What are the criteria for "recommended retail price"?

What are Logos' criteria for deciding the "recommended retail price" of a product?

For example, Logos are offering two IVP dictionaries on pre-pub for $70. On the webpage, it says that the recommended retail price is $120. This looks like a good deal, until you look up how much the books cost elsewhere on the Internet. Just about everywhere else you can get them both for $80, even on the website of the publisher (here). So rather then saving $50 you save $10.

Which leads to another question: how is Logos' comparing these two prices supposed to be genuinely helpful for the customer if no retailer actually sells the books for the said price?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Richard

I have often wondered the same thing. I realize they have their own publishing costs, but I don't understand where their numbers come from.

Terry Poperszky

Which leads to another question: how is Logos' comparing these two prices supposed to be genuinely helpful for the customer if no retailer actually sells the books for the said price?

Recommended retail is set by the publisher.

Jason Rogers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92859#Comment_92859

I am quite confused as well. At least in the IVP instance you are actually saving money, take this account http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/WBC38A, I can get the exact new paper copy for $20 dollars less off of the Big book site. I have a hard time buying this on Logos (even though thats where I would rather have the book) and not feel ripped off. And this is far from an anomally as I have priced numerous other books.

Jason

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92859#Comment_92859

Recommended retail is set by the publisher.

Yep....

They have to set a price, and will always set it above what they expect people to pay in order to post a "sale price" that seems like a discount. I'd say just about everybody (book sellers) does this so I don't fault Logos, but just be aware that if you pay suggested retail price for anything you are not getting a good deal.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92863#Comment_92863

I am quite confused as well. At least in the IVP instance you are actually saving money, take this account http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/WBC38A, I can get the exact new paper copy for $20 dollars less off of the Big book site. I have a hard time buying this on Logos (even though thats where I would rather have the book) and not feel ripped off. And this is far from an anomally as I have priced numerous other books.

Jason

Jason, if you prefer a new paper copy to an electronic copy, buy it.

It's been said elsewhere that Logos often doesn't have control of the prices we see. They are usually set by the publishers. Some of these publishers are reluctant to sell electronic works, maybe out of fear. The prices for some of these works reflect that, or maybe greed, or maybe other factors. I don't know, I haven't seen the memos.

To me electronic copies are more valuable than paper. I have several hundred paper books in my bookshelf that I rarely open because I can get them and open them much more quickly and immediately to the right page in Logos. So I don't mind paying more, since I get a greater value. And since I almost never sell books (can't remember the last time I did - somewhere around 1977, I think, when I was in college), I'm not concerned about resell value, or transfer costs, or anything else.

(I won't get into the discussion about whether publishing electronic books is less expensive than paper. That's been hammered to death elsewhere on these forums. Bottom line is that they are more expensive to produce and that the paper and printing of traditional books is a relatively insignificant part of the publishing cost. If you want more about that go searching these forums.)

But we're all different, and have different ways of working and different perspectives. If you prefer paper, get it. If you think, like I do, that electronic is more valuable then pay what you're willing to pay for that value. If you pay what you are willing to pay, you're not getting "ripped off," even if you wish the price structure was different. Sometimes it really is a matter of perspective.

BTW, Dunn on Romans is very good!

Jason Rogers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92889#Comment_92889

Actually I do prefer the electronic copy and all that can be done inside Logos concerning those copies. But when someone, like myself who has no knowledge of publisher pricing etc, see such a price desparity it should only be common reaction to question it. Now honestly, I dont even want to know the cost that goes into switching a book to an electronic copy nor do I really care I just want to make sure that I am getting the best possible deal as I am sure is the sentiment of most people.

So one other question? When a publisher sets a price on a book, they set a paper msrp and a electronic msrp? or can anyways.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92882#Comment_92882

I teach others how to use all kinds of bible software, as a result there is no doubt in my mind that Logos is by far the best program on the market.

However, with out a doubt the universal belief held by everyone one that I meet is that Logos is way ovver priced, and the facts that you are bringing out are the same facts that I constantly have thrown back in my face by people that I am teaching to use bible software.

I no longer even try to over come this, because in so many cases it is true, but on the other hand the sales that Logos have are the best buys I have ever seen on bible software!!! I just wish we could submit sales packages that we would be interested in to Logos and then they would send back the best package deal that they could on our package.

The actual truth concerning prices on copyright resources when comparing like to like is that Logos is not over all more expensive than the other programs, they are less expensive, but their overall packages are priced higher because you are getting so many more books! Again this leads to the high priced belief. But if you actually go to some of these other program sites and pick a package and then start adding to it the resources that would make it equal to a Logos package, you would end up paying much more for an equal package, and still have a program that is not equal to Logos as far as what can be done when it comes to study and research.

Of course these other packages would also not contain many of the books that you can find only at Logos, no one comes any where near to having the same number of quality resource material that can be added to a package.

In Christ,

Jim

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92903#Comment_92903

So one other question? When a publisher sets a price on a book, they set a paper msrp and a electronic msrp? or can anyways.

Price structure varies with the media because of the nature of the media. If that big box store buys hard goods at a warehouse price, they can sell it at any price they want -- even at a loss. In that case the MSRP really is a suggested retail price.

For electronic versions, there is more anxiety and a greater (felt) need to tightly control the pricing structure, so contracts to sell electronic works are structured differently. The good side for retailers is that there is no such thing as overstocking an electronic work (unlike a paper work) so the risk is lower. The down side for consumers is that there are no 'inventory reduction sales' on works that aren't 'moving.'

To answer your question, I'm quite sure that there is only one MSRP per book. But the contractual relationships put differing emphases on the weight of the 'suggestion.'

My guess is that eventually the prices for electronic works will come down a little, but not much. The cost of producing them is higher than for paper works -- especially with the extensive tagging and life-time updates offered by Logos. (Remember, if there's a typo in a paper book, you can't just go to the book store and get a free, corrected copy.)

Philip E. Sumpter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/92918#Comment_92918

Thanks for your replies. Wikipedia have a page on RRP here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggested_retail_price. They note the danger for consumers:

"Suggested prices can also be manipulated to be unreasonably high, allowing retailers to use deceptive advertising by showing the excessive price and then their actual selling price, implying to customers that they are getting a bargain."

When I go to a shop to buy something, anything, they don't display the RRP, so why does Logos? What's the purpose? Surely, given Logos' reputation, it can't be for the reason mentioned by Wikipedia above. But I can't see any value for the consumer in having this information published. It seems to me that this can only lead to the misconception that the customer is saving money, which he or she isn't. Why doesn't Logos just stick to displaying the "sale price"?

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93320#Comment_93320

When I go to a shop to buy something, anything, they don't display the RRP, so why does Logos?

No one you ever shop with does this???

Ever bought anything from Amazon? They use a List/MSRP price, as does Barnes and Nobles. I can't remember the last time I dealt with an on-line retailer (as well as many brick and mortar stores) didn't use it.

Philip E. Sumpter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93418#Comment_93418

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the tip! I had a look at Amazon.com again and saw it , i.e. for the books under discussion "originally cost" $60 and this price is crossed through with a black line, giving the false (?) impression that a special deal is being made.

My question still stands though: what is the value of displaying this information for the customer? According the Wikipedia site I linked to above, the purpose of setting MSRPs is "help to standardize prices among locations." But this has nothing to do with the customer.

What is it about Logos' or Amazon's (or anyone's) decision to display this price that makes it not an attempt to mislead an uninformed customer? It's not lying, but it's not exactly helpful, is it?

Logos is perhaps more transparent. Whereas Amazon really makes it look like they are offering you a deal, Logos at least uses the technical term, thus enabling those with the time and energy to research such things to find out that the information is useless.

But the question still stands. Or am I overreacting?

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93438#Comment_93438

But the question still stands. Or am I overreacting?

Yes.

MSRP means what it says.

I checked the IVP site. Each of the 2 vol. of the IVP OT Dictionary is clearly labeled as $60 retail by IVP. IVP sells to distributors and retailers at a discount off of that MSRP. Their site also sells to internet customers at a discount off that MSRP. IVP's discounted price on their print editions is still more than the Logos electronic edition pre-pub price.

You seem to think that Logos should be posting a price that says "The print edition is available at the discounted price of $ from some other source"

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93438#Comment_93438

But the question still stands

All I can say is that it is a standard industry practice.

What is it about Logos' or Amazon's (or anyone's) decision to display this price that makes it not an attempt to mislead an uninformed customer? It's not lying, but it's not exactly helpful, is it?

Actually, I do find it helpful (in certain circumstances), it is one more piece of information that I use in deciding to make a purchase. If I don't see a substantial discount from MSRP/List, then I keep shopping. Sometimes I find that no one is giving discounts off of List, then I know that the manufacturer is controlling the price and not the retailer (e.g. Logos Baker Pre-pubs, Garmin GPS). That again is useful information in making a purchase.

an attempt to mislead an uninformed customer?

It is not the job of a retailer to protect those who haven't done their research. This is different from taking advantage of those that haven't done their research. Neither Amazon or Logos with their return polices fall into this latter category.

am I overreacting?

From my viewpoint you aren't over reacting, you are educating yourself. Sometimes we don't like or agree with what we learn. This may be that time for you.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93457#Comment_93457

I have no idea why some of this posted in such large bold letters, I did not mean it to do that, if some one can change that please do.

This might make some squirm, but I really love Logos and have spent 1000,s of dollars on their books and learning how to use Libronix 3 and now Logos 4,so please keep this in mind while I bring this up and give some real Logos examples on suggested retail prices.

I take this from the Community Pricing page:

We calculate how much it will cost to produce a title; when Logos users together place bids to total that amount, we produce the title.

Real example I recently bid on the New Testament For English Readers, they calculated their cost to produce this work and we ended up getting it for 12.00, which is a great price for this public domain work. But now this work shows up on the pre-pub page for, 59.95! And it has a suggested retail price of 99.95!

Now I can see how that might seem really high to many people because according to the Community Pricing page they already have the cost to produce this source covered and this book is a public domain book so there is no publisher cost to pay in the future!

Here is another real example from Logos.

Abstract of Systematic Theology by James P. Boyce, in Community pricing 7.00, in Pre Pub 19.95, suggested retail price 29.95.
Bible Studies by Deissmann, in Community Pricing 8.00, in Pre-Pub 18.95 and Suggested Retail 32.00.
There are many more examples that I could show, but the point I am making is in each case a small group of people, I think Bob said the average is 300 people placed the Community Price bids and paid for getting the book in production. So all of the orders from then on do not have much for a production cost and since none of these are copyrighted books those costs are gone too!
It appears to me that, if Logos sold these books at the community price, since production costs are covered they would be doing well, but the retail price of these books are 4 to 6 times that price!
Please keep in mind that I have a bid on all of the current community pricing books and that I am thankful for Logos, but knowing these things makes it hard to tell others that Logos is not expensive at times.
By the way I also plan on buying Public domain books from Logos that I never got to bid on, and sometimes I wonder about the prices, but I look at the amount of gain I get from a book in the Logos system and I buy them because of that! Plus let's not forget I have never seen anyone beat their prices on package deals!!!
In Christ,
Jim

this might make some

Philip E. Sumpter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93457#Comment_93457

Thank you all for your responses, sorry for my late reply.

Edwin said: You seem to think that Logos should be posting a price that says "The print edition is available at the discounted price of $ from some other source.

No, I just figured comparing pre-pub to Logos sale price would make sense. I now know to be careful when only two prices are compared: pre-pub and RRP.

Terry,

thanks for your thoughts. I guess I'm just ignorant concerning standard industry practice. I can imagine now that the information is useful and realize that by stating the type of price (RRP) logos is being transparent. Your right that this is how I educate myself! I get stuck on a detail and hunt it to exhaustion.

I adore Logos and will buy their products even if they are not cheaper then paper books (though I'd think twice if I could get paper books a lot cheaper).

Oh, and this is a great forum!

Mike W

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/93320#Comment_93320

When I go to a shop to buy something, anything, they don't display the RRP

Many of the large online Book discounters like CBD, and Amazon almost always display MSRP next to their sale price and often note the "savings" over MSRP. A popular online christian software also lists MSRP next to their sale price.

Oops, I noticed I'm a few days late on this. For some reason the the delete post option isn't working.