I'm upset with the new Logos 7.3 about information
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Robert M. Warren said:Mark Bernard said:
I mean why pay over what a book is worth just to have it on my computer?
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I should point out that when an adult, not compelled by force, purchases a product for a price, that is what it's worth.
No, Its worth is in the total Market force of that product, not a subset of that total whole. Sure it would be more convenient for me to have the book from Logos so I can utilize the tags in it, and when you are talking 20-50 dollar singular purchases 10-40% (yes 40% in some cases) is not a huge difference , but when you add those percentage figures over a larger time period and higher product amounts that can be a substantial difference. Thankfully there are several alternatives for an ebook format I can take advantage of for many f the books I want so I will be taking advantage of those and take another look at Logos when they start to become more competitive on price point.
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Mike McKnelly said:
I've been with logos since it came on a few floppy disks. I own over 1300 resources and purchased logos seven cross grade and am a logos now subscriber since its beginning. Yet it is implied in the above screenshot with the red X that I am a lower-class user because I don't have a logos seven library. I am a layperson and I choose to buy the books that I really need rather than ones that I will never look at. Please let me know your opinion on this issue.
This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3
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Here's my main suggestions for how to tweak 7.3's about panel:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/134525/874084.aspx#874084
For the library colored icons, you could include the color of the library level (bronze, silver, gold, platinum, etc.) then put the entire library name next to it (Logos 6 Platinum, Logos 7 Platinum, etc.).
For the features that customers don't own yet, is this similar to "locked books" in Libronix but extends to features/datasets?
I didn't see the red X since I (thankfully) have a Logos 7 library, but looks like it's another feature not fully implemented yet that could have been slightly clearer and maybe should have been released a little later. :-)
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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Philana R. Crouch said:
This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3
Where are my features ? Please fix my Features to be like Base Package Library:
Logos 7 Starter Feature Set shows stuff owned and 68 % off for Dynamic Sale Price
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Priceless, Denise, simply priceless. Made me laugh out loud - literally.
Denise said:Hapax ... normally I'd agree. But in this case, Phil proposes to attach a label to the pastor's suit, saying 'We DO make better suits than you bought.' It'll be a big motivator.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Word Explorer said:Philana R. Crouch said:
This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3
Where are my features ? Please fix my Features to be like Base Package Library:
Thanks for reporting this bug. We'll get it fixed up.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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I totally agree with not finding fault! FL has blessed me sooo much.PetahChristian said:Is it really that important to see how many libraries we own?
Must we find fault with FL for how they choose to market their product?
With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. James 3 9:10 NKJV
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Here's a dumb question. How do I find this "About" screen in the first place? [:$]
The red x doesn't bother me. It's a fairly conventional symbol to denote an absence. I don't internalize it as being a commentary about me as a person. [:P]
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It is under Help - the upper right question mark.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
It is under Help - the upper right question mark.
That's where it is in Windows.
On the Mac, it's under the Logos menu on the menu bar:
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Thank you for the improvements. Still a s why you need to call out a user has a pre-Logos 7 library when at the time you released Logos 7 it was emphasised purchasing a Logos 7 Library was not necessary. The left hand at Logos continues to fail to talk to the right hand and so coflicting messages are sent to customers.
Philana R. Crouch said:Mike McKnelly said:Brady I've been with logos since it came on a few floppy disks. I own over 1300 resources and purchased logos seven cross grade and am a logos now subscriber since its beginning. Yet it is implied in the above screenshot with the red X that I am a lower-class user because I don't have a logos seven library. I am a layperson and I choose to buy the books that I really need rather than ones that I will never look at. Please let me know your opinion on this issue.
This has been improved in 7.3 SR-3
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
purchasing a Logos 7 Library was not necessary
While it may not be necessary to purchase one, selling new libraries is one of the ways that FL pays the bills.
We'd probably agree that FL has the right to promote their products within their program. Given that, the About screen is the least obnoxious place to do it.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Petah, Logos obviously has the right to sell trampolines along with HALOT, if they wish. Might be a bit messy for delivery, and customers might not appreciate it. But it is their right. Along with bronze non-standard prices.
Actually, we can all appreciate the new option promised by Phil not to display it (the About x's and o's, not the trampoline).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mike,
Thanks for the post. I have another problem with the 7.3 info.
The information shown should be as accurate and truthful as possible.
In the third section, the most accurate information for me is to "You used to own Logos 7 Gold library but you don't any longer."
I purchased the Logos 7 Gold library in September 2016.
Now I can purchase the Logos 7 Gold library AGAIN for an extra $418.
Or am I upgrading from Gold to Gold?
Stephen Miller
Australia
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Clearly you have not read what I said, because the issue I raised was the inconsistency of the message they are sending customers. You were toob interested in imposing your view upon me about advertising than taking the time to clearly read what I had said.
Just to repeat, in case you missed what I said above, I was raising a concern about inconsistent messages being sent to customers.The advertising issue was secondarv.
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It seems that a "consistent" message would require FL to stop suggesting that people need to upgrade, since customers don't necessarily need new books and/or features.
While that is noble and customer-centric, FL isn't in the business of doing what's best for the customer. A recurring problem is that customers are still (happily) using L4/5/6 and not upgrading (yet possibly still needing support), which does have an impact on the business.
While you could (also) say that revenue is secondary, anything that affects the bottom line (such as not getting people to upgrade), hurts us customers as well as the employees and business.
P.S. If FL did everything we insisted they do, they probably still wouldn't be in business. I doubt that many of us have the skill, knowledge, and experience to successfully manage their business, yet we tend to give them grief when we disagree with what they do, even when it comes to something so insignificant as a check mark or an x.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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I don't understand why Logos can't show that I actually don't have just a basic starter package, but i actually have Logos 7 Standard Platinum in stead of Logos 7 Library.
But they can add the Explore more libraries to remind me that you can get a even bigger library..
L4 BS, L5 RB & Gold, L6 S & R Platinum, L7 Platinum, L8 Baptist Platinum, L9 Baptist Platinum, L10 Baptist Silver
2021 MacBook Pro M1 Pro 14" 16GB 512GB SSD, running MacOS Monterey iPad Mini 6, iPhone 11.0 -
Lee said:
I don't understand why Logos can't show that I actually don't have just a basic starter package, but i actually have Logos 7 Standard Platinum in stead of Logos 7 Library.
This used to be the case in L4-L6. It's likely that at least two factors caused it to be changed:
- A number of users have multiple libraries and were upset that the software didn't reflect that.
- A number of users had a higher base package in an old version of Logos, and were unhappy that it said they owned L6 Bronze, whereas in fact they also owned L5 Platinum.
There are various lengthy threads on both these topics.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Petah you are constantly complaining about the issues you see as important to you - long standing issues on the website that those of us who have been customers a lot longer than you don't make anywhere near the noise you do about those problems. You also regularly complain about issues with mobile Ed courses, but you then think you have the right to tell me to keep quite about issues that I see as important. You would not like it if every time you raised an issue about the website or mobile Ed, you were told if Logos did everything you insist they wouldn't be in business. So please start respecting we are all different and will all have issues that are of different significance to us. I will not drop this issue just because you tell me to lay off FL. And neither will I tell you to layoff FL because of your constant complaints about the website.
PetahChristian said:It seems that a "consistent" message would require FL to stop suggesting that people need to upgrade, since customers don't necessarily need new books and/or features.
While that is noble and customer-centric, FL isn't in the business of doing what's best for the customer. A recurring problem is that customers are still (happily) using L4/5/6 and not upgrading (yet possibly still needing support), which does have an impact on the business.
While you could (also) say that revenue is secondary, anything that affects the bottom line (such as not getting people to upgrade), hurts us customers as well as the employees and business.
P.S. If FL did everything we insisted they do, they probably still wouldn't be in business. I doubt that many of us have the skill, knowledge, and experience to successfully manage their business, yet we tend to give them grief when we disagree with what they do, even when it comes to something so insignificant as a check mark or an x.
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Thank you for pointing out that I constantly and regularly complain. It is good to hear another person's perspective.
We agree that we complain about issues that are "significant" to us, although the issues we bring up tend to be trivial. I had said "we," not "you," and included myself in that general postscript.
No one is telling you to be quiet. I'm sorry if anything appeared to be personal, because I have nothing against you. I am not offended, and I hope you won't be either, since it is not my desire or intent to offend or irritate you.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Michael said:
I'm not very happy with the new information about my library
If the one-line library description said "You own 27 libraries," would that be better?
FL could even incentivize sales by adding some manner of achievements or badges to be earned that showed us (or others) how long one has been a customer, how many libraries/feature sets/upgrades/courses one has purchased, etc.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Michael said:
I'm not very happy with the new information about my library To me the green tick system doesn't work for me
The ownership information on the About page is intended to fulfill two purposes.
First, it is a quick way to summarize for someone trying to provide support (whether in an official capacity or via peer assistance on these forums) what functionality a user should expect to see. This works well, because features are not generally sold individually, but in packages of increasing tiers of functionality.
Second, it provides a way for many users who are not overly familiar with the current state of the software package(s) to learn about functionality that they don't have, but may appreciate.
It's very apparent that the second use does not apply to you, but the first use can be very applicable if you are asking for help (not for your benefit, but for the benefit of those trying to help).
This information is not (and never has been) intended to be a listing of your complete ownership. The account information on the website is meant to serve this purpose.
I'm sorry that the current design doesn't work for you. I'll be sure to pass along your feedback to the design team.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Michael said:
My information used to tell me the top package I have purchased , what is wrong with that
I don't have a dog in this fight, but for clarification: It used to list the "highest" level package acquired, even if newer ones were purchased later at a lower level. When I bought L4 "Platinum," I had L4 Platinum listed even through I had purchased L5 & L6 gold. IMO, that wasn't very helpful. It seems that whatever FL puts in that slot they get complaints.
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Our dog is too snoozy, to angle his paws into this thread. He can't count that high. Woof, woof.
But ignoring Logos hope to quietly move a store front into the software ( a la Olivetree), and recognizing coder hours are unlimited, I wish they'd add 2 columns in the library: date purchased, and package (or single vol). The current update column is good for a few days, but then scrambled. After that, where the books came from is anyones guess.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Michael said:
I cannot see any problem about sharing about resources and the lists on one's account revealing what has been purchased
I was only illustrating the situation how many library packages I have purchased over time , and maybe some consideration or solution can be found
regarding changing the way the green ticks and red crosses, Logic would say that in marketing that you'd think this would work people would want to click to keep up but I think you'll find that you'll just make it less inviting, people just want to purchase good price packages and add-on resources which integrate into a stable library
What is another lost account ... Strange way to implement and ask customers for their input On improving the product and making it easy for people to know what type of library they built up and purchased, My information used to tell me the top package I have purchased , what is wrong with that,
I apologize if my earlier explanation was clear enough. I don't think there is any concern about revealing what has been purchased. All I'm saying is the the goal of this feature is not to indicate how many library packages have been purchased over time. The goal (or at least one of the two goals I mentioned above) is to help indicate what features the user can expect to function in the application.
If a customer asked "Why can't I see the Sermon editor?", someone can easily answer that by seeing that their About page indicates that they have a "Pre-Logos 7 feature set".
Knowing which library packages have been purchased over time is almost never significant in understanding what features are or are not available in the application, and there are far too many different library configurations and combinations for this type of information to be generally useful in tracking down problems. That's part of the reason why we don't list more information on the About page about library ownership. The information there is meant to convey information that affects the application configuration.
Can you help me understand the benefit in listing all of the purchased packages on the About page? Does this mean it's useful to see other purchases there too? Why or why not? How is this need not met by viewing this information on the website?
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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I'll leave the other questions to others, but...
How is this need not met by viewing this information on the website?
The About page within the application can be consulted offline.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Andrew, not being argumentative, but I sure don't see the value.
Yesterday I was tagging a new feature documentation. Of course the documentation didn't describe where the features were, how to get them, or maybe I already have them, who knows. I quickly consulted the About panel ... of course you know I didn't. I assume it's a Now thing, but you (Logos) are definitely not doing anyone any selling favors. It's alway a goat-trail.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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