Should Faithlife use Kickstarter instead of Pre Pub?

Kickstarter is awesome... and I wish we'd thought of it. We should have -- we had Pre Pub up and running more than a decade earlier! :-)

While the systems are similar, Kickstarter offers a different audience and a clever model for different levels (and rewards) of sponsorship.

We're we're trying it out for our Bible Sounds project:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/faithlife/bible-sounds-anthems-for-little-theologians

What do you think? Should we extend Pre Pub to support similar levels for new projects? Is it a good idea to try a different channel where we can meet (and get support from) a different pool of users?

And what do you think of Bible Sounds?

-- Bob

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Comments

Mike Childs

Looks like great material.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

Kickstarter looks good, but I wouldn't abandon the current system that most of us are comfortable with. Maybe add Kickstarter as an addition.

EDIT: Bible Sounds is great. It's nice to have something geared towards the babies. [:)]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802767#Comment_802767

In general No.

Seems like it would increase complexity for consumers, AND would increase overhead, doesn't Kickstarter cost like 17%?

I started to say that you might get a better audience on some of the titles stuck in CP for years and years... But even then, most of the people interested in such titles would be already aware of your existing CP system.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802770#Comment_802770

Could be interesting, though I'm not sure the Bible Sounds project gives us a good understanding of how it may work for books/resources/bundles.

How would the project be set up for resources? It seems multiple levels really wouldn't fit ownership of a resource license.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802770#Comment_802770

In general No.

Seems like it would increase complexity for consumers, AND would increase overhead, doesn't Kickstarter cost like 17%?

Agree... Although... (From a Mac User): For all we heard from windows mobile users about how much they would support and pay for an app, they haven't stepped up in CP. Hey, even I placed a bid to help out! Perhaps Kickstarter would be an option.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802775#Comment_802775

This is FL presenting a topsy-turvy face to its customers.

I believe you should present, as a 1st draft, how this would work for your various products, not just kick it off the edge of your desk, a rattling skeleton without any fleshed-out ideas attached, to land in this Forum. Surely, you can share with us some outline of ideas.

I know nothing of Kickstarter. Tell me what is good about it!!!

You showed an example of a new product - we need to know how it might work for the established lines of products.

Everett Headley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802777#Comment_802777

I say Kickstart er would be helpful only as supplemental to the PrePubs.

I WOULD MUCH RATHER LOGOS INVESTED IN IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS THAT WE HAVE CLAMORED FOR ON THESE FORUMS FOR YEARS.

I would gladly pay ~$20 for an add on that would integrate and RSS feed. Kickstart that.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802777#Comment_802777

Kickstarter is something I have had issues with. Not personally but friends I mean. Kickstarter makes no guarantee of a product as described. Indeed in some cases if not enough money is raised you end up get no product. People who have complained to their credit card companies have been told refund was impossible because it is treated as a donation. Most people do not wish to defraud people who do KS, but it is a risk, money up front with no guarantee that you will ever get anything.

-Dan

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802777#Comment_802777

I can see it as a possibility for things that are clearly independent projects. This particular project I have no interest in or opinion about. The only concern that I would have - based on no real information but gleaned from forum responses - is given the recent layoffs is this a case of loosing focus on your primary product or evidence of a weak market for you primary product? My personal reading is much more that you are an ideas man but I have found that I'm often out of step with the forum crowd on such matters.

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802777#Comment_802777

I believe you should present, as a 1st draft, how this would work for your various products,

I'm sorry for the confusion. I didn't meant to suggest that we'd use Kickstarter to replace Pre Pub for things Pre Pub is great at -- like a new Logos Edition electronic book. It was more a question about what to do with things like this, that are different and could have tiers -- should we run them outside, like we're trying now, or try to bring some of this multi-tier purchase concept BACK to the Pre Pub system?

Do people mind that it's a different account system (bad for people with Faithlife users, but opens up non-Logos-specific products like this one to a larger audience), or think we shouldn't do that?

I meant the question to be a little provocative, but not antagonistic. :-)

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802794#Comment_802794

The only concern that I would have ... is this a case of loosing focus on your primary product or evidence of a weak market for you primary product?

I expected someone would ask this. :-)

At some level, every time any team member here does anything other than the thing you want done first, it's a distraction. Even if that team member (say, a motion graphics designer) doesn't have the skills to accomplish that user's top priority (say, fixing a particular bug). We could have fired team member A and spent the money to hire team member B who can do what you want! (I'm being facetious...)

And with team members going to lunch, or getting coffee, or working on Proclaim instead of Logos or the Android App instead of the iOS App, well, we're always disappointing someone with our poor allocation of resources. And, for that someone, it's true. Alas!

I am an ideas person, and we're going to keep exploring new ones. At some point, yes, we'll reach diminishing returns on new features in the core product. At some point more users will want mobile-only, or web-only, or Mac OS X 27.34 Wild-Panther-Only support, and we'll regret not having put more energy into that earlier. And we'll regret the energy we did put into researching how to make a BlackBerry app. :-)

And beyond all that -- the constant search for new ideas, new products, new platforms -- there's also the fact that awesome creative people can get bored / stuck / frustrated if all they do is crank out very important and very useful but very much the same stuff. So sometimes we encourage doing something really different, if we can help it cover itself.

Bible Sounds is a load of fun for the team involved, and our goal is to have it cover its costs. It also stretches skill sets, helps us learn new techniques and tools, explores a new market for (very different) Bible-oriented content, and gives us a way to enter the attention-sphere of people (Christian parents?) who might never have encountered us otherwise, but might yet decide they need Bible software, after discovering us somewhere they hang out (Kickstarter?).

It's an experiment. :-)

Mike Tourangeau

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802805#Comment_802805

I am an ideas person, and we're going to keep exploring new ones

This is why Logos is awesome. My wife calls it my "other wife" [:O] but seriously, I love Logos and look forward to what the company produces.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802805#Comment_802805

@ Bob

I have only used Logos for about 5 years now. I am very happy with the software and I started with Logos 4 then upgraded to 5 & 6.

I have a good bit of money for me in your product Logos Bible software.

It does seam to me that money issues at Logos/FL have been dictating change for the company lately. With the cuts in the sales staff, i did not look to much into this.

But now with starting new projects like this kickstarter, it makes me start to woulder about Logos future. And this may also cause me to not spend as much or to be careful about what i buy in the future.

Please understand Bob i do know that Logos is a business and that you are wanting to come up with different ways of making money. But when I as a user see the company drifting from the core product that is when i get concerned.

By core I mean Logos 6, the Logos mobile apps, also I like the new Logos Now & Cloud.

I think the most important that Logos/FL should be doing is support what we your customers have already paid for.

We have many Pre-pubs that have been under contract from back in 2014 or longer, what is the hold up with all of these is it understaffing? And then we see a new thing like Kickstarter.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802816#Comment_802816

I think that it has potential and would be interested in seeing it tested by Faithlife.

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802812#Comment_802812

Its a good idea Bob. Perhaps try it out on a few fringe products to see if it takes off. I suppose its a bit like community pricing anyway isn't it. It is good to see you inovating

Have you ever considered something akin to open sourcing as well - i.e. get customers to proof read stuff for a free copy of it. It could allow you to put more information out there with the current level of staff you have and allow people to get free material with the knowledge they have helped produce something great

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802802#Comment_802802

I'm sorry for the confusion. I didn't meant to suggest that we'd use Kickstarter to replace Pre Pub for things Pre Pub is great at -- like a new Logos Edition electronic book. It was more a question about what to do with things like this, that are different and could have tiers -- should we run them outside, like we're trying now, or try to bring some of this multi-tier purchase concept BACK to the Pre Pub system?

I don't mind you using Kickstarter for things that are very different — you've done so before with the coffee-table book of Bible art.

But as you're an ideas man, I do think there is room for more innovation to supplement the existing pre-pub and community pricing programme.

For example:

A page where Logos Now subscribers can vote on the priority of possible features. Give each subscriber three votes, which they can pledge towards one big project, or three smaller projects, or one medium and one small project. Every month or two, commit to doing the most popular project, add two or three new suggestions, and let people reassign their votes.
A proper suggestions page for resources, where people can see search for books, and vote for them (a kind or pre-pre-pub). There'd be a league table, and we could see how many people have voted for each resource. When books were produced, you'd move them to a separate list, so that people could see that views are listening to. You couldn't commit to producing the books of course, as that would depend on the publishers, but it would be a much better system than the current one.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802842#Comment_802842

Mark Barnes indicated: ''A proper suggestions page for resources, where people can see search for books, and vote for them (a kind or pre-pre-pub). There'd be a league table, and we could see how many people have voted for each resource. When books were produced, you'd move them to a separate list, so that people could see that views are listening to. You couldn't commit to producing the books of course, as that would depend on the publishers, but it would be a much better system than the current one.''

I believe this is a very good idea wherein the core product is well taken care of, and is seen to be well taken care of.

Re Kickstarter: Yeah, I could go to the web + find out how it works, but I believe when FL brings a new idea to the forum, the writer should say how it works. That's good sense, + good business.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802802#Comment_802802

I didn't meant to suggest that we'd use Kickstarter to replace Pre Pub for things Pre Pub is great at -- like a new Logos Edition electronic book.

What would a Logos Edition Electronic Book be?

Geo Philips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802846#Comment_802846

I backed the Kickstarter for 'Picturing Scripture' and I backed this one too.

That being said, Prepub could take some ideas from Kickstarter. In general, I think Prepub (not community) prices could be lower and you could offer higher tiers with more rewards.

For eg., there is a recent prepub that bundles in Barclay's 'The Gift' with a couple of other books.

I am only interested in 'The Gift' so I didnt back it (I got the core of Gundry's argument from tons of related journal articles and it didnt interest me.) Now what if just 'The Gift' was offered at $10 cheaper than the bundle with all three books? I would have backed that.

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802856#Comment_802856

https://www.logos.com/product/55073/eerdmans-new-testament-studies-upgrade

This is the prepub Geo Phillips mentioned. I am not at all interested in 'Peter False,' but will read the other 2. I signed up because I want 'Paul...Gift.' I am not firmly signed up with this trio as 'Peter False' is a non-starter for me. I am lately less willing to spend on a mixed bag such as this. As time moves on, I will see which pre's receive a pub date in relation to this collection's pub schedule, then decide.

If 'Paul...Gift' had been set up for a solo run thru pre, I would stay in till the volume is published.

George Somsel

Meh

Fred Sprinkle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802856#Comment_802856

Hello Geo. Thanks for the support!

Hi Logos friends. It's me. I'm the problem. [:)] My animation team and I are the ones animating Bible Sounds.

Yes Bible Sounds is a bit of an experiment, but a very thoughtful and rooted one.

It started with the question of, "what would kids content look like from a Faithlife perspective?"

The answer was easy, it would be focused on "growing in the light of the Bible". It wouldn't be focused on abstract moralizing. It wouldn't try to change kids' behavior. That's probably best left to parents. I'm confident that what we are making is awesome and I would be honored if you all would take a moment to check it out: http://fl.vu/Mj57S

Sadly Bob is right. I don't know how to code in Python or C#, so I can't fix bugs.

But I do spend a lot of my time working on awesome animations and interactives for Logos. Have you seen those David DeSilva videos? The ones with subjects like "Business and Order in Corinth". My team makes those. And we will continue making great media for Logos.

Thanks for watching our work! It's an honor to get to make cool stuff for you all.

Fred

JC54

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802894#Comment_802894

What I love about Kickstart and would definitely be a good idea for Pre-Pub is that with Kickstart it is actually visible what amount of money is needed and how many people are in the project.

I do not need to know, I would just love to know (also with community pricing).

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802903#Comment_802903

Why not make this as an iOS app? Plenty of iOS book apps for $3.99-$4.99 with equal quality contents and efforts.

Or you guys can make a YouTube channel for kids and let the traffic views prove the quality. (you can make $$ too you know)

I have kids and I always go to YouTube to show my kids bible illustrations and ABC's.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802842#Comment_802842

A proper suggestions page for resources, where people can see search for books, and vote for them (a kind or pre-pre-pub). There'd be a league table, and we could see how many people have voted for each resource.

Have you seen http://suggestbooks.uservoice.com/forums/308269-book-suggestions/filters/top ?

It implements much of what you ask for (and at zero cost to us, so it's not "distracting" us from building other things [:)])

Ted Weis

While the systems are similar, Kickstarter offers a different audience and a clever model for different levels (and rewards) of sponsorship.

We're we're trying it out for our Bible Sounds project:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/faithlife/bible-sounds-anthems-for-little-theologians

And what do you think of Bible Sounds?

-- Bob

Have you considered reaching out to a children's ministry organization? If the aim is to produce biblically centered, literate products, I could possibly envision that goal lining up with say, Child Evangelism Fellowship, or Samaritan Purses' Operation Christmas Child outreach.

Just thinking aloud.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802856#Comment_802856

That being said, Prepub could take some ideas from Kickstarter. In general, I think Prepub (not community) prices could be lower and you could offer higher tiers with more rewards.

I agree with this.

DAL

Concerning prepub, as the older folks would say, "If it ain't broke don't fix it." This kickstart thing does not look appealing at all. It might work for the kids' "project" but not for books that are published in Logos format. And this kids' "project" if you can't afford it don't start it or else you're going to have some more people getting laid off (See the Verbum' experience to get a glimpse of what happens when you want to create a different brand name project that doesn't produce enough revenue to help itself stay afloat). Besides this whole kids' thing I think Logos should leave it alone. I understand some users get all excited about having some "logos for kids" type of thing but be realistic is not a market that logos should waste their time on because is not their thing and face it, it's not gonna take off; especially when you're asking for different amounts of financial support to get it going and users don't really get much in return -- not to mention that if you do really want something in return you're going to have to dish out $10,000 bucks to "customize it" and you will still have a bunch of nonsense restrictions -- sorry, but is a huge no, no! Kick the "kickstart" none sense out the window and save yourself a huge headache! Yes, you are very welcome for the free advice!

DAL

Average Joe

I think Kickstarter is a good fit for a project like this. I see some pros and cons.

Pros:

The different levels of giving with different rewards. Gives people options
The option to donate as much as you want on top of that. I've seen many occasions where people lament something languishing in Pre-Pub or Community Pricing and say that they would gladly pay more than the current price/bid if it meant the item would move into production. Now is our chance to put our money where our mouth is [:D]
An expiration date. This provides a sense of urgency which may encourage people to move on the product and decrease the chance of it languishing in Pre-Pub purgatory
An additional storefront. Kickstarter is quite popular and this provides the opportunity to reach non-Logos consumers

Cons:

Payment is due up front
Cannot use Logos credit or payment plans
An expiration date. Could kill a project that just might need a little bit more time to make it across the finish line
An additional storefront. Regular Logos users have to go to a third party site and create a separate account, hoping all the while that it gets linked up with their Faithlife account

Some points made both lists. [:)]

I know there will always be those who balk at new ventures, but I am glad to see Faithlife pursuing new ideas. That's how a company stays in business. And the longer you stay in business, the longer I have access to my digital library. [;)] Sure, some will be misses. But then you will also have the hits.

I think this particular project is a great idea and I love the tagline. But then, I studied theology and like the idea of something that is geared towards my kids but is not fluffy on content. Will that focus play to a larger audience? I'm not sure, but I hope so.

Jim Erwin

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802920#Comment_802920

I think the idea has merit. However, Lifeway's Ministry Grid, and RightNowMedia use a subscription model to access thier library. For the price I pay for Logos Now, I could also get access to over 2000 videos, including videos for families and kids. This project should probably have launched as a subscription model instead of Kickstarter.

I realize that using Kickstarter may sound innovative, but it really is just a way to get donations from people who would not otherwise buy from Faithlife. Will it bring in new customers? Maybe. But like I said, people who are subscribing may see the costs for the product as too high. Why buy this when you can subscribe elsewhere and get more.

Personally, this seems like a "throw something on the wall and see what sticks" approach rather than innovation. I understand the idea of building an ecosystem so that people would stay in for Bible software (Apple, Google, etc.). But this seems to be outside the scope of Bible software.

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802909#Comment_802909

Have you seen http://suggestbooks.uservoice.com/forums/308269-book-suggestions/filters/top ?

It implements much of what you ask for (and at zero cost to us, so it's not "distracting" us from building other things )

If you want us using this (off-site pages can be a pain), there ought to be a permalink on the top of the Suggestions forum, if not on top of each of the denomination-specific forums as well. If it is hard to find, it won't be used as consistently.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802940#Comment_802940

there ought to be a permalink on the top of the Suggestions forum

Great suggestion! [;)]

Done: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/122900.aspx

scooter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802940#Comment_802940

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Have you seen http://suggestbooks.uservoice.com/forums/308269-book-suggestions/filters/top ?

It implements much of what you ask for (and at zero cost to us, so it's not "distracting" us from building other things )

Doc B. is 100% right. Finally, Brad, I put a desktop link in my computer, after jetting there via Ur link. FL has not prioritized this, it just has a page way back up in the woods somewhere. People like me, who have been around awhile, but who are not good/do not find it fun messing around the back 40 trying to find something that should be better highlighted and newbees overwhelmed by all this stuff, need a path to items like this.

FL does not sell only to computer savvy people. The links and goat trails must be set up for those most likely to get lost and say 'phooey.' I believe this is self-evident, but the evidence that FL does not think so is readily seen.

Mark's idea thus highlights a need that FL, by filling, will sell more of their core line.

Tony Walker

Should Faithlife use Kickstarter instead of Pre Pub?"

as long as it doesn't turn into Bibliotheca

SineNomine

It does seam to me that money issues at Logos/FL have been dictating change for the company lately. With the cuts in the sales staff, i did not look to much into this.

But now with starting new projects like this kickstarter, it makes me start to woulder about Logos future. And this may also cause me to not spend as much or to be careful about what i buy in the future.

FaithLife's foray into Kickstarter isn't quite as new as you think.

What do you think? Should we extend Pre Pub to support similar levels for new projects? Is it a good idea to try a different channel where we can meet (and get support from) a different pool of users?

Your first Kickstarter project worked. If this one also works, then I think you will have shown that FL can create Kickstarter projects that work. In such a case, it makes sense to me for FL to continue to use Kickstarter for off-the-beaten-path projects (Hint: If you back a few other Kickstarter projects, FL will appear more credible to regular users of Kickstarter.)

Tweaking Pre-Pub to learn from Kickstarter seems like a good idea to me.

Al Het

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802805#Comment_802805

And we'll regret the energy we did put into researching how to make a BlackBerry app. :-)

They're not dead yet. Might possibly prove to not be a waist of energy, maybe.

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802969#Comment_802969

Maybe a move to Kickstarter for the Windows app may help it...

Bob Pritchett

An interesting result of this experiment already is that a significant number of people are taking the higher tier offer; while 20 have taken the $19 offer so far (and some the $10), there are 17 that took the $69 offer, which represents 46% of the revenue so far, even though it's only 30% of the orders...

(Thanks to those of you who are participating!)

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/803645#Comment_803645

An interesting result of this experiment already is that a significant number of people are taking the higher tier offer; while 20 have taken the $19 offer so far (and some the $10), there are 17 that took the $69 offer, which represents 46% of the revenue so far, even though it's only 30% of the orders...

It would be interesting to see how many of those people are regular Kickstarter supporters, how many are regular Faithlife customers, and how many are both. In my own periodic browsing of Kickstarter, I've seen that many (most?) successful attempts to raise funds for physical products have very successful tiers in the $100-350 USD range. In that light, $69, even for something with arguably less potential than a 3D printer, is easily not-above what people are willing to spend.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/803651#Comment_803651

for what its worth, I won't be bidding on the resource. Not because I have no interest in the resource, but because I am not a fan of kickstarter. In principal yes, in practice no.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/803655#Comment_803655

This Kickstarter effort is still making progress, but it's not very fast....

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/805551#Comment_805551

No.

Kevin A. Purcell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/802920#Comment_802920

Cannot use Logos credit or payment plans

One way to counteract this weakness, Logos could easily create a level of backer support that includes a future credit or let you call them and get a refund in the amount of a credit you had on your account.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/805930#Comment_805930

I am not really sure what that "kickstarter" means in practical terms in this context.

Could someone explain it in one sentence?

For me it currently sounds something like a car collector trying to start a Russian vintage car from the 1950s.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/806053#Comment_806053

Kickstarter is an American website used to fund raise for different projects.

Pluses - organizations that are desperate for cash, or unable to afford to produce an item (Eg new or otherwise unstable companies) can crowd source the finances required to produce said product.

Typically there are a variety of levels you can choose to invest at with corresponding rewards of various value.

For example the first level may be a 1$ donation, for which they create a page on their website thanking everyone who went in for a dollar. The second level may be 10$ and you get the most basic level of widget (batteries not included). The third level may be 25$ and you get the widget, batteries, and all the "extras". The fourth level may be 50$ and you get everything listed before, a T-shirt, and first dibs on "investing" in their next creation - and so fourth usually ending with a multi-thousand dollar top package that includes everything before, and dinner with the creator/team that created the widget.

The problem is Kickstarter adds something like 17% to the cost of the project (eg if it cost 1000$ to produce your widget, you'd need to raise an extra 17% or 1700$ +/- on top of that to pay kickstarter for the privilege), further unlike cp and pp, where you pay when the project is complete, with KS you pay up front, and if the project never comes to fruition then you're out however much money you spent.

Considering Faithlifes recent pulling of hundreds of pre-pub titles, if they were to apply that same paradigm to their kickstart titles then it would amount to large scale pick-pocketing - with your permission.

Maybe you aren't like me, and finances aren't an issue. Maybe you can go buy whatever you want because you want it, and almost 2$ for every 10$ spent wouldn't matter. Maybe you can afford to give them 20, 50, or 100$ for a title that never comes to fruition, or is later canceled and they keep your money. Maybe that doesn't bother you.

But that doesn't work for me. At all.

Edit: I think if Bob were to sit down and think about it, based on the little I know of the man that this would not work for him either.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/806058#Comment_806058

Considering Faithlifes recent pulling of hundreds of pre-pub titles, if they were to apply that same paradigm to their kickstart titles then it would amount to large scale pick-pocketing - with your permission.

Faithlife restructuring pre-publication to allow "Kickstarter" variation of amounts toward resource development would be attractive, which allows Faithlife (and their users) to avoid out-sourced overhead. Perhaps Faithlife could develop resources in stages: e.g. first as an eBook. Crowd source corrections from user community along with tagging for Logos resource. Practical challenge is cash flow and what to do if money is collected prior to resource release.

Perhaps Faithlife could negotiate with publishers to allow eBook enhancements for use in Faithlife applications. The enhanced eBook could be a Logos resource that has Biblical reference tagging (Shepherd's Notes comes to mind).

The Vyrso eBook The Names of God Bible would be an excellent candidate for "kickstarter" conversion to Logos resource(s): perhaps as a visual filter with links so the Names of God could be in many Bibles (with a notes resource that has Names of God studies).

Keep Smiling [:)]

GregW

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/806053#Comment_806053

I am not really sure what that "kickstarter" means in practical terms in this context.

Could someone explain it in one sentence?

For me it currently sounds something like a car collector trying to start a Russian vintage car from the 1950s.

It's a website people use to raise money for business projects. see kickstarter.com.

JohnB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/806058#Comment_806058

further unlike cp and pp, where you pay when the project is complete, with KS you pay up front, and if the project never comes to fruition then you're out however much money you spent.

abondservant, your comment really puzzles me. I have only used kickstart once and they did not take a penny from me until the project met its financial target (the equivalent of going 'under contract'). Definitely NOT right at the beginning when I entered with my bid and I could cancel or move up or down with my bidding amount right until it met its target.

Have you ever used Kickstart??

I do not know if that was normal or the choice of those running the project but unless the system has changed I would envisage that FL would - or at least could - run their projects that way. OK we would pay when the project moved from the equivalent of moving from CP to 'under contract' but that is a far cry from the gloom and doom that you were intimating with us risking losing our money. Unless you have evidence that FL have cancelled CP cases which were under contract or Kickstart have changed their rules, your statement would seem to be completely unwarranted and grossly unfair to FL - certainly at this stage.

Veli Voipio

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/806066#Comment_806066

Ok, I feel I begin to understand.

I would prefer the "incremental publication" concept:

For example for the Hebrew audio anyone who is willing to pay any amount could do it and the Hebrew audio goes as far as the funds allow, like doing the Genesis 1, and it would be available for those who paid. When other s join, Gen 2 is done and so on. Those who pay a lot will get the same as those who paid less [H]

Or for example with an ordinary book with no copyright, it could be added as "handicapped version" (compare golfing) a bit like a personal book: just the text and minimal links at first. When funds grow, more links are added. The links would be snailware but the essential text would be readily available in the Logos context. [sn] Edit: maybe users could also add links while it is in this under construction phase?

If the book has copyrights fees, a funding threshold has to be overcome, but it could be designed as a game, the Logos community adding funds incrementally, each one a little [8-|], and once that done, go to the handicapped version eventually growing to a full version.

Virgil Buttram

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/806168#Comment_806168

To the original question - not "instead of", but "both/and". Content that has heretofore been found in Logos/Verbum/Noet (or even Vyrso) shouldn't be offered as Kickstarters. However, some of the trial balloons that have been floated around here in the past would be good Kickstarters. (Some, however, wouldn't. That's the nature of Kickstarter.)