BUG: Maximized window state not maintained in Verbum

On Mac 7.10 RC 1 (and prior), if Verbum is closed while in maximized state, it should reopen in maximized state - it does not. The Windows version of Verbum maintains maximized state, the Mac version should do the same.

I have not found a user interface guidelines or human factors document on the internet that indicates this is proper behavior. Please fix this, it should be a small fix! Thanks.

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JT (alabama24)

The Windows version of Verbum maintains maximized state, the Mac version should do the same.

Ugh, please! I have been griping about this for at least 3 years.

Philana R. Crouch

HI Don,

This is not easy to reproduce. Can you provide a screenshot of the layout it was loading? This will help us track things down.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929245#Comment_929245

Hi Philana, this happens to me every time - I use Verbum on the latest High Sierra OS on the Mac. I don't use a layout, it just opens to the Home Page (Settings/Startup set to Home). What I do to duplicate:

1. Open Verbum - it opens in a window.

2. Click on the green button in the top left corner of the window, to maximize Verbum to take up the entire screen.

3. Close Verbum.

4. Open Verbum - it now shows again in a window, I have to again click the green button to maximize into using the whole screen, it does not maintain the current window state when it was last closed.

If closed while maximized, it should open next time maximized. If closed in a window, it should open again in a window.

Does that help, or do you need more from me to duplicate the issue?

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929245#Comment_929245

This is not easy to reproduce.

If you can't reproduce the issue, you don't understand the problem! Click on the green "maximize" button. Close Logos. Open Logos. Logos does not open in the maximized, full screen mode.

PetahChristian

The Windows version of Verbum maintains maximized state, the Mac version should do the same.

The first thing I do upon opening the program is to maximize the window. It certainly would be great if the Mac version had the same behavior as the Windows version.

It would not only eliminate that unnecessary step, but would avoid this maximized Home Page issue.

(Like Don, my program settings also open to the Home Page, not a layout.)

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929282#Comment_929282

I don't know what you are all moaning about!

I just love the routine.

...Switch to Logos Workspace (Max Screen far left workspace)

...Note that in order to get the update I need to restart – really?

...Quit Logos

...Open Logos

...Make Logos full screen.

...Move Logos workspace back to its position as far left Workspace.

...await the next iteration.

These things that are a constant in my life give it continuity and stability. It's just one of those things you know you have to endure - just like you know that having a reading plan for a (non-bible) book will leave you at a cliff hanger each day. Mostly mid-paragraph.

Lighten up lads this is life.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929285#Comment_929285

Lighten up lads; this is life.

fify [:P]

Philana R. Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929277#Comment_929277

Hi Philana, this happens to me every time - I use Verbum on the latest High Sierra OS on the Mac. I don't use a layout, it just opens to the Home Page (Settings/Startup set to Home). What I do to duplicate:

1. Open Verbum - it opens in a window.

2. Click on the green button in the top left corner of the window, to maximize Verbum to take up the entire screen.

3. Close Verbum.

4. Open Verbum - it now shows again in a window, I have to again click the green button to maximize into using the whole screen, it does not maintain the current window state when it was last closed.

If closed while maximized, it should open next time maximized. If closed in a window, it should open again in a window.

Does that help, or do you need more from me to duplicate the issue?

Hi Don,

Thanks for the clarification, I thought you were describing a different issue we've had trouble reproducing. I'll get a case written up.

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929301#Comment_929301

Thanks Philana! That would be awesome if this got fixed, I am hoping it is an easy fix.

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929317#Comment_929317

Don and alabama,

I get the same behavior (with Logos on Sierra), but I'm not convinced it's a "bug." I just did the same thing on several other apps (launch, green button to maximize to its own "Space," quit, re-open), and none of them re-open fullscreen in a dedicated Space. Re-opening in window state seems to be the established convention.

Are there other apps you are aware of that, when quit from a Space, reestablish that Space when re-opened?

--Adam

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929533#Comment_929533

Are there other apps you are aware of that, when quit from a Space, reestablish that Space when re-opened?

Hmm. I know that some apps used to do so. I know that Safari used to have a setting to do so. I know that Mail & iTunes still do. I know that I sent a support link to a FL dev which outlined it, but that was 3-5(?) years ago.

In my quick search, I found some users who said that it had been taken away... but I know that at one point there was a method for doing so.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929538#Comment_929538

I did find this, which is supposedly AppleScript:

<span class="kwd">set<span class="pln"> <span class="typ">MyApps<span class="pln"> to <span class="pun">{<span class="str">"Google Chrome"<span class="pun">,<span class="pln"> <span class="str">"Skype"<span class="pun">,<span class="pln"> <span class="str">"Finder"<span class="pun">}<span class="pln">
repeat <span class="kwd">with<span class="pln"> <span class="typ">MyApp<span class="pln"> <span class="kwd">in<span class="pln"> <span class="typ">MyApps<span class="pln">
    tell application <span class="typ">MyApp<span class="pln">
        activate
        delay <span class="lit">3<span class="pln">
    <span class="kwd">end<span class="pln"> tell
    tell application <span class="str">"System Events"<span class="pln">
        tell process <span class="typ">MyApp<span class="pln">
            <span class="kwd">set<span class="pln"> value of attribute <span class="str">"AXFullScreen"<span class="pln"> of window <span class="lit">1<span class="pln"> to <span class="kwd">true<span class="pln">
            delay <span class="lit">3<span class="pln">
        <span class="kwd">end<span class="pln"> tell
    <span class="kwd">end<span class="pln"> tell
<span class="kwd">end<span class="pln"> repeat

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929538#Comment_929538

I know that Mail & iTunes still do.

Safari 11.0 (13604.1.38.1.6) and Photos 3.0 (3201.11.120) also open to full screen when re-opened.

This is on macOS 10.13 (17A405).

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929548#Comment_929548

Safari 11.0

I can't make this work. I have read old posts (about old versions), but the settings mentioned to make it work aren't present in 11.x

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929554#Comment_929554

Yes some do and some don't. But the guidelines are clear that software *should*, as this is part of the application 'state'; the developer guidelines discusses techniques on how to persist that state across restarts. Logos/Verbum does maintain size and position if I manually resize and reposition and then close/reopen, EXCEPT if my resizing is total screen size. Isn't that illogical?

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929617#Comment_929617

I tested ten additional applications to see how Apple handles this.

Nine of the applications re-open to full screen: Xcode, Terminal, Reminders, Contacts, Calendar, Notes, Maps, Messages, and App Store.

iBooks is the odd one out. It doesn't re-open to full screen, but to its last non-full screen size and position. I assume that's an oversight.

Yes some do and some don't.

It seems that Apple prefers to restore the full screen application state. Hopefully FL will follow their example.

PetahChristian

I have not found a user interface guidelines or human factors document on the internet that indicates this is proper behavior.

Implementing the Full Screen Experience in the Mac App Programming Guide ends with: "For more information about full-screen mode, see ... the macOS Human Interface Guidelines," which says:

"Large, high-resolution displays are typical for most Mac users, and people often extend their workspace by connecting additional displays. Apps can leverage this expansiveness and provide value by utilizing a wide range of interface components—like tabs, sidebars, sheets, and panels—and supporting immersive features like full-screen mode."

Hopefully FL will not merely offer full screen mode, but also support restoring to full screen state.

While this is such a trivial issue, getting it right somehow makes the user experience so much better. I suppose such attention to detail is one reason why companies win Apple design awards.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929655#Comment_929655

...but did you read anything about maintaining "full screen" after a restart? I haven't found anything yet. I don't want to let FL off the hook without them investigating it, but it might not be their fault.

Adam's question should have a follow up: Do we know of any non-Apple apps which reopen in full screen? I haven't found any yet. [:s]

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929656#Comment_929656

...but did you read anything about maintaining "full screen" after a restart? I haven't found anything yet. I don't want to let FL off the hook without them investigating it, but it might not be their fault.

While I haven't found that detail spelled out, what would be the point of persisting the full screen state if that key was not meant to be used when the application was re-opened?

Adam's question should have a follow up: Do we know of any non-Apple apps which reopen in full screen? I haven't found any yet.

These third-party apps do re-open in full screen:

Affinity Designer
Bear
GitHub Desktop
ocenaudio
Sketch

Of note, Bear won a 2017 Apple Design Award.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929664#Comment_929664

what would be the point of persisting the full screen state if that key was not meant to be used

Where did you read this? I guess that is what I am trying to get at... is there anything we can point to which definitively states that this is possible... although what you wrote here gives me hope:

These third-party apps do re-open in full screen:

None of mine do, that I know. I harped on this for a while, but it really has been at least 4 years ago. I've long since given up. [:s]

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929689#Comment_929689

Is your System Preferences > General > Close windows when quitting an app, unchecked?

I just tried it with that setting checked, and one of its effects is that an app doesn't resume to full screen. Once I unchecked it again, the app -- Notes in this case -- resumed opening in full screen.

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/929694#Comment_929694

Thanks for exploring this with us, guys.

FWIW, I also checked this on the Windows equivalent of Mac's "Spaces," called virtual desktop. I know it's not exactly the same thing, but you might be interested (happy?) to know that Logos behaves the same on Windows: that is, when re-opening the app, it doesn't restore it's position in another virtual desktop.

Take this together with the fact that it seems to be the exception rather than the rule for non-Apple apps, and it really doesn't feel like a bug to me.

I'll file it as a idea for a new feature, and we'll explore how hard it would be to implement.