Linux version of Logos Bible Software
Comments
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It seems like, "No" would have been a decent answer to the original question. They aren't going to make something for Linux... Ok. It's not very popular, I get that. I would like then for Logos to code their software for Logos 5 with multi thread capability so I get the most out of my quad core with turbo boost and 7 GB of RAM in cluding of course my 1 BG of V RAM. I thought it would run lightning fast on my computer and never have a hangup. I was wrong, but that's ok. It can and will get better once Logos can manage to draw some seriously talented programers away from the high paying jobs to work on a lobour of love, God's Word. That is up to God. As is everything else. I hope for the best and will continue to invest in my Logos library for me and the call of God on my life and for my son who will inheirit it. Thanks Logos. keep up the work, God will make it good... or not! But keep it up
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My wife uses Windows. My parents use Windows. My grandma uses Windows. My sisters and my brother use Windows. In my large extended family (probably 50 computers between aunts, uncles, and cousins) there's only one person who uses Logos, and he prefers Linux.
I have use Linux 99% of the time, but I have Windows 7 installed in VBox (Virtual Machine) on my computer so i can run Logos.
I'd pay $200 to be able to read my library using a program like Logos's Windows program. It works OK now but it is difficult to copy and export to my Linux programs but it can be done.
I also lost one of my purchased publications - good thing I have a back up disk because the book is not even on the ftp.logos.com web site anymore. Logos has lost the publication rights - but this seems to be that they've lost the rights to still post the locked down book for those who have purchased the book in the past.
I found a new Windows based bible http://credobiblestudy.en.softonic.com/ and I contacted the author about using it under WINE. He took a day of his time to see if he could do it. The problem was a database program which he had already planned to change. Soon it will work under WINE.
I hear undercurrents of Linux and Open Source software - with the tone of "I won't pay money". I don't mind paying money for good things, I just don't like it when I need a tool one time to do something and someone has their hands out for $100 each time. i don't have this with Linux.
i have paid for a closed source modem driver $150.00 I have paid for a subscription for Abbyy OCR for Linux at $160. I would pay for Logos.
But I think Logos is fading away, I wish they'd at least get Logos working under WINE.
I like having an operating system that can remain working without a glitch for a year or more.
Anyway I have $2000 of books that I will probably loose.
If there is a program to convert Logos books to eBooks I would be very interested. That way i can take my books on any computer. I have Logos on my Android tablet and I have Logos in Vbox under Linux but it just isn't the same as having it run in Linux and be able to cut and paste information.
But the loss of one of my books reminded me that maybe eBooks aren't as lasting as paper.
The book is Jerome Bible Commentary. Gone, not available. Customer Service can't give me a copy - but I did find my back up copy - but it was a warning to me.
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David J. Ring, Jr. said:
I wish they'd at least get Logos working under WINE.
Logos 4 uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF), which does not have an Open Source community port so WINE is not an option.
David J. Ring, Jr. said:If there is a program to convert Logos books to eBooks I would be very interested.
Suspect a conversion program does not comply with Logos End User License Agreement. Caveat: some forum threads have discussed conversion into PDF's for use with Kindle.
David J. Ring, Jr. said:That way i can take my books on any computer. I have Logos on my Android tablet and I have Logos in Vbox under Linux but it just isn't the same as having it run in Linux and be able to cut and paste information.
Wonder about virtual box version and guest addition installation in Windows ? May need to stop and start virtual box guest additions for copy and paste.
Also noticed Android emulation is available so could run the Logos Android app on an Open Source distribution.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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[quote]Logos 4 uses Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF)
WPF was supposed to be the next big cool thing, and there are some advantages and offers some benefits..... but I would be hard pressed to choose it on a new project. Most of the "difficult" problems seemed to be solved either with some sort of secret sauce (enter this magic undocumented set of attributes) or by reverting to embedded code that no one expected because you were not supposed to use it. Saw a bunch of our GUI guys very unhappy with it, I worked hard to avoid it.
I keep thinking that if I want access to my books on Linux, I would go with an Android emulator (assuming that the simple capabilities are sufficient).
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I think you make a critical point about Android, Logos has been written for Android, which is basically just java on top of Linux. Given this, why can't we get a Linux version of Logos? Or even better a cloud based version? A cloud based version would not only allow you to use Logos regardless of where you are, but also would allow Linux users to just use Firefox or Chrome to get to their info? With Windows 8, Linux is about to become much more prevalent and I hope the folks who make Logos take note of that.
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Hi Joshua - and welcome to the forums
Joshua Lumley said:Logos has been written for Android, which is basically just java on top of Linux. Given this, why can't we get a Linux version of Logos?
Because the Android version is a cut-down, limited feature solution so doesn't provide the basis for what you are describing.
Joshua Lumley said:Or even better a cloud based version?
Have a look at biblia.com - provides access to your resources in a web browser (though admittedly not the full functionality you get in the desktop package)
Graham
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Curious question. Did Logos 5 change the underlying structure? If so, has someone tried to install in Wine? I'm waiting for the free engine upgrade before switching, or I'd tinker myself.
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No. L5 upgrades to the next version of .NET. Same basic underlying structure.Alan Gerling said:Curious question. Did Logos 5 change the underlying structure?
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Ironically, the race to the latest version of .NET makes it less likely that it will be supported.
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Graham,
I could hug you - I went to biblia.com and signed in with my Logos username and password - AND ALL MY BOOKS WERE THERE.
That's nice - now if they can give me some of the functionality of Logos in "the cloud" I will be a happy camper.
Also if I could DOWNLOAD my books and open them up with - oh, yeah, it's a web page.
Drat. I guess as long as I'm connected to the Internet this will work but really, I think the Logos bosses are somehow caught up in the "free software" problem - some is free, but not all. I like getting OpenOffice - but Windows also has Open Source software now. That's a good thing.
I have already paid for my books, I just want to have a way to use them on Linux.
I don't care if Logos makes a program that treats the unlocking of my books like Fort Knox. That doesn't bother me. Good for them. I paid for my books, I just want to read them.
Somehow I get the feeling that Logos has the idea that just because they make a program that allows Logos users to read their books without being on line, somehow it will have people getting access to stolen books.Linux is much more secure than Windows. Logos can make a validation check with Linux that's safer than Windows - I do believe Logos somehow is all distored about "free software", Open Source - Logos doesn't have to be open source, I have no problem with that.
I believe it will give Bob a lot of new users, and old users who have gone to Linux will buy more books.
Right now, I bought an Android and am reading my books there, so I have a work around. I have downloaded my books and I can read them in deepest Central Africa if I wanted. BRAVO.
My laptop with a bigger screen is Linux. I have Windows installed on a partition but I use it maybe twice a year.
Best wishes to all and to all thank you thank you thank you for Biblia dot com.
Now make a simple Linux program along the lines of LOGOS 2.0 - fast and can search and do links. Nothing more is wanted. Make it compatable with the new and currently sold books and I am sure you will sell more books.
Thanks,
David
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Hey everyone, I can cut and past from my books on my Linux Laptop with biblia.com.
Oh, wonderful.
David
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Perhaps the news of Ubuntu for tablets will create more market need for a Linux version of Logos. We can hope for that.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2415576,00.asp0 -
May be Logos company already knows that Android is going to win, and they already have Android version.
JesusChrist.ru - Russian Christian Portal, with free Bible software; Timh.ru - blog
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Aaron Bauman said:
Perhaps the news of Ubuntu for tablets will create more market need for a Linux version of Logos. We can hope for that.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2415576,00.aspWelcome [:D]
From a business perspective, news provides reason to watch for Ubuntu device sales of phones and tablets. If enough devices sell, anticipate Logos porting mobile app.
Currently, Logos has three variants of mobile apps: Android, iOS, and Windows 8.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Chris said:
I would like then for Logos to code their software for Logos 5 with multi thread capability so I get the most out of my quad core with turbo boost and 7 GB of RAM in cluding of course my 1 BG of V RAM. I thought it would run lightning fast on my computer and never have a hangup. I was wrong, but that's ok.
Amen to that brother!! IF a moderator wants to direct me where to post for that request I would be happy to follow up.
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Would GTK's GladeXML or QT's QML do the trick as a replacement for WPF?
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Matthew Wardrop said:
Would GTK's GladeXML or QT's QML do the trick as a replacement for WPF?
Are you suggesting they port their entire codebase over to a completely different framework in order to support an OS with 1.26% market share? You may want to just start your own software company, it'll be faster.
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Count me in on that, my octocore would love some multi-thread optimization. Maybe in L6.Paul Searle said:Chris said:I would like then for Logos to code their software for Logos 5 with multi thread capability so I get the most out of my quad core with turbo boost and 7 GB of RAM in cluding of course my 1 BG of V RAM. I thought it would run lightning fast on my computer and never have a hangup. I was wrong, but that's ok.
Amen to that brother!! IF a moderator wants to direct me where to post for that request I would be happy to follow up.
I hear multi-threaded programing is complicated (and thus expensive)... But pandora's box is open, multi-core isn't going away.
Linux might. Muti-cores, no chance.
(just giving the linux brethren a gentle ribbing, no offence intended)L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Something like QML can certainly act as a replacement for WPF, and the result would be a single code base with support for multiple operating systems and to some extent mobile devices (for a test, I compiled QT and then ran it on an Android device). They are improving QT support on Android so some of the hoops I had to jump through to make it work should no longer be needed.
That said, the other things are not compatible with WPF, so it would still be a total rewrite (at least on the GUI). When you drink the QT kool-aid, you should probably do it all the way.
I like the MS development environment, but I have no particular love for WPF since I have been seriously affected by certain negative behaviors while dealing with interactions between tabs; there were three layers of indirection, none of which I had access to, and they all had different states at different times, so things were out of sync. I have no expectation that stuff like that will ever be fixed because the MS libraries still have basic errors in their I/O that have been there for more than ten years - so I usually end up rewriting my own low-level I/O to deal with basic text reading (problem with the C++ internal buffers when a carriage return line feed pair is split by an internal stream buffer it is interpreted as two lines rather than just one).
I hear rumors that at least some of the WPF is somehow reaching end of life (http://www.riagenic.com/archives/960), but have not paid much attention to that since my current project is migrating away from WPF anyway.
If they are currently using WPF, then they are strongly in the MS .NET camp probably, so they would need to totally retrain their MS developers. They are also (then) probably using C#, which means that their developers may not have strong C++ capabilities, and going from a language like C# that handles most of the memory clean-up to something like C++ where you need to handle that yourself can be a huge hurdle (ignoring the differences between something like .NET and WPF compared to QT). In other words, it would take a lot of retraining. The time to have made that change was when they opted to jump onto the Apple platform, then they could have used a single code base for the entire product line. Well, I can't claim how well supported QT really is on mobile devices, just that I had no problems making it run. I have not spent much time developing for phones and tablets. They have a big push in that direction now, and if it was all rose petals and sunshine on mobile devices then there would not be a big push right now.
If you really want to run Logos on Linux, run Mac, it is based on Linux.. No, I really mean, run Windows in a VM and install Logos there. My first attempt at that I tried to place my books on a drive other than Drive C, because it let me do that, but then Logos totally failed to access them because they had to be move to drive C. Tech support said it was a feature to allow me to put them someplace else, but not a bug that they were not usable on some drive other than C. I have no idea if that is still true, but I pretty much dismissed that as a failure to get something basic right, and it set the tone of what I might expect from the product team. My only point in all that is that you should test it first with a limited install before you commit to putting everything into a VM.
One final thought, Android is Linux, and I do believe that you can run your Android Apps on Linux, not that I have done it or seen it done apart from running them in an Android development environment. My only point with this is that you may be able to run an Android version on your Linux box and still access your books if that is what you desire. Despite my previously stated misgivings about my expectations based on a failure to get at least one basic function right, Logos is (in my opinion) the best Bible reader application on Logos available today. At least it is much better than anything I have tried; mostly because it fully understands how to navigate the Bible.
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abondservant said:
I hear multi-threaded programing is complicated (and thus expensive)... But pandora's box is open, multi-core isn't going away.
I wrote my own backup program (because I wanted something specific), so I wrote a separate thread to do the backup work so that the GUI would stay responsive. I generate numerous log messages, so i have a separate thread to process a log queue.
Pretty much any GUI is already multi-threaded, but I am sure that is not what you mean. This is usually reserved for long running tasks or processing something in the background that should not detract from the GUI performance. What did you want from the other thread? I expect (but am only guessing) that Logos probably already kicks off separate threads to do things such as check for updated books.
If you find Logos to be slow when you run a particular task, you should certainly formulate that as an enhancement request. [:D]
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Yeah... having one architecture for all operating systems (QML, for example); just makes a lot of sense. It's being open and free helps as well. Of course, it makes sense if they were going to rewrite everything; perhaps not if they are happy with what they already have. Still; in my experience, once code is written in one language; most of the logic can be quickly ported to another... then you just have to deal with a million little bugs
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Matthew Wardrop said:
Still; in my experience, once code is written in one language; most of the logic can be quickly ported to another... then you just have to deal with a million little bugs
.Might be easier said than done the first programers they hired were 3 years late and never did get anything much more than a bare reader done. Logos 4 took a long time to squish all the bugs and never did reach feature parity with the PC side (it may have by them removing functionality from the PC side, seems to me i remember them saying something about one or more features being rewritten but since 5 came along I have no longer used 4 so perhaps handouts and such made it to mac finally). Theoretically it should be possible to do it but i think Logos would need to see Linux gaining a larger share first a good compromise might be to run a virtual box and install windows 7, the equivalent was what i had to do to run Logos on my mac for many years… although Virtual PC and windows xp were painfully slow… Ironically now it is still running on that old machine to have WordSearch 10 running which is actually quite speedy on my old G5….
-Dan
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Yeah... you're probably right
. Perhaps the future will see the Logos developers move to a more cross-platform framework; especially if WPF is being EOL'd. Until then... I'll just keep Windows around somehow .-M
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I'd be very curious as to where that 1.26% number comes from... particularly if you include countries outside of the U.S. Consider that if Logos would move to ANY opensource basis, it would provide compatibility with 100% of operating systems.
If churches simple moved to Linux, LibreOffice, Lyricue, CiviCRM, etc... think of the countless dollars (we're literally talking combined millions) the Kingdom of God would save. That money could be spent developing new features that would then be made available to all other churches.
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Kermit,
What you say is true, but I like Linux because it is so stable. It never crashes on me. I am not against paying for Logos, I have a copy of Logos 5, but I rarely use it because I rarely use Windows. Even when I use Logos 5 for Windows, I don't like it much because I don't like Windows anymore, and I haven't gone to Mac because with Linux you can find a program to do whatever you want, tracing drawings, publishing, word processing.
I do wish someone would make a program like WordPerfect for DOS - like WordPerfect 6.0 or 5.1 because it just gives you a eblank screen - perfect for writers - the editors do the formatting anyway and they have to remove all the formatting from Word files before they use them unless you save in RTF which I do.
If Logos could make a version for Linux that was as simple as Logos 2.0 (remember under Windows 3?) it would be fine with me, I just need the library to hyperlink to other books I own, arrange little windows so I can do word studies, look up Greek, Hebrew or search a Bible Dictionary for explanations of English words.r
I don't want much, as good as Logos 2.0 for Windows but able to read the newest books I have bought.
I am now buying books for my Kindle instead of Logos books.
In fact the only program I have bought in the past ten years is Logos 5.
I have everything else I need. There is Bible Time and Bible Analyzer one of the two runs under KDE which I don't like because GNOME is faster.
But as they say "Nothing beats Logos". Search a few times there are some outstanding resources out there.
I still would like to read my books in a program inside Linux, I use the web page which runs in a browser, but that isn't the speed I like.
Best wishes to all,
David
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Kermit Jones said:
I'd be very curious as to where that 1.26% number comes from... particularly if you include countries outside of the U.S. Consider that if Logos would move to ANY opensource basis, it would provide compatibility with 100% of operating systems.
Welcome [:D]
Curious about open source example(s) that are compatible with all operating systems.
Logos uses SQLite => https://www.sqlite.org/ that is widely deployed => https://www.sqlite.org/mostdeployed.html along with compilation hints => https://www.sqlite.org/howtocompile.html since C compilers for different operating systems have a variety of complex quirks.
Noticed netmartketshare.com shows 1.26 % Desktop operating share for Linux in May 2013:
Netmarket share FAQ includes Global weighting => http://netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I wonder if the logos system for community pricing could be used to solve this problem. If logos put up a page where people could bid for a linux version of the software I think we would quickly see what demand there is?
It is already possible for users to request code weavers to make it work so that could be a way forward too.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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Is there another solution? I found myself wondering what faithlife or biblia is missing that I really need from logos. In one way a massive amount but for most of the time it is just
the info panel
notes
status bar parsing info
Interlinear display
what do people need most? Can we persuade logos to give us what we need online?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
I wonder if the logos system for community pricing could be used to solve this problem. If logos put up a page where people could bid for a linux version of the software I think we would quickly see what demand there is?
I think this is a great idea. I'd pre-order a Linux-compatible version of Logos using the pre-publication system. What would there be to lose in setting this up to, as you say, gauge actual demand?
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It is one thing to pledge money. It's another thing to actually invest and give. A more realistic approach might be to have a simple book viewer without all the Bible study and doing simple concordance searches. Once again there is always biblia.com. Linux desktop users will simply never get there in terms of market worth. Also you can run an android emulator and install the app right?
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