Somewhat conflicting LN#'s for Teleios/Perfect in 1 Cor. 13:10.....

Don Jenkins

 I've had & been using regularly the Louw-Nida for about 5 years now. I've run in to places where one LN listing might say "Compare LN# xxxx for another interpretation." But the overlapping was clearly shown.

  But when I was defining some of the key words for this week's SS lesson (1 Cor.13:8-13), I R-clicked on 1 Cor. 13:10 Perfect, (NKJV), clicked lemma to get to a BWS.

When it opened, I clicked on the "Louw-Nida" listing & it took me to # 88.36......

.

 So  I went on thinking I had a accurate definition of the word in its 1 Cor 13:10 context. But later, I noticed for the same 13:10 Perfect, in the lower & inline reverse interlinears, it had listed LN# 68.23......

.

  Again, I understand a clearly marked similar listing. But this is from pretty different domains. 

LN 68 = Aspect - (Complete, Finish, Succeed)

LN 88 = Moral & Ethical Qualities (Perfect, Perfection)

  I teach a multi- denominational class. I've always done my very best to teach as best I can only what is written. Context is always king, & my personal denominational leanings take a very distant back seat. The class has always been gracious & cooperated in kind. 

 One of those 2 definitions favors the personal view I have. But obviously I want accuracy on this specific word, not my personal bias. 

 So I'm not looking to slam anyone with my "Take", but I especially in the first half of class, want to focus those good people's attention completely & accurately on the text stated in the context it is written from. Then discuss how we feel God wants us to apply & walk it in our lives.

 As most of you know, that word perfect is a sticking point in accurately interpreting/teaching/preaching 1 Cor 13:8-13. I'd like to go in to class with a solid definition of one or the other. 

  Can anyone out there point me as to which one rightly applies? Or do I just let the class know even the scholars aren't sure.

MJ. Smith

Not an answer but https://blog.logos.com/2010/06/you_are_smarter_than_a_lexicon/  or https://blog.logos.com/2015/05/you-should-probably-stop-using-lexicons/ (same content, better layout)

DMB

Hmmm ... when I repeated your steps with NKJV, the BWS > LN landed me at 68.23 ... same as the interlinear.

That said, as MJ alluded to, it's a fool's errand (per most of my commentaries). You need the context, and as you pointed out, the interpretations vary considerably.

In any event, given your depth of interest, BDAG lexicon would be a much better place to start, since it looks at a broader grouping of writings (ditto HALOT for hebrew).

For any recent AYB purchasers, the new-ish Fitzmyer was interesting on this verse.

Allen Browne

Don Jenkins said:

I was defining some of the key words for this week's SS lesson (1 Cor.13:8-13), I R-clicked on 1 Cor. 13:10 Perfect, (NKJV)

Hi Don

Interesting question. This example reinforces that tools like Louw-Nida are always expressing opinion, not certainty. They are useful tools (because the opinion is based on the authors’ quite well-informed understanding of language), so they are often right and sometimes wrong.

As you say, "Context is always king" so you will need to decide whether 1 Cor 13 is primarily about “moral and ethical qualities” such as love (LN 88.36), an “aspect” of revelation (LN 68.23), “mature behavior” as the Corinthians grow (LN 88.100), or something else.

Of course, “context” needs to be considered at multiple levels: the sentence, the paragraph, the thrust of the section of the book, and the force of the book as a whole.

Another way to arrive at a better understanding of the likelihood of a particular semantic domain is to see how this word is used elsewhere in this book, in other books by this author, and by other writers in the time. Again, this doesn’t prove with any certainty that the writer has used the word in the same way in this context, but it does inform your understanding of the domain that the writer defaults to. To do that in Logos 6, right-click the word “perfect”, choose the Lemma, and choose “Search this resource.” Look first for the other cases where the word appears in 1 Cor, then in Paul, then in the rest of the N.T. In this case, the results are quite persuasive.

Our crucial stance is humility. Language is too slippery and imprecise for us to deal with certainties. Our conclusions are at best a degree of probability, which forces us to remain open to each other.

God bless as you study and present his word in this mixed environment.