NASB in Paragraph Format
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David Paul said:
Some of what is offered by Logos is "teaching to fish" stuff, but some, frequently at the behest of customers, is silver platter stuff. In the big picture, paragraphs in Bibles probably aren't a huge problem, but they are the beginning of a problem if people prefer them because it makes everything "easier". Click!
This is a good analogy. Could I offer another one? Some prefer to obtain the fish for their recipes at the local market and some at a specialty seafood market. Some prefer to buy the fish already skinned and boned, others prefer the whole fish. Some would even claim to have caught their own fish. But did they catch a fish in a stocked pond or did they catch it in the wild? In the end hunger is satisfied by fish that God created as a good gift to sustain humans that bear His image.
Yes there is a problem when a child is asked "where do eggs come from?" and the reply is "aisle 6 of the market". And there is a problem when God's transformative revelation of Himself and His will in the written Word is reduced to "where did this truth originate?" and the reply comes back "The paragraph (or non-paragraph) edition in Logos software of the NASB English translation of the NA23 text compiled from X manuscript which is in the Y family which is thought to have originated in tradition..."
Your taxonomy may be different, but consider the "supply" chain
A - Divine Author
B - Human Author
C - Scribal tradition
D - Manuscript family
E - Biblical Language
F - English
F - Translation
G - Digital or Print
H - Faithlife or Competitors
I - Libronix or Logos
J - Paragraph or Non-paragraph
K - Font, color, size, etc.
At what level does inspiration reside?
At what level does personal preference determine choice?
At what level does truth become error?
When are we tithing mint and dill or straining after gnats?
When does a fish cease to be a fish?
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Personally just preferance, don't over think or over spiritualize the paragraph over single verses disply.
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David Thomas said:
As I have followed the passionate opinions about verses and paragraphs in recent weeks, I have often recalled this anecdote - https://goodquestionblog.com/2013/02/26/0226/ Nobody is claiming any special sanctity of the verse. For some of us it is just a way we like to engage with the text when reading it. Your post is just another smug attempt at a put down of those who appreciate something different to you. When will you people lay off and start respecting differenr needs exist when it comes to the way we like to read - it is that simple, if you can't respect our differences then please stop the snide attacks. This post is totally inappropriate and irrelevant.
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
Personally just preferance, don't over think or over spiritualize the paragraph over single verses disply.
Which is exactly why those who prefer the paragraph format need to stop carry out their attacks on the views of those who have a personal preference to using a verse format at times in their reading process, get over it. FL has recognised the need for two options to meet all of their customers needs. I have never once questioned anyones preference for paragraph format. I have simply stood firm on expressing my desire to be able to keep what I paid to put on my bookshelf because I found it helpful to my reading process.
It is no wonder Christianity struggles to make in-roads into the society today when I look at the dogmatic self-righteous attitude of some of you towards people who are different to you over non-essential things like this topic. If you can't be accepting of your fellow Christians who find it helpful to read their bibles line by line at times, the may God forgive us all because we are not going to reach a World that despately needs Jesus Christ.
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Snd that is why since the beginning get both formsts goong/ this simply a preference issue.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Your post is just another smug attempt at a put down of those who appreciate something different to you. When will you people lay off and start respecting different needs exist when it comes to the way we like to read - it is that simple,
My post was neither smug nor lacking in respect. It is simply pointing out that the verse markers themselves were a human addition to the Biblical text and this addition did not happen until MANY years after the text originated.
As one user posted
David Paul said:First, this is all IMPOSED upon the text, not part of the text. While a few folks may realize this, many don't and won't.
I was just pointing out that not only are paragraph markers imposed, but versification is also.
I've already said that I liked the original verse by verse format
David Thomas said:I really liked the verse by verse layout when creating my own Hebrew/English Interlinear for study. So I get why some REALLY preferred the old verse by verse layout.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:if you can't respect our differences then please stop the snide attacks. This post is totally inappropriate and irrelevant.
I did not realize you had been ordained as the Forum police. (now THAT was snide!)
I did not attack any user, but am frustrated when the newer format is implied that it is "dumbed down" for the sake of readability, inferring that the older "less readable" format is superior.
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:a put down of those who appreciate something different to you
When I agree with other users that this is nothing more than a matter of preference, you seem to be the one who takes offense where none is intended. Disagreement with a position is not a "put down.".
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
need to stop carry out their attacks on the views of those who have a personal preference to using a verse format at times in their reading process, get over it
This cuts both ways!
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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David Thomas said:
I was just pointing out that not only are paragraph markers imposed, but versification is also.
David, this was the point of my post as well. But to go even further, punctuation is also imposed on the next. Generally, rules of English grammar are used in the translation of any Biblical text into English. David, I appreciate your posts on the forum. I, for one, have never noted any form of sarcasm or snarkiness from you.
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Randall Cue said:
David, this was the point of my post as well. But to go even further, punctuation is also imposed on the next. Generally, rules of English grammar are used in the translation of any Biblical text into English.
Which was a point also made as early as June 1 on this thread
Thank you for your affirmation. I have been examining myself to see if there is any hurtful way in me. (Ps 139:23-24).
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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I guess I came to the "discussion" late. Thanks for that reminder.
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Randall Cue said:
I guess I came to the "discussion" late. Thanks for that reminder.
Many have come later, so the reminder was a good one (in my opinion).
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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David Thomas said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
need to stop carry out their attacks on the views of those who have a personal preference to using a verse format at times in their reading process, get over it
This cuts both ways!
David I have never said anybody liking the paragraph format is wrong. I have never said anyone liking the paragraph format should have their paragraph format bibles which they have paid for removed from their library unlike a number of people one this thread who keep on harping about how inconvenient for them it will be to have one bible translation in two formats. Please check your facts in future. I am simply standing my ground. I have experienced and bullies like you in churches and pastors who have use their position to try and manipulate me into being their pawn in their mind games with other people and I will not let people like you walk over me on these forums. All I want is to simply be able to keep and use what I purchased in my library.
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David Thomas said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Your post is just another smug attempt at a put down of those who appreciate something different to you. When will you people lay off and start respecting different needs exist when it comes to the way we like to read - it is that simple,
My post was neither smug nor lacking in respect. It is simply pointing out that the verse markers themselves were a human addition to the Biblical text and this addition did not happen until MANY years after the text originated.
Your emoji was smug, and showed a total lack of respect to those who simply want a choice to be able to keep what they paid for in their libraries because they found that format helpful for reading. You can lie to yourself all you want but the fact is your post came across as very disrespectful.
David Thomas said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:if you can't respect our differences then please stop the snide attacks. This post is totally inappropriate and irrelevant.
I did not realize you had been ordained as the Forum police. (now THAT was snide!)
So now you admit your true colours David, which you earlier tried to deny.. I am not the forum police. I simply respond strongly to people like you because of the forum police over the years who have put me down more times that I can remember simply because I have a different view to them.. You are continuing in that vain and will not silence me if you continue on in this manner. I paid for the NASB95 in the format it originally came and you and no other customer has a right to say I should have that removed from my library.
David Thomas said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:a put down of those who appreciate something different to you
When I agree with other users that this is nothing more than a matter of preference, you seem to be the one who takes offense where none is intended. Disagreement with a position is not a "put down.".
David there is not simple disagreement going here. People are saying that those who like the verse by line format should have that removed form their libraries because its an inconvenience to them. I have never had an issue with anyone's preference.but whether you like it or not I will take offense when people want something taking out of my library I have already paid for and had use of for many years simply because its not their preference and they dont' want to be inconvenienced.
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Please stay on topic and follow the forum guidelines.
I would ask that interested parties take discussions related to preferences of translation and style to ChristianDiscourse.com.
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Alan Palmer (Faithlife) said:
Please stay on topic and follow the forum guidelines.
I would ask that interested parties take discussions related to preferences of translation and style to ChristianDiscourse.com.
Please hurry and release the line verse book- these guys have obviously gone loonie toons!
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Alan FL caused this by removing something from peoples libraries that they had purchased and did it without their permission. FL have agreed to correct their error and put that resource back.
If someone continues to tell me I have they have a right to ask for something to be removed from my library because it is not their preference they are acting outside of the forum guidelines.
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Whyndell Grizzard said:Alan Palmer (Faithlife) said:
Please stay on topic and follow the forum guidelines.
I would ask that interested parties take discussions related to preferences of translation and style to ChristianDiscourse.com.
Please hurry and release the line verse book- these guys have obviously gone loonie toons!
Excuse me Whyndell you forget quickly your big rant on these forums when FL has done the wrong thing by you. I was about the only person who stood up for your right to express your view. Pleas respect the rights of others to express their view.
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Alan Palmer (Faithlife) said:
Please stay on topic and follow the forum guidelines.
I would ask that interested parties take discussions related to preferences of translation and style to ChristianDiscourse.com.
Can we please have this thread locked. I believe everyone has had a chance to share their thoughts on the subject. And as far as I can tell everyone is in extremely violent agreement on the subject. We all want both versions. Everyone wants the line-by-line version, formatted perfectly. Everyone wants the paragraph version, formatted perfectly. Everyone agrees the current resource should not have been released in the manner it was. There has been some debate on the manner of the solution, but everyone wants exactly the same solution: both formats, perfectly formatted. The solution has been decided on and is on the way. There is nothing else that needs to be said here.
With all respect to everyone. If you find this post (or any other post of mine) is offensive or anything less than respectful then I'm sorry. It's my failure to communicate and not ever my intention at all.
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