What strategies do you use for note-taking whilst reading?
I've just been looking over the list of books I've read in 2016, and realised that however helpful I found them whilst reading, I now have very little idea what they say 
. (By nature, I'm generally very good at understanding what I'm reading, but very poor at retaining the information.)
So, I need to work harder at retaining information that I'm reading, and note-taking would seem an obvious way. But how to do that?
I need a strategy that will work on Kindle, Logos and in print, and I need to be able to do this on a mobile device (iPhone or Kindle Fire), and on my PC. I don't mind paying for software if I need to. I'd prefer to use Logos if possible, but if there are better options, that's fine too.
But I'm not primarily interested in the tech — I'm more interested in what you actually do for a typical book, and whether you feel that helps you to retain what you've read.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Due to post-doc mental indigestion and fears of inadvertent plagiarism, I try to be fairly meticulous in my note taking.
I mostly use Nota Bene as an academic word processor. In its bibilographic database, I enter each book I read. I can then link to it a note file, where I primarily collect quotes with page numbers and also include my own thoughts. This is searchable (kind of, but not quite like Google) within the program. Lately I've been assigning my own internal hashtags to make searching even easier, like #filioque or #originalsin or what have you.
That I run on my tablet and laptop. I do a lot of reading on my phone (mostly Logos, a very little bit of Kindle). To note quotes on that, I just make highlights then transfer them to Nota Bene when I get some time on the desktop. Notes might be kept in other applications--previously EverNote, now OneNote--if need be, but eventually everything goes into Nota Bene. (You might be able to work out a similar system with a different program.)
Of late I have started using Clippings in Logos. I find that most useful for topical studies where I'm working through multiple resources to research a particular detail.
Beyond that, I keep a log of every academic book I read.
Does it help me retain what I've read? I'm not sure. Certainly not as well as I'd like to, but I don't know how much worse I'd be if I didn't have system like this, which I've used for about a decade. It does, however, help me find stuff when a thought drifts by, "Oh yeah, I read something about that a while back that would really be helpful here..."
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Mark Barnes said:
(By nature, I'm generally very good at understanding what I'm reading, but very poor at retaining the information
I've been struggling with the same issue in my life and my solution was this:
First, do a lot of highlighting as I read (in Logos). Assign meanings to different highlights. As a preacher, I'm especially interested in good illustrations/analogies and applications—so those things have special highlight colors all their own (orange and red).
Secondly, I make it a habit to search highlighting (of various types) during my sermon prep to find things that I have read and highlighted. I have admitted to myself that I will never retain all the information that I want to when I read a book—so I just make a habit to search for it later. Highlighting helps a lot here.
Third, for articles and books that I read outside Logos, I take notes (or copy and paste) into a note app (any will do, I use Apple's Notes) and transfer to a Logos note later. Set time aside daily/weekly to do filing operations.
Key thoughts:
(1) I can't retain what I want to from what I read, so it has to get into Logos (via highlighting or notes) so that it can be found later.
(2) I have to be in the habit of searching what I read each week during sermon prep.
Now I can read and enjoy reading and not worry so much about retaining information.
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I read about a famous pop musician who was part of a team that composed music for their group. They never wrote anything down they composed. When asked how they would remember the music he simply said, that which is worth remembering we don't forget and that which is not worth remembering we forget. I think there is some truth to that. I have met some brilliant bible teachers who have forgotten more then we all knew collectively. Instead of making notes-because I hate to write- I use highlighters. I highlight what I want to remember. I will put each book I read under a separate note file so it doesn't go into the dark hole of one palette style and get lost. What I love about Logos is that when I am finished with the book, I can quickly go back and see what I want to remember and review it as often as I want without having to re-read the whole book. A few good highlights is enough to jog my memory just as one might make a few good notes for a sermon without having to write a manuscript- did I mention I hate writing? I think memory is a cumulative thing and it is amazing in the right situation how something I had thought I forgot pops out. Good luck with it Mark.
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Hi Mark;
I'm definitely no authority on this, so I won't post my method(s), as I suffer from the same human anomaly as you do concerning this. [:)]
I just wanted to say "Hi", and thanks for posting the question.
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Mark Barnes said:
I need to work harder at retaining information that I'm reading, and note-taking would seem an obvious way. But how to do that?
I need a strategy that will work on Kindle, Logos and in print, and I need to be able to do this on a mobile device (iPhone or Kindle Fire), and on my PC.
I took this class for this very reason and found it very helpful and fruitful in my studies...
https://www.udemy.com/reading-for-information-extraction-get-more-out-of-books/
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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Hi Mark,
I have the same issue re: retention of material WITHIN Logos. I still haven't found a good, clean and effective method for helping me to retain the books that I have read. However, outside of Logos, in nearly all other parts of my life, I use mindmaps for anything I want to retain. The technique is so awesome because of its simplicity and versatility. If you're not familiar with the technique, you basically create a central 'node' and then you create branches off of that node and organize it any way that you want. For example, I could take a book title and make it my central node and then have a branch for the main themes of the book and/or create other branches for each chapter if I so chose. Mindmapping can be done manually but there are some great apps out there that I won't name in the forum. Again, my only challenge with Logos is that I have to copy/paste or write out all my notes in a separate mindmapping app rather than having it all contained in one Logos-type file. Not a major hassle but that's why you occasionally see a few suggestions for mindmap extensions in the forums.
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It seems that many of us are experiencing the same thing as you Mark. I primarily just use highlighting which I can search if I want to or I can simply review the highlights at a subsequent time as a summary.
I look forward to seeing if others responding to this thread are doing something better.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Adapting Mortimer Adler's excellent "How to Read a Book," I write a brief summary at the top of each chapter and (when I am finished), a summary of the book with some reflections about its possible use cases. In Logos, I make notes on the Title page for the bookwide stuff. Then, when I consult a book, I can open the front cover, find out the big picture and then find the content of each chapter that I need.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Mark Barnes said:
I'm more interested in what you actually do for a typical book, and whether you feel that helps you to retain what you've read.
Since my undergraduate days (many moons ago), I have always used highlighters. I highlight main points and things that stick out to me. This helps me to slow down a bit while reading (so I retain more). It also provides me with a means to skim the book and remember the highlights. Literally. [:)]
I use this in Logos, Kindle & print.
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Hmm, I agree that highlighters work wonderfully and I've used them for decades myself. However, the problem with highlighting and even taking notes in the margins of a page is that once you finish the book, everything you highlighted is basically now buried. Think about it this way, you finish a good book with lots of great points that you highlighted, close the book and now its a few months later. Can you remember those points by just looking at the book? No, you would have to flip through the pages to find your highlights and refresh your memory on the points.
Another trick within Logos that I have been playing with is to just create a folder for a book I read and then as many sub-folders as I need to help me remember my key points. I'm still an advocate of Mind mapping but at least by using the folder structure, I can look into my favorites, see a title and see all the points I worked so hard to remember.
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Dennis Davis said:
Can you remember those points by just looking at the book? No, you would have to flip through the pages to find your highlights and refresh your memory on the points.
In a print book, yep. Logos does have a "quotes view." If you use "resource specific" note documents, they are all in one place.
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Dr. Claude Olney was a Professor at the Arizona State business school who put a course together on how to study. I took business law from him.
He said that people highlight what they think is important. Instead, he said that people should highlight what they don't understand.
Now, his approach is probably geared towards studying for a test. But the idea of highlighting the unique is probably worth considering.
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Dennis Davis said:
Hmm, I agree that highlighters work wonderfully and I've used them for decades myself. However, the problem with highlighting and even taking notes in the margins of a page is that once you finish the book, everything you highlighted is basically now buried. Think about it this way, you finish a good book with lots of great points that you highlighted, close the book and now its a few months later. Can you remember those points by just looking at the book? No, you would have to flip through the pages to find your highlights and refresh your memory on the points.
I take notes for a book to a note file devoted to that book by default. When I highlight I treat it like a clipping. I will highlight the text, create a note, then copy the highlighted text to the note in its entirety. That way, my notes files are readable.
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I have finally found a method that works pretty well for me. I use a combination of Kindle and Evernote.
I generally will read books I care about on my Kindle Paperwhite. I will highlight each chapter number and title, and then whatever is significant in the chapter, AS WELL AS sentences that make the point of the chapter (not always the same thing). At the end of the chapter, I will make a "note" at the last paragraph, a sentence or two summarizing the chapter. I've already got the most valuable stuff highlighted.
If I've bought the book from Amazon, these highlights and notes are imported to the cloud in a nice, well ordered document. When I finish the book, I simply copy and paste that complete document into Evernote, with the title of the book as the title of the note. A complete summary of the book, as well as everything I found useful in the book is always there for me to revisit or refresh my memory about it, on any device I'm using. It is also completely searchable, based on the title, any tags I might choose to attach to the book, as well as any words or phrases in any of the notes.
If I didn't buy the book on Amazon, I'll still read it and highlight it the same way. The Kindle still keeps all your highlights and notes in a document on the Kindle, but it is not formatted very well at all, so I have to do some editing (mainly deleting the time and date of each note/highlight) when I'm done, before pasting into Evernote. It isn't nearly as slick, but the end result is the same, with a bit more work.
The reading process is much slower this way than just reading through the book, but it is faster than when I've tried to take notes as I read.
I also use Evernote for all my sermon illustrations, any quotes I like, pictures and anything else I think might be useful in a sermon. So when I prepare my sermons, I search Evernote for key words related to each thing I want to illustrate, and get examples from my illustrations, lists of quotes, AND every book I have read since using this method.
I've been amazed at how useful this has been. I use far more sermon illustrations from my reading now, that I never even thought of or considered in the past. I'm also more often impacted by my reading. Last week, I read through my highlights/notes on an obscure book I read a long time ago. I had remembered the jist of the book when I saw the notes, but was impacted strongly by the key points of each chapter. It probably made a more significant impact on me reading through the notes than when I actually read the book.
There would be other options, besides Evernote, to copy your info into. However, it works really well for me, because the search feature is SO good, and when coupled with all my illustrations and quotes I've collected over time, it is amazingly helpful for sermon prep. Oh, and I use a separate Evernote account for this information (as well as all my previous sermon notes). I use another Evernote account for more general stuff, including ministry and life (blog topics that come to me when I'm out and about, sermon topics that come to me, ministry ideas, stuff like that, as well as movies I hear about that I might like to see, or restaurants I hear about, and stuff like that). All that to say, I use a separate account for information directly relating to sermon prep, and sermon notes.
What I do takes a bit of commitment to just "try it out," but I took the time to try it, and found it the best method I have used by a lot.
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My method may not be that sophisticated but it's worked for me. Highlight at your own discretion whatever is important (e.g. Key words, concepts, catch phrases, etc.); but most important write out, in your own words, a brief summary of each section or chapter making sure you understand the material. That way, when you read, you'll be able to remember and know the material. Logos has made this very easy for me by allowing me to attach a note file at the beginning of each section of a book, that way I can review and remember without having to re-read the whole thing (unless otherwise deemed necessary).
Anymore ideas, keep sharing guys. Great stuff so far!
DAL
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I agree James a good course and particularly useful because it discusses note taking and highlighting strategies within Logos Bible Software as well as other application.
James Taylor said:Mark Barnes said:I need to work harder at retaining information that I'm reading, and note-taking would seem an obvious way. But how to do that?
I need a strategy that will work on Kindle, Logos and in print, and I need to be able to do this on a mobile device (iPhone or Kindle Fire), and on my PC.
I took this class for this very reason and found it very helpful and fruitful in my studies...
https://www.udemy.com/reading-for-information-extraction-get-more-out-of-books/
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Justin Gatlin said:
Adapting Mortimer Adler's excellent "How to Read a Book," I write a brief summary at the top of each chapter and (when I am finished), a summary of the book with some reflections about its possible use cases. In Logos, I make notes on the Title page for the bookwide stuff. Then, when I consult a book, I can open the front cover, find out the big picture and then find the content of each chapter that I need.
While preparing a Sunday School class on how to study the Bible, I audited several online hermeneutics courses. More that one suggested reading "How to Read a Book". Based on their recommendations, I read it. I spent an entire session on this book. I wish that I had come across it about 30 years earlier.
However, some of the ideas have to be updated for our current reading culture. For instance, Adler insists that you spend a fair amount of time assessing the book before you read just to decide whether you really want to read it. He said that only 10% of books are well written (that's from my memory). If an assessment tells you that it's not one of the good ones, then, if you have alternatives, you might bypass this one.
As an aside, while discussing this point with colleagues, we have concluded that the percentage of "good" books is probably lower now. Quality has suffered due to the ease of publishing.
His idea of assessment included reading the dust covers. That's one area where we have to adjust the procedure. Most e-books don't come with dust covers!
He also said to read the preface, the forward, the TOC, browser the index, and then peruse the opening and closing of each chapter.Even if you know you are going to read the book, this period of assessment will improve your comprehension. His thinking is that if you know where an author is headed, then you will pick up the line of reasoning better and be able to assess it as you do your normal reading.
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Mark Ward has some excellent highlighting tips here:
https://blog.logos.com/2016/06/highlight-book-like-bible-nerd/#more-72474
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Just want to echo that I'm grateful this thread was started!! I've got no answers but I'm taking notes on everything being shared!! Especially looking at starting school up again, this is very timely.
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Thanks for all the responses, guys. I appreciate it.
I haven't yet had chance to read them all carefully and follow up the links, but I'll do that today. I particularly appreciate the Udemy course link — I looked there prior to posting, but didn't find anything.
For myself, the most helpful thing I found before posting was this: https://www.farnamstreetblog.com/how-to-read-a-book/, which is based heavily on Adler's work, but is relatively short and sweet, and obviously more up-to-date.
In the meantime, if anyone stumbles on this thread, the more ideas the merrier!
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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For me, it is important to find al the highlights and notes in a single place ... i.e. Logos
External notes are done in Word (or moved to Word) so that I can turn them into a personal book.
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Richard Villanueva said:
Just want to echo that I'm grateful this thread was started!! I've got no answers but I'm taking notes on everything being shared!!
Agreed
Maybe FL will see some areas where they can add for Logos 8 [;)]Pastor Glenn Crouch
St Paul's Lutheran Church
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alabama24 said:
Logos does have a "quotes view." If you use "resource specific" note documents, they are all in one place.
Wow! How did I miss this? Is there a way to search all the highlighting in a particular book?
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Mike Tourangeau said:
Is there a way to search all the highlighting in a particular book?
You would conduct a search for all highlights in a resource, like this:
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I have found 'clippings' very beneficial.
If I am preaching out of James 2, I'll read through various commentaries and post all helpful information to a 'clippings' titled James 2. Then when I go to prepare a message I can review all my clippings.
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I'm sure my system will evolve, but the time being I'm going with what I consider to be the best from all the suggestions:
- For Logos resources, a resource-specific highlighting file with:
- Points of disagreement
- Important/interesting sections
- Summaries
- Supporting arguments
- Quotable quotes
- For all resources, a separate resource-specific notes file with a note attached to each chapter heading, which contains a summary of that chapter. I'll also attach the notes to relevant Bible passages, if the note would shed light on that passage.
The theory is that the notes and the highlighting will help me to find things later, whilst the discipline of typing the notes will help me to remember things. We'll see!
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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I don't practice this method (because I am too lazy) but here is what I believe is the best method for retaining what you read.
1) After reading a section/chapter, summarize what you read in your own words on a piece of paper with a pencil.
2) Using dictation software (my favorite is Dragon Professional Individual, which will probably go on sale around Black Friday) speak my notes into the computer.
Why not type the notes into the computer? Because you involve more of the senses: you are forming words with your mouth instead of pressing buttons, and hearing them as well. And, since dictation software isn't 100% accurate, you will be looking carefully at your notes to find all the places "Jesus" was interpreted as "cheeses" (an early problem with dictation software).
Anyway, that's my two cents.
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Mark Barnes said:
I'm sure my system will evolve, but the time being I'm going with what I consider to be the best from all the suggestions:
1 For Logos resources, a resource-specific highlighting file . . .
2 For all resources, a separate resource-specific notes file . . .
Mark,
I would have liked to separate my notes from my highlights, but I didn't find an easy way to "toggle" between them on my iPad. Would you use this method on a mobile device?
Also, while we're at it, is there some distinction between "Logos resources" and "all resources"?
David
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David A Egolf said:
I would have liked to separate my notes from my highlights, but I didn't find an easy way to "toggle" between them on my iPad. Would you use this method on a mobile device?
That's a good question.
At the moment, I'm focusing on retaining what I've read. That means I'm planning to write one set of notes per chapter. I'm not intending to attach notes to individual words or paragraphs. That means I shouldn't need to do too much toggling.
The two most articles/videos I've viewed both said that if you're trying to retain information, then you should go into "work mode". That is, lounging on a chair isn't a great way to study (although it can be a great way to read for pleasure). That struck a chord, so I intend to do my serious reading at a desk, and therefore can use Logos on my PC.
If that isn't practical (e.g. I have some down-time that I want to make good use of), I'll probably use another app to take notes, and then transfer them to Logos once I'm done. I think it will be easier to task switch to the other app, than keep switching between a Logos resource and a Logos notes document on my iPhone.
David A Egolf said:Also, while we're at it, is there some distinction between "Logos resources" and "all resources"?
By "all resources", I mean I'm also intending to use Logos to store my notes on print books and Kindle books.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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This thread has been extremely helpful! Thank you for all the helpful suggestions.
For my Bible study I have found it easier to create a note file for a chapter. I will then copy-and-paste from any of my resources into that particular file. If create a note file for a verse or section of verses, I do the same cut-and-paste. I create a folder in Favorites according to the name of the Biblical book (this helps me keep things visually organized). Then when I read and come across a note indicator, all the resource notes and any personal notes are in one place.
This has certainly got me thinking about notes, clippings and highlighting when it comes to general reading. Again, lots of great input!
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Thanks everyone for all of your comments. Some great study techniques were suggested. A lot of the suggestions though related to finding information that you have read rather than remembering the details. For me to remember those things I need to differentiate between what I want to be able to locate later and what I want to remember. So with that in mind I need a separate highlighting system for each. For the things I want to remember I also need a system of review. If I was taking a course and facing an exam I wouldn't consider going into the exam without reviewing what I had studied. I have found that if I do not review new material I tend to forget it. I even forget where I read it sometimes.
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Thank you guys for your comments. I have not use the sermon editor yet. But is it possible to use sermon editor for note-taking?
Am I thinking outside of the box or thats just an unworkable solution?
p.s. I am a bit disappointed that Logos 7 did not address the note-taking aspect of Logos.
PCA Church
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EX said:
Thank you guys for your comments. I have not use the sermon editor yet. But is it possible to use sermon editor for note-taking?
No, that wouldn't be a good idea
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Michael Kinch said:
Thanks everyone for all of your comments. Some great study techniques were suggested. A lot of the suggestions though related to finding information that you have read rather than remembering the details. For me to remember those things I need to differentiate between what I want to be able to locate later and what I want to remember. So with that in mind I need a separate highlighting system for each. For the things I want to remember I also need a system of review. If I was taking a course and facing an exam I wouldn't consider going into the exam without reviewing what I had studied. I have found that if I do not review new material I tend to forget it. I even forget where I read it sometimes.
Any thread which discusses organizing information in Logos should give an honorable mention to Favorites. My research and class organization starts here. It allows me to collect resources of interest here for particular topics or just reading lists. One can store resources, bookmarked resources, notes files, layouts, searches, and other things.
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Mark Barnes said:
At the moment, I'm focusing on retaining what I've read. That means I'm planning to write one set of notes per chapter.
[Y]
I think this is an important key. If we can't go back and make some notes about what we have just read then we probably haven't understood it and therefore have no hope of retaining it.
Mark Barnes said:The two most articles/videos I've viewed both said that if you're trying to retain information, then you should go into "work mode". That is, lounging on a chair isn't a great way to study (although it can be a great way to read for pleasure). That struck a chord, so I intend to do my series reading at a desk, and therefore can use Logos on my PC.
"Posture" is also an important key that sets the tone for what you are doing.
Some good points Mark which I believe (if I retained the informaiton correctly) Danny Zacharias brings out in his Udemy Course
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Mark, and any other pastors/preachers who shared that they use or will use Logos to highlight and make notes:
Assuming you keep some type of files for illustrations, do you keep your illustrations in your Logos program (presumably in Notes) as well as highlights and notes for books? I haven't looked closely at the "Notes" capability for Logos, so I don't even know if that is possible.
I've become pretty good at collecting illustrations and interesting stuff that might be useful in sermons, as I walk around living life. However, accessing that information each week has been a weakness. I can always come up with something, but it was pretty common for me to come across one (or many) illustrations, and think, "Dang, that would have been perfect for my sermon two weeks ago..."
Before keeping my illustrations AND reading highlights and notes in the same place, I was pretty bad at drawing illustrations at what I have read. I'm assuming others either have better recall of what they read than I do, or they have better systems. I've always been impressed by preachers pulling support or illustrations from a variety of authors.
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Michael Kinch said:
A lot of the suggestions though related to finding information that you have read rather than remembering the details. For me to remember those things I need to differentiate between what I want to be able to locate later and what I want to remember. So with that in mind I need a separate highlighting system for each.
Yeah, when I started "electronically" highlighting my reading material, my retention seemed to actually get worse. It's sort of the double-whammy, as highlighting and taking notes obviously slows me down significantly. Slower, but I don't remember as much. Not a great combo.
I've begun going back and reading my notes and highlights when I'm done with the book. I take my time, and think them through as I read them. This really works for me, though it increases the time by another factor. It does seem to give me much better retention than I used to have when I just read books. The biggest problem happens when the book is particularly rich, and I highlighted a huge amount of the book. Almost like having to re-read the whole book again.
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While I am reading, I rarely do more with notes or markup than the electronic equivalent of a check mark for "worth noting" and a question mark for "I'm not convinced" or "you idgit". I go back and add notes after I've finished reading the chapter or other logical segment.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
While I am reading, I rarely do more with notes or markup than the electronic equivalent of a check mark for "worth noting" and a question mark for "I'm not convinced" or "you idgit". I go back and add notes after I've finished reading the chapter or other logical segment.
Hmmmm. I'm going to give that some thought. One of the things I don't like about highlighting or note-taking is the disruption of flow-of-thought.
Not sure if my Kindle will allow flagging something like that or not.
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I'm grateful for this thread! I've felt for a long time that I don't remember what I read and that I could make better use of Logos to help me.
I've settled on this highlighting palette, which is set to save in Resource-specific note files. It's obviously influenced by some of the ideas referenced in this thread, but slightly adapted to my needs and preferences.
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What an incredibly helpful thread this has been. Thank you everyone! Currently I'm going to do a bit more experimentation to see what might work best for me.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Hi Mark, God bless:
I will share with you another angle to this for your consideration.
I read long time ago, about a student that was in the habit of making a mind map marking important information and its location on every assigned chapter from the textbooks in college.
One of the most feared courses at the end had an open text exam. He could not believe it, it was so easy to answer all the questions because he had made the mind maps at the end of each chapter.
The problem in our days of info overload is not memory, but quick access and retrieval system.
I have been wanting to combine the above mind map technique with the ability to reference to the exact location to the text you want to show L7, and also in there the Zettelkasten technique.
So in theory, one could have a mind map that has the important key concepts, with a list of urls directly to the relevant info in L7 resources, and zettlekasten type numbered notes in Nota Bene to go into details.
Some helpful info:
https://www.novamind.com/mindmapping-software/note-taking/
https://blog.logos.com/2016/05/create-links-specific-logos-resources/
http://zettelkasten.de/posts/zettelkasten-improves-thinking-writing/
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/112948/790220.aspx#790220
Now for a fictitious example: see the diagram below, and imagine that hyperlinks to words are added, so you are taken to a mind map that has the urls of the info in the L7 resources, pdf resources, web pages, etc.
After working with the system, you could end up with a very easy to navigate visual index that would allow you to locate important info effectively.
So in the above diagram a hyperlink in "Our mission is to make disciples for Jesus Christ", can take you to a mind map that has your pdf documents of the mission statement, urls to systematic theologies in L7, links to the ministry pages, Zettelkasten numbered notes in NB, etc.
Same with worship, prayer, mentoring, nurture, etc.
I hope you see the possibilities, and I hope this is of use to you.
Blessings.
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Hello Mark:
FINALLY a subject I can help with. [:D] This kind of topic gets me fired up and excited to talk about.
I personally have much of the same problem. Even more than that, I teach high school English and History so I am always trying to give my students tools for retaining information. Let me share with you a little bit of what I've learned through the years.
1) First, I HIGHLY recommend reading the book How We Learn by Benedict Carey. https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Learn-Surprising-Happens/dp/0812984293.It is an amazing resource and is geared specifically towards memory retention.
Also, as a teacher, I recommend The Way They Learn by Cynthia Tobias https://www.amazon.com/They-Learn-Cynthia-Ulrich-Tobias/dp/1561794147 which is a fantastic book that explains not only the "Four Learning Sensory Styles," i.e. V.A.R.K. , and the "Four Learning Processing Styles" i.e. C.A.R.S., (see http://sourcesofinsight.com/concrete-abstract-random-and-sequential/) but also discusses mastery learning over spiral (if I remember correctly, specifically geared towards math but it's been a while). The majority of schools teach mastery (it's easier to teach) but most boys are spiral learners and a fair amount of girls are as well. This is important to know about and may help you understand why you have a hard time retaining information. Now, I think you said you teach, and while the book is geared towards teaching children, I can only tell you that when we grow up, we still learn the way way we did as children, so I am confident you will see yourself in much of the book,
2) Someone referenced mind-mapping. I personally could never use it (you'll see why below), but I do use mind-mapping as a tool for the abstract learners in my High School Language Arts class, but I couldn't see how you could do that on a mobile device.
3) Many people reference high-lighting. I have read countless books on teaching, and did you know that high-lighting, although many people employ it, is considered highly ineffective and ranks as the WORST method for memorization. Here's a blurb about it with a link to a psychology report on the very issue.. http://www.studyright.net/blog/highlighting-a-textbook-taking-notes/ Now, don't get me wrong. I do highlight, especially in Logos, but that is more so I can find the information later and have it sorted, NOT so I retain information.
4) Someone else referenced Mortimer's How to Read a Book, and that they write a summary. That indeed does help somewhat, but it really is pretty limited because it's a summary of the book, not a summary of what YOU LEARNED. (By the way, I make all my high school students read that book, at least portions of it).
So, what works ?
Well, here's the thing Mark, I know what works for me because I know (based on the two books above and other resources through the years) that I am a "Read/write, concrete sequential, spiral learner." That means that for me, the best way to retain information is to read it, write a response (which for me, as an inductive Bible teacher I use a question and answer system where I question the text and then write the answer WITH PEN AND PAPER, which helps even more than typing), and then outline what I learned (that's the sequential part of the concrete sequential learning). The spiral learner in me (which is counter to the sequential but I am who I am) means I have to move on to a new (small) concept, but review what I learned in the past on a regular basis.
My recommendation is LEARN WHAT KIND OF LEARNER YOU ARE... and then that helps narrow down what tends to work for that kind of learner. I often compare this to language. If I say "I love you" in English...it's "I love you." If I say it in Spanish, it's "Te amo," and if I say it in French, it's "je t'aime." In all three instances I am saying the same thing but using a different language. Well, discovering what kind of learner you are allows you to discover YOUR language for learning and retention. As you already read, my language for learning and retention is "Read/write concrete sequential, spiral." You need to discover your language so that the information you are reading makes sense to you in YOUR language, whereas that same information for me is read in a different language with the same goal in mind.
Btw...I'm currently in college for a degree in Christian Education, so thanks for letting me participate in a subject near and dear to my heart!
Let me know if I can guide you to any resources.
P.S. Edited to add: If you read all the posts above, everyone references what works for them, and all of those deal with either V.A.R.K. (visual, auditory, read/write, kinesthetic) and C.A.R.S. (Concrete sequential, Abstract random, concrete Random, abstract Sequential). The post above me discusses mind-mapping in detail, but as I mentioned above, that would never work for me because I am a concrete sequential learner. Since your question is about how to take notes while reading so that you can retain information and then store that information in Logos, discover what kind of learner you are and then choose what works from there FOR YOU. We are, truly, each uniquely made, and how we learn is unique to each of us. If there's anything I've learned from teaching it is that what works for one student confuses another. Find what works for you, and go with it!!!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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God bless:
Hi Cynthia, I know you did not write for me, but I find your post interesting, so I will share some personal experiences.
Decades ago I read a book on learning styles, basically they said there were two rough ones: sequential, and submerge first type.
Sequential is what you find in regular school (at least in my times), where you learned algebra before calc, etc.
I was really impressed with the submerge system: you read wide and deep, to get an idea what the whole subject entails, then you take it from there.
I started doing this submerge in the subject first method, and I really saw my learning take off.
What I do is that I start looking for articles, notes, etc. that outline key aspects of the topic. Little by little I notice key words / concepts that I start putting in a blank paper (or computer page). As I start to see what the key thrusts are, I also start noticing the relationship among them, etc.
Eventually I am able to synthetize the subject giving it some coherent order, based on the importance of key variables that have effect on certain results.
Being a non-expert in many subjects that I explore because they interest me, I have been able to put together key factors in such a way that even "experts" get to like (they may not agree with some inferences and conclusions), but find the model helpful.
Model making is an important tool to aid in memorization and study, and many great sequential students, many times have large undetected logical fallacies, due to not having worked a holistic model taking into consideration the whole corpus.
To get a better idea of what I am talking about:
http://our-hope.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Method2.pdf
Note especially the following diagram from the article:
I hope this positively adds to the conversation, and thanks for the links and reference books that you provided.
Blessings.
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Hello Hamilton:
Thanks for your response. Like you I find this conversation interesting, and am always willing to hear other approaches and thoughts concerning learning and education.
I didn't read the article word for word, but I did skim it to get the gist. If I am understanding correctly, the article was written to explain "the process of building our “model” or world view which we shall call systematic theology." He then discusses concerns of "presuppositions, creativity, and stratification involved in the model approach to theology."
If I am understanding your point regarding a sequential learner, as well as the chart above, you are stating that many times a sequential learner has a tendency to kind of box themselves in and has "large undetected logical fallacies, due to not having worked a holistic model taking into consideration the whole corpus." My question simply is this...couldn't that be said true of any learning style, especially since the author, under presuppositions, states that "complete objectivity is a myth."
While I see some parallelism here, I am keeping in mind that the article you mentioned is discussing the development of a theological system and not so much an individual learning style. The learning style is the methodology a learner would use to gather (and retain) the information to develop the theological system. I don't see them as two sides to the same coin.
Like you, I hope this positively adds to the conversation. I hope to go back over the article and read it thoroughly. Thanks for sharing it!
Blessings in Him!
Edited to add: You know, your "sequential versus submerge" got me again going back to languages. Some people do well with a sequential learning of the language and others do better with submerge (kind of like how Rosetta Stone says they teach language.) Do you know that I took four years of Spanish in school? As a sequential learner it worked wonderful for me. I knew WHY and WHEN and WHERE we used certain words (Remember, the inductive student in me learns by asking the text questions and then searching for the answer). Anyway, we learned a word and then learned how to conjugate the word and then how it would be used in a sentence, etc., etc. My son took Rosetta Stone Spanish. It uses the submerge method. The entire time I was lost. There was no answer to my WHY'S or WHEN's or WHERE'S. WHY do we say it in this sentence like this but in another sentence like this. WHEN do we use it and not use it, WHERE is it appropriate to drop and ending, etc., etc. It drove me NUTS. That's not to say that there is ANYTHING wrong at all with submerge first learning, as it clearly works for you but wouldn't work for me. One is not better than the other. Here, I would say they ARE two sides of the same coin.
And THAT'S my point. When we discover our learning style, we learn WHAT works and doesn't work for us, and why.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
3) Many people reference high-lighting. I have read countless books on teaching, and did you know that high-lighting, although many people employ it, is considered highly ineffective and ranks as the WORST method for memorization.
I didn't know anyone used highlighting for memorization. Is that a thing? Who would do that?
Cynthia in Florida said:I do highlight, especially in Logos, but that is more so I can find the information later and have it sorted
This is the only reason I highlight, along with reminding myself that I've read it and thought about previously. Plus now with Logos, highlighting can be used to create an automatic summary of what I've read.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Todd Phillips said:Cynthia in Florida said:
3) Many people reference high-lighting. I have read countless books on teaching, and did you know that high-lighting, although many people employ it, is considered highly ineffective and ranks as the WORST method for memorization.
I didn't know anyone used highlighting for memorization. Is that a thing? Who would do that?
Cynthia in Florida said:I do highlight, especially in Logos, but that is more so I can find the information later and have it sorted
This is the only reason I highlight, along with reminding myself that I've read it and thought about previously. Plus now with Logos, highlighting can be used to create an automatic summary of what I've read.
Hello Todd: YES! Several people in this very thread suggest highlighting for retention in response to Mark's request for how to read and retain. And in the academic world, people do it all the time, which is why so much research has been done on how ineffective it is so that they can offer tools which are effective.
Secondly, would love to see, step by step (sequentially! LOL) how you use Logos to create an automatic summary of what you read.
Blessings!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
how you use Logos to create an automatic summary of what you read
Here is a detailed illustration of my method which I described at another post
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/112948/748875.aspx#748875
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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Hi Cynthia,
I do not want you to get the impression that I am saying that one system is better than other. I particularly think that deliberate effort should be done to develop competency in both the sequential and the submerge.
This ties to the old synchronic vs diachronic method of Biblical theology study.
Sequential study is very important in areas such as Textual criticism etc.
But unfortunately, to obtain the true representative doctrine on a topic from the Bible, a final check with a diachronic method is needed.
By diachronic I not only mean the development of doctrine through time, but also the intertextual possibility to clarify events, etc.
As an example Paul said in Pentecost that what was happening with the arrival of the Holy Spirit was related to the prophecy from an OT book.
So that you have an idea of what areas are involved in the theological disciplines see the following:
http://sites.silaspartners.com/cc/article/0,,PTID314526_CHID598016_CIID2031516,00.html
See the diagram below from the article:
You mentioned worldview, and very few authors have tied that Christian worldview concept to the different theologies. I found one resource that begins to do that, but more work needs be done:
Easley, K. H. (2002). Holman QuickSource guide to understanding the Bible. Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers.
The QuickSource Guide then looks at how that particular book of the Bible contributes to and shapes a Christian’s Worldview. Twelve themes that make up a Christian Worldview are as follows:
God; creation; sovereignty and providence; faith and reason; revelation and authority; humanity; rebellion and sin; covenant and redemption; community and church; discipleship; ethics and morality; and time and eternity. (p. 4).
See, right doctrine should help with orthopraxis. Problem is that many times people become parrot Christians repeating the dogma indoctrinated in their particular denomination (groupthink is not what Jesus came to preach).
Jesus asked the man in Luke 10-26: what do you read, (as in how you interpret), and notice he was referring to the Scripture, He did not say: what did Gamaliel say, what did the Pharisees set as dogma, nor what did the Saducees have in their creed.
We are commanded to love God with all our mind: to me this means engaging both hemispheres (sequential and holistic), and using Scripture, reason, tradition, and experience to get to the truth of God.
Critical thinking skills along with the help of the Holy Spirit, are key, and we have and non-delegable responsibility to search for the truth, as is our salvation that is at stake.
The whole of what I am saying here is very tied to learning, including the different styles, many times I am just very surprised at the lightly way many times people go about this.
We have awesome tools never available before (e.g. L7, forums, Faithlife, etc.), but let's use them right engaging both our hemispheres, with lots of love for our Savior, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and become modern Berea synagogue like students, that objectively and impartially search the Scriptures to see if proposed theological constructs are so.
Blessings.
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Todd Phillips said:
I didn't know anyone used highlighting for memorization. Is that a thing? Who would do that?
Hi Todd:
I highlight a lot. Eventually if I get the time, I want to create a mind map with a very detailed listing of subjects as in a systematic theology.
Once I do that, I can use L7 to search within my highlights, so that I can then place hyperlinks to the relevant information in the mind map.
This theoretically would allow me to quickly locate important information (from my perspective) related to key areas.
I see no use in memorizing lots of information, if one can develop a good system for easy location and retrieval.
Now according to the different use given to the information, maybe some do have to memorize.
Some have suggested in other threads to place the highlighted info in Anki cards to facilitate progressive learning, that eventually should get to permanent ability to recall.
Peace.
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