Over $300 for L7 Features? Really?
Comments
-
fwiw: I find this to be the biggest rip-off I have experienced in years.
No more money from me to Logos.0 -
Now, Richard ... if the DSS interlinear were forced to finish out its pre-pub life, it would be doomed like the English Bibles CP.
By getting you to pay for it, I can enjoy it. Thank you! This is how life is supposed to be.
Actually, as Bob recently noted, most features/improvement's desirability are limited per user. For me, the 2 interlinears and the multiple resource panel. The rest I can't remember. For L6, I don't remember any of those. L5's sense lexicon ... that's still struggling ... I'm sure everyone wanted that one (I did, though I think it remains naive).
I'd suspect they package the feature set to hit multiple groups that don't share interests.
Really, Charles? You couldn't figure out what you were buying before you dazedly pushed the Buy-button? And couldn't struggle with the 10 digits to dial Logos to reverse your mistake?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
I did my purchase by phone, didn't get what was presented to me, at least as I understood it.
Seems many are again confused, have great difficulty with upgrade calculators and Logos support indicates its been difficult for them - so, yes, quite frankly its a pain and a great many , including Logos are having trouble with it.0 -
Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:
I did my purchase by phone, didn't get what was presented to me, at least as I understood it.
Seems many are again confused, have great difficulty with upgrade calculators and Logos support indicates its been difficult for them - so, yes, quite frankly its a pain and a great many , including Logos are having trouble with it.To Denise's point, Charles, why not return it and get a refund? If I order something from Logos that isn't what I anticipated (I think it's happened only once), I phone customer service, return it, and am refunded.
As far as confusion goes, some things could definitely have been presented more clearly, but I didn't have any trouble ordering and getting what I wanted. I ordered online and the order itself was fairly basic. My biggest issue was deciding what to order. Once I decided, it was no trouble and the upgrade installation was seamless.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Richard Lyall said:
I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package.
What obscure interlinears? I've only noticed one that users have pleaded for. But I do agree that if they are not of use to you, don't buy them just to "keep up".
Try "niche" then. My point was that a "feature" upgrade should not have its price inflated by the inclusion of content, especially not niche content such as non-maintstream interlinears which belong in a library or base package. A bit of a marketing fail to my mind.
There should be a FEATURE ONLY upgrade which only has features and the related datasets. I would have bought this had it been offered.
0 -
Richard Lyall said:
Try "niche" then. My point was that a "feature" upgrade should not have its price inflated by the inclusion of content, especially not niche content such as non-maintstream interlinears which belong in a library or base package. A bit of a marketing fail to my mind.
There should be a FEATURE ONLY upgrade which only has features and the related datasets. I would have bought this had it been offered.
As I understand it, some features utilize the reverse interlinears to accomplish what they do.
I imagine that dependency is why the interlinears are bundled with the feature set, instead of in a library.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
0 -
Richard Lyall said:
Try "niche" then. My point was that a "feature" upgrade should not have its price inflated by the inclusion of content, especially not niche content such as non-maintstream interlinears
Unfortunately when I look at Christianity around the world and over the millenia, I see them as very mainstream ... especially the Vulgate - although I would admit that the Septuagint is even more mainstream ... and for many centuries, the Peshitta would be the equal of the Vulgate. Before I became involved in the forums I thought the NRSV, REB and ESV were the primary Protestant versions. I'd never even heard of the HCSB. Questions of cessationism and preterism were not even in my vocabulary. However, the breadth of the Logos community is such that "mainstream" is understood from the perspective of the region and culture from which we come. "Mainstream" in Duluth is not "mainstream" in New Orleans or Seattle . . . so we all accept our share of the "mainstream" packages that don't reflect our "mainstream" ... or we decide that there is so much outside our experience of "mainstream" that we simply don't purchase the package.
Richard Lyall said:There should be a FEATURE ONLY upgrade which only has features and the related datasets.
From my perspective reverse interlinears are useful solely because of the features that they make possible; they are simply a feature dataset in yet another format. That is why they are marketed in the feature package rather than in libraries ... a lesson pounded into my head this last week as I tried to get Spanish reverse interlinears.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Richard Lyall said:
To return to the thread topic, there are a couple of reasons why I haven't bought the Full Feature Upgrade this time round and probably won't:
- For only £15 I get nearly all the new features as part of the Starter Feature Set Upgrade - bargain!
- The feature difference between the Starter and the "Full" is not worth an extra £140 to me
- I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package. It's meant to be a FEATURE upgrade not an obscure interlinear upgrade.
- Some of the features I was really interested in are not included in the misleadingly named "Full" feature upgrade, namely the Bible Browser tool.
- Some of the "Full" upgrade features are of no use to me whatsoever e.g. the Sermon writing tool. I already have a well established process for this and have no need to fix what ain't broke by trying to fit a perfectly good process into someone else's way of working.
I will not define those interlinears as obscure, but certainly not the most useful for the average user. In my case the difference between the Starter Feature Set and the full one is 181$, which is to much for me. In this, I agree with you that for a lot of Logos's users the upgrade is not worthy of the price.
What I really I cannot understand is why we are not allowed to buy some specific datasets we can be interested in apart of the base packages. I am really interested in the Systematic Theology dataset, which does not need any companion file, it is listed as 9.99$, but you cannot buy it. Why? If I am able to buy the resources I want individually (although in base packages have a very good discounted price), why I cannot buy the datasets I am interested in?
0 -
Jesús Polaino said:Richard Lyall said:
To return to the thread topic, there are a couple of reasons why I haven't bought the Full Feature Upgrade this time round and probably won't:
- For only £15 I get nearly all the new features as part of the Starter Feature Set Upgrade - bargain!
- The feature difference between the Starter and the "Full" is not worth an extra £140 to me
- I don't need all those obscure interlinears in the "Full" upgrade, which are only included to push up the price of the package. It's meant to be a FEATURE upgrade not an obscure interlinear upgrade.
- Some of the features I was really interested in are not included in the misleadingly named "Full" feature upgrade, namely the Bible Browser tool.
- Some of the "Full" upgrade features are of no use to me whatsoever e.g. the Sermon writing tool. I already have a well established process for this and have no need to fix what ain't broke by trying to fit a perfectly good process into someone else's way of working.
I will not define those interlinears as obscure, but certainly not the most useful for the average user. In my case the difference between the Starter Feature Set and the full one is 181$, which is to much for me. In this, I agree with you that for a lot of Logos's users the upgrade is not worthy of the price.
What I really I cannot understand is why we are not allowed to buy some specific datasets we can be interested in apart of the base packages. I am really interested in the Systematic Theology dataset, which does not need any companion file, it is listed as 9.99$, but you cannot buy it. Why? If I am able to buy the resources I want individually (although in base packages have a very good discounted price), why I cannot buy the datasets I am interested in?
I agree with you. Logos has so many options now but still insists on bundling. It would be nice if you had the opportunity to buy what you want.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
0 -
Yep, very confusing this go around. Maybe every time-- not sure.
I still advocate for fewer upgrades; altho, now that I, personally, am set with the Now subscription for a year, they can upgrade 12 versions, over the next 12 months, and i SHOULD be upgrade proofed. haha. Actually, I'd still be annoyed, because it is annoying to upgrade constantly. Espsince in my opinion, theres not really been upgrades in 5, 6 or 7. To me, it's basically the same thing. Tweaks, but not upgrades.
I keep hoping you get where and what you need. It's extremely frustrating when you are so frustrated with the software, you really dont care to put the time and energy into learning just what we have. (As you know, until last week, when I feel Logos did right by me, by offering the "recent upgrade discounts", I had no desire to upgrade, sidegrade, downgrade, just out the door-grade. So definitely know where u r at, and why. Since seeing things a little differently, I see that things aren't as "evil" as I thought. But, I'm still keeping my "bat eye"on things. lol).
But, hopefully, you can step back take a deep breath, pray, ask God to get you through the frustrations, and go one step at a time. Watch the freebie videos, and move to the next one. Lots of people here willing to help, too. Reps are good too.Fr. Charles R. Matheny said:I did my purchase by phone, didn't get what was presented to me, at least as I understood it.
Seems many are again confused, have great difficulty with upgrade calculators and Logos support indicates its been difficult for them - so, yes, quite frankly its a pain and a great many , including Logos are having trouble with it.0 -
I'm not 100% but, I'll bet it has to do with coding. Break up even a small part of code on something like this, and everything breaks.
That's a lot of what happened to Vista. They pulled one thing out and messed up a lot more. I didn't mind it, so it didn't bother me; but, overall, people hated it.
That's my guess. Because the datasets are so involved, and I think much of the code is the same from one set to the other, it has to be all or nothing. But, I could be wrong.Jesús Polaino said:I will not define those interlinears as obscure, but certainly not the most useful for the average user. In my case the difference between the Starter Feature Set and the full one is 181$, which is to much for me. In this, I agree with you that for a lot of Logos's users the upgrade is not worthy of the price.
What I really I cannot understand is why we are not allowed to buy some specific datasets we can be interested in apart of the base packages. I am really interested in the Systematic Theology dataset, which does not need any companion file, it is listed as 9.99$, but you cannot buy it. Why? If I am able to buy the resources I want individually (although in base packages have a very good discounted price), why I cannot buy the datasets I am interested in?
0 -
Tony Thomas said:
It would be nice if you had the opportunity to buy what you want.
This would be nice from the customers' perspective, but when you consider the headaches this would create for customer service, the price of those features that I really want would rise—perhaps by quite a large amount.
0 -
Jack Caviness said:Tony Thomas said:
It would be nice if you had the opportunity to buy what you want.
This would be nice from the customers' perspective, but when you consider the headaches this would create for customer service, the price of those features that I really want would rise—perhaps by quite a large amount.
I agree. There is usually a lot more involved than we on the outside looking in can see.
Pastor, Cornerstone Baptist Church, Clinton, SC
0 -
Jack Caviness said:Tony Thomas said:
It would be nice if you had the opportunity to buy what you want.
This would be nice from the customers' perspective, but when you consider the headaches this would create for customer service, the price of those features that I really want would rise—perhaps by quite a large amount.
I understand your point but in some datasets like the mentioned Sytematic Theology where there are not new resources involved I simply cannot understand the logic behind... Furthermore, why there is the price in the web if it is not possible to buy it? It does not make sense to me.
0 -
Jesús Polaino said:
Furthermore, why there is the price in the web if it is not possible to buy it? It does not make sense to me.
The value of the individual datasets is indicated in order to demonstrate the value of the total package.
0 -
I disagree. Logos' software obviously has the ability to deliver and unlock individual features very quickly and easily. The development costs have already been invested. The fact that they choose not to make these features available individually has more to do with marketing. Their goal is to extract as much $$$ from each user as possible. So, in my case, I would have to pay well over $300 to get a feature that has a list price of $15 (although there may be other features I may also benefit from in the bundle).Bill Moore said:Jack Caviness said:Tony Thomas said:It would be nice if you had the opportunity to buy what you want.
This would be nice from the customers' perspective, but when you consider the headaches this would create for customer service, the price of those features that I really want would rise—perhaps by quite a large amount.
I agree. There is usually a lot more involved than we on the outside looking in can see.
While I would be willing to buy features and datasets a la carte, they would prefer that I pony up for a full feature upgrade or, better yet, a monthly subscription. Over a period of 2 years, that would give them $200-350 of income. The subscription model has big numbers attached and I am sure that they are looking at all the zeros. For example, if 10,000 users buy a $99 subscription, that adds almost $1 million of recurring revenue. That is a lot of money to receive without even selling a single resource.
Whether Logos will ever be willing to unbundle features and datasets ((think cable TV here), or reinstitute a month by month subscription option so that you can determine the applicability of specific features and datasets to your workflow, remains to be seen.
It really depends on the percentage of "buy in" they get from users for feature bundles and subscriptions and a determination of how much money they are leaving on the table.
That is just how business works.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
0 -
I love the bible program Logos, but have been unable to study/learn the new features because of my work schedule and other obligations, and by the time i learn another feature, then a more advanced feature comes available, and have to pay out more money to get it. I understand your frustration. I am still debating trying out Logos Now, and since my birthday is next month, and I will have 20 bucks credit to spend, I believe I will take the plunge. I understand their monetary challenges to stay afloat as a business, but upgrading each time is out of my price range. I am glad that have a way to get the new features with the subscription. Thanks for your feedback.
0 -
I think you sum up my personal feelings quite well.
I want to love the software-- particularly how much I've plopped down on it. It's very complicated, and I've needed motivation to learn it. It hasn't been there; but, it's coming. As you say, work and other obligations get in the way.
I think you get until next month to pay for Now monthly, before it leaps to an annual fee; so now would be the good time to try Now. At worst, you're out the $10 at best, you're in love with it and either rent it, or buy it.
My suggestion is, once you have Now, see what new discounts Now brings, and see how it can apply to a full year, or the actual purchase price. You may get a better deal. But, I am suggesting people actually call in, because you might get a better deal talking to someone; they may find other discounts you might be eligible for.
And again, you are spot on about the monetary challenges and upgrading each time being out of people's price range. Sadly, if one skips a generation, they still have to make it up later. But, without the books (been there, done that. NEVER again).
Best wishes.KeepOnSavingMe said:I love the bible program Logos, but have been unable to study/learn the new features because of my work schedule and other obligations, and by the time i learn another feature, then a more advanced feature comes available, and have to pay out more money to get it. I understand your frustration. I am still debating trying out Logos Now, and since my birthday is next month, and I will have 20 bucks credit to spend, I believe I will take the plunge. I understand their monetary challenges to stay afloat as a business, but upgrading each time is out of my price range. I am glad that have a way to get the new features with the subscription. Thanks for your feedback.
0
