New User

I am not sure why I was invited to participate as I had only had version 3 for a couple months. As a new user not well versed in version 3 I am lost with version 4. I need some basic instruction on how to begin. For example, I don't see where to go to look up a verse and read it in several versions. I go to the search button, click on the word "bible" on the right, and type in a reference (Acts 20:20). I get "0 results in 0 verses." It seems one is supposed to just know what to do.

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Comments

Melissa Snyder

Welcome! It is important for us to get feedback from both new and experienced users. We plan to have videos available eventually, and Help (F1) is available in the program now, although it is still a work in progress. To help you get started looking up information on a passage, just type Acts 20:20 in the Enter passage box in the upper-left corner of the Home page, below the Logos Bible Software logo, and click Go. This will open multiple reports, Bibles and Commentaries for that passage.

Use the Basic or Bible Search to search for a word or phrase in a book or Bible.

Melissa

Ken McGuire

Probably you are here because you don't have all the ingrained habits the rest of us do.

You have already been told about the basic reports. To do what you asked, click on Tools, then Text Comparison. There are a few options to pick which all bibles you want, but this should do. I also recommend that you look at the Passage and Exegetical guides you were told about already.

Ken McGuire

TCBlack

Donn,

your opening statement speaks volumes about why you were chosen. you're the guy they're hoping to market this to. You're more valuable than you know!

Beyond that, check out the reports, type in verses and go. Click everything and remember what you did when it breaks. :-)

Donn Arms

Thank you all. I now feel affirmed and my self esteem enhanced. I will keep at it but still long for a basic tutorial.

Juanita

Donn,

I hope you are following this thread. Be encouraged; I have been using Logos for over 7 years and I would love an introductory video that is on the home page with the "news" articles. It would familiarize the NEW user with the operation of the program. It doesn't have to refer back to v. 3 I know I can just type a passage in the box since that seems intuitive. But, what next? My intuition has failed to kick in yet. I really care for the new users and want them to just love v.4 when they install it and broadcast how great it is to their friends and pastors!

Dave Hooton

I am not sure why I was invited to participate as I had only had version 3 for a couple months. As a new user not well versed in version 3 I am lost with version 4.

Donn, we were all lost with v4 - help is pathetic, no tutorials etc. None-the-less keep the Help in its default column because it provides some information. Mark as read all the posts in the sub-forums of the *Logos 4 Private Beta* but do read the posts at that level, and use the Beta Forum Search to find additional info or check if a problem has already been reported.

spitzerpl

Donn, we were all lost with v4 - help is pathetic, no tutorials etc.

But to be far with Logos, we agreed to be their Guinea pigs. they intentionally left little help to see how well we could jump into it "cold turkey" and figure things out. At least this is the impression I got from some of Bob's comments.

J.R. Miller

Philip is right. These help files have been left out specifiically to force us to figure things out on our own. This is PART of the beta process, not a flaw in the help system.

Damian McGrath

they intentionally left little help to see how well we could jump into it "cold turkey" and figure things out

Melissa, who I believe is working on the help resource, has told us a couple of times that the help is still "under construction." I'm not really sure that it's part of the Beta design. Rather, things change during Beta and the help needs to be written to the final product.

I've no doubt the experience of users here will help to shape that resource - we are identifying many of the questions and many of the non-intuitive elements in the program.

For those of us who do use the help function of various programs (or online help resources), the lack of help impedes discovery. Nevertheless, I understand that most people don't use "help". More's the pity - Logos could save some of those high help desk costs if more people just search help or asked on a forum.

J.R. Miller

Melissa, who I believe is working on the help resource, has told us a couple of times that the help is still "under construction." I'm not really sure that it's part of the Beta design. Rather, things change during Beta and the help needs to be written to the final product.

Both statements have been made by Logos people. The answer? It is BOTH/AND not EITHER/OR.

spitzerpl

For those of us who do use the help function of various programs (or online help resources), the lack of help impedes discovery. Nevertheless, I understand that most people don't use "help". More's the pity - Logos could save some of those high help desk costs if more people just search help or asked on a forum.

AMEN! Self-discovery (Well, lets say Holy Spirit Driven self discovery[:)]) is the best teacher.

Dave Hooton

Philip is right. These help files have been left out specifiically to force us to figure things out on our own.

Philip and Joe have mis-read the use of the word "pathetic". In context, I was saying we experienced users have to face the same hurdles as Donn who clearly wanted a (non-pathetic) help/tutorial set.

Tom Reynolds

Donn,

your opening statement speaks volumes about why you were chosen. you're the guy they're hoping to market this to. You're more valuable than you know!

Beyond that, check out the reports, type in verses and go. Click everything and remember what you did when it breaks. :-)

I think Donn's experience speaks volumes about how hard it is going to be for a new user to figure out how to use Logos4. There is nothing intuitive about it as we recently discovered with having to right click on drop down menus. The worst part is that so much of it consists of unknown commands that you need to type into strange boxes. How is a new user even going to know how to go about discovering things for themselves? Sure it is possible but how many have the patience?

Juanita

Tom,

I agree. Therefore, I continue to say there is a need for video tutorials to be included. The only intuitive thing about the home page is the passage box. So, a new user can type in a passage or read all the news clippings which are nice to know but how does it "boost" a new user into a positively, rewarding experience the first time they open v. 4? They might click on the Demo and find out a lot about Logos and its purpose and goals. I don't find anything about v. 4 to be intuitive. As a new user in 2002, what sold me on Logos was the friendly, courteous customer service person I spoke to who helped me figure out the Location Manager and how to load the program. I had help and needed it because even then, it was not user friendly.

TCBlack

I continue to say there is a need for video tutorials to be included.

The good news is that Bob (or George?) has already stated that these are planned, and I'm pretty certain they'll be part of the release.

Steve Cheek

I have been using Logos for about a year and have found it difficult to use v4. I use v3 daily for study and seminary. I'm probably not very intuitive so I look for similar items that are in v3 and have not found them. One is if a book is indexed by page, topic or Bible. I see the three little balls but have been unable to figure out what they are for. Also cannot find parallel assoc. They were clearly labeled in v3 but I cannot find in v4. I do love the floating windows although I hate to admit it took me several days to figure that out. The little grey bars to the right of a passage, are they related to the passage? Maybe I need to look at more carefully. I'll keep working and appreciate the opportunity to test this product. The speed is incredible for searches. To be honest, Morris P. really got me excited about v3 and taught me a lot!!!!!!!!

Damian McGrath

I'm probably not very intuitive

Stephen,

I do not think the problem is that you are not very intuitive. I do not believe that Logos 4 is very intuitively designed for Windows users. Many things do not function in Logos 4 as they function in other Windows programs.

As one Logos employee said recently "And which UI conventions in Logos 4 would you say match windows behaviors? ;-)"

I look for similar items that are in v3 and have not found them. One is if a book is indexed by page, topic or Bible.

I have not been able to find this either.

I see the three little balls but have been unable to figure out what they are for.

They turn various filters on and off. One of the filters is page numbering. One is the new Visual Markup. Click on the balls and give it a whirl.

Also cannot find parallel assoc.

Many braver than you or I have sought and not found.

The little grey bars to the right of a passage, are they related to the passage?

They are related to your history: see here http://community.logos.com/forums/t/1544.aspx

Dave Hooton

I'm probably not very intuitive so I look for similar items that are in v3 and have not found them.

We've all looked for similar features that served us well in v3. To some extent they are present in L4

Parallel Resources -> Click the + tab. Left and right arrow work Equivalent resources, almost the same as Parallel.

Index --> click the circled i in a resource toolbar to see index (page, bible) and search fields

Some of the other stuff has been explained, so use the Private Beta Forum search.

Simon’s Brother

Some of the other stuff has been explained, so use the Private Beta Forum search.

A word of warning about the private beta fourm search.. .it returns results from all forums so be careful what posts you repsond to with questons about th beta, in particular don't get 'general' forum mixed up with the beta 'general feedback' forum..

davidphillips

One is if a book is indexed by page, topic or Bible.

Stephen,

The indexing system (as far as I have been able to tell) works far better than in 3.0. Also, there is no longer a need to switch between index types. In 3.0, if you wanted to type in a Bible reference, you had to select "Bible" from the active index. If you wanted to go by page or topic, same thing. In 4.0, as far as I have found, it simply recognizes what you're doing. So in BDAG, I can type a page number, or a Greek word, and it will accept either of them. I love not having to switch my active index!