Somewhat OT: Greek is Killing Me! Any Suggestions?

I am in my first semester of Greek online through Liberty University. My text is Mounce, and I have all of the Zondervan language resources through Logos, including most other available language resources/lexicons. I am in the fourth week and will be finished with Chapter 12 by the end of this week. I teach English, so my knowledge of grammar has been helpful, but the memory work is starting to stress me out severely. I just hit the 3rd Declension endings, and my brain is about to explode.

I have been using the Logos Flash Cards app with Mounce word lists, and that has been helpful, and I have also been using Danny Zacharias' Parse Greek, which has also been very helpful. Does anyone have any tips on ways to more easily/efficiently memorize such concepts? I am doing well so far, but I am starting to get bogged down with so much so fast, and I am afraid that I will have a nervous breakdown by the time I hit verbs. Is it normal to be this stressed out?

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Lynden O. Williams

I feel your pain Joseph. Many a young lady in college felt that Greek took their boyfriends. We called it "lady Greek".

Lee

Is it normal to be this stressed out?

Chill out. It's normal.

Clifford Kvidahl

I encourage you, Joseph, in your studies. There is no easy way to memorize these endings other than just repetition. I am currently tutoring a friend in Greek and have told him the same. One thing to note: really hit home the 3rd declension nouns. These endings will show up again when you begin learning participles, and if you have a good grasp on them you will find yourself in a good spot.

May the Lord bless your studies.

Cliff

Lew Worthington

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825649#Comment_825649

Joseph,

What the others have said is true, of course. I taught Greek for several years and your experience is normal.

I don't know if you're musical or have a rhythmic sense, but some of my students found it helpful to make up jingles or "poems" running through conjugations, declensions, and the like. Eventually, you can let go of these and, if you keep working hard enough, it'll become second nature. English did, didn't it?

Matt Hamrick

I have already done Mounce in Greek 1 and 2 at Boyce College. Memory work is hard in the first and second semester, but be encouraged Joseph, stay diligent and it will come to you. I encourage you to disregard the vocab cards you get from Mounce and write them out yourself and quiz yourself with them. The ones you know stick on one pile, the ones you don't know stick in another pile. Do this every other day and soon the ones you know you can just disregard and focus on what you don't know. Vocab is easy if you stick with it. Paradigms are another story and here I suggest you get a dry erase board and write them out over and over again until you get them. For nouns, remember the rules and the paradigms are easy, but for verbs you will have to write them out over and over again until you get them. I have learned in an academic environment it is meant to be stressful, be encouraged because when it is all over you can use Logos Bible Software to study the original languages just by hovering your mouse. Stick with it and do the work and it will come. One day it will hit you that you know this stuff.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825644#Comment_825644

I just finished my second semester of Greek using Mounce's text as well. Even though I watched the videos, what really helped me was the audio versions of the lectures. It was an extra expense, but I listened to them as I drove back and forth to work. Each way was about the length of one lecture, so over the course of a week I would listen to each lecture 5-6 times. This helped solidify the material in each chapter.

MJ. Smith

Okay, I don't claim to know Greek but I'm a Sanskritist which makes Greek look simple. What some of us learned was that memorizing the declenions and there endings didn't work for everyone. But if one took a simple set of sentences that placed the noun in each person and case and practiced until one could easily place the correction form in context, one learned them with contextual clues which was advantageous compared to knowing the forms in isolation. What matters is that you experiment to find a way to learn them that works for you. P.S. The first Sanskrit Reaader assumed we knew Greek and Latin and could learn by comparison.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825657#Comment_825657

Hello Joseph,

Learning a new language is always intimidating at first and you will forget a lot of what you learn. There are some methods that are better than others. What I mean is that some methods bombard you with information, way too much for you to process in the space allocated (e.g., one lesson). Other methods are better at sorting out material. I recommend Black's Learn to Read New Testament Greek. I have found it more limpid than Mounce. My suggestion is to acquire Black and use it for clarification or to consolidate what you have learned on a given topic. https://www.logos.com/product/5196/learn-to-read-new-testament-greek

I don't find that Logos flashcards have enough functionality yet for optimized language learning. I have used Anki. It is free, multi-platform, and has many free vocabulary sets, including Mounce. It uses a method that takes into account what you know well versus what you need to review, spacing it out accordingly. Another approach, which has its advantages, is that used of memrise (free also) which uses associations (often with a picture) to help you remember words. Studies have shown this approach to be effective (Anki's method is also based on studies on memorization).

http://ankisrs.net/

https://www.memrise.com/

Getting your basic grammar and vocab is hard work at first, but as soon as you can start to do some reading, even a bit every day will do wonders, will firm up what you learn, and encourage you. John and 1 John are great for that, using simple vocabulary. Practice is the key to acquisition, assimilation, and retention.

If you don't have one yet, make sure to get a paradigm/review chart. Logos sells some. When I was in Greek class, years ago, it was given for free. https://www.logos.com/product/6338/greek-and-hebrew-paradigm-charts

No point getting discouraged: take a deep breath when you get overwhelmed and remind yourself that you are taking on a challenging yet worthwhile qualification. Effort will pay off.

Lew Worthington

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825678#Comment_825678

I'll add one thing. At midterm in our Greek reading (second year) class, one student came to me and complained that the class was moving too fast. I couldn't really slow the course down just for his sake, but I would do whatever I could to assist. Then, at the end of the semester when people were filling out course evaluations, he came to my office and was highly and openly critical at how slow the class moved. Grr.

The take-away is either that my extra tutoring was amazing (probably not), or that it DOES get easier even for the befuddled.

Bruce Dunning

Is it normal to be this stressed out?

Yes. Remember though, that this will soon pass.

Thanks for sharing. I took a minute to pray to offer a prayer for you.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825678#Comment_825678

If you don't have one yet, make sure to get a paradigm/review chart. Logos sells some. When I was in Greek class, years ago, it was given for free. https://www.logos.com/product/6338/greek-and-hebrew-paradigm-charts

I have these and they were somewhat helpful. However, what worked best for me was this chart, probably just because it corresponded with Mounce's text. I didn't get the digital version through Logos, but the hard copy from Amazon.

https://www.logos.com/product/41565/biblical-greek-reference

Everett Headley

2. For vocab. Using the word association technique vs. the brute force repetition technique is the single best tip I could recommend. For each word, create a catchy saying that relates to the Greek word and its meaning. Example: for ἡ ἔρις (a word that means strife, discord; quarrels), my word association was "You err by sowing_____?" You'll be amazed as to how much easier memorization becomes by setting a little word play clue for each word.

3. For paradigms. I created a spreadsheet of sorts that had all of the paradigms set up. I had it to where once you filled in a paradigm, you could click a button to clear your entry and start filling it in again. There is really no easier way to learn paradigms that I have found other than repeatedly filling in the charts over and over. Using a digital method like this also gets you used to typing in Greek.

As one who has been there done that with a few years of Greek and Hebrew, I would concur with Jonathan on these points. Almost a decade later I can still remember some of the jingles I made up to help me remember things like the alphabet and rules. I would encourage you to also do vocab several times a day. While in seminary you knew who was in a language class becuase we always carried around with us our flashcards and would drill while standing in line. a few minutes several times a day adds up to hours.

Don't forget: It is absolutely worth it to master the languages to the best of your ability.

EastTN

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825726#Comment_825726

One thing that helped me was to get the Zondervan Greek vocabulary audio CD - the physical CD - and throw it into the CD player in my car. I just let it run every day during my commute (which was over an hour each way at the time), and over time the words started to stick. Two hours a day of Greek vocabulary was more than my mind could resist.

George Somsel

I teach English, so my knowledge of grammar has been helpful, but the memory work is starting to stress me out severely. I just hit the 3rd Declension endings, and my brain is about to explode.

I've got news for you: I never did memorize the endings for the various declensions, but I recognize them when I see them (sounds like something I've heard before). Reading is the most valuable exercise in learning the language; read early and often. You'll catch on. I found Smyth to be invaluable in solving problems when the grammar seemed inexplicable.

P A

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825735#Comment_825735

I think there are many good answers here.

But I think George has it right. Read Read Read

P A

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825738#Comment_825738

Thank you all for the encouragement and suggestions. I am trying out all of the aids, and I have all of the resources referenced so far, so I will peruse everything and see what might work best for me. You have all been very helpful!

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825739#Comment_825739

In my language learning (formal study of a dozen or so), I found writing things out to be helpful for memorizing. I'd get scrap paper or a whiteboard, write out the whole paradigm for a conjugation or stem, erase it, and write it again. Once I started getting it down, I would mix it up, e.g. write out that stem, then a different one already learned, then back to the new one again.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825749#Comment_825749

In my language learning (formal study of a dozen or so), I found writing things out to be helpful for memorizing. I'd get scrap paper or a whiteboard, write out the whole paradigm for a conjugation or stem, erase it, and write it again.

This helps a lot - getting more than one sense involved, and in more than one way. I had a hand-held whiteboard that I could write on which I could write out the paradigms. I also did my vocabulary, as much as time allowed, in both directions. I found that helped cement things more than just Greek->English.

Donnie

James Hiddle

I am in my first semester of Greek online through Liberty University. My text is Mounce, and I have all of the Zondervan language resources through Logos, including most other available language resources/lexicons. I am in the fourth week and will be finished with Chapter 12 by the end of this week. I teach English, so my knowledge of grammar has been helpful, but the memory work is starting to stress me out severely. I just hit the 3rd Declension endings, and my brain is about to explode.

I have been using the Logos Flash Cards app with Mounce word lists, and that has been helpful, and I have also been using Danny Zacharias' Parse Greek, which has also been very helpful. Does anyone have any tips on ways to more easily/efficiently memorize such concepts? I am doing well so far, but I am starting to get bogged down with so much so fast, and I am afraid that I will have a nervous breakdown by the time I hit verbs. Is it normal to be this stressed out?

Is this a separate course or is this a part of a degree course?

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825804#Comment_825804

Is this a separate course or is this a part of a degree course?

I already have an MAR: Biblical Studies through Liberty University, which is half of their MDiv program. When I graduated with the MAR in 2008, LU didn't offer Greek and Hebrew online, so I couldn't have completed the MDiv unless I wanted to do the English language only track, which I didn't want to do. Now that they offer Greek and Hebrew online, I am going to finish it up and apply to their PhD program.

James Hiddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825832#Comment_825832

Is this a separate course or is this a part of a degree course?

I already have an MAR: Biblical Studies through Liberty University, which is half of their MDiv program. When I graduated with the MAR in 2008, LU didn't offer Greek and Hebrew online, so I couldn't have completed the MDiv unless I wanted to do the English language only track, which I didn't want to do. Now that they offer Greek and Hebrew online, I am going to finish it up and apply to their PhD program.

Gotcha. Good luck with it. Sometime soon(I hope)I plan on learning the Biblical languages.

(‾◡◝)

I am in my first semester of Greek ... and my brain is about to explode.

Does anyone have any tips ... ?

Utilizing the theory of getting your elbow to stop aching by hitting your thumb with a hammer, next semester take Hebrew 101 instead of Greek ... you'll breeze through the remainder of your Greek classes. [;)]

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825928#Comment_825928

I am in my first semester of Greek ... and my brain is about to explode.

Does anyone have any tips ... ?

Utilizing the theory of getting your elbow to stop aching by hitting your thumb with a hammer, next semester take Hebrew 101 instead of Greek ... you'll breeze through the remainder of your Greek classes.

No kidding. I am taking that next summer, but I have already decided that I will not take any other classes with it. I am currently taking the second half of church history with Greek I, and I am signed up to take The History of Baptists (required) with Greek II for the second half of the summer.

On that note, how much harder is Hebrew than Greek?

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825929#Comment_825929

On that note, how much harder is Hebrew than Greek?

IMO, significantly harder. To be fair, I already knew the Greek alphabet when I started Greek. That's a large part of the battle with Hebrew - the letters just don't look like letters. Then add in the right-to-left. Then add in the word-formation techniques and the different categories of grammar and syntax. Also, Greek has a lot of cognates with English, and that makes vocabulary easier. Hebrew has essentially none, so vocabulary is very difficult.

Since I took the class, I've said that second semester Hebrew was the hardest course I took in my MDiv program, and probably harder than all the courses in my Mechanical Engineering program, save the required electrical engineering courses - in which I was lost.

Donnie

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825931#Comment_825931

Well this is all very comforting, lol. It is what it is, but it makes me more positive that not taking other classes at the same time is the correct choice.

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825932#Comment_825932

In all seriousness, you'll find that following along in the Greek while someone else is reading Scriptures in English is one of the best helps available - even when you are first starting out and your vocabulary is very small.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825931#Comment_825931

On that note, how much harder is Hebrew than Greek?

IMO, significantly harder. To be fair, I already knew the Greek alphabet when I started Greek. That's a large part of the battle with Hebrew - the letters just don't look like letters. Then add in the right-to-left. Then add in the word-formation techniques and the different categories of grammar and syntax. Also, Greek has a lot of cognates with English, and that makes vocabulary easier. Hebrew has essentially none, so vocabulary is very difficult.

Since I took the class, I've said that second semester Hebrew was the hardest course I took in my MDiv program, and probably harder than all the courses in my Mechanical Engineering program, save the required electrical engineering courses - in which I was lost.

Donnie

I actually think Hebrew is somewhat easier once you learn the Greek alphabet and the Hebrew alefbet. True, there are not so many cognate words in Hebrew with English or other Indo-european words, but the syntax is fairly simple compared to Greek.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/825965#Comment_825965

For English-only speakers, Hebrew is typically more exotic than Greek.

However, we can't go in telling ourselves it's more difficult. That's just self-defeating. Besides, all mature courses teach Hebrew in a way that accommodates the needs of students.