Learning Hebrew and Greek

Hey folks, I was just curious if anyone has taken the biblical languages course track through biblemesh.com? I am debating if I should go this route or not. As it seems it may be a good route for someone like me wanting to learn the original languages of Hebrew and Greek. It is equivalent to two years in both. Any feedback would be great!

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

bump...any advice or help?

1) Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic are the ONLY languages that God chose to communicate His inspired word.

The orthodox doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture has always been restricted to the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts as penned by the Biblical writers (or their scribes), not to copies or translations of these documents. Reading the original Biblical languages is like hearing the voice in person, as opposed to listening through a distorted, cracking and hissing AM radio station.

2) The single, most important, starting point for biblical exegesis is grammar.

Our primary concern must be with the grammar of the original language, not the English translation, and for this we need to know the original Biblical language. A text simply CANNOT mean what the grammar of that text does not support.

3) Knowing Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek unveils the interpretive options of a given text—and assists in properly adjudicating among them.

In the Greek language the genitive case alone has over thirty different grammatical functions, of which translators must choose only one in any given occurrence; English readers frequently have little clue what possibilities the translators rejected.

4) Knowing Biblical Hebrew and Greek gives the interpreter useable access to invaluable exegetical tools

Certain passages of Scripture have multiple possibilities for meaning. Some translations footnote (usually one of) the grammatical options, but many do not. When, say the King James Version differs from the New International Version, how will you determine which of them gives the best sense? "Gut feeling?" "Holy Spirit Woosh?" Urim and Thummim? For this, readers need a knowledge of the Biblical languages and access to grammars, lexica, and scholarly commentaries that deal directly with the original text, little of which will make any sense to those unschooled in Biblical languages.

5) Reading the text in the original Biblical languages develops and reinforces a careful, detailed hermeneutical approach.

Having to establish the precise use of a case or mood or voice forces the interpreter to consider all the various possibilities of meaning inherent in the language of the text. When it comes to hermeneutics, attention to detail often brings a huge exegetical dividend from this investment.

6) Reading the Biblical text in the original Hebrew or Greek languages also identifies the authors' emphases.

Here we think specifically of rhetorical features, such as alliteration, assonance, poetic structure, chiasm, marked/unmarked word order, and the like, most of which are completely lost in translation—but all of which are clearly discernable to those schooled in the Biblical languages.

7) Learning the Biblical languages is a crucial antidote to hermeneutical arrogance.

Grappling with texts in their original Biblical language repeatedly calls our preconceived notions about the meaning of these texts to account; it checks unfounded certainty and preformed conclusions.

I was just curious if anyone has taken the biblical languages course track through biblemesh.com?

If someone had I'm sure they would comment, but this forum is strictly for advice related to Faithlife's bible software (Logos, Verbum..).

So, why do you want to learn e.g. to read and translate? For what purpose e.g. private, in connection with other theological courses?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915312#Comment_915312

It is incredibly hard to learn a language without human help (I studied Greek in college and seminary, studied an unwritten language in Africa, etc.). If at all possible, link up with someone (a pastor perhaps) who can help you navigate the process. I never studied Hebrew, but if I were to try to study Greek on my own, I would use Mounce's resources. Logos has them available...if you use Mounce for Greek you can get video lectures, you'll be using a standard first year textbook, and there are additional tools you can also get like vocab cards, etc. It will not be easy, but if you are extremely motivated and faithful (daily)...you can do it. Just don't think it will be easy or quick. Learning a language takes time. Learning it well will probably take years.

BibleMesh is legit. More up to date linguistically than Mounce and really any first-year text I know. If you're going to do it alone in a grammatical-translation approach, I'd encourage BibleMesh about above anything.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915355#Comment_915355

Learning it well will probably take years.

The usual estimation is 10 years to master a biblical language

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915399#Comment_915399

Wow!

I went to their website and for the 5 courses for the Greek track is 199.00 ea. or $1,000.00 for all 5, but they give you a 236.00 discount is you sign up for all 5 courses

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915419#Comment_915419

It looks like Mounce and Zondervan are among their partners, so I wonder just whose content is in the Greek courses.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915330#Comment_915330

1) Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic are the ONLY languages that God chose to communicate His inspired word.

The orthodox doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture has always been restricted to the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts as penned by the Biblical writers (or their scribes), not to copies or translations of these documents. Reading the original Biblical languages is like hearing the voice in person, as opposed to listening through a distorted, cracking and hissing AM radio station.

2) The single, most important, starting point for biblical exegesis is grammar.

Our primary concern must be with the grammar of the original language, not the English translation, and for this we need to know the original Biblical language. A text simply CANNOT mean what the grammar of that text does not support.

3) Knowing Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Greek unveils the interpretive options of a given text—and assists in properly adjudicating among them.

In the Greek language the genitive case alone has over thirty different grammatical functions, of which translators must choose only one in any given occurrence; English readers frequently have little clue what possibilities the translators rejected.

4) Knowing Biblical Hebrew and Greek gives the interpreter useable access to invaluable exegetical tools

Certain passages of Scripture have multiple possibilities for meaning. Some translations footnote (usually one of) the grammatical options, but many do not. When, say the King James Version differs from the New International Version, how will you determine which of them gives the best sense? "Gut feeling?" "Holy Spirit Woosh?" Urim and Thummim? For this, readers need a knowledge of the Biblical languages and access to grammars, lexica, and scholarly commentaries that deal directly with the original text, little of which will make any sense to those unschooled in Biblical languages.

5) Reading the text in the original Biblical languages develops and reinforces a careful, detailed hermeneutical approach.

Having to establish the precise use of a case or mood or voice forces the interpreter to consider all the various possibilities of meaning inherent in the language of the text. When it comes to hermeneutics, attention to detail often brings a huge exegetical dividend from this investment.

6) Reading the Biblical text in the original Hebrew or Greek languages also identifies the authors' emphases.

Here we think specifically of rhetorical features, such as alliteration, assonance, poetic structure, chiasm, marked/unmarked word order, and the like, most of which are completely lost in translation—but all of which are clearly discernable to those schooled in the Biblical languages.

7) Learning the Biblical languages is a crucial antidote to hermeneutical arrogance.

Grappling with texts in their original Biblical language repeatedly calls our preconceived notions about the meaning of these texts to account; it checks unfounded certainty and preformed conclusions.

Thanks for your reply, I do agree with what you posted here.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915353#Comment_915353

If someone had I'm sure they would comment, but this forum is strictly for advice related to Faithlife's bible software (Logos, Verbum..).

So, why do you want to learn e.g. to read and translate? For what purpose e.g. private, in connection with other theological courses?

You are right Dave. I just did not know if anyone had seen the post. I guess I misworded my original post, I am open to learning from different resources, e.g. what Logos offers but I happened to come across BibleMesh while I was researching.

I mainly want to learn Greek and Hebrew to read and help with exegesis and further my education. Thanks for responding Dave.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915355#Comment_915355

It is incredibly hard to learn a language without human help (I studied Greek in college and seminary, studied an unwritten language in Africa, etc.). If at all possible, link up with someone (a pastor perhaps) who can help you navigate the process. I never studied Hebrew, but if I were to try to study Greek on my own, I would use Mounce's resources. Logos has them available...if you use Mounce for Greek you can get video lectures, you'll be using a standard first year textbook, and there are additional tools you can also get like vocab cards, etc. It will not be easy, but if you are extremely motivated and faithful (daily)...you can do it. Just don't think it will be easy or quick. Learning a language takes time. Learning it well will probably take years.

Paul thank you for your advice and comments. I agree that I would want to have some instruction and not simply read a grammar which would be harder to do. That is why when I researched I came across BibleMesh because it has instruction, videos, vocab, writing, reading from the bible, etc.

Did you use Mounce to learn Greek?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915398#Comment_915398

BibleMesh is legit. More up to date linguistically than Mounce and really any first-year text I know. If you're going to do it alone in a grammatical-translation approach, I'd encourage BibleMesh about above anything.

Hey Ryan, thank you for your comment and replies. Did you happen to take any language courses on BibleMesh? I most likely will be doing it on my own to learn.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915399#Comment_915399

Learning it well will probably take years.

The usual estimation is 10 years to master a biblical language

Definitely agree, not looking for an instant learn but a dedication to continue to learn Hebrew and Greek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915422#Comment_915422

It looks like Mounce and Zondervan are among their partners, so I wonder just whose content is in the Greek courses.

I think the content is different from Zondervan a little bit. I don't think they use the same grammar book but I have seen on Logos they have video lectures that accompany the Basics of Biblical Hebrew and Greek textbooks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915440#Comment_915440

BibleMesh is legit. More up to date linguistically than Mounce and really any first-year text I know. If you're going to do it alone in a grammatical-translation approach, I'd encourage BibleMesh about above anything.

Hey Ryan, thank you for your comment and replies. Did you happen to take any language courses on BibleMesh? I most likely will be doing it on my own to learn.

Yeah. I've done some of their stuff. It takes focused discipline. But, that is with any approach to learning Greek. It's enjoyable though. I enjoyed their working through biblical texts. You learn vocab in John 1-3 and they have all of that in Cerego. It's a good set up. And remember, way more up to date in Greek studies (linguistics is something they care about) than others I believe.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915502#Comment_915502

Yeah. I've done some of their stuff. It takes focused discipline. But, that is with any approach to learning Greek. It's enjoyable though. I enjoyed their working through biblical texts. You learn vocab in John 1-3 and they have all of that in Cerego. It's a good set up. And remember, way more up to date in Greek studies (linguistics is something they care about) than others I believe.

Awesome! Thank you for your experience and feedback Ryan! Did you only take Level 1 of Greek Reading? I'm contemplating taking the whole lot of Hebrew and Greek and committing time to do that each day.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915438#Comment_915438

Did you use Mounce to learn Greek?

You're not asking me but...

I used Mounce's material to teach myself Greek. I ended up taking a Greek online course to get the credits and aced it without doing much work, so I know I learned it well myself. Sure, some newer ideas are being discussed which Mounce doesn't deal with, such as aspect, but you can read about that elsewhere. The main thing is to start reading in Greek. I liked Mounce's stuff because I had everything that I needed, the video lectures, workbook, and textbook.

If you teach yourself, you will need to be disciplined and do a bit every day. You must pick a course and stick with it until you are reading. It's a life long journey, so enjoy it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915505#Comment_915505

Awesome! Thank you for your experience and feedback Ryan! Did you only take Level 1 of Greek Reading? I'm contemplating taking the whole lot of Hebrew and Greek and committing time to do that each day.

Yep. Greek Reading 1. It was enjoyable. Also, just one more time because people keep saying Mounce, do biblemesh over mounce. He is a great guy and his resources have helped many. But, once you get into learning the work through of the verb, you'll be in a lot better place theoretically. They have a very balanced and proper understanding of the interaction between aspect, tense, and morphology that many others need to catch up to. And rather than learning about aspect separately, it's best to learn about it when you are learning Greek for the first time since Greek is aspect-prominent rather than Tense prominent. You'd just have to go back and relearn the verb to a certain degree (and then it gets way too confusing and people give up and think old easier English categories).

If some of this doesn't make sense now, it will.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915518#Comment_915518

You're not asking me but...

I used Mounce's material to teach myself Greek. I ended up taking a Greek online course to get the credits and aced it without doing much work, so I know I learned it well myself. Sure, some newer ideas are being discussed which Mounce doesn't deal with, such as aspect, but you can read about that elsewhere. The main thing is to start reading in Greek. I liked Mounce's stuff because I had everything that I needed, the video lectures, workbook, and textbook.

If you teach yourself, you will need to be disciplined and do a bit every day. You must pick a course and stick with it until you are reading. It's a life long journey, so enjoy it.

Thanks for the feedback James, I agree it is something I will have to commit to doing each day to keep at it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915544#Comment_915544

Yep. Greek Reading 1. It was enjoyable. Also, just one more time because people keep saying Mounce, do biblemesh over mounce. He is a great guy and his resources have helped many. But, once you get into learning the work through of the verb, you'll be in a lot better place theoretically. They have a very balanced and proper understanding of the interaction between aspect, tense, and morphology that many others need to catch up to. And rather than learning about aspect separately, it's best to learn about it when you are learning Greek for the first time since Greek is aspect-prominent rather than Tense prominent. You'd just have to go back and relearn the verb to a certain degree (and then it gets way too confusing and people give up and think old easier English categories).

If some of this doesn't make sense now, it will.

Ryan, your advice and feedback have been very helpful, thank you so much! I do find it interesting that biblemesh takes the inductive method of learning a language instead of deductive, it seems to make sense thinking of it. Are you going to take any more language courses at biblemesh Ryan?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915654#Comment_915654

Start at the beginning and learn the alphabets. You don't need much technical expertise or fancy training to do that. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can begin to study with whatever program or classes you need to dig in. The other thing is to learn/relearn grammar and grammatical terms so you don't feel like an idiot. Language study presumes you know English grammar; something that is long forgotten by the time most students encounter it in college or seminary.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915667#Comment_915667

Start at the beginning and learn the alphabets. You don't need much technical expertise or fancy training to do that. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can begin to study with whatever program or classes you need to dig in. The other thing is to learn/relearn grammar and grammatical terms so you don't feel like an idiot. Language study presumes you know English grammar; something that is long forgotten by the time most students encounter it in college or seminary.

Thanks for your insight mab, I actually learned both of the alphabets for Hebrew and Greek. Now trying to decide where to go from here. I also have resources that explain English grammar in relation to learning Hebrew and Greek from Zondervan.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915670#Comment_915670

Several people have mentioned Mounce. I've used it twice. I worked through most of it once on a self-study basis, and then several years later had the opportunity to take a first-year Greek seminary class that also used Mounce. I found it very accessible. Of course, taking it in a class setting with a real professor and weekly quizzes to keep me honest was much more effective (and efficient) than self-study. That being said, I learned enough working though it by myself the first time to give me a big leg up on the class. (As I recall, where the wheels started coming off the bus for me the first time through was with participles.) If you do decide to use Mounce for self-study, I would strongly recommend getting (and using) both the lectures and the workbook that go with it. For me, it took going through each lecture repeatedly and doing all of the exercises to make any real progress.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915686#Comment_915686

Several people have mentioned Mounce. I've used it twice. I worked through most of it once on a self-study basis, and then several years later had the opportunity to take a first-year Greek seminary class that also used Mounce. I found it very accessible. Of course, taking it in a class setting with a real professor and weekly quizzes to keep me honest was much more effective (and efficient) than self-study. That being said, I learned enough working though it by myself the first time to give me a big leg up on the class. (As I recall, where the wheels started coming off the bus for me the first time through was with participles.) If you do decide to use Mounce for self-study, I would strongly recommend getting (and using) both the lectures and the workbook that go with it. For me, it took going through each lecture repeatedly and doing all of the exercises to make any real progress.

Thanks for your input EastTN, I appreciate it! It seems as if Mounce is the most widely used textbook. I have seen on Logos that they offer the video lectures, workbook, etc. I am definitely considering it and also considering BibleMesh too. I agree with you that it will take repeated learning and repetition to remember to be most effective.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915690#Comment_915690

I have taken 2 semesters of Greek that used Mounce's resources. I thought they were very helpful. Having them available in Logos was also a plus. I don't have any experience with Bible Mesh, but I heard positive things about them from someone who had taken them.

I was told that one difference between the two courses was that Bible Mesh required you to type in Greek while Mounce's work did not. I did a lot of writing in Greek with Mounce, but there was not any typing involved with the course

Also, if I'm remembering correctly, you only have access to Bible Mesh resources for a specific length of time. Mounce's resources are mine permanently.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915654#Comment_915654

Ryan, your advice and feedback have been very helpful, thank you so much! I do find it interesting that biblemesh takes the inductive method of learning a language instead of deductive, it seems to make sense thinking of it. Are you going to take any more language courses at biblemesh Ryan?

Presently, I'm not looking to. Not because they are lacking quality or excellence though.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915700#Comment_915700

I have taken 2 semesters of Greek that used Mounce's resources. I thought they were very helpful. Having them available in Logos was also a plus. I don't have any experience with Bible Mesh, but I heard positive things about them from someone who had taken them.

I was told that one difference between the two courses was that Bible Mesh required you to type in Greek while Mounce's work did not. I did a lot of writing in Greek with Mounce, but there was not any typing involved with the course

Also, if I'm remembering correctly, you only have access to Bible Mesh resources for a specific length of time. Mounce's resources are mine permanently.

Thanks for your reply Ronald. I agree having the ability to keep the resources is definitely a good plus. I have heard some good things about BibleMesh too if you sign up for the Hebrew and Greek Language track you have access for ten years. I think that is a pretty good length of course keeping it would be a plus.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915701#Comment_915701

Presently, I'm not looking to. Not because they are lacking quality or excellence though.

Got it, thanks for all your help thus far on this thread! It has been very beneficial helping me to think about different options.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915700#Comment_915700

Something else that I liked about Mounce was the ability to download the audio version of the lessons and listen to them while driving back and forth to work. He also has the vocabulary in audio as well. I was able to go over and over them which helped me learn them.

I'm not sure if this is available in Bible Mesh.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/915704#Comment_915704

Something else that I liked about Mounce was the ability to download the audio version of the lessons and listen to them while driving back and forth to work. He also has the vocabulary in audio as well. I was able to go over and over them which helped me learn them.

I'm not sure if this is available in Bible Mesh.

I think there is some online system that integrates learning vocabulary with audio files and video lectures too.

Quick Links