What looks good on the horizon for Windows 10 Tablet small form factor?
ok, no one groan...but are there any Windows 10 Tablets (non "hot-brick", decent resolution and a powerful enough processor) coming out soon that could comfortably and effectively run Logos 6.x or 7.x when it comes out please?
Lets hope Logos/Faithlife is pondering this question too.
Blessings,
The guy in RI who should learn to be happy with his original Surface Pro (sigh)
Comments
-
Hi Josh,
You raise an excellent question. I personally want a 10-inch to 10.8-inch tablet. Anything larger is too big for me.
I tried out the Surface 3. It ran cool to the touch but with the Atom processor and slow SSD, didn't run Logos acceptably for me.
Most device manufacturers have concluded that most people want a "tablet that can replace your laptop." That means a 12.5-inch screen.
I have my eye on Dell for a refresh of their Venue 11 Pro line. I could buy a refurbished current model with a Core M processor, 256 GB SSD and 8 GB of RAM for about $600. With those specs, Logos would run as well as it does on my 2015 Macbook (with virtually the same specs).
That original Surface Pro was the right size and it had a Wacom digitizer, which is better than N-Trig which Microsoft uses now in the SP3 and SP4 lines.
Faithlife wouldn't be interested in this either way. As long as the tablet runs Windows, the Logos desktop application will run on the tablet. We'll have to see if they heed our calls for them to optimize the desktop application for touch.
0 -
You rock Bill....I praise Jesus each time you respond...blessings from RI.
joshua
0 -
Bill Anderson said:
We'll have to see if they heed our calls for them to optimize the desktop application for touch.
I can understand that FL is reluctant to put too many resources into something that may be a 9 days wonder but touch does seem to be established as a way that things are moving ... . I find myself handicapped by my PC tablet in church manly because of the touch abilities - or rather lack of them.
0 -
I certainly feel your pain. However the benefits of the small footprint outweigh the handicaps. Until recently I had hope that FL would address the touch issues. ...But in view of the recent events, I have consigned myself to the reality that I will have to solve/address the issues myself. For the longest time it baffled me why FL refused to at least provide a separate forum so touch users could discuss and share home brewed fixes/work-arounds. Now it is dawning on me that to do so would bring even more focus to the shortcommings, ... and further expose their underbelly.JohnB said:I find myself handicapped by my PC tablet in church manly because of the touch abilities - or rather lack of them.
0 -
I'm currently using an Aspire Switch 10, which runs Atom with 2GB RAM and only 64GB of SSD so I had to install and run Logos from a MicroSD card. Not ideal, and the machine and Logos is getting slower and slower. I've only had this for 8 months. It was a bargain buy from Costco.
I'm also in the market for a similar tablet / 2-in-1. My requirements are:
- At least Core M processor
- At least 4GB RAM
- At least 128GB real SSD (not eMMC - the slower kind of solid state memory)
- Good keyboard (preferably not Bluetooth, but physically connected keyboard)
- Cool to the touch, and fanless, just like the iPad
- 10-12 inch screen
- Lightweight (at most 2.5 lbs with keyboard)
- Long battery life - at least 7 hours
- Affordable (US$400-800 including keyboard)
Doing google searches on "surface pro alternatives" turns up several promising articles that have recommendations, but I haven't had time to go through all of them yet. Not in a huge hurry. The HP Spectre X2 and Dell Venue Pro (and a few others) look promising at first blush.
You can try doing this google search also. We can exchange notes.
Peter
0 -
Paul C said:
For the longest time it baffled me why FL refused to at least provide a separate forum so touch users could discuss and share home brewed fixes/work-arounds. Now it is dawning on me that to do so would bring even more focus to the shortcomings,
There only seem to be two alternatives, either you are correct or they expect the small format market to die away soon (& I can't see that happening).
I suppose the there is a third option, and that is that they are about to introduce significant changes in touch screen usability with Logos that will solve the current problems.The problem that Logos cannot cure is that I keep chasing rabbits which irritates my bible class teacher who just happens to be my wife [:D]
0 -
PL said:
I'm currently using an Aspire Switch 10, which runs Atom with 2GB RAM and only 64GB of SSD so I had to install and run Logos from a MicroSD card. Not ideal, and the machine and Logos is getting slower and slower. I've only had this for 8 months. It was a bargain buy from Costco.
I'm also in the market for a similar tablet / 2-in-1. My requirements are:
- At least Core M processor
- At least 4GB RAM
- At least 128GB real SSD (not eMMC - the slower kind of solid state memory)
- Good keyboard (preferably not Bluetooth, but physically connected keyboard)
- Cool to the touch, and fanless, just like the iPad
- 10-12 inch screen
- Lightweight (at most 2.5 lbs with keyboard)
- Long battery life - at least 7 hours
- Affordable (US$400-800 including keyboard)
Doing google searches on "surface pro alternatives" turns up several promising articles that have recommendations, but I haven't had time to go through all of them yet. Not in a huge hurry. The HP Spectre X2 and Dell Venue Pro (and a few others) look promising at first blush.
You can try doing this google search also. We can exchange notes.
Peter
If only Microsoft would put the Core M in the Surface 3, it would have been ideal. Save the i5 and i7 processors for the larger-factor Surface Pro line.
0 -
I just wish they had made a machine that doesnt heat up. Today I read they are replacing the SP cords for heating up....unbelievable! Finally, right?!!!
...it would be nice if they sold them cheaper...that made sense but nope.
I do not find anything coming up that is I5 or I7 wonderful that runs Logos properly.
I wish someone would ask me for my humble opinion, and yes I say amen to touch functionality to Logos 7.x...something that would run effectively on a cheaper atom would be nice too Bill.
I keep remembering my wife saying "Be satisfied with what you have". Smart woman I married, huh?
Blessings everyone.
Joshua In Rhode Island
0 -
Bill Anderson said:
I tried out the Surface 3. It ran cool to the touch but with the Atom processor and slow SSD, didn't run Logos acceptably for me.
Reading reports like this are the sole reason I did not purchase a surface 3. Here's hoping the situation changes with the Surface 4
0 -
JoshInRI said:
I just wish they had made a machine that doesnt heat up. Today I read they are replacing the SP cords for heating up....unbelievable! Finally, right?!!!
The issue is related to the cords being pinched or twisted too tightly. I suspect it is an insulation related issue, not heat...though if the insulation fails it could certainly become a 'heat' issue!
0 -
danwdoo said:JoshInRI said:
I just wish they had made a machine that doesnt heat up. Today I read they are replacing the SP cords for heating up....unbelievable! Finally, right?!!!
The issue is related to the cords being pinched or twisted too tightly. I suspect it is an insulation related issue, not heat...though if the insulation fails it could certainly become a 'heat' issue!
And to add to this, it's the power cords that are the problem overheating, not the tablets themselves. The SP4 is supposed to have a hybrid cooling system that dissipates heat better than the SP3.
0 -
danwdoo said:Bill Anderson said:
I tried out the Surface 3. It ran cool to the touch but with the Atom processor and slow SSD, didn't run Logos acceptably for me.
Reading reports like this are the sole reason I did not purchase a surface 3. Here's hoping the situation changes with the Surface 4
Here's the thing: After booting Logos, which was slow, the program worked decently. Scrolling through windows with a mouse was fine, and even scrolling with touch or the stylus was OK. The problem I had with the Surface 3 was that if you minimized the application, there would be screen "tearing" from the graphics chip not being able to keep up or insufficient RAM. If you ran Logos maximized all of the time, the performance was at least as good as my old Asus VivoTab Note 8 with the Baytrail Atom processor and 2 GB RAM and Logos installed to an SD card.
Every other program I used on the Surface ran fast. It's just that Logos has such high and demanding hardware requirements.
0 -
Samsung Galaxy TabPro S looks promising...I hope they price it very low.
0 -
$1200-$1500
0 -
way too high...heavy sigh.
0 -
Paul C said:
$1200-$1500
Pricing and a launch date in the U.S. have not been announced. This article says it will start at €999 in Europe. The Samsung tablet has a Core M processor running at 2.26 GHz, 4GB RAM and either a 128 or 256GB SSD. The article says the SP4 with the Core M running at 2.2GHz, 4GB RAM and 128GB SSD also costs €999. So, it looks like this tablet will compete with the base model SP4.
0 -
The current currency conversion makes that $1080 for the base model. If it indeed hits our shores at that price point, my prediction was $120 high. [:D]Bill Anderson said:it will start at €999 in Europe
It still makes my Venues seem even more attractive.
0 -
-
Paul C said:
It still makes my Venues seem even more attractive.
A refurbished Venue 11 Pro 7140 with a Core M, 8 GB RAM and 256GB SSD can be had for $569 from a Dell-authorized reseller. This is very tempting but for the Synaptics digitizer and the issues Dell has had with their active stylus.
0 -
0
-
Correct. However, It does a fine job at hand written notes using Windows journal, OneNote, or the Windows handwriting input panel, and a generic 99 cent capacitive stylus. The input panel is really cool. It transforms handwritng into digital text, ... complete with spell checking. One can scribble readable notes with a finger... in a pinch. I guess the active digitizer would come into play for artwork. It is not worth the extra expense for my purpose.Bill Anderson said:This has a capacitive touchscreen and not an active digitizer, correct?
I purchased the 11 pro for $330 (4th Gen i5-4300Y 1.6GHz 128GB 4GB ram ) Added a lenovo compact keyboard with trackpoint, ( Alternative to touchpad or mouse) and a leather portfolio. All for less than $400. [:D]
EDIT:
As you can see, I am well pleased with the 11 Pro. But I find myself still leaving home with the little 8 pro more frequently. The performance hit is not that great ... and the pocketability is priceless.
0 -
Paul, can you please also post an eBay or Amazon link to the Lenovo keyboard you bought?
Thanks!
Peter
0 -
Hi, Peter;
This is the one I have. I was patient and found one on ebay for $50. I have been a fan of the trackpoint for years. The best keyboard going, Head and shoulders above conventional keyboards IMHO. And you don't need a mouse. Works with any machine that has bluetooth.
0 -
Samsung pro S looks like it will be priced high. If they were smart they would move more by pricing them far lower.
The Venue's that our esteemed fellow poster above keeps touting in the forums seem underpowered to me.
I would hate to be stuck with a slow dog.[:P]
is this one any good above - will it run Logos 6.x?
0 -
I think I see your logic. You have deluded yourself into thinking that benchmarks justify being stuck with an overpowered, overpriced, overheating brick that can't be used without burning down the church. You seem to be well versed in purchasing dogs. Look at the bright side. If your wife would allow you to buy a usable machine, It would take away your reasons for living ... whining and sighing. [:P] [;)]JoshInRI said:The Venue's that our esteemed fellow poster above keeps touting in the forums seem underpowered to me.
I would hate to be stuck with a slow dog.
JoshInRI said:way too high...heavy sigh.
0 -
um...I own a dog - a 9 month old puppy name JIGGER who is a boxer/bulldog mix.
I really DO esteem you and what you offer here. No offense intended.
0 -
OK;
Now that we have that settled. ... I am very psyched about the upgraded venue 8 pro. 4 gb ram is welcome. The high end Atoms offer very comparable performance to pared down i5/m series tablet processors. I don't have an immediate need to replace my 8 pro. But if that need arises, This is what I would shop for.
May God Bless Your Studies
0 -
Hi Paul,
Thanks for the info you shared here. Could you entertain a few questions below?
1) Do you see / feel a noticeable performance difference between your Venue 8 and Venue 10?
Note: Here's my understanding / assumption: Venue 8 is Atom Z CPU / 2GB RAM / 64 GB SSD, with Logos installed on MicroSD card. Venue 10 is Core m CPU / 4GB RAM / 128 GB SSD, with Logos installed on SSD.
Background: I have an Aspire Switch 10 with the same configuration / setup as I assumed for your Venue 8 above. Over time I'm finding that it's not just slow with Logos in actual use (e.g. screen repainting often takes 30 seconds to complete - as in switching to and from F11 Reading Mode, resizing Logos main window as when moving it from laptop screen to larger external monitor. Typing into Command Box or Pericope Box often takes 30 seconds to respond). I'm wondering if you experience the same with the Venue 8, and whether the Venue 10 is any better in these aspects.
2) Do either of these machines get warm over prolonged use (e.g. being on all day)?
3) Are they both fanless? (I've been spoiled by the iPad and can no longer stand machines that have a constantly spinning fan).
4) Regarding your Lenovo keyboard, do you have the Bluetooth or USB wireless version?
- If Bluetooth, do you running into repeated keyssss problem that seems to be common with Bluetooth keyboards?
- How do you prop up your Venue 8 and Venue 10 when using them with the Lenovo keyboard?
5) Also, do you or anyone else know the performance difference between and Core m3 and Core i3 processors? Is one better than the other or are they practically comparable?
Thanks!
Peter
0 -
Paul C said:
OK;
Now that we have that settled. ... I am very psyched about the upgraded venue 8 pro. 4 gb ram is welcome. The high end Atoms offer very comparable performance to pared down i5/m series tablet processors. I don't have an immediate need to replace my 8 pro. But if that need arises, This is what I would shop for.
May God Bless Your Studies
The specs in the new Venue 8 pro are on par with the Surface 3. I believe the Atom processor in the SP3 is slightly better. The SP3 could run Logos, but it wasn't pretty.
0 -
Yes. there is a difference. ... As there is a difference between the venue 11 and the Lenovo x220t. (i7, 8G ram and 512 ssd) each machine has it's perks and drawbacks.I do not enjoy taking the Lenovo to Bible study. ... Too large, heavy, bulky. Conversely, I would not enjoy doing extended in depth research/searches/note taking with the v8. They both fill a niche. The v11 falls somewhere in between. No! the v8 has Logos installed on the main drive. I deleted the backup partition to recover some space when I installed Windows 10. With Logos and Office installed, I still have 20GB free.The 8 is indeed atom based (z 3740, I think.) However, The v11 is i5-4300y. I would never tolerate a 30 second delay. The v8 takes 10-12 seconds to open to a simple layout. Seldom over a 2-4 second delay after that. Again, The v11 is snappier, but I still prefer the v8 for small groups and sermons where searching is limited but available if I can't resist the temptation.PL said:1) Do you see / feel a noticeable performance difference between your Venue 8 and Venue 10?
Neither get uncomfortably warm to the touch. The v11 has a fan but it is ultra quiet. You have to use it hard to make it come on.PL said:2) Do either of these machines get warm over prolonged use (e.g. being on all day)?
Bluetooth. You will note the folks complaining about bluetooth are trying to use it beyond it's intended range. They are intended to be used within inches of the machine, not yards. ( so yo don't interfere with other B T equipped machines.) I have NEVER had an issue with the lenovo keyboard.PL said:4) Regarding your Lenovo keyboard, do you have the Bluetooth or USB wireless version?
PL said:- How do you prop up your Venue 8 and Venue 10 when using them with the Lenovo keyboard?
They both have cases/portfolios with kickstands. But I usually use the on screen keyboard on the v8.
0 -
Great news about a new Venue 8 Pro! I still use my "old" one now and then. It was Windows 10 on it now. I have Logos on it for the portability. Logos is slow on it, but still usable.
I like the idea of having 4 GB of RAM as an option. However, the new 8 Pro still has an eMMC drive, as most small tablets do (as well as the Surface 3, I'm told). Putting a 'true" SSD in a tablet like this would make it more expensive, but a real SSD would make a big difference with Logos. Still, the 4 GB of RAM and the upgraded display are big pluses.
I have Logos installed on my SD card. Would having it all in internal make it run a bit better? Probably. I may try moving it and see!
0 -
Absolutely ! I tried it on an SD. It is easily twice as fast on the internal drive.Mark Nolette said:Would having it all in internal make it run a bit better?
0 -
Paul C said:
Absolutely ! I tried it on an SD. It is easily twice as fast on the internal drive.Mark Nolette said:Would having it all in internal make it run a bit better?
I'll give that a try then! I have plenty of room on internal. It's the 64 GB model.
I was just looking at the new Venue 8 Pro on the Dell site. Looks nice! I haven't seen any reviews yet, though.
0 -
Many thanks for your replies, Paul!
Peter
(we need Mary to chime in [:)])
0 -
I, too, will be impatiently waiting for reviews. They are quite pricey out of the gate. I look for prices to drop as they try to compete with the surface 3. (On Amazon for $421)Mark Nolette said:I haven't seen any reviews yet, though.
0 -
Paul,
As I was checking out the new 8 Pro on Dell's site, I found a way to save $50. It comes with Windows 10 Pro. However, you have the option to choose Windows 10 Home and save $50, if you don't need Pro.
On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a way to buy it with the Dell Preferred Account (which I have). Maybe I'll wait and see what kind of a tax refund I get this year, and what other needs might be priorities. I'll also wait, as patiently as possible, for reviews.
0 -
While you are "patiently" waiting, I suggest moving Logos to the internal drive. I think you will be pleasantly surprised. With the tiny drive, It's even more important to keep it squeaky clean ....disk clean up, temporary files, etc.
0 -
I made the move last night. I wouldn't call it blazing fast, of course, but I can see a definite improvement in performance. Making the move was easy. I uninstalled Logos, then reinstalled following Method 2 in Logos' "Quick Installation on multiple computers" wiki page. All I needed to do then was copy the appropriate folders from my sd card to the internal drive. I say all this in case anyone else is looking at doing the same thing.
I still have 23 GB of space on internal, and the sd card can be used for apps/programs that aren't quite so resource-demanding as Logos is.
I wouldn't do a lot of heavy exegesis on my 8 Pro now, but for reading resources, or using passage guides and some of my layouts, it works well enough. The portability factor, as you have said, is great.
As an aside, I also saw that the new 8 Pro has a new stylus that uses Wacom technology, according to the Dell site. That could be another plus.0 -
Oh,that's not an aside. That just sealed the deal for me. I use a Wacom pen tablet for Photoshop. They are the industry standard. It will be a vast improvement. [:D]Mark Nolette said:As an aside, I also saw that the new 8 Pro has a new stylus that uses Wacom technology, according to the Dell site. That could be another plus.
0
