Gold Deutsch package, recommended for English readers?

Hi all, and specially German speakers in the forums.

In a LogosTalk article mention is made of:

Kommentar zum Neuen Testament aus Talmud und Midrasch (3 Bände)

Looking it up, I see that it is a part of German gold package.

I see that the package has many theological works.

Do you know if there is a table that shows which of those are translated into English and available in L7?

In case many resources are not translated, would it be recommended to get the package, even if not able to read German (for now)?

I have heard cases of English speakers that learn to read German fairly quickly, is that so?

I got:

https://www.logos.com/product/33539/modern-theological-german-a-reader-and-dictionary,

and it does have many interesting concepts described.

Thanks ahead of time for any guidance.

Peace and grace.

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Comments

Francis

I am not a fluent speaker, but I can give you my perspective as a learner. I have learned several languages and I find academic and theological German not easy to learn. I am not saying this to discourage you from trying. I am just saying that there is an important difference between the kind of German you find in theologies and street German. The syntax tends to be more difficult (longer sentences with a number of relative/subordinate clauses) in these kinds of book. Moreover, some of them are older and modern German has been simplified.

If I were you, I would try my hand at the reader first for a while before investing into a larger package (I assume you know that the reader is not for complete beginners: one needs to have a basic knowledge of the language).

This being said, yes, there are many resources in German that have not been translated. Germany is one of the hotbeds of theological writing. So learning German is definitely an asset for biblical studies for those who can and want to.

Hamilton Ramos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894422#Comment_894422

Thank you Francis for the input.

I am not afraid of trying to learn German, as my native tongue Spanish has also complex grammatical structure compared to some other languages, which could help me understand some of the German (hopefully).

For some reason I find English very easy (to read and write), not so much to pronounce. And some friends were able to learn German (technical) very easily with their English (second language), so I wondered.

Good that you warned me about more complex structure in older German.

So in general would it be more profitable to lear Koine Greek than German? I am very interested in Biblical and systematical theology, and theological model construction seems to be more developed in systematic works like the German ones offered in the gold package.

Have you noticed any parallels between Koine and German?

Thanks for any input.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894437#Comment_894437

Koine Greek and German (and Latin) have in common that they use cases. This is not the case in French and in English (although there are traces of it).

With regard to what is preferable, for biblical studies I would recommend Greek over German hands down. Always give preference to ability to study directly from the primary sources (in this case the New Testament and then the Greek versions of the OT). Otherwise, if you give priority to secondary sources (commentaries, monographs, etc.), your thought (and beliefs) will excessively depend on what others think. History shows one certain undeniable thing: the primary sources do not change (or little as new manuscripts are discovered). Secondary sources that once dominated thought become obsolete and are replaced as more up to date research takes place.

So, primary focus on primary sources and secondary focus on secondary sources!

Hamilton Ramos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894439#Comment_894439

Thanks again for your wise advice.

In my experience though, I have seen that experts at original languages have come up with tremendous errors in interpretation because they do not take the whole counsel of God via intertextual and diachronic study of the Bible.

Some of the greater frameworks for the study of very important Christian concepts come from German authors e.g.

https://www.amazon.com/Paradigm-Shift-Church-Development-Theological/dp/1889638056/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1490979293&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=paradigm+shift+in+the+church

So at the academic German level I would expect to find even more precise theological work.

So both Koine and German could be of much help if one has a God given gift to learn them relatively easily.

Francis said: "Koine Greek and German (and Latin) have in common that they use cases".

This is helpful, and opens a venue for me to start researching into those languages. (We had Latin in high school, but none of us took it very seriously unfortunately LOL).

Thanks for the good input and blessings for you and your significant others.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894454#Comment_894454

Although it is not available in Logos (and probably will never be), I heartily recommend the following book if you want to learn to read German:

https://www.amazon.com/Reading-German-Course-Reference-Grammar/dp/0198700202

It really has a very good approach to help you understand the syntax and introduce concepts progressively, and of course, to get you reading.

It is not theological German but the texts are generally academic in nature. Combined with Ziefle's reader, this would allow one to make a lot of progress.

One of the greatest challenges (at least for me) with German is that prepositions are overworked. They are many of them to start with. Then they are used with different cases for different senses (as in Greek although there are fewer prepositions there). These prepositions are combined with verbs or among themselves (sometimes strings of three of them) for idiomatic senses. It seems like there is no end to learning the meaning of those!

The syntax takes some time to get used to. Separable verbs often send their prefixed prepositions to the end of the clause/sentence and when reading slow one has to get used to checking the end of the sentence to complete the sense of the verb. Passive/auxiliaries also take some getting using to, especially because to be or to have can be used where the other is expected by an English speaker. So you may get "is been" rather than "has been" although the sense is the same. Dodd's reader will get you fixed for the syntax.

For learning cases, tenses, etc., (and remembering what you learned!), I recommend Schaum's grammar as well. With its 420 exercises, it will get you to practice over and over until you remember stuff.

https://www.amazon.de/Schaums-Outline-German-Grammar-exercises/dp/0071615679

All the best with your learning and reading!

Hamilton Ramos

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894598#Comment_894598

God bless:

Thank you for the advice.

I have not been able to find the Reading German book in electronic form, do you know if is available for purchase in ebook, pdf or other such format?

The Schaums book is in kindle, so is perfect.

Blessings.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894619#Comment_894619

do you know if is available for purchase in ebook, pdf or other such format?

I don't know whether it is available electronically.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894625#Comment_894625

do you know if is available for purchase in ebook, pdf or other such format?

I don't know whether it is available electronically.

It doesn't appear to be so, and an "ePub" would be of little value for that title. A "PDF" or another format with a set layout would work, but you would have to read it on an appropriate device (i.e. iPad).

I don't have the $$$ to fork over for that title, but I wish I did. It looks good. It makes me want to revisit my HS German lessons. [:)]

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/894631#Comment_894631

Never know: you may find it at a public library or a university library if you have access to one.