Planning to teach my youth group Apologetics
I am planning on teaching my small youth group basic apologetics. Any key Logos materials you would suggest?
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I used a lot of different sources when I did the same thing. I found Geisler's Apologetics helpful for outlines and filled in using other sources, too many to list.
I would offer this thought: instead of giving "ammunition" to students to use against others of different beliefs, I would point out the differences between one and Christianity and give proofs why Christianity is true and more believable. This places the focuses on their faith instead of the others.
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The Apologetics Study Bible:
Defending Your Faith
Answers to Tough Questions
Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics ---> may be too advanced
Dave
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Everett Headley said:
I would offer this thought: instead of giving "ammunition" to students to use against others of different beliefs, I would point out the differences between one and Christianity and give proofs why Christianity is true and more believable. This places the focuses on their faith instead of the others.
I would strongly emphasize this. "Ammunition" tends to get recycled and if it was wrong the first time, never gets corrected. As a member of a group often targeted by the ammunition, if gets hard not to laugh when presented with ammunition based on a book from the 1910's that was garbage to begin with. (Yes, I am serious and not exaggerating.) You'll be more sure that what you present is true if you focus on your/their faith.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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In teaching an Intro level Apologetics course, I prepared primarily from McDowell, Baker Encyclopedia and a couple others.
For the students and the basis of the lectures I used The Unshakable Truth by Josh and Sean McDowell (not in Logos yet) - it is setup with 12 "truths" that flowed very well over a 12 week study for beginners.
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Frank Sauer said:
I prepared primarily from McDowell
For students, this is a good resource: http://www.christianbook.com/dont-check-your-brains-the-door/josh-mcdowell/9781400317202/pd/317202
I am unsure why it isn't in Logos/Vyrso... but I did notice that CBD (apparently) has the updated (2011) eBook, whereas Kindle (apparently) has the old one.
Frank Sauer said:The Unshakable Truth by Josh and Sean McDowell (not in Logos yet) - it is setup with 12 "truths" that flowed very well over a 12 week study for beginners.
Do you mean this? https://vyrso.com/product/39056/the-unshakable-truth-how-you-can-experience-the-12-essentials-of-a-relevant-faith
Don't forget Vyrso!
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A 35 year old Asian friend recently commented, "I was half atheist, half Buddhist, and when I became a Christian I knew I was supposed to believe certain things and not believe other things, so I did. But I didn't know why. Now that I am hearing apologetics (she is attending an apologetic class a friend is teaching), I am at last understanding that believing these things is rational--it makes sense to me now!"
I hope the best for you as you plant seeds and water and as you provide them with ways to work with skeptics and mockers and seekers.
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MJ. Smith said:
"Ammunition" tends to get recycled and if it was wrong the first time, never gets corrected. As a member of a group often targeted by the ammunition, if gets hard not to laugh when presented with ammunition based on a book from the 1910's that was garbage to begin with. (Yes, I am serious and not exaggerating.) You'll be more sure that what you present is true if you focus on your/their faith.
So, so true! I am glad that you can keep your sense of humor. I found it very useful when searching through denominations/belief systems about 50 years ago to obtain an official teaching pack from various denomination. Your group had an excellent simple course for free. At least I knew where we disagreed and (more importantly to me) where we agreed. I do get a little tired of trying to correct those who love the garbage arguments (whether against your group or against mine).
I have come to the opinion that it is a waste of time trying to work with many those who see their mission as to point out all my errors and I now just refuse to discuss anything with them (“A man convinced against his will Is of the same opinion still”).I just tell them that I will not argue with them and I will share my beliefs only with someone who is genuine interested in hearing what they are and will actually listen. I will then give him the chance to explain his if he chooses to. For me, that is the place where apologetics fits in.
Of course many people are happy to argue with each other - just don't involve me!!
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Not sure what the age group / format you are looking at is, but it might be worth it to take a look at https://vyrso.com/product/24355/coffee-house-chronicles-set . They are geared more for a high school / college age student and present apologetics in a real world story setting.
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TCBlack said:
I am planning on teaching my small youth group basic apologetics. Any key Logos materials you would suggest?
I would recommend Holman QuickSource Guide to Christian Apologetics.
It's ideally suited to teaching a youth group class, as the TOC shows:
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Busenitz book Reasons We Believe would be my number 1 choice. I've taught apologetics and found this to be excellent in presentation and method, best I know of.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
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TCBlack said:
I am planning on teaching my small youth group basic apologetics. Any key Logos materials you would suggest?
FWIW: Personally, I would begin with some simple basics re: Logic before I started anything on Apologetics. Logical, rational thinking is always the first tool required before any other pursuit, imo. (cf. John 1:1)
I do not have any Logos resource suggestions for you, however, even the most basic instruction on, say, informal fallacies is far more than the typical American curriculum would provide.
FWIW2 and slightly OT: Here is an interesting 10 minute talk on how we, as Americans, are so-o-o susceptible to the manipulation of truth and do not even perceive it much less think our way through it.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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John Ankerberg (Vyrso), Dr. Robert A. Morey and Francis A. Schaeffer (Logos), in general, are my favorites. Rose Publishing has a few good ones if you are looking for brief, inexpensive overviews. Ankerberg's are affordable as well and I believe you can also get them in print from his ministry as also with the Rose materials which, in printed form, might make good handouts. I have a couple of resources by William Lane Craig which I haven't gotten around to reading yet. There are several others available. It depends basically on what you are aiming at (creationism v. evolution, cults, atheism, culture wars, etc.)
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TCBlack said:
I am planning on teaching my small youth group basic apologetics. Any key Logos materials you would suggest?
The best advice I could give for an apologetics course is "DON'T DO IT !"
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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I would suggest giving them a basic grounding in logical thought as a foundation before you jump into a bunch of arguments, etc. As a complimentary topic, working Greg Koukl's "Tactics" material into mix would be a good move (in my opinion).
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Ken Hicks said:
As a complimentary topic, working Greg Koukl's "Tactics" material into mix would be a good move (in my opinion).
I agree with Ken, while not in Logos, Stand to Reason has a lot of great apologetics material for younger people. Their website is www.str.org.
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TCBlack said:
I am planning on teaching my small youth group basic apologetics. Any key Logos materials you would suggest?
1. You cannot either prove or disprove God — it is a presupposition with which you begin. Personally, I find the idea that there is no God sad.
This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand....
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Under the twinkle of a fading star.I find the presupposition that there is a God who created the universe and controls it in all respects more positive.
2. Establishing the Christian position by argument presumes that Christianity is a matter of thought. It is not. It is a matter of faith. I believe in the creator who loves his creation and seeks its good as exhibited in Jesus Christ. I believe in God's love for all men — and for ME. To reduce Christianity to logical argument is Gnostic.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
To reduce Christianity to logical argument is Gnostic.
True, but we use reason to interpret scripture and to accept/reject beliefs ... well, at least we should. But as my tagline says ....
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:
Establishing the Christian position by argument presumes that Christianity is a matter of thought. It is not. It is a matter of faith.
Christianity is a matter of relationship. The basis for that relationship isn't irrational. Faith requires trust, but it isn't a "leap in the dark." The goal of apologetics should not be to "make someone a christian" (that sort of faith would be Gnostic), but rather to eliminate barriers to faith.
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Apologetics is necessary when refuting someone (gently) who is making a false claim about Christianity. If your goal is to equip a high schooler to address any question that someone might have about Christianity then it is essential that the high schooler have a thorough understanding about what the Bible teaches about every topic and not just the current hot button issues.
Put another way, I believe that apologetics is teaching Christian doctrine reactively. Systematic Theology is teaching Christian doctrine proactively. When you teach proactively, you equip them to know the answers to all the questions, even the ones that they aren't even dealing with yet.
That is why, as a high school teacher at my church, I teach through Systematic Theology. I use Wayne Grudem's version because it is one of the most recent so it addresses more current issues that historically have not been written about in too much detail (i.e. Women's roles in the church). Of course, that is just a starting point. I'd also suggest Historical Theology by Gregg Allison and John Frame's Doctrine of the Knowledge of God.
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I hear and appreciate your feedback. George, I obviously disagree - I'm going to teach basic apologetics. I'm not trying to prove or disprove God. Apologetics is about a reasoned defense of what you believe. Peter tells us to be prepared to give an answer for our hope... I think that fits my goal here.
Yes I've been teaching theology. Yes I've been teaching the gospel. Yes I've been doing book studies. We're actually walking through Proverbs right now (and they love it!).
Anyway, Mark thank you for suggesting the Holman resource. I'm going to take a look. I'm also considering some time spent with the fallacy hound.
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The one and true God can be known with certainty through the natural light of human reason by the means of those things that are made by God. Our intellect makes a decision to believe in God and through faith we believe in the divine revelation provided to us through Jesus and the Holy Spirit. To believe that it is only faith is to believe fideism and to believe only intellect is to believe rationalism. Both in my opinion are dangerously wrong.MJ. Smith said:George Somsel said:To reduce Christianity to logical argument is Gnostic.
True, but we use reason to interpret scripture and to accept/reject beliefs ... well, at least we should. But as my tagline says ....
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Stephen Terlizzi said:
The one and true God can be known with certainty through the natural light of human reason by the means of those things that are made by God.
Absolutely not ! There must be some correspondence to be able to know something. There is no correspondence between the universe and God. Whatever you see or feel or hear is NOT GOD. God is wholly other and as such cannot be inferred from the universe (which is why you cannot prove the existence of God. In fact, to say that God "exists" is heresy since that would make him a part of the universe.
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.
The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), 1 Co 1:20–25.
This is why we are not to make images of God since by doing so we are denigrating God to the level of the creation.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Restraint ... Patience ... M-m-must say nothing ... [:#]
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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Dennis Kramer said:
Put another way, I believe that apologetics is teaching Christian doctrine reactively. Systematic Theology is teaching Christian doctrine proactively. When you teach proactively, you equip them to know the answers to all the questions, even the ones that they aren't even dealing with yet.
This is more acceptable. True apologetics is CONFESSION.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George, I recommend you investigate the writings of early Greek philosophers, like Plato and Aristotle, who discussed the necessity for God from their examination of nature. Of course, it takes Christian revelation to understand the true triune nature of God. It was a worthwhile experience for me.George Somsel said:Stephen Terlizzi said:The one and true God can be known with certainty through the natural light of human reason by the means of those things that are made by God.
Absolutely not ! There must be some correspondence to be able to know something. There is no correspondence between the universe and God. Whatever you see or feel or hear is NOT GOD. God is wholly other and as such cannot be inferred from the universe (which is why you cannot prove the existence of God. In fact, to say that God "exists" is heresy since that would make him a part of the universe.
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, God decided, through the foolishness of our proclamation, to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks desire wisdom, 23 but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For God’s foolishness is wiser than human wisdom, and God’s weakness is stronger than human strength.
The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989), 1 Co 1:20–25.
This is why we are not to make images of God since by doing so we are denigrating God to the level of the creation.
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Stephen Terlizzi said:
George, I recommend you investigate the writings of early Greek philosophers, like Plato and Aristotle, who discussed the necessity for God from their examination of nature. Of course, it takes Christian revelation to understand the true triune nature of God. It was a worthwhile experience for me.
In college I was a philosophy minor and a Greek major so I am familiar with the philosophers in both English and Greek. Calling something a god does not make it one.
18True, O LORD, the kings of Assyria have annihilated all the nations and their lands 19and have committed their gods to the flames and have destroyed them; for they are not gods, but man’s handwork of wood and stone. 20But now, O LORD our God, deliver us from his hands, and let all the kingdoms of the earth know that You, O LORD, alone [are God].”
Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1985), Is 37:18–20.
God is "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not the god of the philosophers." Pascal
22Then Elijah said to the people, “I am the only prophet of the LORD left, while the prophets of Baal are four hundred and fifty men. 23Let two young bulls be given to us. Let them choose one bull, cut it up, and lay it on the wood, but let them not apply fire; I will prepare the other bull, and lay it on the wood, and will not apply fire. 24You will then invoke your god by name, and I will invoke the LORD by name; and let us agree: the god who responds with fire, that one is God.” And all the people answered, “Very good!”
Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1985), 1 Ki 18:22–24.
We all know how that ended.
It reminds me of a story about Abraham Lincoln (whether true or apocryphal, I know not) that he was once asked how many legs a dog would have if we were to call a tail a leg. He replied "Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one."
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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OK to make sure everyone thinks this has gone off track at some point don't we need a reference to perennial philosophy? We've got natural theology and presuppositional apologetics ... what else should we toss in?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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George Somsel said:Stephen Terlizzi said:
George, I recommend you investigate the writings of early Greek philosophers, like Plato and Aristotle, who discussed the necessity for God from their examination of nature. Of course, it takes Christian revelation to understand the true triune nature of God. It was a worthwhile experience for me.
In college I was a philosophy minor and a Greek major so I am familiar with the philosophers in both English and Greek. Calling something a god does not make it one.
18True, O LORD, the kings of Assyria have annihilated all the nations and their lands 19and have committed their gods to the flames and have destroyed them; for they are not gods, but man’s handwork of wood and stone. 20But now, O LORD our God, deliver us from his hands, and let all the kingdoms of the earth know that You, O LORD, alone [are God].”
Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1985), Is 37:18–20.
God is "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not the god of the philosophers." Pascal
22Then Elijah said to the people, “I am the only prophet of the LORD left, while the prophets of Baal are four hundred and fifty men. 23Let two young bulls be given to us. Let them choose one bull, cut it up, and lay it on the wood, but let them not apply fire; I will prepare the other bull, and lay it on the wood, and will not apply fire. 24You will then invoke your god by name, and I will invoke the LORD by name; and let us agree: the god who responds with fire, that one is God.” And all the people answered, “Very good!”
Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1985), 1 Ki 18:22–24.
We all know how that ended.
It reminds me of a story about Abraham Lincoln (whether true or apocryphal, I know not) that he was once asked how many legs a dog would have if we were to call a tail a leg. He replied "Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one."
Interesting...you would deny Aristotle's argument for the existence of God in Metaphysics that points to an eternal prime mover and leads to the necessity for a transcendent God. To me, this is an important part (i.e. a first step) of apologetics, particularly for atheists and agnostics. Clearly, everyone is eventually dependent on divine revelation to understand the true nature of God and to come into communion with Him as part of the Body of Christ.
Agape,
Steve
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George Somsel said:Stephen Terlizzi said:
George, I recommend you investigate the writings of early Greek philosophers, like Plato and Aristotle, who discussed the necessity for God from their examination of nature. Of course, it takes Christian revelation to understand the true triune nature of God. It was a worthwhile experience for me.
In college I was a philosophy minor and a Greek major so I am familiar with the philosophers in both English and Greek. Calling something a god does not make it one.
18True, O LORD, the kings of Assyria have annihilated all the nations and their lands 19and have committed their gods to the flames and have destroyed them; for they are not gods, but man’s handwork of wood and stone. 20But now, O LORD our God, deliver us from his hands, and let all the kingdoms of the earth know that You, O LORD, alone [are God].”
Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1985), Is 37:18–20.
God is "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not the god of the philosophers." Pascal
22Then Elijah said to the people, “I am the only prophet of the LORD left, while the prophets of Baal are four hundred and fifty men. 23Let two young bulls be given to us. Let them choose one bull, cut it up, and lay it on the wood, but let them not apply fire; I will prepare the other bull, and lay it on the wood, and will not apply fire. 24You will then invoke your god by name, and I will invoke the LORD by name; and let us agree: the god who responds with fire, that one is God.” And all the people answered, “Very good!”
Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh: The Holy Scriptures (Philadelphia: Jewish Publication Society, 1985), 1 Ki 18:22–24.
We all know how that ended.
It reminds me of a story about Abraham Lincoln (whether true or apocryphal, I know not) that he was once asked how many legs a dog would have if we were to call a tail a leg. He replied "Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one."
Interesting...you would deny Aristotle's argument for the existence of God in Metaphysics that points to an eternal prime mover and leads to the necessity for a transcendent God. To me, this is an important part (i.e. a first step) of apologetics, particularly for atheists and agnostics. Clearly, everyone is eventually dependent on divine revelation to understand the true nature of God and to come into communion with Him as part of the Body of Christ.
Agape,
Steve
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Stephen Terlizzi said:
Interesting...you would deny Aristotle's argument for the existence of God in Metaphysics that points to an eternal prime mover and leads to the necessity for a transcendent God.
Are you referencing
Since (1) this is a possible account of the matter, and (2) if it were not true, the world would have proceeded out of [20] night and ‘all things together’ and out of non-being, these difficulties may be taken as solved. There is, then, something which is always moved with an unceasing motion, which is motion in a circle; and this is plain not in theory only but in fact. Therefore the first heavens must be eternal. There is therefore also something which moves them. And since that which is moved and moves is intermediate, there is a mover3 [25] which moves without being moved, being eternal, substance, and actuality. And the object of desire and the object of thought move in this way; they move without being moved.
Aristotle, The Works of Aristotle, ed. W. D. Rose and J. A. Smith, vol. 8 (Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1908), xv.
The unmoved mover is not the God of the bible and not a god at all.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:Stephen Terlizzi said:
Interesting...you would deny Aristotle's argument for the existence of God in Metaphysics that points to an eternal prime mover and leads to the necessity for a transcendent God.
Are you referencing. . .
I was thinking about Book 12 of Metaphysics where he argues for an immortal, unchanging being that is ultimately responsible for all wholeness and orderliness in the sensible world. As I said earlier, Aristotle only had some of the seeds of truth through sense knowledge. It is only through divine revelation that the complete truth is revealed in the Gospels.
However, I have found it valuable to show atheists that one can come to the truth of the necessity of an immortal, unchanging being outside of the material world without using divine revelation and then lead them to divine revelation through Sacred Scripture and Tradition.
Just my humble opinion.
Agape,
Steve
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Really? Remember, he said " Therefore the first heavens must be eternal."
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Here's a nice collection that can give you a lot for many more sessions to come: https://www.logos.com/product/27359/paul-copan-apologetics-collection
I own two titles and I'm planning on buying the rest of the collection. Super nice!
DAL
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