From the Beginning...

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question, so please redirect me if necessary.

Both Matt. 19:4 and Mark 10:6 include apo "From the beginning...". Is it accurate to state that the Greek supports understanding Jesus as affirming a current reality rather than solely a past event (ie. contrasted to "In the beginning..."). Is there a search that could locate similar Greek constructions (maybe Aorist with apo?)

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George Somsel

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to ask this question, so please redirect me if necessary.

Both Matt. 19:4 and Mark 10:6 include apo "From the beginning...". Is it accurate to state that the Greek supports understanding Jesus as affirming a current reality rather than solely a past event (ie. contrasted to "In the beginning..."). Is there a search that could locate similar Greek constructions (maybe Aorist with apo?)

It appears to me to be an instance of BDAG's 2b

② to indicate the point from which someth. begins, whether lit. or fig.…

ⓑ of time from … (on), since (POxy 523, 4; Mel., HE 4, 26, 8; s. Kuhring 54ff).
α. ἀ. τῶν ἡμερῶν Ἰωάννου from the days of John Mt 11:12. ἀ. τῆς ὥρας ἐκείνης 9:22. ἀπʼ ἐκείνης τ. ἡμέρας

William Arndt, Frederick W. Danker, and Walter Bauer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 105.

The point of stating that something is "from the beginning" is that it is a creation ordinance — the way God intended for things to be.

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815466#Comment_815466

It appears to me to be an instance of BDAG's 2b

② to indicate the point from which someth. begins, whether lit. or fig.…

ⓑ of time from … (on), since (POxy 523, 4; Mel., HE 4, 26, 8; s. Kuhring 54ff).
α. ἀ. τῶν ἡμερῶν Ἰωάννου from the days of John Mt 11:12. ἀ. τῆς ὥρας ἐκείνης 9:22. ἀπʼ ἐκείνης τ. ἡμέρας

Thank you - That is helpful.

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815474#Comment_815474

I created the following syntax search:

Instead of looking specifically for ἀρχή, is there a way to search for all "time" words? I'm not sure how to articulate that better...

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815475#Comment_815475

I created the following syntax search...Instead of looking specifically for ἀρχή, is there a way to search for all "time" words? I'm not sure how to articulate that better...

I tried to add Louw Nida domain information, but I'm not getting any search results...

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815475#Comment_815475

Instead of looking specifically for ἀρχή, is there a way to search for all "time" words? I'm not sure how to articulate that better...

Morph Search of NA28:

lemma:ἀπό BEFORE 1-2 WORDS <ln 67>

Searching Library without Bibles found results in Apostolic Fathers.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815608#Comment_815608

Morph Search of NA28:

lemma:ἀπό BEFORE 1-2 WORDS <ln 67>

Is there a reason why my syntax search isn't working? I would like to keep restricting my search to clauses that include AAI verbs.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815656#Comment_815656

Is there a reason why my syntax search isn't working?

For Syntax Search, have learned to mimic Syntax graph structure when creating search: e.g. Matthew 19:4

Morph search had results not found by Syntax Search so looked at Syntax Graph to see what did not match followed by modifying Syntax Search to find verses Matthew 1:17 and 2:16

Morph Search found Matthew 16:21 so looked at Syntax graph followed by modifying search:

Syntax search now includes Matthew Morph Search results; Luke 3:7 was not found so looked at Syntax graph followed by modifying search by checking "Matching skip levels" for ln 67

Syntax Search found Matthew 3:7 but not Luke 3:7 so compared Syntax Graphs so modified search by adding Anything. Morph Search also found Luke 4:13 and Romans 5:14 so modified search again:

Syntax Search results now includes all results for Morph Search:

lemma:ἀπό BEFORE 1-2 WORDS <ln 67>

Keep Smiling [:)]

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815481#Comment_815481

I created the following syntax search...Instead of looking specifically for ἀρχή, is there a way to search for all "time" words? I'm not sure how to articulate that better...

I tried to add Louw Nida domain information, but I'm not getting any search results...

It looks to me like OpenText.org Syntactically Analyzed Greek New Testament Dataset doesn't include LN Subdomains. When I remove "131", I get search results.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815691#Comment_815691

It looks to me like OpenText.org Syntactically Analyzed Greek New Testament Dataset doesn't include LN Subdomains. When I remove "131", I get search results.

Louw-Nida 67.131 is in Subdomain 67F

Keep Smiling [:)]

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815720#Comment_815720

Louw-Nida 67.131 is in Subdomain 67F

What is the correct description for the "131" part of the entry?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815722#Comment_815722

Louw-Nida 67.131 is in Subdomain 67F

What is the correct description for the "131" part of the entry?

LN Article can be 67.131 (see Acts 20:18 in results):

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Is there a search that could locate similar Greek constructions (maybe Aorist with apo?)

Syntax Search for lemma:ἀπό with LN Domain 67 found 88 results:

Syntax Search for lemma:ἀπό with LN Domain 67 in a clause with aorist verb found 78 results:

FYI: Matthew 1:17 does not have a verb; Matthew 11:12 has present tense verb.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815729#Comment_815729

Louw-Nida 67.131 is in Subdomain 67F

What is the correct description for the "131" part of the entry?

LN Article can be 67.131 (see Acts 20:18 in results):

Thank you - That was the missing piece of information:

Who tags each Greek word with Louw Nida LN articles? Is this standardized or resource specific?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815912#Comment_815912

Thank you - That was the missing piece of information:

Observation: Mark 13:9 Syntax has three verbs in one Primary clause and two Secondary clauses. Aorist Active Indicative verb is in one of the secondary clauses while ἀπό is in the other secondary clause.

Who tags each Greek word with Louw Nida LN articles? Is this standardized or resource specific?

Thankful for Faithlife tagging of Greek words with LN articles using numbering in Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains

Thankful for Lexham Analytical Lexicon to the Greek New Testament grouping lemma usage by LN articles for Greek New Testament and Apostolic Father resources, including The Apostolic Fathers Greek-English Interlinear

Noticed ἀπό has five LN articles in the 67 domain.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Andrew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/815935#Comment_815935

Observation: Mark 13:9 Syntax has three verbs in one Primary clause and two Secondary clauses. Aorist Active Indicative verb is in one of the secondary clauses while ἀπό is in the other secondary clause.

Interesting. I would think "from the beginning" actually fits better with the main verb ἐποίησεν rather than the participle κτίσας. What does it mean to be the one who created from (rather than "in") the beginning? I would be tempted to translate this as "the-one-who-created has from/since the beginning made them male and female".

Thankful for Faithlife tagging of Greek words with LN articles using numbering in Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament Based on Semantic Domains

Good to know. That means the tagging is not necessarily how Louw Nida may categorize a particular word.