Inconsistent Sense tagging?

I was looking for the passage where Hanun shamed David's servants.

I had the LEB open, and did an inline search (All Bible Text in All Passages) for <Sense buttocks>, since I didn't remember the exact wording. This only returned one verse (Is 20:4).

I then tried a simple search for buttocks which returned two additional verses (1Chr 19:4, 2Sa 10:4).

The interlinear revealed that the latter verses' buttocks were tagged <Sense hip>.

Why would a different sense be chosen, when the verses in Isaiah and 2 Samuel both used the same lemma שֵׁת? I can see from text comparison that some bible versions (e.g., ESV) translate שֵׁת as hips instead of buttocks, but in this case, two different senses are being used for the same lemma.

Are senses version-independent, or is there a different sense dataset for each version? If there is a single dataset, what determines the sense? Is the sense based on a particular translation?

I expected that the sense should have returned as many or more matches than searching for a specific word, but I got less results. Isn't the purpose of the sense to find any general occurrences, regardless of which particular word was used?

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Comments

Fred Chapman

Why would a different sense be chosen, when the verses in Isaiah and 2 Samuel both used the same lemma שֵׁת? I can see from text comparison that some bible versions (e.g., ESV) translate שֵׁת as hips instead of buttocks, but in this case, two different senses are being used for the same lemma.

This is often the case. It is the case in English as well. For example if I use the word running in a statement, It could have the sense associated with running around a track. Or it could be water coming from a faucet. Or it could be someone seeking an elected position. All the same word, three very different senses.

In the Hebrew lemma you are talking about, it is used 4x Each with a different sense.

Isaiah 20 uses it in what we would most likely consider a literal sense. The picture is of captives being led away naked.

In Psalms, the term is used in a sense that gives us the picture of a spiritual foundation being destroyed.

In 2 Samuel, the sense is probably better understood as hips, as it would be unlikely Hanun would have stripped them completely naked, thus the qualifier "as far as their hips".

Isaiah 19 the sense is a specific group of people, in this case weavers

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/846780#Comment_846780

Isaiah 20 uses it in what we would most likely consider a literal sense. The picture is of captives being led away naked.

In 2 Samuel, the sense is probably better understood as hips, as it would be unlikely Hanun would have stripped them completely naked, thus the qualifier "as far as their hips".

Ah. Because the second case is more specific (qualified), the sense has used a different anatomic word to more accurately reflect the meaning. I didn't expect the senses to be so finely attuned.

Thanks for the lesson to treat the senses less "formally," if you will.

Sean Boisen

...

I expected that the sense should have returned as many or more matches than searching for a specific word, but I got less results. Isn't the purpose of the sense to find any general occurrences, regardless of which particular word was used?

The purpose of the Bible Sense Lexicon is to make it easier to access word meaning in the biblical text. Since words can be used in different ways, searching for words tells you both too much (it will include all senses for that word) and too little (it won't include other words that express the same sense). The problem is further compounded by the fact that there are two biblical languages involved: knowing that the Greek word πίστις expresses the sense "the quality of being faithful" (along with several other senses) doesn't help you find the corresponding sense in the Hebrew Bible.

The senses come from analyzing the source texts, so they don't reflect a particular translation. In many cases they're more precise that an individual word: that means it can be challenging to find the sense you're interested in (but if you're starting from a source lemma, the Senses section in Bible Word Study will show the various senses that word can express).

This video from Logos 5 will give you an overview of the Bible Sense Lexicon: https://www.logos.com/video/l5-bsl.

Sean Boisen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/848068#Comment_848068

This video from Logos 5 will give you an overview of the Bible Sense Lexicon: https://www.logos.com/video/l5-bsl.

Here's a link to a better video: https://www.logos.com/logos-pro/sense-section