Embarrassing question - Judah and Israel
ok go easy on me please...it it late and I am trying to focus on some of those oracles within Isaiah for class please...
Can anyone point to or give us a link to a readily accessible by most map within LogosNow (for example) to show how Judah/Israel interacted through the years or were at war with another, both were attached by whom and when, etc? Also was God upset with both nations at the same time or seperately?
I am embarrassed to admit for years I thought they were somehow extensions of one another and now as I read Isaiah I recognize how ignorant (might be too harsh a word) I have been of geography and historical significance of these two nations/locations/locales?
Anyone got some good easy to copy/paste resources to put here...a sort of Judah/Israel primer please?
Yes I know I am a grad school student and no I am NOT asking you to do my homework for me...but I am hoping you will graciously and kindly illuminate and educate us all in a simple manner (if possible) please.
So here is the embarrassing question:
Were Judah and Israel ever one and how much impact through how many years did they have upon one another? Anyone else get the two nations or places muddled in their heads and assimilate them into one region that various nations attacked and carted off? Do you two forget who was in the north and who was in the south and how much each mattered in the Bible?
I wonder if Logos offers a basic course on Biblical Geography - perhaps:
BASIC THINGS EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT BIBLICAL GEOGRAPHY .
Maybe this resource currently NOT in my library might help....right?
and to show I am not completely helpless or a lost cause...
No doubt that has some good info as well....any others - maybe something very basic? Other than my NKJV and Bible commentary what Logos Now resources would you have open and linked together if you were me?
I just know some seasoned Pastor or more alert Seminarian is asking themselves right now "He's kidding, right?". Nope...I sacrificed my dignity so we might all be edified at once 
Comments
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The best way to figure it out is to read I Samuel - II Chronicles with a good commentary like The Bible Knowledge Commentary (it is in a dozen or so L7 packages)
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Thanks Robert...I actually have that resource and will open and review it as well...thanks.
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After reading the Bible books Kingdom of Priests: A History of Old Testament Israel would be a good next book to read.
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The division was after the death of Solomon. Map below is from:
Holman Book of Biblical Charts, Maps, and Reconstructions
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Probably not enough time to do it before your class, but I'd highly recommending taking the time at least once to read the bible in chronological order. You can buy a special Bible for this, or make your own reading plan in Logos HERE. I found reading the Bible this way to be very helpful not only for understanding what was going on with Judah and Israel, but also for understanding the role and timing of the minor prophets.
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This might help understand Israel & Judah. Included is a download link for the Reese Chronological Bible as a personal Book for Logos. But first;
Reese Chronological Bible From an Amazon Customer review.
5.0 out of 5 stars Love the Side-by-side Text for Divided Kingdom
By Amazon Customer on January 7, 2012
Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase"I agree with the other reviews that a chronological bible is a must for the serious bible student; one of the most helpful Old Testament features is the side-by-side text during the time of the divided kingdom."
"You will get a better historical understanding of parallel events, especially during the fall of the Northern kingdom and then ending with the exile to Babylon. During this period (945-721 B.C.), the left side of each page follows the history of Israel, known as the Northern Kingdom, and the right side of the page Judah, the Southern Kingdom."
Here is a link of the Reese Chronological Bible in Personal Book form by John Brumett
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Thank you Ryan, Dave, and Robert (awesome map...cool beans!). Your replies and book suggestions (some of which I thankfully own) are a blessing. I over J is how I will remember the map and of course read more so I get the important geographical cues properly.
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I continue to wonder if there isn't some easy way to open the following
- 1 Bible
- 1 Map (or book that tracks with maps so while reading Isaiah I can actually figure out where I am geographically...a sort of "Where in the Biblical World Am I" feature
- 1 Commentary
- 1 People/Place/Location pronouncer that always works especially when it comes time to read in a public setting and you either need to say it phonetically or have the software actually say the word aloud for you.
To me this seems like something very basic that Logos should have available right off without programming a layout and all the steps (I call them crazy gyrations) that takes.
Here is my most recent attempt. Does it look right to any of you? (Mr. Harner, I went back and added the Holman Book though it is missing from my example below)
Does anyone else beside me this process should be effortless and simple? Having a Biblical map that tracks with you while you read would be so awesome don't you think? I linked all my resources and to date can not find a map that follows along or changes as you go...wow what a resource that would be!
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JoshInRI said:
Does anyone else beside me this process should be effortless and simple? Having a Biblical map that tracks with you while you read would be so awesome don't you think? I linked all my resources and to date can not find a map that follows along or changes as you go...wow what a resource that would be!
It may be possible, but also possible the costs would be that no one this side of Roger Williams Park could afford it. Lots of elbow grease can set the maps in your mind so you have less need to look at them after a while. I have a dead tree atlas or two I'm planning to read cover to cover in next few months to further solidify land masses in the little gray cells. Spending the time including at minimum a read though Gen-Rev every year pays off after a while.
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JoshInRI said:
- 1 Bible
- 1 Map (or book that tracks with maps so while reading Isaiah I can actually figure out where I am geographically...a sort of "Where in the Biblical World Am I" feature
- 1 Commentary
- 1 People/Place/Location pronouncer that always works especially when it comes time to read in a public setting and you either need to say it phonetically or have the software actually say the word aloud for you.
I would make a custom passage guide, with just the sections "Atlas", "Biblical Places" and "Biblical People" (Atlas is usually what I want more than biblical places, but your mileage may vary). Then put that into a layout with a bible and your preferred commentary. When you click on a biblical person or place, it will open the Factbook, which will pronounce it for you.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Thanks Mr. Gatlin. I will try that out. What a shame one of the new layouts doesn't automatically do this for us at the start menu, right? I know that Bible Explorer tries to do some of this but as I pointed out elsewhere in the forums...it needs to be vastly improved and overhauled along with the confusing menus...seriously.
Addendum: I tried this and incredibly do not find any results under Atlas (though I own some within Logos) other other items on this list.
What gives? See below please:
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JoshInRI said:
What a shame one of the new layouts doesnt automatically do this for us at the start menu, right?!!!
Don't gripe ... make a suggestion.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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..thanks I did and have...apparently more than once. I am seriously looking for assistance and am finding it in other posts too.
I am just stunned at how challenging doing the most basic of things in Logos really is. I look forward to a from the ground up revamp now that 7.0 has been released.
Blessings,
Joshua
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JoshInRI said:
under Atlas (though I own some within Logos) other other items on this list.
Under Atlas you get only results from a specific online resource called "Atlas"
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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JoshInRI said:
I look forward to a from the ground up revamp now that 7.0 has been released.
Given the current direction of the betas, I doubt that is in the near future. I would expect the next revamp to be timed to when voice and touch are the primary rather than secondary ways of dealing with the computer.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ...that is amazing. I thought it might draw from other atlases within our library.
(as an aside....)
My guess is reading anyone looking at my posts is either annoyed (sorry) or hopefully smiling recognizing I am in the throes of finally trying to make practical use of Logos (LogosNow to be precise) and seeing how far it has come and well...how much further it has to go.
I also know that my honest confession of ignorance (gulp) is helpful to some when the answers are posted as well and for God's grace there (and the kindness of so many forum posters) I am thankful.
I would enjoy simplicity in menu and functionality but recognize the complexity of that pursuit too. I just feel with each iteration of Logos I need to become a programmer of sorts. Seems silly to me. I am very thankful for what we do have though (Praise God and thank you Logos developers one and all).
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MJ. Smith said:
I would expect the next revamp to be timed to when voice and touch are the primary rather than secondary ways of dealing with the computer.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Thanks Ted. I am looking over my first silly post above and have come quite far since then in my understanding. I just read that Israel attacked Judah in the ESV Study Bible and that Bible contains come nice color maps in it too.
I am just dumbfounded by how poor my understanding of Biblical geography is...and for that I can only ask that God gives me enough years to study and correct it as I believe it is vital not just for classes but to aid others when I share info simply with them in the future too.
I comes before J is an excellent way of looking at it. Now keeping track of all those oracles, supposed misguided alliance attempts, and how often people did not rely upon the Lord exclusively when they should have - these are entirely different important matters.
It seems amazing over 2K have looked at this post. Probably tuning it to laugh along with me or see how I am doing trying to make better use of this awesome tool in Logos we have.
Blessings Sir/All
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I never realized I had a resource titled biblical places maps by logos. It doesn't show under my interactives. Should it?
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Mattillo said:
Should it?
No it is not an interactive. You should have a dataset Biblical places that supports Factbook (among other things).
As for this, it is not in my library.
Mattillo said:resource titled biblical places maps
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Interesting. Thanks MJ. Joshin posted a picture of it earlier.
I wonder where I got it from.
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JoshInRI said:
Were Judah and Israel ever one and how much impact through how many years did they have upon one another?
Yes. They certainly were united during the reign of King David and his son, Solomon. And their was some union of the North and South under their predecessor, King Saul, although for a time David was a rival king. Before that any national unity seems to be whoever recognized a particular charismatic Judge and showed up when they called. And of course, there was the time of the Exodus...
I would strongly recommend a read through of Genesis, Joshua, Judges, 1/2 Samuel, and 1/2 Kings, looking up the various place names as you go along. Back in school, when I did this, it was with the Oxford Bible Atlas (as an undergrad) and the Macmillan Bible Atlas (now Carta) in Grad school. Logos has a Biblical Places tool that should give this info too...
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Mattillo said:
I wonder where I got it from.
Doing a search on maps I found it [:$]... no biographic information which is very odd ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ken McGuire said:
I would strongly recommend a read through of Genesis, Joshua, Judges, 1/2 Samuel, and 1/2 Kings, looking up the various place names as you go along.
The best way to learn the Bible is to read it (and read and read . . .)
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JoshInRI said:
I am just dumbfounded by how poor my understanding of Biblical geography is...
No one...no matter how smart or how spiritual, gains such knowledge easily. As others have said, reading and re-reading the historical books in the OT will go far. Bible Atlases give some needed help. And I agree, Kingdom of Priests (book) is a good way to begin to understand.
I still remember how remarkable it was when I learned this historical overview.... and how:
I had been a Christian all of a year or two...and I took a course at my University called "Old Testament Introduction". Raised an atheist, I hadn't heard the OT stories as a child. And by the end of that course, I could "think" my way through the main stories of the Bible. Even though I had been a church goer for two years where the church "preached the Bible" for 40 minutes each week, I had no clue that Israel and Judah were two separate entities... how that happened, why that happened, what happened because of it. And in rather short order, I could now "think my way through the Biblical story". It was an enlightenment... but it paid off big when I now read my NT in a new light.
Thanks for posting this... it is a reminder that we often need to communicate the simple stuff... the stuff we think we all should know (simply because we do), while forgetting what it took for us to see these things in our own journey.
God's richest blessings,
JJ
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Hello Josh:
I hope you don't mind a "non-logos" suggestion.
Whenever I study Scripture, I print out a map or two of the region (usually Israel and the middle-east area) . Print out ones with not too much information on it though, just major regions and cities. Then, when I am reading, and I come across a geographic reference, I go to the map and find it on the map. Then, I number it (the number depending on what number reference it is in my reading) and then over to the side, I write what the reference number relates to in my reading.
For instance, I'm currently studying the Gospel of John.
I printed out a map of Israel..
Chapter 1 takes place in Jerusalem, so I put a number 1 at Jerusalem and then over to the side, I put
1. Jerusalem (Ch. 1)
Then, Jesus comes to John the Baptist "in Bethany, on the other side of the Jordan." So, I put a number two at Bethany and write on the side of my map under my number 1
2. Bethany - Jesus comes to John the Baptist (1.28)
He also called Andrew and Peter from there so I added...
2. Bethany - Jesus Comes to John the Baptist (1:28) and Calls Andrew and Peter (1:38)
Later, I read in Chapter One that Jesus goes to the region of Galilee and calls Philip and Nathaniel so I put a number three up in the Galilee region and write on the side of my map...
3. Galilee - Jesus calls Philip and Nathaniel to follow Him (1:43)
Chapter 2 tells me He went to Cana for a wedding, so I put a number 4 near Cana and write on the side of my map
4. Cana - Jesus attends Wedding (First Sign). (2:1)
The reason I don't draw lines is because they get too confusing to follow, but do what works for you.
There are a few reasons this works better than just looking at a map.
First you are actively searching for geographical locations, and you mark your text, thus interacting with it.
Then, you go to your map and "hunt" for the location (although once you do this a couple of times, the locations become easy to find).
Then, you number the region and write down what happened at that region, again, interacting with it.
By writing down what occurred there, you will find you remember the region even better, as "the pencil is the best of eyes."
As a Bible study teacher, and one who writes inductive studies, I have found that my students LOVE doing this and discover so much more than just looking at a map in the back of their Bibles or online...or in this case, on Logos.
Now the reason I don't print out a map with ALL the cities, etc., is that if I do, it becomes too easy after a while. So, I print out a simplified version, and then if there is something I cannot find...I go to a Bible atlas or Logos for a little bit of "research" and write the city or mountain or whatever in the location on my map, thus re-enforcing my learning even more.
I hope this makes sense. If not, I'll scan my map I'm working on now with John and upload it as an example.
Blessings as you embark on this journey. I LOVE studying Scripture this way. I pray you come to experience the joy and sheer fun of learning biblical geography.
BTW...Rick Griffith at biblestudydownloads.org has a fantastic free pdf file on learning biblical geography. See here. http://biblestudydownloads.org/resource/bible-geography/
The PDF document is like the study/manual, (the DOC is the same material but is graphic heavy and takes a while to load). BUT...don't miss out on his FANTASTIC Power Points that go with it. They are filled with graphics, maps, pictures, explanations, etc. ENJOY!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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JJ and Cynthia (and the thousands who read my original post and those who responded)
Thanks for your excellent ideas, suggestions, document links, urls, and testimony.
Glory to God...Jesus Lead On!
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A GREAT resource for learning the land of Israel and the Bible is this:
Many Logos packages have photos from this source, but the entire set is incredible. That and an atlas is all you need to learn geography.
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