New Windows option in 7.9 Beta 1 to make Logos faster

In our efforts to improve the performance speed of the application we have added a new option that needs to be manually applied. This process will need to be repeated each time a new version of the application is installed.

Updated to reflect changes made in 7.9 RC 1

To run the new performance command line:

1. Run a Command Prompt for `[logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen`

2. Click on Yes for changes to be made on the pop-up

To undo this process:

1. Run a Command Prompt for `[logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /unngen`

2. Click on Yes for changes to be made on the pop-up

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OK, being the brave one... (will probably regret this)...

- I didn't get the UAC message in step 2 (probably because I'm running an admin account)

- How do I know if this is done? The ngen seems to be stuck on a certain line for a long time. Is this normal? OK ngen now closes itself down automatically after about 5 minutes.

- Note also the warning messages about Methods Not Found in the middle, see attached file

- Logos 7.9 beta 1 on Windows 10. Logos was open the whole time while ngen ran... should I have closed it?

- Should I restart Logos? Scared to close it down for fear it may not start again...

- If it is safe to shut down Logos and restart (should I restart Windows also?), where do I look for the performance improvements?

See attached file of the ngen text...1104.Logos7.9beta1ngen.txt

Thanks,

Peter

Andrew Batishko

- I didn't get the UAC message in step 2 (probably because I'm running an admin account)

That sounds pretty plausible.

- How do I know if this is done? The ngen seems to be stuck on a certain line for a long time. Is this normal? OK ngen now closes itself down automatically after about 5 minutes.

This all sounds normal. There won't be anything special when the process finishes, so it sounds like it should have worked just fine.

- Note also the warning messages about Methods Not Found in the middle, see attached file

This is not a problem.

- Logos 7.9 beta 1 on Windows 10. Logos was open the whole time while ngen ran... should I have closed it?

It doesn't matter if Logos was running while ngen ran.

- Should I restart Logos? Scared to close it down for fear it may not start again...

- If it is safe to shut down Logos and restart (should I restart Windows also?)?

Yes. You can restart Logos. There is no need to restart Windows. If you run into a problem, you can use the process listed above to remove the optimization.

where do I look for the performance improvements?

You should see improvements in startup time plus the first time you access any particular feature of the application.

To help you feel a little more comfortable with what's happening... The only change we've made to our application here is to add a command-line parameter that allows you to take advantage of a feature provided by Microsoft to provide post-installation performance improvements. All of the real work is done by a tool from Microsoft which was already available on your system. You could have manually used this tool at any point in the past to see the same performance gains.

A slightly more technical explanation is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Image_Generator

Thank you Andrew!

This brave soul is very happy! It's like I got a turbo-upgraded new computer! Startup time is 25 seconds from click on icon to fully functional, usable Logos. Didn't time it before, I think startup was close to 1 minute previously. Everything is so much more responsive! It is nothing short of miraculous and amazing! I even ran a fuzzy search under the Bible search and it is so much faster.

The only problem I have encountered so far is with the Bible Word Study guide. When I opened it from the menu, it carried over a Hebrew word from my previous search. I tried to type in "g:pistis" but each letter took several seconds to appear. Eventually it ran the search and the results came back very fast. Even though the response time here is unacceptably slow, it is already an improvement over before I restarted Logos after I ran ngen. Then each letter took maybe 20 seconds to pop up and was utterly unusable. That's why I was scared to restart Logos. Can you please look into this slowness issue?

Thanks very much! Once this approach is fully tested by other users, I assume this will be built into future installation processes to run automatically?

Great work (FL and MS)!

Peter

EDIT: P.S. The auto-populate of text entry boxes seem extremely slow. E.g. If I type in "esv" or "niv" in the Command Box, the auto-populate spins for 10-15 seconds before populating.

Andrew Batishko

Glad to hear that this is working out really well for you!

The only problem I have encountered so far is with the Bible Word Study guide. When I opened it from the menu, it carried over a Hebrew word from my previous search. I tried to type in "g:pistis" but each letter took several seconds to appear. Eventually it ran the search and the results came back very fast. Even though the response time here is unacceptably slow, it is already an improvement over before I restarted Logos after I ran ngen. Then each letter took maybe 20 seconds to pop up and was utterly unusable. That's why I was scared to restart Logos. Can you please look into this slowness issue?

This is an unrelated issue. I recommend starting a new thread if you can recreate the problem. You will probably want to submit profiling logs as detailed here: https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Windows_Profiler_Utility

Thanks very much! Once this approach is fully tested by other users, I assume this will be built into future installation processes to run automatically?

We're not entirely sure yet how this will be implemented generally. It can't be done completely automatically, since it requires elevation, and it has to happen after every time a new version is installed. Assuming that your experience is generally shared by others, we'll be taking a look at the best way to integrate this more cleanly.

(‾◡◝)

[Y] Noticeably faster loading times.

From Logos.log(s):

- without ngen: "Info StartupUtility Finished startup at 6937ms"

- with ngen: "Info StartupUtility Finished startup at 4024ms" 2913ms faster ---> 42%

TCBlack

In our efforts to improve the performance speed of the application we have added a new option that needs to be manually applied. This process will need to be repeated each time a new version of the application is installed.

To run the new performance command line:

1. Run a Command Prompt for `[logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen`

Well it certainly took awhile to compile, but not horribly so.

It's hard to say if the observable start up time was really faster, only because I had Logos running before I did this, which I assume left certain DLL's etc in ram, second startup is always faster anyway, and it did seem at least that fast.

I have not noticed anything amiss. But I'll continue to pay attention.

Robert M. Warren

I don't look at logs, but it seems significantly faster at startup. (I rebooted in case there is some caching effect.) Changing layouts seems faster, too. This machine has 16GB and an SSD. I'll get a better idea when I try it on a slower computer.

Mark Smith

I installed it.

Can you explain a little about what this is doing that is supposed to speed things up?

Adam Olean

In our efforts to improve the performance speed of the application we have added a new option that needs to be manually applied. This process will need to be repeated each time a new version of the application is installed.

To run the new performance command line:

1. Run a Command Prompt for `[logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen`

Is the result of this new performance command line identical to running "ngen install" on Logos.exe (i.e., the assemblyPath)?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/tools/ngen-exe-native-image-generator

Dave Hooton

Can you explain a little about what this is doing that is supposed to speed things up?

Andrew supplied this link, above.

Andrew Batishko

Is the result of this new performance command line identical to running "ngen install" on Logos.exe (i.e., the assemblyPath)?

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/tools/ngen-exe-native-image-generator

That's correct.

Dave Hooton

Noticeably faster loading times.

From Logos logs:

- without ngen: "Info StartupUtility Finished startup" 12.9s-15.9s. Avg. 14.2s

- with ngen: "Info StartupUtility Finished startup" 9.9s-11.5s. Avg. 10.5s

There is less lag opening my ESV tab with one Search VF.

EDIT: on v7.7 time to finish startup approx. 24s. Overall performance improvement is > 50% on a hard drive.

Jonathan Pitts

Don't forget, you can put the command line ([logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen) into a text file and save it as Filename.cmd. Double clicking on that file should run the installer when you need to do it for the next version of Logos.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

Don't forget, you can put the command line ([logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen) into a text file and save it as Filename.cmd. Double clicking on that file should run the installer when you need to do it for the next version of Logos.

Yes [:)] , the old DOS is still needed and required. Faithlife probably can integrate a subroutine that would partially automate the process in the future.

James Taylor

you can put the command line ([logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen) into a text file and save it as Filename.cmd. Double clicking on that file should run the installer when you need to do it

thanks for the shortcut

James Taylor

save it as Filename.cmd

how did you accomplish this? when I attempt it says it an invalid name...

Donnie Hale

It doesn't matter if Logos was running while ngen ran.

If this is the case, I'm not sure why you're forcing users to open a command prompt and run a command line.

Pleased with the continued performance work... A bit surprised that Logos hasn't been ngen'd all along...

Donnie

TCBlack

save it as Filename.cmd

how did you accomplish this? when I attempt it says it an invalid name...

You're trying to save it with the wrong name. When you save it save it as LOGOSNGEN.CMD

That should do it. As it stands your filename has slashes and such that means it's a path.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

save it as Filename.cmd

how did you accomplish this? when I attempt it says it an invalid name...

Hi James; Jonathan Pitts suggested that. You create a text file with the original command line as suggested by Faithlife, then save it with a cmd extension. TCBlack answered below.

Kevin A. Purcell

In our efforts to improve the performance speed of the application we have added a new option that needs to be manually applied. This process will need to be repeated each time a new version of the application is installed.

To run the new performance command line:

1. Run a Command Prompt for `[logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /ngen`

2. Click on Yes for changes to be made on the pop-up

Another window will pop-up and run some processes. It will look something like this:

To undo this process:

1. Run a Command Prompt for `[logosinstallpath]\Logos.exe /unngen`

2. Click on Yes for changes to be made on the pop-up

I'm seeing nothing like the results shown above. First, I don't get a pop up of any kind and I see nothing in Command Prompt. After hitting enter it just shows C:\Users\kevin>

Am I doing it wrong?

(‾◡◝)

Here is the way I run ngen:

1) When I run CMD I right click on the shortcut and select "Run as administrator"

2) My User Account Control settings are completely off which I believe eliminates the "Do you want to allow this app to make changes to your device?" prompt. Depending on how your UAC settings are configured, you may or may not get the prompt.

3)The following command is pasted into the command prompt and then executed:

C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework64\v4.0.30319\ngen.exe install C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\Logos\System\Logos.exe

- Assumes you are using a 64 bit version of Windows

- Assumes you will insert the proper user name from your computer

- Can be run from any folder location in the Command prompt

As I mentioned on the first page of this thread, I registered a 42% improvement in startup speed (i7 5960X oc'd to 4.2 GHz, 32 GB DDR4 ram, Samsung 960 Pro ssd (1TB), EVGA Nvidia 970). Everything else certainly feels snappier but I cannot quantify it.

Hope this helps.

Paul Strickert

I've noticed a speedier response time in some areas. One area that still astounds me for its sluggishness is opening a Bible. I've got a shortcut to my preferred Bible on the top of the screen. When I click it, it takes a good 3 seconds for the Bible to open. Why is it not instantaneous?

Dave Hooton

After hitting enter it just shows C:\Users\kevin>

After the > type C:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local\Logos\Logos.exe /ngen

1. this is the default path. It could be totally different for a custom installation e.g. E:\Logos\Logos.exe /ngen

2. Your Logos folder name could be Logos4 or Logos5 (check C:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local for the name)

Mark Barnes

I've noticed a speedier response time in some areas. One area that still astounds me for its sluggishness is opening a Bible. I've got a shortcut to my preferred Bible on the top of the screen. When I click it, it takes a good 3 seconds for the Bible to open. Why is it not instantaneous?

Probably because of visual filters.

Kevin A. Purcell

After hitting enter it just shows C:\Users\kevin>

After the > type C:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local\Logos\Logos.exe /ngen

1. this is the default path. It could be totally different for a custom installation e.g. E:\Logos\Logos.exe /ngen

2. Your Logos folder name could be Logos4 or Logos5 (check C:\Users\kevin\AppData\Local for the name)

Thanks Dave. I did check to ensure that Logos.exe is in the default location. I know I didn't install it in a special place upon installation, but double checked and it was there but also in the subfolder labelled System. So I ran it on both locations.

Donnie Hale

2) My User Account Control settings are completely off which I believe eliminates the "Do you want to allow this app to make changes to your device?" prompt.

FYI: You may want to read point #13 on this page: https://decentsecurity.com/#/holiday-tasks/

Donnie

(‾◡◝)

FYI: You may want to read point #13 on this page: https://decentsecurity.com/#/holiday-tasks/

Donnie

Thanks, Donnie, but I prefer to live 'dangerously' rather than have to listen to 6378.UAC Repeat.mp3 all day long. [;)]

George T. Kelley

I have Logos installed on Drive D (D:\Program Files (86)\Logos\Logos.exe) [I know that is not an 86x] and I got an error message <'D:\Program' is not recognized as an internal or external Command, operable program or batch file.>

GeorgeT

Jonathan Pitts

I have Logos installed on Drive D (D:\Program Files (86)\Logos\Logos.exe) [I know that is not an 86x] and I got an error message <'D:\Program' is not recognized as an internal or external Command, operable program or batch file.>

GeorgeT

Looks like you might be missing the quotation marks around the path. The system is only reading the path up to the first space.

Adam Olean

I have Logos installed on Drive D (D:\Program Files (86)\Logos\Logos.exe) [I know that is not an 86x] and I got an error message <'D:\Program' is not recognized as an internal or external Command, operable program or batch file.>

GeorgeT

Looks like you might be missing the quotation marks around the path. The system is only reading the path up to the first space.

I got that error once when I accidently mistyped the file path. In my case, I accidently omitted the Logos directory and skipped right to Logos.exe. That got me thinking about the textual criticism and the lives and scribal habits of ancient scribes!

Tom Marcus

I was able to apply the new performance command. Thanks for the easy instructions.

However, the /ngen command resulted in 40 second startup times, which seemed about the same as before. I used the /unngen command and started getting 12 second startup times. I went back to applying the /ngen command and it slowed down to 40 seconds startup again. I repeated the steps a couple of times and the best results for me are after the /unngen command.

The 12 second startup is much faster than I have ever had before. Any idea why it seems to work faster with the /unngen command?

Either way, I am very happy that I found this. I only spent 15 minutes on this and it will save me over two hours a year, and I will have great joy every time I startup Logos

Andrew Batishko

I was able to apply the new performance command. Thanks for the easy instructions.

However, the /ngen command resulted in 40 second startup times, which seemed about the same as before. I used the /unngen command and started getting 12 second startup times. I went back to applying the /ngen command and it slowed down to 40 seconds startup again. I repeated the steps a couple of times and the best results for me are after the /unngen command.

The 12 second startup is much faster than I have ever had before. Any idea why it seems to work faster with the /unngen command?

Either way, I am very happy that I found this. I only spent 15 minutes on this and it will save me over two hours a year, and I will have great joy every time I startup Logos

From your description, I'd guess that you ran it with the /ngen command once and noted the startup time. Then you ran it again with the /unngen command and noted the time. However, when you run it with the command, it doesn't actually take effect until the next time you start the application (assuming you give it 30 seconds or so for it to finish up the preparation work it does in the background).

Tom Marcus

Could be. However, I am still getting the faster results 24 hours later. The last command I ran was the /unngen command. Maybe I will try the /ngen command again and wait 24 hours to see what results I get.

Either way, something happened to dramatically improve my start up times.