Sell me some books!
You tried it in the Logos app, but unfortunately, did a really halfhearted job. The web app is covered with opportunity to sell me stuff, books and features. But it needs to be really really smart and correct. In my face but with minty fresh breath and not in my way. Every search could suggest resources I don't own. Every guide. Topic guide, Fact book curated list of suggestions. Mine user generated metadata to make searches more accurate. Let me pay-per-view articles in big dictionaries, encyclopedia. Or a commentary, or part of a commentary.
The Library if redone with faceted browser could be like browsing the Logos store. One click could allow me to browse my library or the entire Logos library using the criteria defined. With IMPROVED previews.
Sell us useful stuff. Ads and selling stuff can be horribly annoying if done wrong, but if done correctly it could really help me find the most useful sources of information, whether it's a resource I own or one I didn't know I needed to buy. Every part of the app should be evaluated for ways it can sell us something useful in a way that is good for you and for us.
Comments
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Randy W. Sims said:
not in my way
So the "Chat with a Logos expert" would be out of the question? [;)]
Randy W. Sims said:suggest resources I don't own
I'd definitely be interested in some useful recommendations (based on what I'm doing and what I don't own) that would benefit my study.
Being able to try out a resource (e.g., a lexicon or Bible dictionary) would be useful, without having to buy it first to see if it is helpful. For example, I still don't own HALOT, and have no idea how it compares with what I already own.
As long as FL is mindful of web app screen real estate, and doesn't put banner ads everywhere, I wouldn't mind clicking through some unobtrusive link to learn more about a resource or opportunity.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Pleaee give the option to turn off getting these sort of intrusions into our time in God's word if we do not desire them.
I own extended feature set, I am a Logos Now subscriber. I own a signifant sized library. I have a customer service rep who contacts me, I view the web store when I want to purchase something, I see advertisements on these forums and the blogs and FL groups as well as posts by users alerting of the latest sale or what they perceive as good buy. If I want to buy something already have plenty of options and sources of advice to turn to without having every facet of my use of this software being turned into an advertising opportunity.
I have over many years and continue to regularly spend money with this company. I think fair is fair and there has to be a clear line in the sand. I don't need FL intruding into my bible study time alone with God. There has to be some time and place where we can be free of someone trying to sell us something, particularly when we are digging into God's Word.
Randy W. Sims said:You tried it in the Logos app, but unfortunately, did a really halfhearted job. The web app is covered with opportunity to sell me stuff, books and features. But it needs to be really really smart and correct. In my face but with minty fresh breath and not in my way. Every search could suggest resources I don't own. Every guide. Topic guide, Fact book curated list of suggestions. Mine user generated metadata to make searches more accurate. Let me pay-per-view articles in big dictionaries, encyclopedia. Or a commentary, or part of a commentary.
The Library if redone with faceted browser could be like browsing the Logos store. One click could allow me to browse my library or the entire Logos library using the criteria defined. With IMPROVED previews.
Sell us useful stuff. Ads and selling stuff can be horribly annoying if done wrong, but if done correctly it could really help me find the most useful sources of information, whether it's a resource I own or one I didn't know I needed to buy. Every part of the app should be evaluated for ways it can sell us something useful in a way that is good for you and for us.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Pleaee give the option to turn off getting these sort of intrusions into our time in God's word if we do not desire them.
Definitely a reasonable option. Customers should be able to opt out of what appears in the web app (or they'd come up with a way to block the advertising).
Disciple of Christ (doc) said:I own a signifant sized library.
Some of us don't, and some of us (especially newer customers) have no idea what we're missing that would be beneficial.
The first purchase I made was L6 P/C Starter. As you'd know, it came with no tools or features. I didn't understand much about Logos at the time, and made a few purchasing errors along the way that worked out in FL's favor.
A lot of web users might be coming to Logos from Basic, and not really know what they'd have to buy to use certain features or tools or interactives. The desktop already lets you know which features are locked. There's no reason why the web app couldn't have that parity.
I think we all need some guidance at some time, and I wouldn't mind it appearing in their products.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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PetahChristian said:
I think we all need some guidance at some time, and I wouldn't mind it appearing in their products.
[Y]
And that's fine if you or Randy want it I'm just saying to FL don't enforce it on everyone because we don't all want it.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:PetahChristian said:
I think we all need some guidance at some time, and I wouldn't mind it appearing in their products.
And that's fine if you or Randy want it I'm just saying to FL don't enforce it on everyone because we don't all want it.
I agree, doc. Keep the money changers outside the Temple (using an option; some prefer convenience).
But I felt hypocritical, reading the free Bible magazine from Logos, and skipping the articles .. wow, these adverts are great!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Pleaee give the option to turn off getting these sort of intrusions into our time in God's word if we do not desire them.
I own extended feature set, I am a Logos Now subscriber. I own a signifant sized library. I have a customer service rep who contacts me, I view the web store when I want to purchase something, I see advertisements on these forums and the blogs and FL groups as well as posts by users alerting of the latest sale or what they perceive as good buy. If I want to buy something already have plenty of options and sources of advice to turn to without having every facet of my use of this software being turned into an advertising opportunity.
What I have in mind is nothing like advertisements. It's about discovery and access. It's just as advantageous to us as it is to Faithlife. And it should involve choice. For example, your doing an Everything search and getting poor results, so you flip a switch and search the text of Faithlife's entire catalog using your search criteria and get back results ranked in tandem with your library, maybe highlighted a little different to let you know it's a catalog item. Or you go to Factbook and type in something and get no results in your library, but scrolling down to the Bookstore you can browse matching results from the entire catalog of titles. Or you're browsing the fancy new imaginary faceted Library browser and want to go shopping, click a button and browse the store from within the app. But better.
Nothing like Advertisements. Just complete searchable access to the entire catalog. I have 17k resources. I have books on most things but not everything. And sometimes, maybe many times there are better ones out there that I don't know about or don't find out about until I've spun my wheels for a long time. This is beneficial to everyone. I have a hard time seeing the downside.
Again, just to be clear. I do not expect advertisements of any kind for paid users of the web app. I do however think there will be and should be for Basic users. My suggestion (not really mine as I think much of it has been said before) is all about discovery and access. Of course you should be able to choose when the entire catalog is searched. When I mentioned in my OP that it should be in your face I just meant in counterpoint to the previous attempt at selling books, the Bookstore, which is so out of the way most people don't know it's there or forget about it.
I'm not good at communicating ideas, but I hope that makes it sound a little more palatable.
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I'm personally averse to banner ads and other junk adverts. if there was a drop down portion of a guide or tool that maybe showed how many hits a book or resource had for a search it would help me choose books that are useful to a search as opposed to a book that has little "logos added value."
With 40,000+ resources to purchase from, finding resources that are nore than bloat is helpful. With limited dollars, making smarter purchases is what I want to do, and that's what the couple sales reps I've dealt with had helped me with - choosing the right monographs and commentary volumes that fit my particular needs At the moment without trying to oversell me. The march madness sales years back did that for me as well, it introduced me to scholars that we new to me. Credible authors and their works that I had not been aware of. something like that is what I would find helpful, as long as it is not intrusive.
MBPro'12 / i5 / 8GB // 3.0 Scholars (Purple) / L6 & L7 Platinum, M&E Platinum, Anglican Bronze, P&C Silver / L8 Platinum, Academic Pro
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Richard Villanueva said:
Iif there was a drop down portion of a guide or tool that maybe showed how many hits a book or resource had for a search it would help me choose books that are useful to a search as opposed to a book that has little "logos added value.
I'm with Richard on this one. It would be awesome if a guide or tool would have a section of "hits in resources you don't own". But every other option (like Banners, PopUps, Links in text and search results) I can think of might be an intrusion into my time with God's word or at least concentrated prep time.
user since Logos 4
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Disciple of Christ (doc) said:
Pleaee give the option to turn off getting these sort of intrusions into our time in God's word if we do not desire them.
What you are looking for already exists DoC it is called AdBlock...
Carpe verbum.
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Adbloc won't work in the scenario we are discussing here. It's not ad banners Randy or I are talking about, but I do use it. Thanks Liam.
LMAM said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:Pleaee give the option to turn off getting these sort of intrusions into our time in God's word if we do not desire them.
What you are looking for already exists DoC it is called AdBlock...
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Randy I know what you meant, I respect you see it as a 'feature'. Personally I don't. For me there is a time for being in the marketplace and a time not to be in the marketplace.
Some people when they walk into a shop want to have a sales assistant all over them. I am the sort of person who detests that. And to me what you want as a feature I would see as like a sales person being all over me but with a much bigger problem for me, it would be like then turning up at my home trying to sell me a set of encyclopedias. For when I use Logos I don't see it as a visit to the store, but me in my home not expecting a sales person to turn up besides me at my desk.
All I am asking is if such a feature existed the ability to put a do not disturb sign on my door and have that respected.
Randy W. Sims said:Disciple of Christ (doc) said:Pleaee give the option to turn off getting these sort of intrusions into our time in God's word if we do not desire them.
I own extended feature set, I am a Logos Now subscriber. I own a signifant sized library. I have a customer service rep who contacts me, I view the web store when I want to purchase something, I see advertisements on these forums and the blogs and FL groups as well as posts by users alerting of the latest sale or what they perceive as good buy. If I want to buy something already have plenty of options and sources of advice to turn to without having every facet of my use of this software being turned into an advertising opportunity.
What I have in mind is nothing like advertisements. It's about discovery and access. It's just as advantageous to us as it is to Faithlife. And it should involve choice. For example, your doing an Everything search and getting poor results, so you flip a switch and search the text of Faithlife's entire catalog using your search criteria and get back results ranked in tandem with your library, maybe highlighted a little different to let you know it's a catalog item. Or you go to Factbook and type in something and get no results in your library, but scrolling down to the Bookstore you can browse matching results from the entire catalog of titles. Or you're browsing the fancy new imaginary faceted Library browser and want to go shopping, click a button and browse the store from within the app. But better.
Nothing like Advertisements. Just complete searchable access to the entire catalog. I have 17k resources. I have books on most things but not everything. And sometimes, maybe many times there are better ones out there that I don't know about or don't find out about until I've spun my wheels for a long time. This is beneficial to everyone. I have a hard time seeing the downside.
Again, just to be clear. I do not expect advertisements of any kind for paid users of the web app. I do however think there will be and should be for Basic users. My suggestion (not really mine as I think much of it has been said before) is all about discovery and access. Of course you should be able to choose when the entire catalog is searched. When I mentioned in my OP that it should be in your face I just meant in counterpoint to the previous attempt at selling books, the Bookstore, which is so out of the way most people don't know it's there or forget about it.
I'm not good at communicating ideas, but I hope that makes it sound a little more palatable.
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Well, initially I thought Randy's title would be a disaster.
And doc's thinking IS one major reason I use Libby more than L7. I want to be left alone. I don't need non-optional intrusive let-me-help-you.
But I could see some sort of in-app on-line search, like the concordance, with links to pop over to the store.
But I can also see Logos marketing quickly abusing it (convenience, you know).
I'd probably much prefer a search within the store (where Amazon currently finds books a lot better than Logos).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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