What happens to our library if faithlife goes under?

I have wanted to make the dive and purchase a base package for a while but have always been tentative solely on the basis of what if the company goes under. Are all the books we purchase installed locally on our computers hard drive or is it cloud service and synced remotely?

It would be ideal if we possessed the file format in case they collapse (like when you purchase an ebook).

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James Taylor

First off I'd recommend you read Bob's post from January which may calm some of your nerves.

https://community.logos.com/forums/p/121491/795581.aspx#795581

and second

Are all the books we purchase installed locally on our computers hard drive or is it cloud service and synced remotely?

Yes, unless you subscribe to Logos Cloud. In that case you'd simply be renting books. Otherwise, the books you own will be stored locally and permanently on your drive.

Jan Krohn

Please also upvote this uservoice request: https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-7/suggestions/10936203-installable-software-library-and-license-backup

William M. Harper

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858934#Comment_858934

the books you own will be stored locally and permanently on your drive.

What is the folder name? All I can find is the Logos log file.

Ken McGuire

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858948#Comment_858948

What is the folder name?

Default is C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\RandomString\ResourceManager\Resources

where: "UserName" is whatever your user name is on that computer

and: "RandomString" is a 8.3 string that Logos picks whenever it installs.

William M. Harper

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858952#Comment_858952

What is the folder name?

Default is C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\RandomString\ResourceManager\Resources

where: "UserName" is whatever your user name is on that computer

and: "RandomString" is a 8.3 string that Logos picks whenever it installs.

Ok. Thank you, Ken.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/858952#Comment_858952

Default is C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Local\Logos\Data\RandomString\ResourceManager\Resources

For any Mac user who stumbles on this thread, the path is

/Users/yourusername/Library/Application Support/Logos4/Data/ai630slj.1g0/ResourceManager/Resources

ai630slj.1g0 = some random title

On a newer installation, Logos4 may have a slightly different name.

Note that the Library folder is hidden by default; hold down the Option key when you click the Go menu to view it

Mike Binks

I have wanted to make the dive and purchase a base package for a while but have always been tentative solely on the basis of what if the company goes under. Are all the books we purchase installed locally on our computers hard drive or is it cloud service and synced remotely?

It would be ideal if we possessed the file format in case they collapse (like when you purchase an ebook).

You won't need the books in the new creation - "then you will know as you are fully known".

Future Prodigy

So just to confirm

1) If the company goes under we can still have access to the files? By making a backup of the database that is stored locally?

2) if we upgrade to a new computer and they've gone under how would we reinstall the software? On the new pc

3) assuming we can't reinstall the software because the company is no longer around can we at least open the books we've purchased in another reader? Obviously they won't be hyperlinked and have all the functionality but would there be any way to at least read them?

I am very skeptical of being locked to one program when spending this much. Which is why I like the ebook format

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860385#Comment_860385

Future, you're making this more complicated than you need to. I'm smiling.

1. Imagine you cut the cord with Faithlife. How long will your Logos last? Only as long as your computer system update (Windows, Mac) doesn't blow it up. So far, that means 4-5 years or so. If you want to use a backup beyond that, you have to detach from any system updates. Which means stay off the internet. tI's easy to demonstrate with earlier Logos versions.

2. Your bigger issue is Faithlife staying in business, but doing something you really don't like. Something theological. Or maybe subscription only for new features. Or demanding a major new PC to continue use. What then? See #1.

3. The final issue is your own desire to acquire. Apparently quite a few (me) have purchased well beyond what common sense would suggest. But once you do, you're pretty much stuck. That would be risk #2 above.

Best bet: do the minimum you NEED.

Answering you queries:

1. Your Logos is on your computer. You can back it up; there's instructions. As long as your system doesn't do anything to screw up Logos.

2. See #1 answer; re-install if the system will accept. Else tough cookies.

3. Logos books can only be opened with Logos and the user license file. You can copy out of Logos to a doc, but a major, major pain.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860385#Comment_860385

1) If the company goes under we can still have access to the files? By making a backup of the database that is stored locally?

Yes.

2) if we upgrade to a new computer and they've gone under how would we reinstall the software? On the new pc

You'd have to have downloaded the installer, which you'd run on your new computer (to install the application), then restored the data that you previously backed up.

The real issue here is that your unsupported version of Logos eventually won't be compatible with some newer version of Windows/macOS, and it eventually just won't run at all on a newer PC.

In that scenario, you'll have to keep your old PC around, and stop upgrading its OS, so Logos doesn't stop working.

3) assuming we can't reinstall the software because the company is no longer around can we at least open the books we've purchased in another reader? Obviously they won't be hyperlinked and have all the functionality but would there be any way to at least read them?

No, and no. The books are stored in a proprietary format, and I don't believe their native format can be read by any other application. The best you could do is tediously export a book into some other format, but that would only be possible within Logos. Once Logos stops working, you effectively lose access to your library.

I am very skeptical of being locked to one program when spending this much. Which is why I like the ebook format

Just because a book is in a digital format, it doesn't imply it's unlocked.

Is there cheaper bible study software, where the books aren't locked? Yes. But it will be missing the majority of tools and features that Logos offers.

David Ames

Maybe it is time that the user base [us] requires that Faithlife provide the source code to a resource reader to some third party to hold in the event that Faithlife folds or is bought out for its customer base.

There would have to be some legally binding contract between the user base and Faithlilfe that if it ever goes out of business that the code to the reader would be released to the public domain.

Future Prodigy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860410#Comment_860410

"Just because a book is in a digital format, it doesn't imply it's unlocked.

Is there cheaper bible study software, where the books aren't locked? Yes. But it will be missing the majority of tools and features that Logos offers."

Which software would that be? I want to compare it. I don't need all the functionality of logos to be honest but I do need guaranteed unlocked access to my purchase in the future

Doc B

Based on what has happened when other companies have folded, the best guess is, you'd lose everything. One other option would be, if you are pretty good at computer stuff, you might keep it working locally for a few months. Try disconnecting from the web and running Logos for a week or so. See how that goes. You can make it work, but it will be a very different platform. Eventually, should another company not pick up the pieces, you'd be out of luck.

Much of what I see posted here in the responses seems to be wishful thinking.

As an aside, I really don't think FL would "go under." It generates too much cash flow. I tend to agree with Bob that another company would pick up the rights and move forward, albeit with a very different mindset and worldview. In the case of an economy bad enough that FL fails and no one can or will redeem it, I suspect getting your software to function will be the least of your worries.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860430#Comment_860430

Maybe it is time that the user base [us] requires that Faithlife provide the source code to a resource reader to some third party to hold in the event that Faithlife folds or is bought out for its customer base.

There would have to be some legally binding contract between the user base and Faithlilfe that if it ever goes out of business that the code to the reader would be released to the public domain.

Great idea, although Bob has stated that he believes if something ever happened causing FL to disappear it would be picked up by another company.... So your FL library would end up being mergers into a Wordsearch or Olivetree or Accordance or NEW BIBLE SOFTWARE X..... Now I can not say it is super likely a smaller player like Accordance would be able to but one like Olivetree with one of the big 5 publishers would likely love to get ahold of it since it is owner by the HaperCollins group. But this is all speculation and we have been told again and again FL is in good shape.. that said they claimed the titanic was unsinkable and even after the iceberg hit i believe most of the crew thought there was no reason to panic.

-Dan

Robert Harner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860441#Comment_860441

In the case of an economy bad enough that FL fails and no one can or will redeem it, I suspect getting your software to function will be the least of your worries.

Bingo

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860440#Comment_860440

I do need guaranteed unlocked access to my purchase in the future

No matter what Bible software you choose, such a guarantee would probably not be worth the paper it was written on.

F. Kelly Dougherty

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860444#Comment_860444

Just a quick note: I'm Roman Catholic and so my resources are under ".../Verbum/..." rather than ".../Logos/...".

And I agree that my wish to have "guaranteed" books is directly contrary to Verbum's wish to have "protected intellectual property." Years ago I standardized on the *.lit format because, hey, it was a Microsoft standard. M$ dropped support for *.lit a few years back. Amazon's Kindle ebooks are another possible nightmare-to-come.

But if Verbum simply published everything in, say, *.epub, they would definitely be leading me into temptation. I would be assured that their bankruptcy would still leave me with usable ebooks but it would be oh-so-easy for me to find reasons I should "share" with my friends.

The only practical solution I see would be something like all the books being saved to a standard open format (like *.epub) and given to a reputable trustee (a big bank?) to distribute if Verbum went out of business. But the legal contract would be very tricky. Should they distribute if Verbum requires subscriptions? How about if it requires $1,000/year subscriptions? What if there is a successor company but they're offline 50% of the time? Or 5% of the time? etc. etc.

Mike Childs

I have been buying most of my books from Logos / Faithlife for over 20 years now. I have never lost a book in all that time. Can't say that about my paper library. If my computer crashes and I lose my books, I just download them again. Books I bought 20 years ago are just as good - no better - than when I bought them. (Better due to improvements in the software, as well as updates of the books.) Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Cut to the chase, my Logos books are more secure and safer than any paper book I ever bought.

Matt Hamrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860523#Comment_860523

I have been buying most of my books from Logos / Faithlife for over 20 years now. I have never lost a book in all that time. Can't say that about my paper library. If my computer crashes and I lose my books, I just download them again. Books I bought 20 years ago as just as good - no better - than when I bought them. (Better due to improvements in the software, as well as updates of the books.) Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Cut to the chase, my Logos books are more secure and safer than any paper book I ever bought.

[Y] I agree with this completely.

Matt Hamrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860523#Comment_860523

I have been buying most of my books from Logos / Faithlife for over 20 years now. I have never lost a book in all that time. Can't say that about my paper library. If my computer crashes and I lose my books, I just download them again. Books I bought 20 years ago as just as good - no better - than when I bought them. (Better due to improvements in the software, as well as updates of the books.) Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Cut to the chase, my Logos books are more secure and safer than any paper book I ever bought.

[Y] I agree with this completely.

Kevin A Lewis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860524#Comment_860524

Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Except for when a terrestrial (or solar) E.M.P. strikes.

For those who don't know - research Electro-Magnetic Pulse.

Shalom

Fasil

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860523#Comment_860523

I have been buying most of my books from Logos / Faithlife for over 20 years now. I have never lost a book in all that time. Can't say that about my paper library. If my computer crashes and I lose my books, I just download them again. Books I bought 20 years ago as just as good - no better - than when I bought them. (Better due to improvements in the software, as well as updates of the books.) Sure can't say that about my paper books that I bought 20 years ago.

Cut to the chase, my Logos books are more secure and safer than any paper book I ever bought.

from Logos's past history and their current situation , I hope & believe we're in good hands. Even If the worst comes there are a lot of developers who may or could support it''continuation through open-source "Logos " software. There are thousands of people who've heavily invested on it , who won't let it go in vain. I believe we'll come together and make it happen. No worries! I'll keep investing as needed. It's my prayer and support that Logos may live and be a blessing for thousands of people in years to come. Keep up the good job you're doing!

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860404#Comment_860404

Best bet: do the minimum you NEED.

The challenge will be to honestly separate NEEDS from WANTS.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Are all the books we purchase installed locally on our computers hard drive or is it cloud service and synced remotely?

Logos, Verbum, and Noet applications have resources installed and indexed locally so can work offline.

Logos wiki => Online Only has items that become unusable without Faithlife Cloud.

Logos wiki also has => Quick Installation onto multiple computers and => Quick Installation onto Multiple Macs

Personally use scan command to quickly copy resources from one installation to my other installations (followed by indexing). Thankful can have many installations on my devices with my library, which is useful if a device quits working.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Vincent Chia

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860524#Comment_860524

Faithlife will never go under with customers like ME! [;)]

Since using Logos I have little motivation to do research with my printed library. It's really a no brainer.

SteveHD

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860682#Comment_860682

God's Word would go on as well as His will. I view my investment as not just in my own future use but the very real spreading of His Word now by this community and tool.

David A Egolf

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860523#Comment_860523

After a quick read of this thread, I did not notice anyone point out an obvious point: Logos will allow you to install the software and books on as many PC's and devices as you wish. Thus, if there ever was an "endgame", you can have it on multiple computers and run them until they drop. You would have Logos feature access until the last one won't work.

At least one person in our Logos users group is running an older version of Logos on Windows XP. The machine is at least seven years old and about 3 years out of Logos support.

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/861118#Comment_861118

I guess we just have to have something to worry about. I would guess that you are more likely to be hit by a meteor - or have computer hit by a meteor - and be killed than to lose the resources you have perchased from Logos.

Greg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/861148#Comment_861148

Without too much work its not too difficult to convert books to PDF. If Logos ever when under, that's what I would do.

Vince L.

I have shared this concern as well and spent some great deal of time digging into the issue and talking with Logos Reps. Here's what I've found:

1. My concern was less about where my stuff physically is. Resources in Logos are downloaded to my computers. The issue is that the resources require Logos to be readable. They are in a proprietary format, unlike say a PDF that will likely live quite long.

2. If Logos were to die as a company a long time from now what happens? I am no afraid of them dying short-term - they have huge customer base. But perhaps 30 years from now? Eventually development on software would stop and within about 4-5 years their software wouldn't run on my Mac's operating systems anymore. THIS IS THE TRUE DANGER! WHAT HAPPENS TO MY BOOKS AT THIS POINT!

3. I actually received a satisfying answer from my Logos rep today. Logos 7 features a Print/Export option. They do allow you to export resources to either print or save as Text & PDF Documents. The process is slightly cumbersome. For instance PDF's have 100 page limits, so you'd have to split a 500 page resource into 5 different PDFs and combine them after export, which can be done! The point is there DOES exist an avenue through which the resources you buy could (painstakingly but possibly) be brought out of Logos if they were to fold.

As long as that is an option, there is a viable path forward for the books I buy and own through Logos, should the worst ever happen and development cease!

Eduardo Espiritu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860385#Comment_860385

Paranoid backup calls for a Virtual Box windows install that can move to any new hardware you purchase. A legit windows license is about $50 if you shop. Virtual Box is a freebie from Oracle. Backup on Amazon S3 is would be under $10/yr unless you have purchased everything.

Keith Pang

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/883129#Comment_883129

There is no need to worry...that is a waste of time [:)] There are more important things to focus on. Otherwise we could sit around all day and find something to worry about.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/883081#Comment_883081

If Logos were to die as a company a long time from now what happens? I am no afraid of them dying short-term - they have huge customer base. But perhaps 30 years from now? Eventually development on software would stop and within about 4-5 years their software wouldn't run on my Mac's operating systems anymore.

Welcome [:D]

VirtualBox on Mac host can legally have macOS or OS X guest virtual machine(s). VirtualBox is open source, which is updated several times a year.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Ezra Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/860440#Comment_860440

Olive Tree is really good. They have a different Base packaging method. Instead of getting a variety of resources, OT will get you a NKJV set with commentaries and dictionaries that go along with the NKJV. Cheaper? By far. But OT is targeting a different audience than Logos. Logos is more for scholar work and research and the foreign language user. OT is more for the layman and college students. So Logos is more money, but you get a cool study environment. OT is more into getting you to read your bible and disect it.

Ezra Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/883283#Comment_883283

If you are ultra paranoid of losing your library, but don't want to spend a lot of money, checkout thriftbooks.com. I have been buying from them for the last 3 months. The reason? Cheap books. Something like under $4 per book. And then free shipping for orders over $15 and then each order earns you rewards for a coupon you can use whenever you want. I wanted to start buying printed commentaries because it's far cheaper and I buyour one or two from each series. So I bought some Jay Vernon Mcgee, some out of print commentaries from the 70s that are the right size for me.

Dave Thawley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/883284#Comment_883284

I am pretty sure that faithlife would do whatever it takes to give us access to all our books indefinitely - seriously, they are an ethical Christ centered company and that would drive them to support us.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/883283#Comment_883283

So Logos is more money, but you get a cool study environment. OT is more into getting you to read your bible and disect it.

My favorite Logos and Verbum feature is visual filter highlighting that combines hundreds (thousands) of search results for simultaneous display so can "see" range of Greek verbal expression that is often not translated into English plus much more (for disecting and prayerful consideration):

Screen shot shows combination of propositional outlines with Greek Discourse emphasis and Greek Morphology along with Precept graphics (for repeating themes and topics). Thankful for insights into original author's emphasis in verbal expression plus word placement.

Logos wiki has => Examples of visual filters

Personal speculation is if a business (persecution) reason causes Faithlife to go under, then anticipate other Bible software also being adversely affected.

Keep Smiling [:)]