Passage Guide Commentaries Settings in v6.10

"Added the ability to select a particular number of commentaries to load, this can be set in your template or by clicking settings entering the number of commentaries you want to see in this section, then right clicking on the commentaries header and selecting refresh."

These is counter-intuitive. I had expected Enter to confirm the change and "refresh" the number of commentaries, whereas the "refresh" happened only when I accidentally selected another collection or as follows:

change the number from 10 to 8 and "refresh" as intended (in a custom PG)
change the number from 8 to 5
exit Settings and then confirm that 5 is displayed
Click more > which displays 5 more commentaries. Total 13 (with more available)
Refresh Guide and the context "refresh" results in 5 commentaries
Delete Guide results in 10 commentaries

Confusing!? Note that the Template has been unaffected by all this.

Why have the default as 10 which means I have to change the template of all Commentaries sections in all my custom PG's?

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Comments

Eli Evans (Logos)

These is counter-intuitive. I had expected Enter to confirm the change and "refresh" the number of commentaries,

Agree. We're looking into that.

Why have the default as 10 which means I have to change the template of all Commentaries sections in all my custom PG's?

The number in the setting not only changes the initial number that is shown but the number of further results that appear when you click "more". It's essentially a page size. Prior to this change, the first page of the list was 6 items long, and if you hit "more" the second page length was 30. So one click gets you up to a total of 36. After this change, the page size is uniform, so if we leave it at 6, one click would get you 12. We settled on 10 as a "split the difference" compromise, so one click gets you 20. Uniform page sizes is more consistent with other parts of the application, and is the direction that we'd like to move further toward in the future. We considered having two page size settings, one for the initial list, and one for subsequent pages, but that seemed like overkill and more complicated than it was worth.

We have also heard from users over the years that the underlying desire to make this a user-configurable setting in the first place is that they want more commentaries in the section not fewer, so I felt that a higher default number should be a better fit for most people. (Individual results may vary, of course.)

The last reason is bigger picture. An initial page size of 6 and a secondary page size of 30 was the result of a lot of back and forth negotiation with various interested users over the years. I have to assume that people are used to that compromise more than they are actually happy with it. Rather than us maintaining all these fine-tuned compromises throughout the app (and getting a lot of them wrong, at least for some users some of the time), I'd rather empower individuals to make the choice that best fits their workflow.

That said, we weren't intending to create a burden for anyone. When you say you have to change all the commentaries sections in all your custom PG's do you mean custom templates, or stored guide instances, or both? (Modifying the templates should be a minor one-time hassle for an ongoing reward, but changing each instance individually does sound like a lot of tedious busy work to me. I'll confirm.)

Dave Hooton

That said, we weren't intending to create a burden for anyone. When you say you have to change all the commentaries sections in all your custom PG's do you mean custom templates, or stored guide instances, or both?

I meant custom templates and making the change is minor (for me), but I rarely consult more than two commentaries in any of the three sections I have. I hadn't realised that the previous "more" would produce up to 30 commentaries, so having a uniform page size is beneficial - just that 6 is better!

As for Saved Guides (on the right):

The guide came from May 2014, but only three commentaries in the first section and NONE in the second! The collections have changed slightly but the result seems to be impacted by changes in Prioritization. The commentaries in the third section are the same because the collection of Notes includes the rule mytag:Notes and none are prioritised. The table below shows the number of commentaries to be loaded:-

Current guide Saved guide

section 1 7 10

section 2 5 10

section 3 5 10

Eli Evans (Logos)

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I'll send it along the chain.

Mark Barnes

After this change, the page size is uniform, so if we leave it at 6, one click would get you 12. We settled on 10 as a "split the difference" compromise, so one click gets you 20. Uniform page sizes is more consistent with other parts of the application, and is the direction that we'd like to move further toward in the future.

FWIW, I prefer the new system. Six wasn't quite enough. Thirty-six was too many. Ten/Ten works well for me.

Eli,

The new setting is not working.

I had a PG open. I let Logos upgrade to 6.10 beta 1 and restarted it. I changed the setting from 10 to 100. It seemed to take my change.

I hit More on the open PG. It's still giving me 10 more. The setting still says 100.

So I changed the Bible passage and had the PG regenerate. It gives me 10 commentaries. I checked the setting.. it is now back to 10.

What's happening?

Thanks,

Peter

Andrew Batishko

The guide came from May 2014, but only three commentaries in the first section and NONE in the second! The collections have changed slightly but the result seems to be impacted by changes in Prioritization. The commentaries in the third section are the same because the collection of Notes includes the rule mytag:Notes and none are prioritised. The table below shows the number of commentaries to be loaded:-

                  Current guide    Saved guide

section 1         7                     10

section 2           5                     10

section 3           5                     10

There has been no change to the behavior of saved guides. The number of currently visible entries can be saved with the guide (depending on whether or no other significant changes are made to the guide). This number of visible entries could be more than one page if the more link had been clicked, or less than one page if some results had been removed with the "x" button or resources have been hidden. I can't find any way that prioritization affects the initial visibility of results when loading a guide.

This new setting only affects the number of results that are displayed when the section is refreshed, or when the more link is clicked.

Dave Hooton

As for Saved Guides

This one from Dec 2010 originally had two commentaries in the second section. Then "more" expanded it to 12 and it was re-saved with 12

Settings still has 10 commentaries to be shown.

Andrew Batishko

As for Saved Guides

This one from Dec 2010 originally had two commentaries in the second section. Then "more" expanded it to 12 and it was re-saved with 12

Settings still has 10 commentaries to be shown.

That sounds correct to me. The guide is loaded with the number visible it had before. Then clicking more adds however many you have configured (10).

Angela Murashov

These is counter-intuitive. I had expected Enter to confirm the change and "refresh" the number of commentaries,

Agree. We're looking into that.

Fixed in 6.10 Beta 2.

Updated Commentaries section to automatically refresh after changing the number of commentaries selected.