Linux version of Logos Bible Software
Comments
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Cloud computing is fine if you have a fast and reliable internet connection with a big download limit, but not everyone has that.
Regards,
Nigel
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How does cloud computing apply to Logos?
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WilliamLaky said:
Logos should go in the direction of cloud computing like the rest of the world.
Which world do you belong to?
Remember that user files in the cloud have limitations; size is one, privacy another and the fact you cannot use it offline.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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AndrewPitonyak said:
How does cloud computing apply to Logos?
Thankfully, Logos see it as an adjunct to what we keep on our PC - look for posts from Bob Pritchett (Logos CEO) e.g. Conceivably, we could deliver some richer experience through Moonlight,
since we'll be using .NET technology moving forward (in relation to Logos on Linux).Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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My feelings on this are quite strong, and very simple.
I will *never* choose to pay for software that is outside of MY control.
Once I buy it, I own the rights to it (for my use, that is). A cloud environment allows someone to take away my use of it if they choose - and my only recourse would be legal action.
I will *never* willingly put myself into that situation, if any other option (such as harcover) exists.
Period.=============
Redeeming the time (Eph.5:16+Col.4:5) ... Win 10, iOS & iPadOS 16
Jim Dean0 -
JimDean said:
My feelings on this are quite strong, and very simple.
I agree, including the Period[:)] I like to keep my feet on firm ground.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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JimDean said:
My feelings on this are quite strong, and very simple. I will *never* choose to pay for software that is outside of MY control. Once I buy it, I own the rights to it (for my use, that is). A cloud environment allows someone to take away my use of it if they choose - and my only recourse would be legal action. I will *never* willingly put myself into that situation, if any other option (such as harcover) exists. Period.
They can take my Logos off my computer when they pry my cold dead hands off the keyboard.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Bob Pritchett said:
(Conceivably, we could deliver some
richer experience through Moonlight, since we'll be using .NET
technology moving forward. We'll have to see.)Actually
I was waiting for a comment like that one Bob. With the shift away
from Com/IE backbone I would anticipate that Mono/moonlight and
wine/crossover may have a much better chance of running Libronix
natively on Linux.I wonder about the potential of hiring one
Linux UberGeek once 4.0 is out the door. Tell him His job is to work
with crossover/wine and make it work. Give him a set period of time to
do everything he can do.Of course it's possible that Mono has already done the work necessary to bring Libronix to Linux.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
There is also the security privacy concern with cloud computing, at least for now.
Brian Whalen
http://www.mcnazarene.com
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George Somsel said:JimDean said:
My feelings on this are quite strong, and very simple. I will *never* choose to pay for software that is outside of MY control. Once I buy it, I own the rights to it (for my use, that is). A cloud environment allows someone to take away my use of it if they choose - and my only recourse would be legal action. I will *never* willingly put myself into that situation, if any other option (such as harcover) exists. Period.
They can take my Logos off my computer when they pry my cold dead hands off the keyboard.
Add my vote to the "No Cloud, Never, Ever" list
Jack
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JackCaviness said:
Add my vote to the "No Cloud, Never, Ever" list
Maybe in another 10 years North America, Europe and parts of Asia will have 100% internet coverage through some form, but at the present moment there are too many places that I go that don't have access. Presumably, a percentage of Logo's customers live permanently in these areas that don't have internet access, and that's before we start to take into consideration missionaries, Bible translators, etc. who span the globe working in non-connected areas. To have to be tethered to the internet to use my Bible programme would not be a good thing. I could see the lines getting blurred in the future, but in the foreseeable future there has to be an offline mode. Even with Google apps, I can access my calendar, contacts and email without having to connect.
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The internet can be a distraction for me, so often I take my laptop to a place without any internet to do my sermon preparation, Doctoral studies, etc. I also spend time at my parents house, and they have no internet connection. Being permanently tied to the internet, is not a positive for me personally.0
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Hi all!
I too am hanging out for a Linux version. I realise that the market share is probably not high enough to make a full port commercially viable right now. But I suspect that getting it to run under wine would not involve that many man hours. (Then again, who knows! From experience, these things tend to escalate!)
A year or so ago, I managed to at least get the basic interface up and running (ie. the main window showed; minus all toolbars etc.) Every now and again I jump in and spend one of my days off trying to diagnose exactly where wine is falling short.
I guess I'll just keep trying with each new version of wine!
Niholas
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Ok....dumb question:
What is the advantage of running Libronix using VMware/Windows?
Why not dual-boot?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Ok....dumb question:
What is the advantage of running Libronix using VMware/Windows?
Why not dual-boot?
Dual booting separates your operating systems of course and creates a very real possibility of having documents in one OS (Linux) and Libronix in the other OS (Windows). Now if you're writing a document and need to research something you have to reboot your system into another OS to research and then hope you can remember it well enough to get back to your word processor when you reboot again.
It is possible to install two instances of your word processor (Say OpenOffice.org) in both Windows and Linux and then make your documents accessible from both OS' but then you lose the benefit of one OS or the other depending on which one you are using.
Virtual computing (VMWARE - etc) enable you to share the benefits of multiple OS simultaneously.
For example, boot into Linux as your base operating system, load a virtual system (e.g. windows + Libronix) and get all the security benefits of Linux and the programs you prefer while still having access to Libronix in it's native (windows) environment. Properly set up you can then share your clipboard contents from one OS to the Other and voila, all the benefits of both OS' are yours.
This all may become moot if Moonlight and Mono can run Libronix 4 in Linux, but we'll have to wait at least until some kind of beta stage to begin testing that. Or perhaps wait until full gold release.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
The only advantage would be that you do not need to dual boot. Windows has sometimes responded poorly to a dual boot and over-written the dual boot loaders...
Of course, the disadvantage to VMWare, is that running directly is more performant.
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2 things:
1) I say NO to cloud computing. My internet went out yesterday for several hours. If Logos had been in the cloud, I could not have done my study. That would not have been a good day.
2) I will probably be revealing huge ignorance with this idea, but here goes: Rather than write a new Logos for Linix, is it possible to write some sort of porting software to make the windows version work? Kind of like a custom version of Wine? It would only be for Linux and would do nothing to help other windows programs. I would pay for it. Seems like an easier and cheaper way to get it done - if it can be done at all.
I want to switch over to Linux via Ubuntu, but Logos is the only thing keeping me from making the jump. I will give you money for this Logos! [8-|]iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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Hiya Jerry,
1 - couldn't agree with you more.
2 - writing a custom version of wine just doesn't make sense, I'm afraid. In the windows world, things are pretty interconnected. Porting software just for Libronix would end up looking like just a subset of wine! I think the best bet is getting Wine (or the Codeweavers version of it, at least!) to run Libronix properly. Believe it or not, it's not that far away. Might I suggest heading over to Codeweavers and casting your vote? If lots of people do that, the developers of wine might find some justification for working on getting it running!
Nicholas
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How about writing logos for linux so I can run it under maemo with the Nokia N900 phone.
Actually, a lot of the linux development can be cross compiled onto Macs and PCs, but not the other way around. It's probably too late for this, but I wished that when they developed logos for Mac, they done it with a more linux centric view and also allow it to compiled to the MAC (and PC) platform in addition to linux.
Right now, that's they only thing that's keeping me from switching to linux. (I did run linux for awhile, but running logos under vmware is too slow, and dual boot is too cumbersome).
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I doubt we'll see a 100% cloud experience with Logos anytime soon, but I'm figuring that there will be some kind of hybrid functionality. I wouldn't be surprised if the online stuff isn't so much a replacement for the the current experience as it is a supplement to it. For every Logos user who has experienced an internet service outage, how many have experienced a situation where they did not have access to their computer? It would be nice to have some kind of online access. For example, if I were to buy a netbook, I might not even want to install a full version of Logos, just as I might not want to install Microsoft Office; but it would be nice to have some kind of online version that I can sign into in order to access at least some books. I can see me using something like that in conjunction with Google Docs or the upcoming online version of Office in a pinch.
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Yes but Bob, the same thing was said about Mac and look what a success that was. Lunix and iPhone could be the next big thing for Logos. :-)
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Add one more to that Linux count. My church/staff is going Linux for a variety of reasons.
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Yes, I would love to see a Linux version of Logos. I too am stuck using a dual boot/virtual machine for Logos with Linux -- it's not ideal.
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You know, you all could just switch to Mac and have all the benefits of a UNIX system and Logos...more customers might get the Mac Engine up to par with Windows faster[8o|] I do admit that last remark was kind of selfish...[:$]
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I suppose it is possible, but not likely. Bob has said recently that this is not a direction they will be pursuing right now because the market is simply not there. Unless...
Some smart guys have written something to get the windows version to run under Linux. That would be pretty cool. If not Linux, then what?
Prob. nothing to do with Mac. They just released an update to that. Maybe another super-good deal like the Luther collection this summer or the past Christmas offers. I wish I would have had the money when they did those.
I will hope for some movement in the Linux direction. But I am not staying up until 2am!
Jerry
iMac (2019 model), 3Ghz 6 Core Intel i5, 16gb Ram, Radeon Pro Graphics. 500GB SSD.
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They fixed a bug, nothing new was added. Though I suppose you are right...[:(]...I want more features....[:'(]
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Pastor Jerry Bush said:
me smart guys have written something to get the windows version to run under Linux. That would be pretty cool. If not Linux, then what?
My opinion is that choosing to work on a Mac version without considering a multi-platform framework such as QT, or even working with the code weavers people demonstrates little to no interest in a Linux version. I will stop short of calling it foolishness given that I do not fully understand the decision making process. Having spent significant time with people that are fully engrossed in the Microsoft development process, most of them are not aware of life outside the Microsoft realm and are likely not sufficiently versed in the available options to accomplish such a task.
Microsoft does many things well. Some call them evil given their ruthless, and perhaps illegal, methods used to squash the competition. On the other hand, they produce a very nice development environment. If you can afford the cost of admission for their development tools, it is a nice sandbox in which to play. I have spent much time both in and out of that sandbox... From a development perspective, If my primary focus were Windows and there was not good cause, I would likely stay in that sand box.
Last I used Logos, it was a great product. I believe that your best bet for Logos, however, is to figure out how to run the version you have Under Linux rather than hope for a Linux version.
I believe that Logos hired Windows developers that drank the Windows Kool-Aid so they are very well versed in the secret internal workings of Windows. The good thing is that they are then able to wring out every last drop of performance and "coolness". Unfortunately, it also makes the product less stable in other environments (because they use things that are less used and thus less supported by "compatibility wrappers"). The end result is that I have always failed to make Logos work on anything but a full version of Windows. Each time I have tried, I seem to get farther, but I lack the time to fully pursue and attempt to determine all the issues and maybe find a work around.
Even if I do find the work around, I will need to do this with a Logos expert around to help me get all of my books back and working. That is the part of the game where I call my "mommy", who has done this many times. Each time, the Logos support team have worked hard to make things right.
It is unfortunate that there is not more support for a Linux version. If there were, and if those desiring the product were willing to put-up the money for the required development, then there would certainly be a Linux version. For all my wising and complaining, it is not clear to me that Logos would make money with a Linux version. How many of you here would put-up another $200 to pay a developer to spend time adjusting the Wrappers so that the Windows version worked fine on Linux? If ten people did that, a crossover engineer could take a long look at the problem. Not a guarantee that things could be made to work, but you get the idea.
Sorry, just in the mood to ramble I suppose.
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AndrewPitonyak said:
For all my wising and complaining, it is not clear to me that Logos would make money with a Linux version.
I agree.
Aside from the statistics which can be found on the net about the market share of Windows, Mac, and Linux, I can say from personal experience I know only one person who uses Linux as a desktop O.S. The rest are on Windows or Apple. As I am a bit of a geek when it comes to computers, I wind up talking tech to a lot of users. While there is a lot of affection for Linux, particularly when it comes to server applications, no one except that one person expresses any interest in Linux as a desktop O.S. On the other hand, I know a LOT of long term hard core windows users that have moved to Macs in the last two years. It seems like every month there is another die hard Windows user that has bought an Apple Mac.
I know this is anecdotal evidence, but combine this with market stats from various researchers, I would guess if we sat in a management meeting at Logos, I would have a hard time making a good case for support to build a Linux version and not lose money, at least in the near term future. If Windows 7 turns out to be a bomb like Vista did, who knows? Things might be different as users look to altnernatives. The hype about Windows 7 indicates that all the problems about Vista are behind us, but then again I remember when Vista was in beta I heard similar things. If one assumes that Windows 7 is half way decent, then certainly XP users who have been holding out will most likely upgrade and stay within that OS. Vista users who aren't too unhappy will probably upgrade when their machines start to age. So the end result is little churn of users from one OS to another. In this case, Windows to Mac or Linux.
So, if I was parting with hard earned cash in this challenging economic climate, I would be plowing it into development where I know I can make money. At present, the bread and butter of Logos is its Windows user base. Hopefully the uptake of the Mac version is strong enough that it merits similar investment. Linux? I doubt it any time soon.
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They'd make money. Remember that they sell books, not the software itself.
The trouble with going off market statistics is that they're just statistics. Linux users like myself are hidden because we're using Windows as well via VMware or dual booting or such like, even if we're only using it because we have to for Logos.
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