I want to buy LOGOS 6 but all the comments I have seen comments about LOGOS 7 coming (not sure when but it's coming). Should I just wait until version 7 or get 6 and pay for the upgrade ?
When Logos 6 was released, they announced (I believe) a two year update cycle. So I would get 6 now, 7 will be a ways away.
Welcome to the forums Joe. I don't think there is any good reason to wait for Logos 7. It could be a year or more away. Get Logos 6 today and discover a world of amazing Bible study tools.
No date for Logos 7 has been announced yet - speculation is that Fall 2016 will be when it is released but no one knows for sure. As a user who came in with Logos 3, I would advice you to go ahead and buy now if you want to be a Logos user. There is no real advantage to waiting because every time a new version has come out, existing owners have been given credit for the resources they own and offered an upgrade at a minimal cost - less than $200 which covers the new resources necessary to unleash the new capabilities. There will also be great prices on upgrading your base package to a higher level when Logos 7 hits the market. Again, you will be paying for the new resources - not what you already have.
Another reason to go ahead now: you will be learning and using Logos 6 for many months before 7 comes out. If you wait, you will lose the benefit of the next months.
Bottom line: if you want Logos and can afford it, go for it now!
No date for Logos 7 has been announced yet - speculation is that Fall 2016 will be when it is released but no one knows for sure. As a user who came in with Logos 3, I would advice you to go ahead and buy now if you want to be a Logos user. There is no real advantage to waiting because every time a new version has come out, existing owners have been given credit for the resources they own and offered an upgrade at a minimal cost - less than $200 which covers the new resources necessary to unleash the new capabilities. There will also be great prices on upgrading your base package to a higher level when Logos 7 hits the market. Again, you will be paying for the new resources - not what you already have. Another reason to go ahead now: you will be learning and using Logos 6 for many months before 7 comes out. If you wait, you will lose the benefit of the next months. Bottom line: if you want Logos and can afford it, go for it now!
[Y] Yes! What he said!
if you do buy, email a sales rep (cliff khavidal is my recommendation this week) and mention my name, you'll get I think 150$ in extra books, and I get I think 100$ in books, or store credit, or something like that. Really you could mention any of our names :P but I hope you toss mine out there.Here is the offer from Logos:"It’s pretty simple—when a friend or family member calls a Resource Expert at 1-888-875-9491, they just need to say you referred them. Upon purchase of a new Logos 6 base package (valued over $500), they’ll receive 10% off and a $150 book bundle from Lexham Press as a special thank you, and you’ll receive a $100 Logos credit on your account."
[Y]
Another reason is that there might be a set of commentaries or collection that may not be available in a base package when L7 comes out; e.g. NIGTC and Pillar NTC were not available in L5 and those are great up-to-date sets to have
DAL
Another reason is that there might be a set of commentaries or collection that may not be available in a base package when L7 comes out; e.g. NIGTC and Pillar NTC were not available in L5 and those are great up-to-date sets to have DAL
Great point. I had thought about this angle, and did not realize these two commentary sets were not in L5. I agree completely with this reason as well - the Pillar NTC in particular is an incredible value.
Should I just wait until version 7 or get 6 and pay for the upgrade ?
I'm going to be the contrarian, but I'd say wait. You know it is coming, so why pay twice? You'll be able to use the money you save for a bigger base package, more resources you want, etc. In fact, knowing it is coming allows you to save some money and avoid buying anything on credit.
Buy now, start getting free resources and learn Logos. It will be nothing but good for you. I never regretted making the move to Logos.
You know it is coming, so why pay twice?
How do you figure anyone would pay twice? If you purchase Logos 6 now, you will not have to purchase anything in that package again to upgrade to Logos 7. If the contents of the base packages are changed in 7—which is very likely—you only pay for the new resources. There will be a charge for the new features of 7, but waiting to purchase Logos will not change that. Waiting will also deprive a person of the use of Logos for several months between now and the eventual release of version 7.
I would not wait. For the reasons above. Get it now, learn it, use it, and then just upgrade when necessary.
Make sure you understand who you're getting advice from - mostly from people who are very "into" Logos (and very generous with their time to help others with problems with the software).
You don't have to look very far back in these forums to find that many (most?) of these guys who have or will answer this question for you have paid thousands, to tens of thousands of dollars on Logos. For them, it is very much worth buying a version, and then paying for the features and benefits of the new version when it comes out. If that is where you are at, then you should listen to their great advice (to go ahead and buy now, and then pay for an upgrade later).
You have been told here that there is no reason not to, because when version 7 comes out, you can get the base engine for free, and then just pay for the new resources you like. It may or may not work like that for you. "Crossgrades" (the new features that come with the new engine) do not any longer cost "less than $200." In fact, the crossgrades start at $400, and go up to $800. What most people on this forum do is just buy new packages with the new engine. They usually reshuffle the books in these packages, so that buying a new package can give you hundreds or thousands of books. They subtract the cost of the books you already have, so you are not paying for those again. So, if you want hundreds or thousands of new books that you largely haven't heard of, then this is a great deal. If you are not interested in mass quantities of electronic books you've never heard of, it might not be such a great deal. Unless you have a pretty massive collection already, I believe it will still cost you much more than $200 to buy a new package, even with your existing books subtracted.
If you buy version 6 now, you WILL be able to download the core engine for version 7 for free at some point in the future. However, this doesn't mean you will have all the features you have with version 6, in your core engine for version 7. They sometimes (always?) strip away some features from old versions, when they come out with their new versions, and often provide new or other ways to do similar things in their advanced features, which are not included in the base engine. So, for instance, I have not purchased the crossgrade for versions 4, 5, or 6. I can still access all my books I've bought, all the way back to 1996. However, I can't access them the same way I could with previous versions. I can't link them together they way I used to be able to, I can't search from within Biblical texts nearly as efficiently. There are ways around most of this, and if I purchased the new features, I might be able to do some of those things a different way, and do other new and cool things. However, because I haven't, I have definitely lost some functionality.
Okay, that may be a longer answer than you wanted, but all that to say, if you are willing to pay hundreds or thousands for an upgrade, I would agree with most here, and say go ahead. If you are not looking to do that, I would consider waiting. Logos is a great tool, but keeping up with the new features of each new version is, for some of us, pretty expensive. Your options then would be to buy a lower cost option from another company, or use online tools, and wait for version 7. At least that will keep you in the best features of a new version for a couple of years.
So, for instance, I have not purchased the crossgrade for versions 4, 5, or 6. I can still access all my books I've bought, all the way back to 1996. However, I can't access them the same way I could with previous versions. I can't link them together they way I used to be able to, I can't search from within Biblical texts nearly as efficiently. There are ways around most of this, and if I purchased the new features, I might be able to do some of those things a different way, and do other new and cool things. However, because I haven't, I have definitely lost some functionality.
Can you give some specific examples of this?
And are you comparing against Libronix or from Logos 4 onward?
I tried to answer this question a few years ago right after we launched Logos 5. The numbers and content are outdated, but the principles still apply.
Why You Shouldn’t Wait until Logos 6 to Upgrade
In fact, the crossgrades start at $400, and go up to $800.
That's before dynamic pricing. Most people got Feature Crossgrade, which gave you all the new features, data, interactives, and media, for a little over $200.
Waiting is doing nothing other than feeding fear and doubt. You gain absolutely nothing. Kind of like Matthew 25:25.
Make sure you understand who you're getting advice from
Kinda what I was trying to say, only you said it a LOT better, Al. Well done.
Joe, you do what YOU think is best.
But if you buy L6, please do me a favor. Come back to this thread once you've upgraded to L7 and let us know how much the transition actually cost you, so we can have an objective, quantitative, measured-in-dollars look at the difference between those who say you won't "pay twice" and those (like me) who say you will, in some ways, pay twice.
One side or the other will get a good empirical education.
[:P]
Yep, I'm comparing against Libronix. That was the last Logos software I used.
A little more than a year ago, I had to replace a hard drive on a Windows XP machine, and Libronix wouldn't load on the machine. I called customer service, who said that I had to upgrade, because Libronix was built on some piece of MS Explorer, and Logos (Faithlife) no longer supported it with the newer versions of Explorer. I wasn't aware of the newer versions of Logos, or of this forum. The customer service guy sent me to these forums, and said that I would get better help here than I would with Logos customer support.
This is sort of my point I was making to the OP. Most of the people who hang out on these forums are really into Logos, into advanced software tools and searches, having huge Logos libraries, eagerly awaiting new versions, etc. This makes you guys great at answering questions about how to use the software. However, I think many of the people who are sent here with questions are coming from a different place. Many have the software to study Scripture, with specific resources, for specific purposes. Having further, greater, advanced features might be well and good, but when things are changed such that I can't do the same things I could with the older version, and those things are the reason I bought the software, it becomes a step backward for me.
Sure. Keylinks. The ability to set the program up so that when I am in a Greek text, all I have to do is double click a word, and I automatically get all the resources I want, and ONLY the resources I want, to open in new windows, to the definition of that word I clicked on. And when I'm in a Hebrew text, again to be able to double click on a word and all the specific resources I want (and only those resources) open in new windows. And, when I'm in an English text, being able to double click on a word... You get the idea.
Another example would be the word-for-word association done with the NASB. I could hover over any English word and get the Greek word. I could also right-click on any word and click on "go to associated resource" (or something like that) and the Greek or Hebrew text would open up, with that word highlighted.
There are other examples as well, but those are the ones that come to mind. I also seem to recall that I lost some features that I used regularly, going from version 2 to Libronix. However, I don't remember those being particularly critical to what I did.
Phil, your answer presupposes that the buyer wants to continue to upgrade features into the future. If what you primarily want is to use and search the books you have, the advantage of paying for new crossgrades/upgrades is minimized. Many of us bought Logos because we were told that you (we) wouldn't need to keep buying new versions of the software, that you (we) were buying books, not software. While Logos has certainly kept to this in a literal sense, as I have noted above, for some of us, it hasn't quite worked out that way. For people who are into the new features and capabilities you guys keep providing, who have the money, and are willing to spend it on Logos, this makes sense. However, for those who want first and foremost to be able to search lexicons and dictionaries, buying all the new upgrades/crossgrades with each version might not make sense.
Having said that, I didn't buy the upgrade for Libronix, I just downloaded the free engine, and at some level I regret that. There are things that were not provided in the free engine that I wanted and would use. Likewise, if I would have known about the minimal crossgrade for version 5 when it was available, I would definitely have bought that. It had features I would definitely have wanted, would have used. However, I didn't know about such things as crossgrades until version 6 had already came out, and then version 5 crossgrades were no longer available for purchase. And the version 6 crossgrades are many times more expensive.
For what it's worth. By the way, I really appreciate your time perusing these forums, and jumping in when appropriate.
As I've explained above, that wouldn't be true for me.
Waiting is doing nothing other than feeding fear and doubt.
That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. How is waiting to buy a new version of Logos Bible software "feeding fear and doubt?" Perhaps it is just being prudent.
Kind of like Matthew 25:25.
All you have demonstrated is that you know nothing about what that passage is talking about. You're telling the OP that buying Logos is a command from God for him, and that waiting to buy a new version is the same as not using the talents that God has entrusted him with?
And are you comparing against Libronix or from Logos 4 onward? Yep, I'm comparing against Libronix. That was the last Logos software I used.
Thank you
That helps me understand some of the points you were making. I never really used Libronix significantly (maybe a couple of months before Logos 4 came out) so don't understand some of the capabilities it provided and how it maps / doesn't map to Logos 4 onwards.
I would have been surprised if you had seen capabilities in Logos 4 before removing in 5 or 6.
Most of the people who hang out on these forums are really into Logos, into advanced software tools and searches, having huge Logos libraries, eagerly awaiting new versions, etc
I think that's a valid comment regarding some of the "regulars" but there are also many who are trying to find out how to get answers to specific questions.
Many have the software to study Scripture, with specific resources, for specific purposes.
But I don't actually see these two things as incompatible. I have the software for the same reason and for specific purposes. I am less focused on "specific resources" finding value in having access to a range of resources.
Having further, greater, advanced features might be well and good, but when things are changed such that I can't do the same things I could with the older version, and those things are the reason I bought the software, it becomes a step backward for me.
That makes absolute sense to me
Sure. Keylinks. The ability to set the program up so that when I am in a Greek text, all I have to do is double click a word, and I automatically get all the resources I want, and ONLY the resources I want, to open in new windows, to the definition of that word I clicked on. And when I'm in a Hebrew text, again to be able to double click on a word and all the specific resources I want (and only those resources) open in new windows. And, when I'm in an English text, being able to double click on a word... You get the idea
I thought it might be helpful responding to this and showing how to do something "similar" in Logos 6. Apologies if you are already aware of this.
In Logos 6 if you double-click on a word in a Greek text then it will open to your highest prioritised lexicon which has an entry for that word.
If, instead, you right-click on the word you can see a list of the five highest prioritised lexicons and choose the one you want to open.
Using the "parallel resources" capability you can then move from one to another. Selecting the top option opened the Lexham Theological Workbook. Clicking the right-arrow key then opened the TDNT instead
The same principles work for Hebrew and English as well.
I don't remember enough of how Libronix worked to know how similar this was but it seems to work quite well. And this functionality should be available with the core engine.
The first part is possible - hovering over the word and getting a popup. The Information Pane also provides useful, relevant information
I don't know of any generic way to exactly achieve the second part of what you describe. You can right-click on a verse and choose which of your top five relevant prioritised Bibles to open - this might give you the ability to open particular texts (but it isn't specific to the "source text") and the word wouldn't end up highlighted in the new text
If you do have both texts open and highlight the word in one, you will get the word highlighted in the other.
I'm aware this doesn't directly address the question of upgrade or not / just trying to clarify what is / isn't possible from Logos 4 onwards.
If you pay the $99/year or so ($8 or $9 monthly, I think) for Logos Now, you will be getting upgrades to Logos 6 continuously and not on the normal 6-week (I think?) schedule, so that when 7 is released you will already have most or all of it, as well as parts of Logos 8. If you decide to stop subscribing to Logos Now, the cost of Logos 7 might be dynamically priced based on what you already have, or something like that. If you are subscribed to Logos Now when Logos 7 comes out, there may be no cost for getting Logos 7 when it comes out, except for upgrading from, e.g., Diamond to Platinum.A nice feature of Logos Now is that every month you get a temporary license for some resources, which you can then buy at a discount if you want them after the month is over.
This is exactly what I was going to recommend. Upgrade to 6 and get the features and then with Logos Now you basically are getting Logos 7 features as they are released. We don't know how Logos will handle the transition for people who have subscribed, but at the very least, if you keep subscribing you will continue getting the features...or there may be some sort of dynamic pricing benefit if you've been a subscriber. Regardless, you can't really use the experience people have had upgrading from 4 to 5 or 5 to 6, because Logos Now changes all of that.
From personal experience, Logos 6 legitimately has benefits over Logos 5. If these features seem like they'd benefit you too (they likely will) then I would recommend upgrading now so that you can actually start using them.
Joe, can you ballpark how much money would you be willing to spend in order to have Logos now instead of later?
Thanks for the reply, Graham. I didn't mean to imply that one type of use or intention is in any way more important, or more significant than another, or that good Bible software might not be able to meet the needs of many different uses well. I just wanted the OP to understand that the people who had and would likely reply on this forum tend to appreciate the full breadth of features Logos has, look forward to additional features, and seem to be willing to pay consistently for those additional features. This is great for those with questions (like me), as the people who frequent this forum have a great handle on a wide variety of things Logos does. However, the OP may or may not have been coming from a similar place of appreciating a great variety of features, and continue to desire more. I think that plays into his question about buying now or later.
I absolutely appreciate your input into how to use version 6 to do the types of things I primarily use Logos for. I do essentially just what you suggested. However, in your input here, I learned something that will be useful. I hadn't been using the "parallel resources" feature. That looks to be very useful for moving back and forth between resources, something that has been annoying for me. An interesting observation on that feature: My "first" prioritized Greek resource is Lowe and Nida. When I right-click a word, open L&N, and then click on the parallel resources button, I get "No Parallel Resources." However, if I open up another in my list of prioritized Greek tools, the parallel button shows all my resources, including L&N. Not a big deal, just an interesting observation.
Interestingly, in your example that you posted, hovering over a word in an English Bible gives you the Greek word, grammatical information for the word, and the Strongs number. When I hover over an English word, I get just the Strong's number. Likely the result of me just having the base engine. I also get a lot less information on the information window than others here do. When I hover over a word in a Greek Bible, I get the lemma, grammatical information for the word, and a brief definition. In my Hebrew Bibles, I get the Hebrew lemma and the grammatical information, with no definition.
I don't know of any generic way to exactly achieve the second part of what you describe. You can right-click on a verse and choose which of your top five relevant prioritised Bibles to open - this might give you the ability to open particular texts (but it isn't specific to the "source text") and the word wouldn't end up highlighted in the new text If you do have both texts open and highlight the word in one, you will get the word highlighted in the other.
This ability in Libronix with the NASB to "Navigate to associated word" was a nice feature, mainly because I use the NAS as my preferred Bible. So, if I was just looking up a verse or passage, was reading a verse in the NAS, and I got curious about the verse in Greek, I could just right click, and go right to the verse, and the word. It was convenient enough that I would look up the Greek in situations that I might not normally take the time to. Also, when exegeting a large passage, and working back and forth through resources, you could instantly find a particular Greek word without working through the whole passage. Right click, click the "Navigate to Associated Word" button, and that word would be highlighted in the Greek text.
Here, it sounds like you are saying that you can do this in your version of Logos, if you have both resources open. When I have both the Greek and English Bibles open, neither clicking on, or highlighting a word in one highlights the word in the other. I imagine that could be useful, but it doesn't work with mine.
I appreciate you taking the time to help, even on a thread where this isn't the focus.
I hadn't been using the "parallel resources" feature. That looks to be very useful for moving back and forth between resources, something that has been annoying for me. An interesting observation on that feature: My "first" prioritized Greek resource is Lowe and Nida. When I right-click a word, open L&N, and then click on the parallel resources button, I get "No Parallel Resources." However, if I open up another in my list of prioritized Greek tools, the parallel button shows all my resources, including L&N. Not a big deal, just an interesting observation.
This sounds a lot like a bug that was just fixed in a recent beta version, so this will hopefully be fixed when the next stable release ships.
Now that you know a little more about the software, you may want to click on your number of posts and read your old threads. The things Graham is telling you were actually explained in another couple of threads you posted about a year ago (one even by him), but it may make more sense now.
I would look not at Logos Now, but at Logos Cloud. Features like Clause search (subject:Jesus verb-sense:to-heal to find everywhere Jesus healed, even if it says "He made whole" or something else. You could never do that with Libronix or paper tools) alone are worth the upgrade. There is a free month and there is no need to enter your credit card for auto renewal. Why not get the $20/month subscription, try it and see if it solves your workflow? If you do the 30 day challenge, you will learn about the power of the new software and probably be sold. Then it will automatically upgrade to L7. It is a rental, not ownership model, so you will get the value of Gold at a much lower cost, and can cancel it if/when you don't need it. You will get access to the inline reverse interlinear, which is much better than "Navigate to Associated Word." You will also get Inline Search (which should definitely be part of the core engine; it is not a dataset, so I do find the fact you need a certain level base package to be disingenous to their "buy only books" promise), where you can right click on a word, click on the Lemma and then click "Search in this resource."
The Libronix "Associated Word" feature is not supported in Logos 6. Since Logos 4, reverse interlinears have supplanted that feature and added many more capabilities:
The reverse interlinears are only available in a base package or crossgrade, but may be well worth it if you want the ability to link English and Greek (or Hebrew).
Justin,
For sure. My regular routine incorporates most of what Graham has suggested here, precisely because of the advice I got here long ago, as well as several other, newer features of Logos that I've discovered and found uses for along the way. I seem to have missed this use of the parallel resources, though.
To be clear, I wasn't asking for help or advice in this thread. I was jut trying to make the point that Logos has changed over time, with features that come and go. I've fully adapted to this phase of Logos software, and use it between 10 and 20 hours a week (sermon, Bible Study, article prep). To do what I used to do with Libronix takes more mouse clicks, and some work-arounds, but you adapt. There are also many parts of 4, 5, and 6 that I think are great, and very useful.
My post was intended to make the point that Logos programs change over time, and features come and features to. Graham was just being kind to try to help, to make sure I wasn't missing anything that IS available.
I would look not at Logos Now, but at Logos Cloud.
I'm not sure if you meant to direct this to me or the OP. I'm not particularly looking to upgrade my search ability, though it is always nice to have more options...
Thanks for the input.
I would look not at Logos Now, but at Logos Cloud. I'm not sure if you meant to direct this to me or the OP. I'm not particularly looking to upgrade my search ability, though it is always nice to have more options...
Both, really. I saw some people recommend Logos Now, which I think is silly in either use case. Logos Cloud provides the benefits of a base package at a fraction of the cost (my disclaimer is that I don't subscribe because I am too heavily invested in the ownership model; until they add dynamic pricing, it doesn't make sense for me).
And sorry for the mix-up. Reading through carelessly, I merged some of your points with other's in my mind and made a kind of muddled response. Glad to hear that L6 is working for you.
Yeah, that was EXACTLY my point to the OP.
With new versions, things like this ("Associated Word" feature) go away. Often that is because Logos is adding new features which can/will serve the same purpose. However, your example here points out a great example of where the new feature (reverse interlinears) is only available in base packages or crossgrades that you have to buy. So, I WAS able to download the new base engine and have access to my full library. However, if I wanted to use the same features or do this similar thing that I had for years, I would have to spend hundreds more on a crossgrade or base package.
Hence my advice to the OP to take this into account when deciding to buy now or wait for version 7.
Okay everyone, thanks for all the replies, but the discussion with me has now inadvertently, completely hijacked this thread. If there is any more discussion, I'd like it to center around the OP's original question about buying now or waiting for version 7.
Thanks everyone for the information and help, but now another question has come up from Justin's comment. Do I even need to look at a Logos base package or should I just subscribe to Logos Cloud? It sounds like the monthly fee is reasonable and if I get all the features of Logos without having to purchase a base package it might be a great way to try it out. Am I missing something ?
Do I even need to look at a Logos base package or should I just subscribe to Logos Cloud? It
You would definitely want to use the free month trial before investing in Logos Cloud. When I tried that, I felt great dissatisfaction with the included resources. However, I should mention that I own over 15k resources, so YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). I also tried Cloud shortly after its initial release.
But you would definitely want to try it free for a month.
I think if you're on the fence at all, there's no downside to trialling it for a month.
It helped me to find out what resource-types I most benefitted from or felt were missing and make a more informed decision about upgrading, but you might just feel perfectly served by it as is. Give it a go!
As someone mentioned, "If you can afford it".
In my opinion Logos and saving money do not go together. You do have to look at the long haul. You can build up a terrific library with Logos that'll last you years. You do however, need to understand that this will cost you. Just the crossgrades between versions are $200 plus. Logos also likes to place things in packages or bundles, so the resource you need may not be available as a single purchase. In the end Logos is a business and are after your money so if you're on v5 now is a good time to way up the options. There is good software available at a fraction of the cost. I think it's also worth looking at what you'll actually use as opposed to what you'll actually get.
Let me be clear, nothing else comes close to the resources Logos can offer, but this comes at a perpetual price. If that is no object go for it!
While it is easy to spend lots of money and build a large library, to do so is a matter of choice. One can use Logos with a minimal investment knowing that one can expand should the need arise. If the need does not arise, no need to expand.
That's not entirely true. It all depends on what you need for your context. Logos likes to bundle things. So for example if you decide you want the Greek Alphabet tutor which costs about $4 you'll find it only in a bundle. This means it'll cost a couple of hundred dollars to purchase. If you're wanting to build your own collection Logos is a very expensive way of doing it.
Logos has a tremendous amount to offer, but it is going to take a fair amount of money to get what you want. You may find a base package that includes all you want, but those are not generally the lower priced ones.
So for example if you decide you want the Greek Alphabet tutor which costs about $4 you'll find it only in a bundle.
I can also easily find free ones one the web some of which I personally might prefer to Logos' .... I know that I can get people happily set up for < $100 and not expect them to add much over time ... which is why Logos "complains" that the percentage of its users who "pull their weigh" in keeping the company profitable is small.
I can also easily find free ones one the web some of which I personally might prefer to Logos'
But now you're changing the goal posts. This was using Logos. I mentioned in my earlier post that there's software available at a fraction of the cost. The point here is building your library with Logos, and it appears by using other stuff you're hinting that Logos is costly too or else you'd have bought that in Logos.
If we're broadening the criteria, I should add the cost alone is not my criteria of evaluation (but it is an important one). A large weighting has to be on the usability of the software.
I use three software programmes at the moment, Logos, Accordance and Olivetree. Olivetree is a throwback from my early ios days and is not at this time in the league of Logos or Accordance, but still does admirably in terms of Bible Study. Accordance's base packages are cheaper than Logos and buying specific items is possible, which makes it my preference. My difficulty is always wanting stuff in one package for ease of use. Logos's bloat often works against itself in that searches bring up too much stuff and you don't seem to be able to "turn-off" resources (I may be wrong here as I don't know Logos as well as I should). This means study takes longer. Plus on a mac Logos is terrible. Logos's "Signing In", "Preparing Library" and "Synchronizing" take longer than opening Accordance doing a textual search and closing it again. I also find the Logos' iOS app to be next to useless. I'm a church minister and in meetings use airplane mode to stop unwanted interruptions. Logos iOS without the internet is nothing but a reader. None of the searches work and so for small group teaching is unusable. These are important consideration for me.
I've been with Logos since the Libronix days and before that used Quickverse. Over the years my needs changed. Now as a Pastor I need more heavy duty tools, but this is proving expensive when looking at Logos. Another plus for Accordance is that it doesn't lock away functionality depending on how much you've spent. Diagramming for instance is available to all as all of the applications functions are unlocked. Another difficulty is vendor lock-in and so switching from Logos elsewhere leaves many resources stuck in Logos or you end up duplicating. Even if you don't want to invest more in Logos at some point you need to for upgrades just to keep what you have. I do like the fact the Accordance does have a user tool to make your own resources so you could theoretically transfer your books to Accordance as personal books.
I should add that I'm looking at the original languages at the moment. I've come across Bibleworks that gives me everything needed for less than $400. This would be far more expensive in Logos, but then I'm adding yet a fourth application to my computer.
This is why I think it behoves us to think about future possible uses and the costs this would incur.
It leaves the fact that using Logos to build your library is expensive.
and it appears by using other stuff you're hinting that Logos is costly too or else you'd have bought that in Logos.
No, I'm hinting at the fact that learning an alphabet is not a primary function of Logos and as other options are readily available for the short period of time you would need the feature it is irrelevant to the evaluation of Logos.
I agree that it can be. But it depends upon how much your library is apt to grow and what type of resources will be added. Different traditions have different styles of Bible study - some based more on the text itself, prayer, a few confessional documents; others based very heavily on commentaries, atlases, original language words studies even without original language competency ... and a large number of Bible study traditions falling at different places along the continuum. The purchaser needs to look at it from the perspective of their needs not my needs or your needs.
I'm hinting at the fact that learning an alphabet is not a primary function of Logos
I'm not sure it's that easy. The primary function happens to be what you need to use it for most and this obviously changes over time. Logos would disagree with you as they have invested in m.Ed and Logos functionality to make learning Greek a primary function for those that need it.
The purchaser needs to look at it from the perspective of their needs not my needs or your needs.
Totally with you there. Those needs however do change. Mine have gone from being part of a church to being part of a ministry to being part of a Bible School to being the Pastor of a local church. Each of those have different needs. One package purchased 5 years ago for a specific purpose may not meet those needs today. That is why I suggest looking at the whole picture as much a possible and seeing if Logos is the right path.
In some way this is all moot if you have the finances and that leads me back round to where I entered the discussion. If you have limited resources Logos may not be the way to go.
Enjoyed your points! Many thanks!
you don't seem to be able to "turn-off" resources (I may be wrong here as I don't know Logos as well as I should).
You can turn off resources you don't want to use in the desktop version by hiding them in L4, 5, and 6. You can read about this here.
I do like the fact the Accordance does have a user tool to make your own resources so you could theoretically transfer your books to Accordance as personal books.
Logos has the Personal Book Builder as well, which allows you to create your own resources. Details here.
Returning to your original discussion with MJ, I personally don't think things like Alphabet Tutors are significant reasons for choosing software - I can learn the Greek alphabet from the first couple of pages of any Greek grammar in an hour or so: I am more concerned (as a Pastor) with language, commentary and other exegetical resources.
You also don't have to pay anything to upgrade from Logos 4 or 5 to L6. Paying ~$200 gets you all the new features, but you can upgrade with the free engine upgrade without losing access to any of your resources and as far as I can remember you gain access to the new features that aren't powered by specific datasets (being able to update resources without restarting your system, etc).
I'm a church minister and in meetings use airplane mode to stop unwanted interruptions. Logos iOS without the internet is nothing but a reader. None of the searches work and so for small group teaching is unusable. These are important consideration for me.
I have been saying this for years now.... and usually been told it is a very small number who have issue with how the mobile devices work. I have trouble believing that and feel FL is loosing customers, because if good offline support is a key issue for you and you discover that LOGOS/VERBUM mobile only function with an active connection, I am not sure you will go with it. Also ends up being a speed thing pure and simple as no matter how good a connection I have had OT or ACC mobile functions faster than FL mobile. But apparently we are in the extreme minority. And so are on back burner of maybe someday.
-Dan
I'll answer on a different track than perhaps you've seen. Before I go on, I'll say I empathize with all the points that've been made. I didn't initially upgrade after Libronix aka v.3.0, but eventually I had to. Though there are many things I prefer in L6, I think I still mildly prefer the day-to-day way I was able use v. 3.0--it was more efficient & lighter on the fingers & wrists (not as many keystrokes or mouse clicks) for same task). I also preferred pricing pre-V. 4.0. (I was able to add a nice collection for a max of $300 each year; today, an equivalent "nice" collection would be well over $1,000.)
I also hear & can agree with those who say go ahead....
My real input is a caveat. If you need it. The real advantage of going ahead is that you get to start using it. If you already have a solution, this one is pricy enough that I'd counsel wait--unless budget isn't an issue. I'm a part time pastor of a tiny church, & budget is a huge issue. (I have no book budget, for example, only a very limited budget for ALL my professional expenses in a year, coupled with the need to avoid spending as much of that as I can avoid.)So if you need it, get started. If you don't, wait...
I'm a church minister and in meetings use airplane mode to stop unwanted interruptions. Logos iOS without the internet is nothing but a reader. None of the searches work and so for small group teaching is unusable. These are important consideration for me. I have been saying this for years now.... and usually been told it is a very small number who have issue with how the mobile devices work. I have trouble believing that and feel FL is loosing customers, because if good offline support is a key issue for you and you discover that LOGOS/VERBUM mobile only function with an active connection, I am not sure you will go with it.
I have been saying this for years now.... and usually been told it is a very small number who have issue with how the mobile devices work. I have trouble believing that and feel FL is loosing customers, because if good offline support is a key issue for you and you discover that LOGOS/VERBUM mobile only function with an active connection, I am not sure you will go with it.
Okay, you "forced" me into it. [;)] I rarely engage in speculation but my guess as to the reason for the restructuring of Faithlife is that Bob saw the need to direct more of their resources towards the mobile market. My only evidence is my personal reading of the direction of the market.
Okay, you "forced" me into it. I rarely engage in speculation but my guess as to the reason for the restructuring of Faithlife is that Bob saw the need to direct more of their resources towards the mobile market. My only evidence is my personal reading of the direction of the market.
Can't comment how the amount of resources being directed to it, but Kevin (a FL employee, for those who don't know) did recently indicate on a thread in the Android forums that multiple parity issues are being targeted for this year. It sure would be nice for mobile to get some more love!
I have been saying this for years now.... and usually been told it is a very small number who have issue with how the mobile devices work.
I've been using my iPad at church for at least a year and a half and do not even contemplate using the Logos app. Logos on the pc and OT on the iPad. Easy choices.
I can definitely see why, but it's not as clear cut as it used to be. I really miss offline functionality and the fact that the main functions of Logos' guides are replicated in a single window through the resource guide. I also prefer the way that Olive Tree handles maps/images.
But I think Logos has better formatted text, more versatile interlinears, access to way more resources and more links between them - I was reading an issue of Themelios on my phone where an article cited a letter of Clement that I was able to click through to straight away. I wouldn't be able to read either resource through Olive Tree, but even if I could, citations almost never work as links except when they point to Bible verses.
Also, I get to create Bible reading plans for my personal books and Biblical text, and follow along there. And my prayer list - on desktop, I'd never use it, but having it available with my devotions is wonderful. Audio Bibles are quite handy too, at times.
Word studies are better in Logos, and provided you have signal and can afford the data usage, it's quite nice to be able to access a ton of books without having to download them all. My Olive Tree download took up 3GB because I wanted to know all my resources were available. With Logos, they are, whether I download 'em or not.
There are certainly good reasons to lean the other way, but I don't think its obvious that Olive Tree is the best mobile app anymore.
