Some changes in the Verbum business section

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792693#Comment_792693

It is sad that it happened but Bob in the end has to make the decision he feels is best for Faithlife. I am not Catholic... many of my in-laws are. I know many of the priests are big adopters of technology, too the point that at one time shortly after the iPads release it was declared liturgically an iPad could not replace a book (i do not remember if it was missal or lectionary but obviously a wide enough occurrence to demand official response). I have some catholic friends who study the Bible intently and many who never open a Bible. What is the answer? I do not know, I honestly do think a Lexham English Bible Catholic edition and an expansion of the Faithlife Study Bible to include the Apocrypha would have brought in more users... I know of Catholics who only want to use catholic things... I would bet FL found out the same thing which is why the brought out Verbum, but even the inexpensive Catechism Study Package (Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.) ), if it could have been expanded to include something like the (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture) it may have been more successful. Or perhaps it was that the Verbum never advertised it greatly. What i mean is when going to see purchase options Basic seems to be the most inexpensive way to get into Verbum. Now I know FL wants people to get a base package, but I have often felt wetting ones appetite with an affordable type package is a good way to move people to discover the power of what verbum has to offer.

-Dan

DAL

My prayers go out to those who lost their job and hopefully sales will pick up next year.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792693#Comment_792693

I know many of the priests are big adopters of technology, too the point that at one time shortly after the iPads release it was declared liturgically an iPad could not replace a book (i do not remember if it was missal or lectionary but obviously a wide enough occurrence to demand official response).

The bishops of New Zealand ruled that, in New Zealand, electronic devices could not be substituted for the official (paper) Missal because iPads etc. also have profane (i.e., non-sacred) purposes.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792705#Comment_792705

The bishops of New Zealand ruled that, in New Zealand, electronic devices could not be substituted for the official (paper) Missal because iPads etc. also have profane (i.e., non-sacred) purposes.

Thanks for the clarification. I do disagree with them, for even a paper Missal could be used to contain profane things. A tablet could be devoted to only that which is holy. But that is for the Bishops to decide I suppose what is usable.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792711#Comment_792711

I do disagree with them, for even a paper Missal could be used to contain profane things.

There are a myriad of considerations. For example, some parishioners will love a priest who recites the Gospel from memory; others will see it as making the Gospel private rather than public as in a printed book. Others will be concerned with the quality of the Gospels which are used in procession - wanting them to reflect the giving of our best (art, binding, etc. of God). In the case of the Missal, there is still the consideration of appearance of giving the best to God. There is also the consideration of a server holding an iPad ... glare on a screen is more of a problem for graceful assistance than a paper page. On the other hand, if you have hiked 4 days to a church that gets a priest for services only twice a year (situation of a specific set of churches in Tibet) if you are sure your iPad will work, it is much lighter than a Missal. Just saying that regardless of their reasoning, it is reasonable to prefer bound books to iPads as the norm - with exceptions.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792718#Comment_792718

I prefer books for services... that said I am a hypocrite in that I take an iPad to church... we as church read out of a small nice 3 ring binder, indeed our church uses no translation but an inclusive rendering of the lectionary. I half envision some future after books are historical items and someone holding up a gold iPad next to the ratty falling apart book... I know it will not come to that, I do think back to the Anglican Cathedral of the Redeemer in Calgary.... with the same gospel binder that contains our readings at St. Stephen's, but on the lectern a huge ornate KJV Bible, always open to dead centre where the NRSV readings where paper clipped Old Testament and Epistle.

-Dan

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792730#Comment_792730

I can't believe that the question whether an iPad is too profane for liturgical use decides about whether a Catholic priest would purchase Verbum or not. You can equip an iPad with the necessary resources for $20 to $50.... No need for a $600 base package for that, and I assume base packages sales would largely contribute to the required revenue....

My guess would be lack of localization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country#By_country

I'm not aware of any Verbum localizations at all, but given the fact that Catholicism is in the minority in all major English speaking countries (except for the Philippines), that would seem highly relevant to me.

It's sad to see Verbum decline in such a way. I grew up in a 80% Catholic environment, and the Catholic church did have an impact on my spiritual and social life as a youth.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792740#Comment_792740

It's sad to see Verbum decline in such a way.

I think we need to take a wait and see approach rather than assume it is a decline. We need to see if this results in some obvious steps: (a) creation of a Catholic forum (b) assignment of a Catholic product manager (c) additional support for Louis in development in a broader context (liturgical rather than strictly "Catholic") (d) continued flow of high quality Catholic resources ... In short, if Bob can keep Verbum's momentum going at a lower cost, my attitude is "can we use the savings for development?"

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792740#Comment_792740

I can't believe that the question whether an iPad is too profane for liturgical use decides about whether a Catholic priest would purchase Verbum or not.

Likewise. Furthermore, I doubt that Verbum has had too much trouble marketing itself to Catholic clergy, at least in North America.

I'm not aware of any Verbum localizations at all, but given the fact that Catholicism is in the minority in all major English speaking countries (except for the Philippines), that would seem highly relevant to me.

Verbum is specifically targeting Spanish-reading and bilingual English- and Spanish-reading Catholics as well as monolingual English-readers. See https://es.verbum.com/

Bruce Roth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792693#Comment_792693

I have some catholic friends who study the Bible intently and many who never open a Bible. What is the answer? I do not know, I honestly do think a Lexham English Bible Catholic edition and an expansion of the Faithlife Study Bible to include the Apocrypha would have brought in more users... I know of Catholics who only want to use catholic things... I would bet FL found out the same thing which is why the brought out Verbum,

I appreciate all the efforts that FL has taken to bring Catholic resources to us. I jumped on Verbum because of the resources that became available. I am not Catholic but I resonate with a lot of it's practices and have a desire to gain more exposure to church history that has deep roots in the Catholic stream. I think it would be a hard market to crack open with Bible software. Even in my rich reformed traditions, even here in a university town, there are few folks that would be interested in Logos software other than something on their mobile devices. I know from some friends that the Catholic Church is trying to get folks to immerse themselves in scripture more, but I agree that for some if it isn't catholic they are suspicious of it. At the same time I have my protestant friends who are suspicious of my interest in church fathers and other types of catholic writings.

I see the value of FL products for the layperson and want to see the bringing out of new resources to continue.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792760#Comment_792760

I appreciate all the efforts that FL has taken to bring Catholic resources to us.

Mee 2.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792812#Comment_792812

I deeply appreciate Verbum... and like MJ I am not sure one should morn too quickly... it is not being abandoned just scaled back. I wish every Christian could have a passion for serious study of the Bible. Because many have no idea of the rich wonders and idea that are there. Some people assume that a study of the Bible will make people small minded and bigoted. I feel the exact opposite is closer to the truth... I will admit people can focus on sections to justify ones currents beliefs. But for every one only reading Ezra's anti gentile rhetoric there are many reading the more all embracing Isaiah and Jonah. Good seeds have been planted for Verbum, God willing the Spirit will move and many more will come on board... Releasing the new edition of Benedictine Daily Prayer might go a long way to drawing people in... It is not the Liturgy of the Hours, but it is a very solid prayer book. And what better thing than allowing one easily to study the daily Biblical text.

-Dan

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/792832#Comment_792832

In my opinion this whole "Verbum" thing was a huge mistake from the start. First, why name it differently? Second, why have these other names for the base packages (e.g. Verbum basic, Foundation, Capstone, etc.)? They are a total turn off! Aren't the words "basic" and "foundation" used as synonyms? They should have kept things in line with the original product and just name it Logos Catholic and then do Logos Catholic Starter, Bronze, etc. Rookie business mistake, if you ask me - no wonder they're having a hard time getting exposure! I can assure you the other denominational base packages are doing better since they get exposure by default since they're part of the "Logos" brand. After using Verbum there is no need to have these "Catholic" data sets, when you can pretty much accomplish the same thing using Logos standard data sets.

I hope they consider doing away for good with Verbum and just rename it to be in line with the original Logos brand. You will have better sales, that's for sure and you can keep people around a little bit longer. My advice is shut Verbum down and rename it to fit the original brand like it should have been from the beginning!

DAL

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793162#Comment_793162

Dal, I have met too many people who regard anything Catholic as a work of the devil and keep a good distance from anything that they perceive to be tainted by Catholics. My patience is not good enough to spend much time in their company. At one time I was labeled "a catholic lover" by some Scottish non-conformist relatives. Intended to be an insult but a title that (as a non-conformist) I wore with pride.

I understand an equivalent attitude is present amongst some Catholics. My understanding is that the perception of the existence of these two attitudes was a significant reason for the split in identities between Logos and Verbum.

However, whether many members of either group would every become customers of FL is another matter. Within my admittedly very limited circle the answer would be no.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793309#Comment_793309

However, whether many members of either group would every become customers of FL is another matter.

Unfortunately, I've been on the forums long enough that members of both groups have posted inappropriately on the forums. Fortunately, the problem seems to have receded with only an occasional newbie needing to be reminded that this is not the place to express such views.

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793309#Comment_793309

Dal, I have met too many people who regard anything Catholic as a work of the devil and keep a good distance from anything that they perceive to be tainted by Catholics. My patience is not good enough to spend much time in their company. At one time I was labeled "a catholic lover" by some Scottish non-conformist relatives. Intended to be an insult but a title that (as a non-conformist) I wore with pride.

I understand an equivalent attitude is present amongst some Catholics. My understanding is that the perception of the existence of these two attitudes was a significant reason for the split in identities between Logos and Verbum.

However, whether many members of either group would every become customers of FL is another matter. Within my admittedly very limited circle the answer would be no.

Yep, unfortunately attitudes are the problem. Personally, I treat Catholics resources as any other resource - I buy what I think I need and/or looks interesting. It's a matter of learning for me. While I do have my own convictions that doesn't mean I blind myself to other views, but I guess not everyone feels the same way. This is just my opinion but maybe reading too much into the attitudes and separating the two is what caused "Verbum" not to have the reception the other packages had. My take is merge the two and switch the names to fit the original line of products. It might help, it might not but it's better to do that and not risk losing more money.

DAL

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793331#Comment_793331

One of the problems is that to get senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos it has been important that "inappropriate" resources are not thrust into the way of the laity, there have been several threads in the past on this subject so passage guides etc have to be appropriately curated. I believe that it is for this deliberately reason that there has been a separate product and marketing development.

The problem is that this has lead to expensive head office duplication and a fragmentation of the infrastructure, but on the more positive side we have seen a lot of very valuable resources (and I am thinking particularly of patristics here) being brought to Logos.

I just hope that the much hoped for Latin tools actually materialise but I begin to doubt it as the most natural market for these would be Roman Catholic, Noet does not appear to have developed much in this regard.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793345#Comment_793345

One of the problems is that to get senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos ...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos." Can you clarify?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793387#Comment_793387

One of the problems is that to get senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos ...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos." Can you clarify?

Imprimatur

Is possibly what he means... This is an important reason for Verbum. To allow for a doctrinally pure item you can trust. An official Imprimatur style approval for Verbum would me it can be trusted.... Yes we had priests telling us it could be trusted and great to use but I am not aware of any issued statement from a Cardinal or more likely a Bishop offering an endorsement. But this is somewhat understandable... to give a book such approval is somewhat different from a computer program.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793399#Comment_793399

Sure. I understand the imprimatur and nihil obstat. Those are applied to content in books and other publications. We have many in the Verbum catalog already.

However, I don't recall ever hearing of ecclesial approval applied to software or broadcast content at this point. Even the software put out for use by ecclesial bodies such as national or regional conferences of bishops have no imprimatur that I am aware. Hence my question.

I'm not understanding what is the basis for the comment that Logos would be seeking "senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos".

Are you aware of any such approvals being done for software?

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793387#Comment_793387

One of the problems is that to get senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos ...

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "senior Roman Catholic approval for Logos." Can you clarify?

I was referring to previous posts from priests who wished to recommend Logos to their laity but were loath to do so when it pointed to "objectionable" material, Logos responded by explaining that this should not be happening with Verbum. I was not suggesting an official imprinteur although I am sure Logos would love that to happen.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793404#Comment_793404

Can you point me to those posts, please?

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793412#Comment_793412

Can you point me to those posts, please?

The posts I were thinking of concerned the sermon sections which had "unsavoury" links, I am afraid that the search ability on the forum is so limited it makes finding them very difficult.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793414#Comment_793414

Can you point me to those posts, please?

The posts I were thinking of concerned the sermon sections which had "unsavoury" links.

Perhaps an example of an "unsavoury" link?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793415#Comment_793415

Perhaps an example of an "unsavoury" link?

For example some reformers got very nasty and negative, as a reaction to the Oxford movement in the 19th century some people became particularly nasty towards rome as one will see in J-F-B... that is not to say equally nasty things may have surfaced in some older catholic works too... I cannot see any priest in his right mind recommending Logos packages because they all had things that were down right anti catholic. Verbum packages were designed to be safe for recommending. As an Anglican i find many things objectionable about things in some resources... But in general I feel Protestants have a stronger history of tolerating various points of view I did not say accepting because I am not trying to say we do not have differences of doctrine and orthodoxy... But we do not say I cannot use this because it has anabaptist resources or I cannot use this because it has calvinist resources, etc....Because of the history of imprimatur RC have often felt very uneasy approaching things without approval and while you might get the occasional priest who might say use Logos, but be careful about some works... you would very possibly get the response isn;t there a catholic alternative??? In my mother in laws catholic church they literally have a set of Barclay's Daily Study Bible there, and that shocked me knowing it had no imprimatur or such... So it happens that RC will often use resources that are not approved... But there are still many of them out there wanting a stamp of approval... indeed we have to a lesser extent the same thing with the various denominational packages and the call that came out for a KJV only package that had resources for the KJV only people (I am not sure if other translations like NKJV and MKJV could be acceptable there, highly unlikely but that is another discussion).

-Dan

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793419#Comment_793419

Speaking as a protestant, we see Catholicism in general as a monolith when its really much more fragmented than that. I was amazed to see how many divisions made it into the theology and denomination tags project.

I had thought the only difference was between the roman and American varieties as I've had an ethnically American catholic family member insist they are nothing like roman catholics.

But again my knowledge and perspective is that of an outsider trying to look in and make sense of a very large system that it seems like (eg my cousin) not even all insiders seem to understand fully.

This really isn't the place for it, but the pope said something 5 days ago that flummoxed me. RE Atheists making it to heaven merely by doing good... Certainly is not where I understood catholic instruction RE redemption to be.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793419#Comment_793419

In my mother in laws catholic church they literally have a set of Barclay's Daily Study Bible there, and that shocked me knowing it had no imprimatur or such... So it happens that RC will often use resources that are not approved...

Barclay's DSB was frequently recommended for years and years on television and in print over then then-available modern Catholic commentaries by the late Venerable Fulton J. Sheen, so it's a bit of a special case.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793544#Comment_793544

Aargh I was within a sentence of finishing this post when the connection flaked out.

I had thought the only difference was between the roman and American varieties as I've had an ethnically American catholic family member insist they are nothing like roman catholics.

There is no American Catholic. There are "kinds" of Catholic according to Rites which Wikipedia gives as:

Catholic Church - 1,166 million^[3]
- Latin Church - 1,149 million
  - Catholic Charismatic Renewal - 160 million^[4]
  - Personal Ordinariate for former Anglicans - 0.005 million
- Eastern Catholic Churches - 17 million
  - Alexandrian Rite
    - Ethiopian Catholic Church - 0.2 million^[5]
    - Coptic Catholic Church - 0.2 million^[5]
  - Antiochene Rite
    - Maronite Catholic Church - 3.1 million^[5]
    - Syro-Malankara Catholic Church - 0.4 million^[5]
    - Syriac Catholic Church - 0.1 million^[5]
  - Armenian Rite
    - Armenian Catholic Church - 0.4 million^[5]
  - Chaldean Rite
    - Syro-Malabar Catholic Church - 3.8 million^[5]
    - Chaldean Catholic Church - 0.4 million^[5]
  - Byzantine Rite
    - Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church - 4.3 million^[5]
    - Melkite Greek Catholic Church - 1.3 million^[5]
    - Romanian Greek Catholic Church - 0.7 million^[5]
    - Ruthenian Catholic Church - 0.5 million^[5]
    - Hungarian Greek Catholic Church - 0.3 million^[5]
    - Slovak Greek Catholic Church - 0.2 million^[5]
    - Italo-Albanian Catholic Church - 0.1 million^[5]
    - Belarusian Greek Catholic Church - 0.1 million^[5]
    - Georgian Byzantine Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[6]
    - Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[5]
    - Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[5]
    - Croatian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[5]
    - Greek Byzantine Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[5]
    - Macedonian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[5]
    - Russian Greek Catholic Church - 0.01 million^[5]
Canonically irregular groups
- Society of St. Pius X - 0.5 million^[7]

Different regions have different inculturation so that you may find ethnic congregations e.g. our archdiocese has a Chinese congregation with their own building, priest, etc. but not specific parish boundaries.

when its really much more fragmented than that. I was amazed to see how many divisions made it into the theology and denomination tags project.

No it isn't fragmented unless you wish to say that the Eastern Orthodox/Oriental Orthodox/Catholic schisms are fragmentation. What you are seeing in the tagging are the Rites (see above) and the religious orders. The orders may be mixed in terms of Rites e.g. the Melkite Rite priest in Sacramento belongs to the Dominican Order which is predominately Latin Rite. Religious orders vary in emphasis both in their work and in their theology but this is akin to vocational emphasis as missionaries, teachers, nurses, preachers ... it does not reflect any fragmentation - simply God providing for the various needs of His people. Wikipedia on orders ... note the last paragraph:

Canons Regular
Official Name	Abbreviation	Common Name
Sacer et Apostolicus Ordo Canonicorum Regularium S. Augustini	C.R.S.A.	Canon Regulars, Augustinian Canons
Congregatio Sanctissimi Salvatoris Lateranensis	C.R.L.	Canons Regular of the Lateran
Candidus et Canonicus Ordo Praemonstratensis	O. Praem.	Norbertines or Premonstratensians
Ordo Canonicorum Regularium Sanctae Crucis	O.R.C.	Canons Regular of the Holy Cross of Coimbra
Ordo Fratrum Domus Hospitalis Sanctae Mariae Teutonicorum in Jerusalem	O.T.	(formerly Teutonic Knights) German Order
Canonici Regulares Ordinis S. Crucis	O.S.C.	Crosier Fathers and Brothers
Canonici Regulares Sanctissimae Crucis a stella rubea	O.M.C.R.S.	Knights of the Cross with the Red Star
Monastic Orders
Official Name	Abbreviation	Common Name
Ordo Sancti Benedicti	O.S.B.	Benedictines (20 congregations)
Congregatio Eremitarum Camaldulensium Montis Coronae	E.C.M.C.	Camaldolese
Ordo Cisterciensis	O. Cist.	Cistercians (13 congregations)
Ordo Cisterciensis Strictioris Observantiae	O.C.S.O.	Trappists
Ordo Cartusiensis	Cart.	Carthusians
Ordo Fratrum S. Pauli Primi Eremitae	O.S.P.P.E.	Pauline Fathers
Ordo Sancti Hieronymi	O.S.H.	Hieronymites
Ordo Libanensis Maronitarum	O.L.M.	Baladites
Mendicant orders
Official Name	Abbreviation	Common Name
Ordo Fratrum Praedicatorum	O.P.	Dominicans
Ordo Fratrum Minorum	O.F.M.	Franciscans
Ordo Fratrum Minorum Conventualium	O.F.M. Conv.	Conventual Franciscans
Ordo Fratrum Minorum Capuccinorum	O.F.M. Cap.	Capuchin Franciscans
Tertius Ordo Regularis S. Francisci	T.O.R.	Brothers of Penance
Sisters of the Holy Cross Menzingen	H.C.	Sisters of the Holy Cross
Ordo Fratrum Sancti Augustini	O.S.A.	Augustinian Friars
Ordo Augustinianorum Recollectorum	O.A.R.	Augustinians Recollects
Ordo Augustiniensium Discalceatorum	O.A.D.	Discalced Augustinians
Ordo Fratrum Beatissimae Mariae Virginis de Monte Carmelo	O. Carm.	Carmelites
Ordo Fratrum Discalceatorum B. Mariae V. de Monte Carmelo	O.C.D.	Discalced Carmelites
Ordo Ssmae Trinitatis	O.SS.T.	Trinitarians
Ordo B. Mariae Virginis de Mercede	O. de M.	Mercedarians
Ordo PP. Excalceatorum B.M.V. De Mercede	O.M.D.	Discalced Mercedarians
Ordo Servorum Mariae	O.S.M.	Servites
Ordo Minimorum	O.M.	Minims
Ordo Hospitalarius S. Ioannis de Deo	O.H.	St John of God Order
Ordo Fratrum Bethlemitarum	O.F.B.	Bethlehemites
Clerics Regular
Official Name	Abbreviations	Common Name
Ordo Clericorum Regularium vulgo Theatinorum	C.R.	Theatines
Congregatio Clericorum Regularium S. Pauli, Barnabitarum	B.	Barnabites
Societas Iesu	S.J.	Jesuits
Ordo Clericorum Regularium a Somascha	C.R.S.	Somascans
Ordo Clericorum Regularium Ministrantium Infirmis	M.I.	Camillians
Ordo Clericorum Regularium Minorum	C.R.M.	Clerics Regular Minor
Ordo Clericorum Regularium Matris Dei	O. M. D.	Clerics Regular of the Mother of God
Ordo Clericorum Regularium Pauperum Matris Dei Scholarum Piarum	Sch. P.	Piarists

The 2012 Annuario Pontificio, which devotes 19 pages to this information on Latin-Rite "orders" for men, gives 35 pages to Latin-Rite "congregations" for men, 7 to Eastern "orders, religious congregations and societies of apostolic life" for men, and 198 pages to more concise information on religious institutes for women.

This really isn't the place for it, but the pope said something 5 days ago that flummoxed me. RE Atheists making it to heaven merely by doing good...

Correct. This is not the place for it. Homework before this paragraph was written should have been Catechism of the Catholic Church 836-848

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793546#Comment_793546

In my mother in laws catholic church they literally have a set of Barclay's Daily Study Bible there, and that shocked me knowing it had no imprimatur or such... So it happens that RC will often use resources that are not approved...

Barclay's DSB was frequently recommended for years and years on television and in print over then then-available modern Catholic commentaries by the late Venerable Fulton J. Sheen, so it's a bit of a special case.

Thank you I did not know that I would assume another exception might be the Anchor Bible??? I just assumed with some catholic giants in there it might be???

-Dan

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793710#Comment_793710

Sorry MJ - much of what I know about Catholicism was written by protestants. The last book I read (is the reformation really over) seemed to think things were different.

Surprisingly I don't think I have the catechism.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793741#Comment_793741

It is very much a resource well worth owning. The item's MJ quoted were very insightful....

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.)

The first is essential for understanding Catholic thought a better package is the 9 volume which gives you a fairly complete look at catholic thought dogma...

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793741#Comment_793741

much of what I know about Catholicism was written by protestants

If you chose the worst possible sources, you will know less than nothing. The same would be true if I relied on Catholic authors to teach me about Protestants. The gulf in world-view and vocabulary is too great. High Lutherans and High Anglicans are truly a middle ground that helps us understand each other. For example, both Catholics and Evangelicals think of the Bible as inerrant ... but Catholics think "inerrant in truth" and many Evangelical think "inerrant in fact". One has to work hard at suspending presuppositions, listen closely and question everything to begin to understand what the other side of the gulf actually believes.

Stephen Terlizzi

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793752#Comment_793752

It is very much a resource well worth owning. The item's MJ quoted were very insightful....

Catechism of the Catholic Church

Catechism of the Catholic Church Collection (9 vols.)

The first is essential for understanding Catholic thought a better package is the 9 volume which gives you a fairly complete look at catholic thought dogma...

-Dan

I agree 110%. The Catechism provides an excellent summary of the teachings of the Catholic Church and, with Logos, easy hyperlinks to Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and writings of the Magisterium to support the teachings.

Agape,

Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793741#Comment_793741

Surprisingly I don't think I have the catechism.

You had mentioned in the original thread I started in the other forum that "I did buy a relatively significant verbum package". With that said, the Catechism is part of them all. Unless you live outside the U.S., I would be surprised if you did not have it.

[:)]

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793939#Comment_793939

Unless you live outside the U.S. ...

Thanks, you just solved a little mystery for me - I've been trying for the longest while to add the Catechism to my wishlist and it, stubbornly, just wouldn't go in. I was debating whether to post a thread about that, but now I realize it's because I'm outside the US! Geo restrictions, gotta love 'em.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793967#Comment_793967

Thanks, you just solved a little mystery for me - I've been trying for the longest while to add the Catechism to my wishlist and it, stubbornly, just wouldn't go in. I was debating whether to post a thread about that, but now I realize it's because I'm outside the US!

And Canada. Canadians can get the Catechism too. Others have to settle for this or this.

Yasmin Stephen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793976#Comment_793976

Thanks, you just solved a little mystery for me - I've been trying for the longest while to add the Catechism to my wishlist and it, stubbornly, just wouldn't go in. I was debating whether to post a thread about that, but now I realize it's because I'm outside the US!

And Canada. Canadians can get the Catechism too. Others have to settle for this or this.

Thanks for the links!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793976#Comment_793976

In addition to the ones offered previously, here is another site:

http://usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/index.cfm

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/794033#Comment_794033

Please see the recent update from Louis in the original post:

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/121092/794407.aspx#794407

Helpful comments and insight.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/794445#Comment_794445

Thanks for the links, turns out I do have it. I was searching in the search bar, rather than the library box. whoops. Thanks for the pointers.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/793710#Comment_793710

In my mother in laws catholic church they literally have a set of Barclay's Daily Study Bible there, and that shocked me knowing it had no imprimatur or such... So it happens that RC will often use resources that are not approved...

Barclay's DSB was frequently recommended for years and years on television and in print over then then-available modern Catholic commentaries by the late Venerable Fulton J. Sheen, so it's a bit of a special case.

Thank you I did not know that I would assume another exception might be the Anchor Bible??? I just assumed with some catholic giants in there it might be???

In academic settings, Catholics use non-Catholic Scripture commentaries all the time, whether they are ecumenical like the Anchor set or non-ecumenical and non-Catholic. But, as you know, most Catholics are not academics. The late Emmy-winning archbishop hosted a radio show and a TV show and wrote many books that were principally aimed at Catholics who were not academics. His oft-repeated recommendation of Barclay thus led to many Catholics who may not ever have had another Scripture commentary to buy Barclay's entire set. Likewise, many parish priests (who may or may not be academics) and parishes bought full or partial sets.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/794659#Comment_794659

In academic settings, Catholics use non-Catholic Scripture commentaries all the time, whether they are ecumenical like the Anchor set or non-ecumenical and non-Catholic. But, as you know, most Catholics are not academics. The late Emmy-winning archbishop hosted a radio show and a TV show and wrote many books that were principally aimed at Catholics who were not academics. His oft-repeated recommendation of Barclay thus led to many Catholics who may not ever have had another Scripture commentary to buy Barclay's entire set. Likewise, many parish priests (who may or may not be academics) and parishes bought full or partial sets.

As a non-Catholic, I use some Catholic commentaries with some regularity. After all, I'm informed enough to spot their heterodox opinions. [;)]