Confusion in Psalms

I don't think the following is a Typo, rather an index or data error. The target reference for Ps 8:3 corresponds with the correct verse in BHS/WHM 4.2. But, none of the bibles I set as preferred bible display the correct verse.

As Preferred Bible

LLS:1.0.630
2003-12-24T01:51:00Z
afrikaan.lbxlls

The Verse that popup for the above bible translation should be Ps 8:3 not 8:4

As Preferred Bible

LLS:1.0.710
2017-02-07T19:28:51Z
ESV.logos4

RVI:ESVNT
2017-02-07T19:17:05Z
ESVNT.lbsrvi

RVI:ESVOT
2017-02-07T19:17:05Z
ESVOT.lbsrvi

The Verse that popup from this bible translation should be Ps 8:2 not 8:3

As Preferred Bible

LLS:1.0.197
2016-10-20T00:00:00Z
BHSWTS42.lbxlls

The Verse that popup from this bible should be Ps 8:3 not 8:4

If I didn't know why this happened I wouldn't have understood why this verse is referenced and how to correct it. This problem manifests regularly with references to Psalms. Maybe I'm missing something?

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Comments

Kenneth Neighoff

One needs to remember that the Hebrew text counts the superscript as the first verse of the text, while the English does not. That is reflected in the Hebrew text in your screen shot. I wonder if the Afrikaan translation you show in your screen shot follows the Hebrew verse numbering scheme.

Pieter J.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900747#Comment_900747

The AFRIKAAN resource follow the Hebrew numbering scheme. The problem is that nothing gave the correct bibletext. I expected at least the Hebrew to be correct. Which bible is the base for the reference scheme? I assume that there should be a versemap or something to align verses in all translations?

Pieter J.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900749#Comment_900749

Is this correct:

Each resource in logos was referenced by the authors using a preferred bible of their choice. I need to set that bible as my preferred bible to see the correct text in the popup.

How do I know which Bible to use for a given resource?

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900749#Comment_900749

The problem is that nothing gave the correct bibletext.

I don't understand what you mean. You have Ps 8:3 and at least in the ESV and BHW it is the correct corresponding verse text that is being displayed. Logos adjusts automatically and I assume that it uses the English Bible versification as its basis. Is your version of Logos using English or Afrikaan as localisation?

Todd Phillips

I don't think the following is a Typo, rather an index or data error.

The problem IS that it is a typo. The reference (Ps. 8:3) in the CWSD:NT is wrong and should be Ps. 8:2. The ESV shows the correct reference:

Pieter J.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900757#Comment_900757

Localization is English. The verse is correct but the Bible Text itself incorrect.

I'll explain a little deeper:

The following is quoted from WSNTDICT.

(I) Particularly (Matt. 21:16, “out of the mouth of babes and sucklings” [a.t.], quoted from Ps. 8:3; see 1 Cor. 13:11).

When hovering over Ps. 8:3,

I expect Logos to popup ESV 8:2 - "Out of the mouth of babies and infants, you have established strength because of your foes, to still the enemy and the avenger."

And not ESV Ps 8:3 - "When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,"

I expect the Hebrew Ps 8:3 מִפִּ֤י עֽוֹלְלִ֨ים׀ וְֽיֹנְקִים֮ יִסַּ֪דְתָּ֫ עֹ֥ז לְמַ֥עַן צוֹרְרֶ֑יךָ לְהַשְׁבִּ֥ית א֝וֹיֵ֗ב וּמִתְנַקֵּֽם׃

and not Ps 8:4 כִּֽי־אֶרְאֶ֣ה שָׁ֭מֶיךָ מַעֲשֵׂ֣י אֶצְבְּעֹתֶ֑יךָ יָרֵ֥חַ וְ֝כוֹכָבִ֗ים אֲשֶׁ֣ר כּוֹנָֽנְתָּה׃

Pieter J.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900758#Comment_900758

When using ESV as preferred bible and check the cited text I get the wrong Bible Text:

The popup should read:

      Out of the mouth of babies and infants,
                  you have established strength because of your foes,
      to still the enemy and the avenger.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900763#Comment_900763

When using ESV as preferred bible and check the cited text I get the wrong Bible Text:

The popup should read:

      Out of the mouth of babies and infants,
                  you have established strength because of your foes,
      to still the enemy and the avenger.

42

I think this is a mis-tagging in the ESV. The reference type is "Bible (LXX-R)", but it should not be.

I think it was mistakenly tagged that way because of the "(GK.)" after the reference. But the the ESV explanation of features indicates that GK only means:

The notations “(Heb.)” and “(Gk.)” indicate that the reference is clearer in Hebrew or Greek than in English. “(Gk.)” in New Testament citations of the Old Testament indicates that the reference is most clear in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament.

It does not indicate that a difference verse number scheme is being used (which would be extremely confusing for most readers if it actually did). The ESV cross-references should all English Bible verse numbers, as should the references in the WSNTDICT, since it is an English reference book.

So I think there are two separate resource issues here:

A incorrect reference in the Word Study Dictionary,
and an incorrect tag in the ESV.

Kyle G. Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900771#Comment_900771

A couple of notes:

The reference to Ps. 8:3 in The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament is incorrect in that we should have tagged the reference following a Hebrew verse map. Had we have done that, the reference would have resolved correctly if you had the ESV prioritized.
However: Based on my quick audit of the Word Study Dictionary they are internally inconsistent in their preference of verse maps. Outside of explicitly identified LXX references there is no way to predict what verse map the author(s) are following. In well-edited books this is usually explicit or at the very least consistent and predictable. Unfortunately that is not the case here.
We'll need to update the cross references in the ESV. Those clearly should be following the ESV verse map.

Pieter J.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900776#Comment_900776

I appreciate the insight. If I understand correctly, points 1 and 3 is possible to fix, but point 2 is a much more complicated process. Should we as users report these reference problems as Typo's and keep on reporting every instance of this particular issue or is there another way that we can assist in resolving them?

Kyle G. Anderson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/900809#Comment_900809

I appreciate the insight. If I understand correctly, points 1 and 3 is possible to fix, but point 2 is a much more complicated process. Should we as users report these reference problems as Typo's and keep on reporting every instance of this particular issue or is there another way that we can assist in resolving them?

Unfortunately #1 and #2 are interrelated. If a resource is consistently edited (e.g. the ESV) and we tag the Psalms incorrectly it can be straightforward for us to update but in cases like this dictionary where it is not consistently edited, typo reports are vital.