Linux version of Logos Bible Software
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Hmmm, following that thread, the possibility of a linux port seems much easier! (Still not easy, but easier!) All we'd need on linux is a custom GUI?
In the meantime, I'm waiting for my new Logos4 package to arrive so that I can test it out using Wine. There's been some success running .NET applications under wine. (Even using the MS .net suite!)
Will post later on regarding the results if anyone is interested. (It won't be soon - I ordered the Physical discs rather than the download - very old fashioned of me!
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Good to hear more people are taking intrest in getting Logos running in Linux!
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理，真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.0 -
I'm quite interested Nicholas. I just need to locate another Linux test machine.....Nicholas van Oudtshoorn said:Will post later on regarding the results if anyone is interested. (It won't be soon - I ordered the Physical discs rather than the download - very old fashioned of me!
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Nicholas van Oudtshoorn said:
Hmmm, following that thread, the possibility of a linux port seems much easier! (Still not easy, but easier!) All we'd need on linux is a custom GUI?
Indeed: http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page
Can anyone say crossplatform?
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apparently, according to their FAQ, it's just that they like monkeys (Spanish: Mono).
Either way, Logos was smart in going in this direction.
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WOW.
I'm not a fan of Java or .Net, but I decided to go ahead and take a look at this new Version 4 of Logos.
WOW.
It is still indexing, so I have not yet had an opportunity to take it through the turns, but the first eyefull is pretty interesting stuff.
I may go back to Windows and actually upgrade my Logos package for this. I'm certainly glad that I gave it a twirl. Bible study is important to me and NOTHING on Linux is going to get close to this in the next decade - unless the folks at the Mono project can make this work. I'm impressed. So far - so good.
Mike
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MikeM said:
WOW.
I'm not a fan of Java or .Net, but I decided to go ahead and take a look at this new Version 4 of Logos.
WOW.
It is still indexing, so I have not yet had an opportunity to take it through the turns, but the first eyefull is pretty interesting stuff.
I may go back to Windows and actually upgrade my Logos package for this. I'm certainly glad that I gave it a twirl. Bible study is important to me and NOTHING on Linux is going to get close to this in the next decade - unless the folks at the Mono project can make this work. I'm impressed. So far - so good.
Mike
I am a part of the Fedora Project, I write documentation and software for the project and when Logos 4 came out I purchased a copy of Windows 7 and installed it and Logos 4 on my machine. I have been a Linux only person (at home) for almost 10 years but when I saw Logos 4 I knew that a VM was not going to cut. I am very happy that I did this. I have been working on Fedora from within a VM and Logos is available to me at all times. If some day I have Logos on Linux I will switch back but until then my work will get done this way.
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I have had Logos4 running on a Virtualbox VM (guest XP - 32bit) hosted on a Ubuntu 9.04 machine for about 10 days now. I gave the machine a 3.2 gb of memory out of a total 6gb available on an older Intel quad-core and I haven't noticed much difference in responsiveness over a native boot of XP. It could be that running on a 64-bit os might make a difference.
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Zachary Oglesby said:
I am a part of the Fedora Project, I write documentation and software for the project and when Logos 4 came out I purchased a copy of Windows 7 and installed it and Logos 4 on my machine. I have been a Linux only person (at home) for almost 10 years but when I saw Logos 4 I knew that a VM was not going to cut. I am very happy that I did this. I have been working on Fedora from within a VM and Logos is available to me at all times. If some day I have Logos on Linux I will switch back but until then my work will get done this way.
Hi Zachary,
I tried the XP install but ran into issues with XP SP3 and my dvd burners so I went ahead and installed Vista Business and it's working A-OK. I use drive caddys to change operating systems usually but had wiped all of my Windows installs in favor of various Linux and BSD systems. Vista Business seems to like my hardware just fine too.
I just ordered the Logos 4 minimal crossgrade on DVD a few minutes ago. I need to go re-install my BibleWorks 8 now that I have a working Windows environment. I may even try installing Linux on VirtualBox under this Vista install. I'm working on some add-ons for the Sword Project/Xiphos/BibleTime and it would be nice to not have to shut down the system to get into Linux.
Mike
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Douglas Horst said:
I have had Logos4 running on a Virtualbox VM (guest XP - 32bit) hosted on a Ubuntu 9.04 machine for about 10 days now. I gave the machine a 3.2 gb of memory out of a total 6gb available on an older Intel quad-core and I haven't noticed much difference in responsiveness over a native boot of XP. It could be that running on a 64-bit os might make a difference.
Hi Douglas,
I'm an Ubuntu fan as well. It seems to "just work" better than any OS I've used.
Mike
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I just looked here, and Windows is at 92%, OS X ~5%, Linux ~1%. There isn't that large of a difference difference between Linux users and Mac users. I also thought it was interesting that more people use Windows 7 than use OS X. Also interesting, more people use Linux than have iPhones. I can't tell you how many iPhones I see, and there are more Linux users than there are iPhones.
I would also like to comment on what I see as faulty logic. Most young people who will become tomorrow's Bible scholars are, clearly, using Ubuntu. :-)
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Your "hunch" isn't logical. Most young people are less computer savvy than me, and will use the OS that comes on their computer. At the moment, that would be almost certainly Win, or OS X. In fact I would suggest that 92% of them use Win.StevenCuffle said:I would also like to comment on what I see as faulty logic. Most young people who will become tomorrow's Bible scholars are, clearly, using Ubuntu. :-)
Typically market research data is reasonably accurate.
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StevenCuffle said:
I would also like to comment on what I see as faulty logic.
Sorry, but that was too funny after you said this: [:D]
StevenCuffle said:Also interesting, more people use Linux than have iPhones. I can't tell you how many iPhones I see, and there are more Linux users than there are iPhones.
This site is a simple representation of market share by browsing statistics!!
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StevenCuffle said:
I just looked here, and Windows is at 92%, OS X ~5%, Linux ~1%. There isn't that large of a difference difference between Linux users and Mac users. I also thought it was interesting that more people use Windows 7 than use OS X. Also interesting, more people use Linux than have iPhones. I can't tell you how many iPhones I see, and there are more Linux users than there are iPhones.
The trouble with these stats is that they are global. So for example, they would include enterprise computing where Windows is a very common machine, but would not be a market that would be generally attracted to Logos. The same goes for other languages/international markets.
So the correct question is, what is the market distribution of desktop operating systems in demographic groups that are potential Logos' customers?
1. For starters, we know that there are only certain languages at this time that would be potentially attracted to Logos and its resources. So probably the biggest market is English speaking countries where there would be a higher percentage of Macs than other countries where they are hard or impossible to buy.
2. Also what kind of ownership would be attracted to Logos and its resources? I would venture to guess in many of these cases the computers will be home, ministry and/or academically owned.
3. Lastly, which types of people? In this is religion, age, occupation, academic focus, inclination to use a computer, personal finances, etc.
When you all this together and can sort of define this group (and it will never be a perfect science), then you run the numbers on distribution of operating systems in this group. I am going to guess that use of OSX is higher due to seminary and theology students who would be potential buyers. I saw some stats run by someone who said the market was hovering around 10% when you take out enterprise computing, but I am not sure how good the science was behind it. Also, it would be interesting to know what the percentage of Linux users look like within Logo's potential customer base. Perhaps it might increase.
One thing is for sure that we can all bet on. Windows is still the dominate operating system no matter how you define the potential customer base!
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
For example, if you looked at market share of home users, the Apple and Linux users might be higher, because in enterprise Windows is generally a more commonly deployed solution.
How many people am i aquainted with who own computers?
roughly 30 (not including this forum)
How many use Mac?
4
How many use some Linux OS flavor?
1 (he's the IT guy at work)
I'm going to guess and say that these numbers are representative (within reason) across the computing landscape... [:D]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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There is a misconception that Windows is easier to use. Anyone that says that has not run into certain problems that occassionally crop up (such as Windows update refusing to run and then refusing to install the fix because Windows is convinced that that administrator does not have privliges to do so). One obvious advantage of Windows, however, is that everyone seems to know someone that knows something about Windows and can help you out in a jam (or at least you can pay someone to fix it). The last Linux computer that I setup and gave away (yes, free, as in at my expense), came back because there was this one game that they really wanted to run that is Windows only. Most of the people that I know that use Linux are either very close friends with a "super geek" that handles Linux well, or is that super geek.
Another road block, besides raw numbers, is that the ideology of many of the Linux users is that they will only use free software. I was presenting at a Linux conference and I recommended a set of commercial (costs money) drivers that allow Linux to use otherwise unsupported printers, and provides extra features (such as color profiles) for some printers that are supported. I caught some flak because the obvious solution is that you only purchase a printer that is fully supported on Linux. This same group would likely never pay for Logos, but I will concede that this is speculation.
My primary interest at this point is "how difficult is it to make the new c# version run under Linux. If this is really done with Mono, it should mostly function. I have not seen people jumping up and down cheering, so I suppose that this is not the case. Historically, there has been a free download of the base product and then you pay for books. Is this still the case? If so, then I will try it out. If it works I will be spending some money updating things...
Someone mentioned (in this thread) that the books were used a type of DRM. This is true enough. On the other hand, I can say that the Logos people have worked very hard to make certain that if you purchased a book in the past, that it continues to work with the newest versions (even if you have issues with your unlock files and such). I can attest to this fact based on the amount of time that they have worked with my Mother; crashed hard drives, updated O/S, etc. So, although I agree that this is annoying, given their level of service I will begrudingly accept it. Stated another way, they offer great support that projects the principles that you expect from a company selling Bible software.
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Robert Pavich said:
How many people am i aquainted with who own computers?
roughly 30 (not including this forum)
How many use Mac?
4
That's 13%. I work with young people and I'd venture to guess that the percentage must be pushing past 30% now... and that would be pretty conservative on some accounts.
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I guess this thread is a little too serious for me, so here's my second attempt at humor...
All future Bible scholars (pronounced "me") are using Ubuntu.
Ah, I kill me.
I've recently started using Ubuntu, but I don't see MS or Mac in danger of losing out to any distro any time soon. So, I'll just keep doing what I've always done, use MS where I must and then use whatever I like for anything else.
Has anyone had any success getting version 4 to work in a linux distro yet? If so, which one and how?
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I must admit, Logos 4 was a Linux killer for me. As much as I loved Ubuntu dearly, my computer just didn't like running Logos 4 in a virtual box, and I refuse to dual boot. On the upside however, I will say that I was pleasantly surprised by Windows 7. Unless Linux can get some killer apps, it's just not going to be a feasible operating system outside of geek world. By the way, in case you're wondering, I would consider Logos on Linux to be a killer app, and I think there would be a groundswell of people (pastors, students with no money to spend on expensive operating systems) that would move to Linux if Logos ran natively on it. The stats don't show Linux users, but I think what the Logos team doesn't understand is that by making Logos for Linux, they would be creating Linux users!
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Logos costs so much, I assume they count on churches budgeting money for the training classes and 4 digit price tag collections in order to sell their product.
Brian Whalen
http://www.mcnazarene.com
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Logos Provides so much. While I won't debate the fact that plopping down several $100 bills is a painful process - try to remember what you get in exchange for that money. No, not the engine, that's "Free" (Paid for by the book sales).BrianWhalen said:Logos costs so much
You get hundreds of fully tagged, fully searchable books.
I have over a hundred linear feet of bookshelf space in my office and many dozens of books awaiting a shelf laying on the floor (sob). I also have a 3 1/2" hard drive with some 20 GB of books on it. If I totaled up the cost of my print and digital library my wife would have a heart attack. My wife won't even let me see the CBD catalogs when they arrive any more.
I know what it takes for me to search through all of these dead-tree version books. I also know full well what it takes for me to search through some 3000 volumes on my computer.
Yes Logos is expensive - that's a true statement. But IMHO I got what I paid for plus a quite a bit more.
I wouldn't begin to assume what they count on. Let me be patently blunt. I'm fully qualified to be listed as poor as an American, but compared to a massive percentage (75%?) of the world I'm stupendously wealthy. I will answer for what I've done with that wealth, as well as with the wealth of resources I have.BrianWhalen said:I assume they count on churches budgeting money for the training classes and 4 digit price tag collections in order to sell their product.
I trust that I am investing in all things well. I opted to skip out on the new car and the big screen TV that everyone I know has. I have software with books. They have a 42" plasma with surround sound. Big Whoop for them, I'm pursuing truth - which one shall endure for eternity?
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Libronix version 3 is a free download without books. Is the same true of Logos 4? I can't find a link. I desire to perform some testing under Linux...
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]I couldn't find a link on the web site to the file, so I downloaded it and compressed it. Happy Testing!
Blessings,
Michael Kares
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MichaelKares said:
]I couldn't find a link on the web site to the file, so I downloaded it and compressed it. Happy Testing!
Blessings,
Michael Kares
Try this
http://downloads.logos.com/LBS4/LDLS4Installer/Logos4Setup.exe
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I'm there.
But I'm in the camp that I prefer to use inferior products that I can use on my operating system of choice (FreeBSD). I won't move to windows just for one software.
I wish some quality software were available for purchase and use on unix systems. I think there would be demonstrable profit; and minimal risk to the vendors. Generally some base system could be open sourced and the rest would happen almost by itself.
seems that way to me, anyway.
The commercial software available unix are huge enterprise systems. That's not a very good test. How about some test personal productivity software?
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Those market shares are OS purchases. It's not much of a reflection of users willing to pay for software. There are more Linux installations than the pie graph suggests.
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If somebody would put up a test software for sale that runs WELL on Linux (/BSD) we could see just how well the market will respond.
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plus, you can let the hackers see the Libronix code. That takes the development monkey off your back.
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Web apps are a dime a dozen these days. I'm interested in a self-contained version. Logos is the best; however.......
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Neil Short said:
If somebody would put up a test software for sale that runs WELL on Linux (/BSD) we could see just how well the market will respond.
I hope you don't mind if a non-Linux user horns in here to ask a question. You speak of test software that runs well; would this not mean that a nearly finished version of Logos 4 would be necessary rather than some "quick and dirty" assemblage? If they are going to go to that length, "in for a penny, in for a pound." I just don't see it.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I really think you guys are missing the point. We can press for a Linux version till we're blue in the face, but it's not going to happen. The market analysis just doesn't support it. Beyond that, I really think your OS is not going to matter within the decade. I think the future of computing software is in fully featured web apps (i.e. Google Docs, Office Live, etc). As unwilling as Logos seems to be on working on a Linux port of their software, they do seem to be highly interested in a web app! I think the Linux Logos users of the world could better direct their energies toward encouraging that kind of application for Logos 5. Until then, dual boot or VM a Windows Box, and when you don't feel like restarting your computer to just look something up, use library.logos.com! (make sure you make the window really narrow, after all, it is designed for a phone, not a computer!
There, sermon finished!!!
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I hope Logos doesn't move completely to cloud computing. I'd hate to need to possess an internet connection to access my resources.
Also, I y'all want quality Unix Software you can always purchase a Mac. [H]
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Let's not drag that up again. It's not happening in the foreseeable future, at least a cloud only model isn't happening. That's already been discussed ad nauseum.MichaelKares said:I hope Logos doesn't move completely to cloud computing. I'd hate to need to possess an internet connection to access my resources.
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Tried to install Logos 4 under the latest crossover office, but, logos 4 stops and complains that I am not using XP with service pack 3.... Would be nice if you could over-ride that.
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Andrew, I couldn't get that far before. Did you have to install .net separately or how did you start the install. Every time I tried under Linux it failed right away.
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For my first attempt, I tried a windows 98 bottle with dcom98 and IE6. I then installed unsupported software and selected Logos4Setup.exe. I had to check the unsupported install log file to see that anything happened.
Next, I created an XP bottle, and I installed IE7. I was prepared to perform jump through a bunch of hoops, but it displayed a dialog that stated that I needed to have XP service pack 3.
I may probe crossover support to see if I can fool the EXE into thinking that I am using service pack 3, but without the other items (such as .NET), it will likely not function without a full VM.
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Since somebody dragged this up, I used to want to support a linux version also, but after seeing how the mac fokes are doing, no thanks.
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jcc said:
Since somebody dragged this up, I used to want to support a linux version also, but after seeing how the mac fokes are doing, no thanks.
Yeah, the way things are going I'd like to even see a working Windows version. [:)]
I'll pass on the Linux version too. Besides, it'll probably only run on Caldera OpenLinux using Mono and Java for the gui glued to some 8 bit version of CP/M in a virtualbox instance to run a comma delimited text file as a database for each resource (decrypted of course, using the plastic decoder ring that used to come in each box of Lucky Charms cereal.)
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For forum efficiency, I sort of wish this thread would get locked so that a new one could be started! Who wants/can go back and read all these posts to create context for the last few pages?!? If people aren't doing that, then how do they know if this isn't becoming repetitive... kind of like the Hermeneutic Spiral I guess! [:D]
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hey guy's,
You don't need logo's for bible software for Linux, there are plenty of good programs already made for Linux.
There is Bibletime, Xiphos, Alkitab bible study, Firebible for Firefox and Bibledesktop.
Logos is not worth the hassle, nor is E-sword.
You can get most of your favorite apps in the bible software for Linux, Plus it's the only true way to brake away from M$.
I have been using Mandriva Linux exclusively for over a year now and I don't dual boot either, M$ is not worth it. Also Mandriva is the Best Distro out there, IMHO
God Bless
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There is also http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=ubuntuce
Brian Whalen
http://www.mcnazarene.com
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troypulkrabek said:
You don't need logo's for bible software for Linux, there are plenty of good programs already made for Linux.
Welcome to the forums!
Agreed, there are some great open source projects out there. The big problem is that Bible software is not just the software reader, but the resources that you can obtain to install on it. Many of these programmes do not have the latest or a broad spectrum of scholarly works. I always encourage my friends to consider getting up to date Bible study materials because there have been such advancements made in new discoveries and research.
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It would be great if this could be set up on Linux using crossover or some other wine based software. I"m pretty much a Linux user and since this software isn't ported to Linux, I can' t use it.
Jim
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Bob P., if you're still watching this thread, what are the chances that when Logos 4 is finished, you might turn the Logos 3 source over to the open source community to either work the WINE bugs out or engineer a Linux version?
Or... sell the source to a group chartered for that purpose (in the event that it doesn't work financially to give it away).
Of course, completely opening the source would create problems for control of the resources but if it's sold to an organization (or "licensed") to one that is legally obligated to protect it. Just tossing out ideas here. I've seen some pretty cool Linux games get developed in through model sort of like this, though the resource issue was a nonfactor in that case.
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Aaron Blumer said:
Bob P., if you're still watching this thread, what are the chances that when Logos 4 is finished, you might turn the Logos 3 source over to the open source community to either work the WINE bugs out or engineer a Linux version?
[Y]
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free", John 8:32.
"你們必定認識真理，真理必定使你們自由", 約翰福音 8:3.0 -
I actually stopped using Libronix because I ditched MS completely. I know I lost several resources and books I bought, but I could not take M$ anymore. I am very pleased with Ubuntu CE (Christian Edition) which cames with "The Word" Bible software. I have never used it before but I am very impressed with it and there are plenty of resource, I would even dare to say more than e-sword. I also work with computers (hardware) and I have installed Ubuntu in most of my friends (because otherwise I have to fix their viruses every month....for free) and they are very happy...And me too, some of them have not called me to fix their pc in more than a year! A true miracle. I now started to promote Linux among the church and I am giving classes of e-sword and soon The Word.
I miss Libronix, but I believe the future would be opensource so I am invest in it. It would not surprise me that soon would have a bible software that would be of the quality of Libronix for the open source machines. In the mind time, I use The Word, with resources that it would take me several years to go through in their entirety.
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Engines aren't the problem--resources are. Since open-source is usually equated with "free" publishers won't license new academic titles for use on the said engine. Old resources are helpful, but up-to-date reference works are very helpful for scholarly study (if not necessary). One could say that a company like Logos could make their free engine open source and still charge for resources, but the problem with having the engine source code for all the world to see is that someone would find a way to crack the DRM and steal books--Christians DO steal stuff (heck, I'm included in that group at times--I'm trying to quit) This is why an open source Bible Engine is limited.
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FabianLazarte said:
I actually stopped using Libronix because I ditched MS comple
Please read the forum guidelines. We are asked not to name competitors products because of the way browsers select postings. You could still edit the posting to resolve the problem.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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