Suggestion: LOGOS EASY MODE
Please make a new purchasable LOGOS EASY MODE a sort of Logos for Dummies version soon.
Sorry, I do not care for the nuances and intricacies of original languages (so long as I do not discourage, deter, or mislead anyone by mistake) and just hope and pray when you revamp Logos, you will go simple at last.
I continue to believe that developers and sales people do NOT actually visit simple, everyday, common, church bible studies, sorry.
Comments
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"Enter a passage and hit go".
I think that is easy mode. But what would you like to see specifically?
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
TCBlack said:
But what would you like to see specifically?
In a spirit of friendly collaboration for the greater good, here's an idea from me, a third party:
An easy option to hide-from-view (in the Tools, etc. drop-downs) selected tools, which could nonetheless be run using the the Command Bar, might be helpful. This might also be nice for advanced users who know that certain things aren't ones they want to use.
We know that what's in those drop-downs is variable, because it does vary based on what people have temporary or permanent licenses for.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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This is something that's been suggested before (see this thread, for example). I personally think there's a real need for it. I understand some of the complications, but I still think it could be helpful to provide at least one mode with simpler default behavior. I also recognize that it's already possible for users to extensively tailor the software's behavior to different needs - but the new, relatively unsophisticated user is also the one least likely to be able to do this. A "simple mode" would have been a huge help to me when I first started using Logos. I was almost overwhelmed - and that was multiple generations back, when the software was simpler and the libraries smaller.
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JoshInRI said:
Please make a new purchasable LOGOS EASY MODE a sort of Logos for Dummies version soon.
That'd be great, wouldn't it? There are more changes than I have had time to adjust to, too! Of late I have focused more on using Logos for reading and occasionally using the scripture reference study helps.
So, I think TC has a point--there are some simple ways to engage Logos and ignore most of the rest. Maybe if you just relied an a specific tool or guide that gave you some of the things you like to interact with--(whatever they may be, like...) a list of commentaries, topical reference links, media, etc. And don't worry about the rest, unless you want to take a little of a Saturday afternoon and learn about a new feature with Logos videos or other support resources.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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JoshInRI said:
Please make a new purchasable LOGOS EASY MODE a sort of Logos for Dummies version soon.
Sorry, I do not care for the nuances and intricacies of original languages (so long as I do not discourage, deter, or mislead anyone by mistake) and just hope and pray when you revamp Logos, you will go simple at last.
I continue to believe that developers and sales people do NOT actually visit simple, everyday, common, church bible studies, sorry.
How many times have you made this request in the last year? How many times have I responded to your request? Can we call a truce and put at least six months between your requests? I am in the process of rewriting introductory instructions for new users with a very minimal library and promise to report any issues that arise. And yes, I do find issues - small and resolvable. But I also think it is time for you to actually visit Bible studies and faith formation classes in a variety of traditions unlike your own to be certain that you understand what others consider "simple, everyday, common, church bible studies".
That said, Faithlife is listening as you will note with the Quick-Start layouts of Logos 7 which minimize the upfront setup time that is difficult to grasp initially. And the Bible browser can be used as a replacement for many searches and again requires little time to learn. So let's give some positive feedback on the "Logos made easy" campaign.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Aren't the new Quickstart layouts kind of what you're talking about?
Sharing layouts is still on my list of "must add" features, as is the compromise between projects and layouts which Eli was working on as of 2015. Being able to share a project or a layout with a Bible study group would be helpful, certainly. But telling a new user to open up the Study Bible Template is basically an easy mode. Tell them to use inline search, notes and highlights are already on the screen. Click Guides -> Passage Guide to get more commentaries. I don't see what you still want.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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MJ. Smith said:
That said, Faithlife is listening as you will note with the Quick-Start layouts of Logos 7 which minimize the upfront setup time that is difficult to grasp initially.
[Y] I went through all the Quick Start layouts today and I think they're great, certainly a good start for an Easy Mode option.
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"Easy Mode" was a design trend in Windows apps in the late 90's. Menus were trimmed down and options were hidden unless you turned on 'Extended Menus' or something like that.
Like all the attempts to make things easier (balloon help, tip of the day dialog boxes on startup, etc.) these things faded away because [my interpretation] they hurt more than they helped.
I'd love to make Logos easier to use. And I think we have: https://biblia.com is a pretty obvious Bible UI. https://bible.faithlife.com is a pretty simple Bible and study Bible, and the Faithlife Study Bible mobile app always opens to a Bible and study Bible and hides a lot of complexity.
Doing that for Logos Bible Software itself seems difficult, though, because one person's 'core functionality' is another's 'not what I need.'
As pointed out, Enter Passage, Click Go!, QuickStarts, and even the book excerpts on the Home Page are all attempts to offer 'easy' ways into the software. When I teach people, I suggest always starting with entering a reference and clicking Go!, and then just following the hyperlinks in the Passage Guide. That seems easy to me; I tell those users that they can do tons of Bible study without ever touching the menus, and almost everyone knows how to follow hyperlinks. Isn't that easy?
And then, as the next step in learning the power, I encourage them to right-click.
Then, and only after they're comfortable, do I encourage trying the other Guides, and exploring the menus.
And, of course, I always, always tell people to watch the training videos. But they rarely do. (In fact, few 'it's not easy!' complaints come from people who've watched the videos... it seems people want it to be easy without having to watch a video. I get it -- that's what I wish about Photoshop -- but think it's unrealistic for any really powerful tool.)
Enough defensiveness.... what's your proposal? What's the core minimum that we should expose in an 'Easy Mode'?
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Bob Pritchett said:
Enough defensiveness.... what's your proposal? What's the core minimum that we should expose in an 'Easy Mode'?
- Make "Search" for dummy... kinda like searching visual filter morph, where after you type "@", the pop-out appear, where we choose the next available variables. Now, if this would be available for regular SEARCH... that would be called an EASY mode. As you've mentioned Bob, I've watched plenty of tutorial videos, bought few tutorial videos, but ... searching without memorizing all the rules is a different thing.
- Please make your legitimate/official book-collections, and not rely on people's submissions of Collections. 90% of my collections are submitted by people and they aren't maintained updated with the new resources and whatnot, they have sooo many false-positives.
- Did I mention "Seaching"... people do searching All The Time.
Thank you Bob for taking the time to listen directly to us.
edit: #2 Why OFFICIAL Collections are important for me? Because I have close to 26k resources, and without using Collections, my resources are somewhere in the limbo because they aren't integrated with the Guides. Plus, people's resources are slowly increasing too with the new BPs. So it only make sense if you would make this Easier for us.
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mike said:
Make "Search" for dummy... kinda like searching visual filter morph, where after you type "@", the pop-out appear, where we choose the next available variables. Now, if this would be available for regular SEARCH... that would be called an EASY mode. As you've mentioned Bob, I've watched plenty of tutorial videos, bought few tutorial videos, but ... searching without memorizing all the rules is a different thing.
The Bible Browser is a step in providing this especially if they add more facets.
mike said:Please make your legitimate/official book-collections, and not rely on people's submissions of Collections. 90% of my collections are submitted by people and they aren't maintained updated with the new resources and whatnot, they have sooo many false-positives.
I strongly concur - or at least as an alternative make more metadata available so collections could more easily be simply rule driven.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:mike said:
Please make your legitimate/official book-collections, and not rely on people's submissions of Collections. 90% of my collections are submitted by people and they aren't maintained updated with the new resources and whatnot, they have sooo many false-positives.
I strongly concur - or at least as an alternative make more metadata available so collections could more easily be simply rule driven.
concur
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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JoshInRI said:
Please make a new purchasable LOGOS EASY MODE a sort of Logos for Dummies version soon.
Sorry, I do not care for the nuances and intricacies of original languages (so long as I do not discourage, deter, or mislead anyone by mistake) and just hope and pray when you revamp Logos, you will go simple at last.
I continue to believe that developers and sales people do NOT actually visit simple, everyday, common, church bible studies, sorry.
What might be helpful is to spend some time really thinking about what it is you are wanting to accomplish and yet are struggling to do so rather than just a generic "make it easy" statement. It all comes down to articulating exactly what it is you are wanting to find with Logos. Spend some time thinking about the exact results you are hoping to find, and not so much the how to get it (at this point).
For example, when you are at the "simple, everyday, common, church bible studies", tell us exactly what it is you are trying to accomplish that you are having trouble doing. Detailed step by step examples would be the most helpful. I assume you are at a Bible study with some kind of device (Phone? tablet? Full computer?) and during the study want to use logos to find some kind of related information to the study (Different Bible versions? commentary articles? Related verses? Sermons? background info? Everything on a topic?) What is it you are having trouble doing?
Think about things like: "When the speaker gives a verse, I want to do X or find X information about something that are in X kinds of resources very quickly". Is it only that you don't want to have to come up with complex search syntaxes during a study? Do you find you are looking for the same type of info over and over so that some kind of standard pre-built or custom searches that can be "fired" with a single click on a key word would accomplish what you are looking for? Keep in mind, the more detailed extensive info you want to find, the more complexity is required to do so. Perhaps if you understand what it is you are really trying to do, there may be better existing ways to accomplish it or at least you will have given clear, real world examples of issues the developers can then better consider.
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[Y]
Philippians 2:3Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves.
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MJ. Smith said:
The Bible Browser is a step in providing this especially if they add more facets.
Unfortunately, the lag in Bible Browser at present makes it painful to use. Worse, when I first tried to use it, it came up with 2-3 visual filters enabled (not by any explicit action of mine); and it would hang for seconds at a time - to the point where Windows put the "(not responding)" message in the window's title bar. The forums have trained me well enough to look first at VFs in such situations, and that fixed that problem. But it is still so slow to respond that I can't get into any kind of fluid use that lets me really discover what it's good at.
Donnie
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