book A, you'll pay full price.However if you're ok with both of those then as I recall, if someone who doesn't own the package, but does have the academic discount pastes the link to the OLL base package it can be purchased. I personally wouldn't purchase through this method. Nor would I share the link. Nor do I know if this will still work or not. But there it is.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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The Logos Sales Representative that I had brought this question to and has been steering me towards a Gold package, indicated that he could no nothing at all to help me and that I needed to contact Customer Service on my own to see if they could sell me a new key for the Logos 3 Original Languages Library. This morning, after several email exchanges, I was told by Customer Service via email that I could purchase a new key for this Logos 3 library through my Sales Representative. This representative would not even forward my initial request to CS. So, this morning I fired him as my sales representative. These people work on commission it appears, and I feel like my request was probably not worth lifting a finger on his end.
I also pay very close spiritual attention to how I am dealt with in matters such as this and I'm not yet getting a good vibe from Logos. And I told them so.
Thank you all for your responses. I need to prayerfully consider this. I have very substantial original language resources in Accordance and BibleWorks and was interested in the Logos library only to be able to share notes and resource links with study colleagues and to perhaps get other perspectives. I don't actually need it and if it's just a constant churn of hassles, I really don't need it. The Stuttgart Original Languages Module at BibleWorks might be a better investment and far, far less exasperating, it would appear.
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I'm not sure of all the specifics with your situation, but Logos is big on once you purchase a resource, it's yours. You shouldn't have to repurchase a "key" to unlock an old resource. I do know that you can contact the company president directly if you are unsatisfied. He has posted both his email and phone number on the forums several times. I don't have it in front of me, but maybe someone else does and can post it for you.
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Ronald Quick said:
You shouldn't have to repurchase a "key" to unlock an old resource.
Perhaps you missed a comment Michael made earlier in this thread.
[quote] I no longer own that Original Languages Library as I gave it and a whole lot of other Logos resources away in my disdain over the quality of the Logos program at about the commencement of Logos 4.
It appears that he was wanting to reactivate a resource that now belongs to someone else.
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Jack Caviness said:Ronald Quick said:
You shouldn't have to repurchase a "key" to unlock an old resource.
Perhaps you missed a comment Michael made earlier in this thread.
[quote] I no longer own that Original Languages Library as I gave it and a whole lot of other Logos resources away in my disdain over the quality of the Logos program at about the commencement of Logos 4.
It appears that he was wanting to reactivate a resource that now belongs to someone else.
This is precisely what I want to do. It should possibly prove to be more economical than the current offerings that cover the same scope.
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Ronald Quick said:
I'm not sure of all the specifics with your situation, but Logos is big on once you purchase a resource, it's yours. You shouldn't have to repurchase a "key" to unlock an old resource. I do know that you can contact the company president directly if you are unsatisfied. He has posted both his email and phone number on the forums several times. I don't have it in front of me, but maybe someone else does and can post it for you.
I started with Logos when it shipped on floppy disks. I had amassed a pretty fair library at about the time Logos 3 came to be before I even purchased the Original Languages Library. With the constant bugs between versions 3 & 4 I gave away my complete Logos collection because it seemed like everything was in a massive foul state with far more emphasis being placed on new applications for different devices and new features, while old features were being ditched and the bugs were seemingly seldom fixed. I was trying to purchase a new key for an old package that I still have all of the media here for. I have a pile of old Logos floppies and CDs that are absolutely ancient.
I had to create an entirely new account with Logos recently, of my own doing, because remnants of my previous licensed resources were being pushed to me on fresh Logos engine installs if I used my old account.
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Jack Caviness said:Ronald Quick said:
You shouldn't have to repurchase a "key" to unlock an old resource.
Perhaps you missed a comment Michael made earlier in this thread.
[quote] I no longer own that Original Languages Library as I gave it and a whole lot of other Logos resources away in my disdain over the quality of the Logos program at about the commencement of Logos 4.
It appears that he was wanting to reactivate a resource that now belongs to someone else.
You're right. I missed an earlier post. [:)]
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Michael Miles said:
I gave away my complete Logos collection because it seemed like everything was in a massive foul state with far more emphasis being placed on new applications for different devices and new features, while old features were being ditched and the bugs were seemingly seldom fixed. I was trying to purchase a new key for an old package that I still have all of the media here for. I have a pile of old Logos floppies and CDs that are absolutely ancient.
Comment: Why do you think that Logos will sell you a new key for the old disks that you have? You state that "I gave away my complete Logos collection" BUT you kept the media. The media no longer belongs to you. It belongs to who ever you gave the "complete Logos collection" to.
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David Ames said:Michael Miles said:
I gave away my complete Logos collection because it seemed like everything was in a massive foul state with far more emphasis being placed on new applications for different devices and new features, while old features were being ditched and the bugs were seemingly seldom fixed. I was trying to purchase a new key for an old package that I still have all of the media here for. I have a pile of old Logos floppies and CDs that are absolutely ancient.
Comment: Why do you think that Logos will sell you a new key for the old disks that you have? You state that "I gave away my complete Logos collection" BUT you kept the media. The media no longer belongs to you. It belongs to who ever you gave the "complete Logos collection" to.
I don't think that. I ASKED that.
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I just now got another email from Customer Service that indicates that none of the previous correspondence over the week was read at all before pressing SEND. I told them that I was no longer interested in this.
I'll just piece meal odd resources that I can use in my studies that only Logos offers and keep my nose in Accordance and BibleWorks. The customer service at those two companies are excellent and people actually read your emails before responding. I'm glad that I found out about this before I bought a large package. That was part of the purpose of my inquiry about obtaining a new key to the Logos 3 Original Languages Library. I gave them that to see what happened. I got my answer and it cost me nothing.
[Y]
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FWIW & FYI - I'm no longer following this message thread.
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I suggest emailing Bob@faithlife.com.Michael Miles said:I just now got another email from Customer Service that indicates that none of the previous correspondence over the week was read at all before pressing SEND. I told them that I was no longer interested in this.
I'll just piece meal odd resources that I can use in my studies that only Logos offers and keep my nose in Accordance and BibleWorks. The customer service at those two companies are excellent and people actually read your emails before responding. I'm glad that I found out about this before I bought a large package. That was part of the purpose of my inquiry about obtaining a new key to the Logos 3 Original Languages Library. I gave them that to see what happened. I got my answer and it cost me nothing.
I had an infuriating exchange with them a while back too. They - HE - NEEDS to know whats going on with customer circus. They eventually had a guy call me, and he fixed it for me, but it took a dozen emails back and forth from CS, an email to Bob, and a call from a guy in charge in CSL2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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[quote]
I suggest emailing Bob@faithlife.com.
I had an infuriating exchange with them a while back too. They - HE - NEEDS to know whats going on with customer circus. They eventually had a guy call me, and he fixed it for me, but it took a dozen emails back and forth from CS, an email to Bob, and a call from a guy in charge in CSI sort of doubt that Bob cares either. My wife was so elated that I was NOT going to buy another Logos package that she told me to go buy a new MacBook Pro or iMac and some extra resources for Accordance and BibleWorks, along with a Windows 10 Pro license to Bootcamp things. You have to buy at least a Gold base package to even get into real Bible Study material. The fluff and traditions of men that just cloud up the Truth make up a big chunk of the Logos base packages, but if you want all of the special Logos trinkets that they refuse to sell without a massive purchase, then you need to open your wallet. I realize that this is a business, but the customer service is asleep at the wheel and the software is really buggy and slow and it never seems to improve at all. When I first bought into Libronix, the idea was that you built a library and the reader would always be free, but improved. It turned out, years later, that the "engine" is free, but what was the reader has morphed into a cash cow in addition to the resources. When I get a questionnaire when I opened a new account and 90% of the questions are fishing to see if I have a "book allowance" as a Pastor that I can throw at Logos, it makes me think that the marketing has taken a greedy stance. That's my opinion, and has been for quite some time now.
I'll just use Logos as a tool and purchase the oddball stuff that helps me in my studies and teachings that work towards finding Truth. Logos probably doesn't even market much along these lines, but rather caters towards the Churchianity and Listening to Men Over Listening to God crowd that warm pews and relate for an hour on how one verse taken out of context has something to do with the Pastor's uncle's lawnmower.
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Michael Miles said:
[quote]
I suggest emailing Bob@faithlife.com.
I had an infuriating exchange with them a while back too. They - HE - NEEDS to know whats going on with customer circus. They eventually had a guy call me, and he fixed it for me, but it took a dozen emails back and forth from CS, an email to Bob, and a call from a guy in charge in CSI sort of doubt that Bob cares either. My wife was so elated that I was NOT going to buy another Logos package that she told me to go buy a new MacBook Pro or iMac and some extra resources for Accordance and BibleWorks, along with a Windows 10 Pro license to Bootcamp things. You have to buy at least a Gold base package to even get into real Bible Study material. The fluff and traditions of men that just cloud up the Truth make up a big chunk of the Logos base packages, but if you want all of the special Logos trinkets that they refuse to sell without a massive purchase, then you need to open your wallet. I realize that this is a business, but the customer service is asleep at the wheel and the software is really buggy and slow and it never seems to improve at all. When I first bought into Libronix, the idea was that you built a library and the reader would always be free, but improved. It turned out, years later, that the "engine" is free, but what was the reader has morphed into a cash cow in addition to the resources. When I get a questionnaire when I opened a new account and 90% of the questions are fishing to see if I have a "book allowance" as a Pastor that I can throw at Logos, it makes me think that the marketing has taken a greedy stance. That's my opinion, and has been for quite some time now.
I'll just use Logos as a tool and purchase the oddball stuff that helps me in my studies and teachings that work towards finding Truth. Logos probably doesn't even market much along these lines, but rather caters towards the Churchianity and Listening to Men Over Listening to God crowd that warm pews and relate for an hour on how one verse taken out of context has something to do with the Pastor's uncle's lawnmower.
I think you might be surprised. I had an issue with something I purchased off amazon. It apparently shouldn't have been sold. Customer circus didn't read anything I sent them, and then said some things that were personally very insulting.
One email to Bob, and the customer service manager called me back (within about 3 minutes of sending the email), and explained the situation, explained that the real problem was the person that sold me the title wasn't the person that owned it, and without the permission of the person that owned it they couldn't do anything for me. The CS manager then activated the product I had purchased on ebay on my account for me, and told me to have a nice day (~12 new titles).
Bob cares... he goes above and beyond - and empowers his employees to go above and beyond. Once I understood the hang up, I told the manager not to worry about activating it on my account that I didn't want anything I didn't rightfully own.... but they did it any way. My experiences with Dan have been very positive as well.
While I think CS may have an employee (or perhaps two) that needs some remediation, I KNOW the company over all does care.
Also - the newest datasets are based upon resources, which have licenses and royalties that must be paid. I read somewhere that in general there is about a 10% profit margin on the things they sell, so if it costs you 500$, 450 of that is going into royalties, and keeping the lights on.
Once you've been around a while, the cost of the new base packages becomes less expensive. One of the BP's I purchased cost me 6$ - I'm not Lutheran, but the Lutheran Platinum BP cost me 44.69 (ish) the other day.
Enjoy your new Mac! I'd have one, but I've put most of my discretionary spending money, and all of my budgeted money into logos for a couple years now and definitely do not regret my decision to do so. its been a tremendous blessing to me. I hope you get as much from the other products you've chosen!
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
I think you might be surprised. I had an issue with something I purchased off amazon. It apparently shouldn't have been sold. Customer circus didn't read anything I sent them, and then said some things that were personally very insulting.
One email to Bob, and the customer service manager called me back (within about 3 minutes of sending the email), and explained the situation, explained that the real problem was the person that sold me the title wasn't the person that owned it, and without the permission of the person that owned it they couldn't do anything for me. The CS manager then activated the product I had purchased on ebay on my account for me, and told me to have a nice day (~12 new titles).
Bob cares... he goes above and beyond - and empowers his employees to go above and beyond. Once I understood the hang up, I told the manager not to worry about activating it on my account that I didn't want anything I didn't rightfully own.... but they did it any way. My experiences with Dan have been very positive as well.
While I think CS may have an employee (or perhaps two) that needs some remediation, I KNOW the company over all does care.
Also - the newest datasets are based upon resources, which have licenses and royalties that must be paid. I read somewhere that in general there is about a 10% profit margin on the things they sell, so if it costs you 500$, 450 of that is going into royalties, and keeping the lights on.
Once you've been around a while, the cost of the new base packages becomes less expensive. One of the BP's I purchased cost me 6$ - I'm not Lutheran, but the Lutheran Platinum BP cost me 44.69 (ish) the other day.
Enjoy your new Mac! I'd have one, but I've put most of my discretionary spending money, and all of my budgeted money into logos for a couple years now and definitely do not regret my decision to do so. its been a tremendous blessing to me. I hope you get as much from the other products you've chosen!I just now purchased the New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and the Smith's Bible Dictionary from Logos, just so I could reference them in links from my web page Bible Studies for people that use Logos. Not cheap, but I'll live. For now, I'm just going to purchase resources that I link to in the studies. I'm doing the same for Accordance, BibleWorks, and SwordSearcher. Logos will still get loot out of me, but they will not be my go-to big guns resource. Since I referenced a NIV and the NKJV, I might as well buy and link to those as well. Josephus is probably after that. Then Logos will probably dry up somewhat in my concerns. Oh, I need some Bullinger resources as well. See, they will still eat. Maybe not steak, but that's OK.
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It makes me cringe to buy a NIV, but I made a point with it.
[:)]
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Michael Miles said:David Ames said:Michael Miles said:
I gave away my complete Logos collection because it seemed like everything was in a massive foul state with far more emphasis being placed on new applications for different devices and new features, while old features were being ditched and the bugs were seemingly seldom fixed. I was trying to purchase a new key for an old package that I still have all of the media here for. I have a pile of old Logos floppies and CDs that are absolutely ancient.
Comment: Why do you think that Logos will sell you a new key for the old disks that you have? You state that "I gave away my complete Logos collection" BUT you kept the media. The media no longer belongs to you. It belongs to who ever you gave the "complete Logos collection" to.
I don't think that. I ASKED that.
Hey Brother Mike,
Like you I am a Logos user from back in the 1.6 floppy disk days and have over the years been frustrated at the "bugs" in Logos and the feeling that attention has been laid on new features versus fixing old bugs. However, I determined to hang in there simply because I had so much money invested in Logos that for me to drop them and go somewhere else, I would lose a lot of money. I, too, was a owner of the Original Language Library of version 3 and enjoyed it immensely, and of course still have those resources.
I am afraid, however, that Logos will not be able to help. The key that you had now belongs to someone else and Logos would have to sell you a key to collection that they do not have now, unless you are on an academic staff somewhere. Even if they did, you would have to pay full price for the collection and would probably be better off to purchase another based collection in Logos 6 that had many original language resources in it.
I can say that you would love Logos 6. I did not have any problems with version 3 that you mentioned that you did; but I did have problems with version 4. Version 5 seemed pretty stable , but version 6 and the resources available are tremendous.
Pastor Michael Huffman, Th.A Th.B Th.M
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Michael Miles said:
You have to buy at least a Gold base package to even get into real Bible Study material.
Just to be 100% clear. If you want all the tools that are in Gold, without buying all the resources in Gold, then there is a way. First, buy the base package that you do want. Then, in a second purchase, buy the Feature Crossgrade. The cost of the Feature Crossgrade will be substantially below the $599 SRP if you already own a base package. If you need to get a quote before you buy, then sales will help you with that.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Pastor Michael Huffman said:
Hey Brother Mike,
Like you I am a Logos user from back in the 1.6 floppy disk days and have over the years been frustrated at the "bugs" in Logos and the feeling that attention has been laid on new features versus fixing old bugs. However, I determined to hang in there simply because I had so much money invested in Logos that for me to drop them and go somewhere else, I would lose a lot of money. I, too, was a owner of the Original Language Library of version 3 and enjoyed it immensely, and of course still have those resources.
I am afraid, however, that Logos will not be able to help. The key that you had now belongs to someone else and Logos would have to sell you a key to collection that they do not have now, unless you are on an academic staff somewhere. Even if they did, you would have to pay full price for the collection and would probably be better off to purchase another based collection in Logos 6 that had many original language resources in it.
I can say that you would love Logos 6. I did not have any problems with version 3 that you mentioned that you did; but I did have problems with version 4. Version 5 seemed pretty stable , but version 6 and the resources available are tremendous.
Hello,
Perhaps you read over the part where I got a response from Customer Service indicating that I COULD buy a new key for Logos 3 Original Languages. What put me off this time with Logos is that the sales representative is the only one that can sell me the key and he sent me to Customer Service. Customer Service sent me back to him to purchase the key. He would not lift a finger to deal with Customer Service for me and had me do it myself. After that I got several other responses from Customer Service that were from other people and they were all over the place in things like re-requesting the original key, etc. It was sheer lunacy, with one hand having no clue what the other hand was up to. So, for your information, you supposedly CAN buy a license for the Logos 3 Original Languages. I have the install CDs here (I crammed them back in my shed where they apparently belong) so no old media would have to be dealt with on the side of Logos.
I'm having a synchronization problem with Logos 6 and I just have the "engine". The point that you made about not wanting to leave Logos because of your investment is probably why 75-1/2% of the older customers are still here. I gave mine away. Logos even waived the transfer fee because I gave it all away - and it was much more than the Original Languages Library. I'm buying the bare minimum to use Logos for a very specific purpose, and outside of that I do not have any use for it. Accordance gets my attention these days, and BibleWorks gets fired up when I'm digging deep into the languages and need extra horsepower in that area. I'd need to spend a pile of loot to get anywhere near that level of resources in Logos - and I'd be staring at the synchronization error that I am staring at right now. No, thank you.
Kind regards,
Michael
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Mark Barnes said:Michael Miles said:
You have to buy at least a Gold base package to even get into real Bible Study material.
Just to be 100% clear. If you want all the tools that are in Gold, without buying all the resources in Gold, then there is a way. First, buy the base package that you do want. Then, in a second purchase, buy the Feature Crossgrade. The cost of the Feature Crossgrade will be substantially below the $599 SRP if you already own a base package. If you need to get a quote before you buy, then sales will help you with that.
Hi Mark,
Thank you for that info. I had already pieced that possibility together, but just under $300 for the minimum base package that has almost nothing that I can use is not a temptation to me. Leveling up, I might as well fork over the loot for Gold and skip the crossgrade. The bar to get some aspects of Logos is too high. Bronze doesn't float my boat and Silver barely gets me on the radar. Gold would be the minimum package that would contain resources of any value to me. And there would be a mountain of fluff there that I'd find to be quite irksome, especially since I paid for it and did not need it.
Thanks for the info though...
Michael
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So I had logos 2, and loved it. Then Logos 3 came out and I hated it. I set it aside for years. I even forgot I had it. Finished bible school without it. Then I started seminary and my parents offered to purchase a bronze base package for me, I checked it out, and loved it. It didn't take long for me to start combing the forums every day learning new tidbits, and hearing about free books. I remembered at some point that I had an L2 package. They helped me bring those titles in (I still had the license, didn't transfer it, or need to re-purchase). Then someone talked about perseus. So I had to download it. I had some greek after all. Having more greek titles was interesting, not to mention I'd taken latin in highschool. SO I purchased Perseus (its free but still). I had so few books and no prioritization that perseus overwhelmed my search results. I didn't know what to do. I decided I hated it, and wanted rid of it. I went through and one at a time I hid every single perseus title. Over the years I learned about and began using prioritization. I began tagging stuff, and building collections to make searches easier. Then one day I began to think about perseus again. I called it junk, and maligned it in a number of ways hitherto, but I began to see some value in it now that I had an understanding of library organization, and the power of logos when it comes to other language texts. So I went through and un-hid all of Perseus. Every now and then something useful will come from it.
Point is sometimes it is not a resource thats junk, just our own understanding of a particular thing. As my ability in Logos grew, so did and so does the usefulness of my library. I am no mark barnes. Or even a Bruce, or MJ. But I have grown since starting to use Logos.
Because of that, I don't worry too much about so called fluff in my library. Because of how Logos works the cream rises to the top. the way I make my purchasing decisions is to evaluate the contents of a base package. Lets take Collectors Edition (msrp was 10k I think, my price because of dynamic discount is around 2k) for a moment, because it is something I will probably buy if I can swing it in the next 10 months or so. CE has two commentary sets in it that separately would cost more than the entirety of the collection. Aybc is one that - while liberal - makes a strong academic statement in a paper. Especially if you can find a nugget of conservative evangelical truth in its academic and critical pages. Professors like to see it - depending on the class. Any way, the point being even if I disagree with it, there is value in it. With prioritization set up, the way I can look at things like that is that I get AYBC and another expensive commentary set, and 900 (or however many) extra books for free.
Even then, even if I am not interested in a particular title, I have been surprised a bunch of times to some of that free "fluff" return some great search results. Some of those titles are diamonds in the rough.
I don't expect that you're going to buy a base package. But should you, drop my name and you and I will both get some extra stuff. I get 100$ in credit, and you get I forget how much exactly. But I think its around 500$ in free titles. That should offset the sting of making the jump a little bit.
To be fair you get the same deal should you mention any ones name.
Also I should point out the benefits of having a relationship with a salesman over the long term. I kept track of discounts I'd gained, and was happy to learn the other day when I totaled it all up that I'd gotten about 2300$ worth of discounts over the last 4 or 5 years or so through my salesperson, really through a man whose become my friend. He has I think retired. But I've been talking with Mark Wheeler, and he's been great for me so far as well. As always to email anyone at logos (with the exception of Dan and Bob) its firstname.lastname@faithlife.com so mark would be mark.wheeler at faithlife dot com.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
So I had logos 2, and loved it. Then Logos 3 came out and I hated it. I set it aside for years. I even forgot I had it. Finished bible school without it. Then I started seminary and my parents offered to purchase a bronze base package for me, I checked it out, and loved it. It didn't take long for me to start combing the forums every day learning new tidbits, and hearing about free books. I remembered at some point that I had an L2 package. They helped me bring those titles in (I still had the license, didn't transfer it, or need to re-purchase). Then someone talked about perseus. So I had to download it. I had some greek after all. Having more greek titles was interesting, not to mention I'd taken latin in highschool. SO I purchased Perseus (its free but still). I had so few books and no prioritization that perseus overwhelmed my search results. I didn't know what to do. I decided I hated it, and wanted rid of it. I went through and one at a time I hid every single perseus title. Over the years I learned about and began using prioritization. I began tagging stuff, and building collections to make searches easier. Then one day I began to think about perseus again. I called it junk, and maligned it in a number of ways hitherto, but I began to see some value in it now that I had an understanding of library organization, and the power of logos when it comes to other language texts. So I went through and un-hid all of Perseus. Every now and then something useful will come from it.
Point is sometimes it is not a resource thats junk, just our own understanding of a particular thing. As my ability in Logos grew, so did and so does the usefulness of my library. I am no mark barnes. Or even a Bruce, or MJ. But I have grown since starting to use Logos.
Because of that, I don't worry too much about so called fluff in my library. Because of how Logos works the cream rises to the top. the way I make my purchasing decisions is to evaluate the contents of a base package. Lets take Collectors Edition (msrp was 10k I think, my price because of dynamic discount is around 2k) for a moment, because it is something I will probably buy if I can swing it in the next 10 months or so. CE has two commentary sets in it that separately would cost more than the entirety of the collection. Aybc is one that - while liberal - makes a strong academic statement in a paper. Especially if you can find a nugget of conservative evangelical truth in its academic and critical pages. Professors like to see it - depending on the class. Any way, the point being even if I disagree with it, there is value in it. With prioritization set up, the way I can look at things like that is that I get AYBC and another expensive commentary set, and 900 (or however many) extra books for free.
Even then, even if I am not interested in a particular title, I have been surprised a bunch of times to some of that free "fluff" return some great search results. Some of those titles are diamonds in the rough.
I don't expect that you're going to buy a base package. But should you, drop my name and you and I will both get some extra stuff. I get 100$ in credit, and you get I forget how much exactly. But I think its around 500$ in free titles. That should offset the sting of making the jump a little bit.
To be fair you get the same deal should you mention any ones name.
Also I should point out the benefits of having a relationship with a salesman over the long term. I kept track of discounts I'd gained, and was happy to learn the other day when I totaled it all up that I'd gotten about 2300$ worth of discounts over the last 4 or 5 years or so through my salesperson, really through a man whose become my friend. He has I think retired. But I've been talking with Mark Wheeler, and he's been great for me so far as well. As always to email anyone at logos (with the exception of Dan and Bob) its firstname.lastname@faithlife.com so mark would be mark.wheeler at faithlife dot com.Back in the day, I dealt directly with Rick Brannan at Logos. He occasionally would send me really nice things like coffee mugs (still have) and the like. A very nice fellow. Later, I dealt with Jared Bryant. I do not know if Jared is still around or not. Currently, I gave the heave-ho to the salesman that contacted me off the list that is automatically (I suppose here) generated list of email addresses of people that are new to the Logos system. This person made it pretty clear that there was no budging on anything price-wise and it was obvious that he is on commission.
I can appreciate your points on fluff from your perspective. I seem to have a very purposeful approach to this. I have very, very, very few works of a commentary type nature and I only ever look at those that would perhaps help with understanding original language aspects of my studies. I found out quite some time ago that the unction of the Holy Spirit would show me immediately what parts were correct and what parts were not. I can read any work without worry that I am going to put junk into my Truth database because of Father's guidance, so I pretty much already have a clear idea of what resources contain a richer collection of these types of information and I don't spend my time wandering in the resources that do not. True, an occasional bit of truth might show up on the back of a cereal box, but that seldom happens and a lot of the resources in the base packages are not even as good as the information on the back of a cereal box.
The Logos 6 base packages might be just dandy, but I'd much prefer buying Logos 6 Original Languages without all of the flotsam and jetsam that Logos throws in the box to add heft to it. I don't need devotionals, as I have a very, very nice personal walk with the Lord and very good feedback from Him on how I am doing in His opinion. I just talk plain with Him and He seems to appreciate that a lot. Anything of a denominational doctrinal aspect is wasted on me as I do not recognize the denominations that man has seen fit to put into place to obscure things. Truth seems to be found in many denominations, with many just getting a chunk or two and the adherents of that denomination never venturing out to find the bits of truth that another group of Christians may have. Kind of like Paul on Mars Hill.
My wife was elated when I told her that I would not be buying a Logos 6 package. She knows that I will purchase a few odds and ends that have value (and maybe works that normally sell for $100 that Logos has on sale for $1.99 that I can refer to intermittently), but I'm not of the mind to buy a package. I WAS of the mind to buy a package until I got thrown into the wringer with sales and customer service over this Logos 3 Original Languages key re-purchase. I was going to see about the key and after that was done, I was going to see about upgrading that into a current package after the New Year. But Logos sent me a clear message in how they dealt with the situation of the key re-purchase and because of how that was dealt with I am not interested in a base package of any sort. At this point, it strikes me as a bad investment and that if I were to make a large purchase, I'd just be sorry that I did because it was shown to me that Logos doesn't have things under control in the sales and customer service aspects of their business. If those aspects are bad, but Logos thinks that they are good, then just how good is the code that allows me to use the expensive fluff-laden library? If the software is buggy, and I do not know if it currently is or not, but it certainly was when I gave my Logos 4 kit away, then I'd just be buying into a world of hurt.
If a meteor strikes me or I suffer a fall and hit my head, then I may take you up on mentioning your name for a base package purchase. I have changed my mind about things in the past, but not many that I am as set on as I am about this. If sales and customer service had been coherent, even if they said NO to selling me a new key to the Logos 3 Original Languages Library, then I would not feel the way that I do now about the situation. So thank you to the sales guy and the customer service folks that blew me off and did not bother to read things. You set the tone.
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I feel like you had an unusual experience with sales; and I've had your experience with customer service (feeling ignored despite having words sent in your direction).
Bob set it right.
I wonder if we had the same CS fellow?
Sales people are not on commission to my knowledge, though they are expected to sell a certain amount in a given time period.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Michael Miles said:
So thank you to the sales guy and the customer service folks that blew me off and did not bother to read things. You set the tone.
Michael, I am sorry you were treated that way. (Not everyone in Sales and Customer Service would have done that.) I wish you well.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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