Church Dogmatics Sale - A little misleading?

Please understand the spirit in which this comment is posted. I am not trying to yell at anyone or whinge however, I was more than a little disappointed with the recent blog post about the savings associated with Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics that are on sale this weekend.

The post states at the beginning that we are able to save almost 32% off of the retail price of the set. Fair enough. However, there is no explanation that the retail price is not the so called sale price (which is the regular price). Therefore I went and checked my sums and thought that I could purchase the set within my budget. I turns out this i snot the case and the 32% is the amount off of the retail price even though the second to last sentance of the blog post which states "This week, two years ago, we released all fourteen volumes of Church Dogmatics for Logos Bible Software. We’re commemorating this anniversary by offering a this-weekend-only discount of almost 32% off of Church Dogmatics (14 Vols.)" fails to mention which price the amount is off!

Here are my points:

Firstly, I think it is wrong to over state the discount without an explanation. Having said this I do not think Logos are trying to be misleading however, I do think it would have been better for us customers to read how we're are saving nearly 20% (or whatever it is) off of the regular price we are able to purchase it for.

Secondly, I think the second to last sentence needs to be adjusted. This is the one I read and based my sums on.

Well, there ends my rant. I love logos and appreciate any special but I admit I really got excited when I read 32% off and I assumed it was that amount off of the price I would normally pay.

Please receive this in the spirit which it is intended and not as an attack. Smile

Mark Stevens

Peace be with you.

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Comments

Graham Owen

Hi Mark

I agree it would be preferable from a user perspective to advertise the offer as a discount that is based on the current Logos price rather than a discount related to a suggested selling price. There have been a number of offers that have been based on the suggested selling price and when any of us check out the offer there is an inevitable disappointment...

Kevin Becker

The post states at the beginning that we are able to save almost 32% off of the retail price of the set. Fair enough. However, there is no explanation that the retail price is not the so called sale price (which is the regular price).

This is common knowledge amongst US consumers. Retail is often short for MSRP (Manufactures Suggested Retail Price) and is the price that percent discounts are subtracted from. I'm not certain that this common practice among US retailers should need to come with an explanation.

Robert Pavich

Mark,

this is common. Products are supported by a certain amount of "puffing" to use an industry term. We (americans) know this goes on...and we adjust our thinking accordingly.

Possibly this falls into the same category.

spitzerpl

I agree. I interpret Logos saying "save xx%" as meaning "save xx% of what you would have spent with us if you didn't buy it this weekend" Certainly not unethical, but preferable. I would have preferred "save 20%, that's 32% off the MSRP!"

Mark Stevens

The post states at the beginning that we are able to save almost 32% off of the retail price of the set. Fair enough. However, there is no explanation that the retail price is not the so called sale price (which is the regular price).

This is common knowledge amongst US consumers. Retail is often short for MSRP (Manufactures Suggested Retail Price) and is the price that percent discounts are subtracted from. I'm not certain that this common practice among US retailers should need to come with an explanation.

Kevin I find your argument laughable because I live in Australia so I would have NO IDEA of this and Logos is an internationally used product. I appreciate that it might be common practice but to suggest it doesn't need to come with explannation is absurd.

In Australia, and I could be wrong about this, but I am fairly confident this kind of thing is illegal (I am not suggesting Logos are being unethical or illegal in anyway). In Australia you must advertise the savings off of the last quoted regular price.

Kevin, this is not a personal shot at you but I really disagree with your argument![:)]

Graham Owen

because I live in Australia

I live in the UK, and would normally expect a reference to the saving based on current price to be part of an offer.

Lynden O. Williams

Kevin I find your argument laughable because I live in Australia so I would have NO IDEA of this and Logos is an internationally used product. I appreciate that it might be common practice but to suggest it doesn't need to come with explannation is absurd.

In Australia, and I could be wrong about this, but I am fairly confident this kind of thing is illegal (I am not suggesting Logos are being unethical or illegal in anyway). In Australia you must advertise the savings off of the last quoted regular price.

I have to agree with Mark. I was also fooled by the advertisement. The concept is foreign to me in the Bahamas. Logos is an international product, what works for North America, does not necessarily apply to the rest of the world.

spitzerpl

What price was the percents for March Madness taken off of? I would argue for consistency.

Kevin Becker

Every Logos product has a "Retail Price" which is normally more than the regular "Logos Sale Price." Every sale that I have seen from Logos (including March Madness) has been a percentage off the Retail Price. The first line of the blog post clearly stated that deal was in relation to the retail price. Logos' marketing people all live and work in the US, isn't it to be expected that Logos' sales would reflect common US practice? Yes, Logos is used by an international base of consumers but it is based in the United States and I dare say that the majority of customers are probably from the US. Why wouldn't they use the form that is common to the majority of their user base?

If I was not from the US and not used to this practice I would probably be disappointed too. I sympathize that it is a foreign idea, but isn't that what should be expected when dealing with a company from a foreign country?

EDIT: If this were a target ad (like an email to .co.uk email addresses) then I would expect it to conform to the common practices of that country.

Paul Golder

Retail pricing misleading? Never hear of it [:O]

Next someone will be saying that retail price structure is just another method to increase sales [;)]

Alan Macgregor

In the UK for an item to be quoted as being discounted from a "certain price", the law states that it must have been offered at that "certain price" in at least one retail outlet in the last six months. Otherwise, under UK law, you cannot make the offer. E.g. Was £10.99 NOW £5.99 is only allowed if it has been offered for sale at that price in the last six months in a least one of the retailer's stores. The same is true for 32% discount! It must have been offered at that 100% price in at least one of the retailer's outlets.

Of course, when I am shopping online in the USA then that rule does not apply, because most – if not all – retailers operate according to their own national laws. But if Logos ever open an office in EU (European Union) then they must obey EU legislation for sales in the EU, as Microsoft discovered to their great financial cost recently. (Now they must offer other browsers and not only IE. And they were fined millions of Euros.)

But please don't assume that people in other countries are aware of what is "common US retail practice", because we aren't. As the Latin tag has it: caveat emptor! Let the buyer beware!

Roger Feenstra

I admit I really got excited when I read 32% off

In reality, it doesn't matter what percentage off a retailer puts on a product. The bottom line is, is it a good price for me? Can I afford it? I try not to get sucked in by percent off advertising.

On the other hand, I understand your point. But to be consistent, I would recommend Logos stay with the percent off MSRP. At least that is a common ground starting point. It would be kind of difficult to list something for sale as, "32% off the last known sale price (which is the regular price, which is not the MSRP)". It gets too convoluted.

(MSRP is really kind of a joke because items are rarely sold for that price anyway).

Alan Macgregor

MSRP is really kind of a joke because items are rarely sold for that price anyway

Why base your sales pitch on a discredited system that everyone thinks is a joke? That way lies hard-bitten cynicism. Being up-front about prices and discounts is a win-win for seller and buyer. Seller is offering a genuine discount and potential buyers are not left with a sour taste in their mouth when they realise they can't afford it. They are less likely to come back for more, if they feel misled in past experiences!

Matthew C Jones

with a sour taste in their mouth

I agree with you. But if this cynicism is not checked at some point we will find the mob demanding Logos not sell resources cheaper than the mob has aquired them for.

Example: Oxford Movement Historical Theology Collection (10 Vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/details/2940 Suggested Retail Price $568.45 Sale Price $124.95 How many people are sitting at home with a sour taste in their mouth because they paid more than $125 for this collection. Do they assume Logos should give them a refund or keep the price as high as they purchased it for.

If memory serves me, The Works of Cornelius Van Til http://www.logos.com/products/details/3993 on sale for $199 is usually quite a bit higher. I bought it on Pre-Pub for very little under that. I could rant how Logos misled me by implying I was saving a fortune but now makes it available on sale.

Anybody who bought Word Biblical Commentary for $600 was probably miffed when Logos put it on sale for $400. And anyone reading this who wants to buy it is upset they can't get the sale price today.

The blog could not have been clearer; "save nearly 32% off retail." You can argue all day long if the retail is real or not. Some people actually pay retail price sometimes. There are people who will buy the Baker Academic titles at retail. I'm sorry Logos hasn't learned all the cultural differences in international marketing. I am sure they will learn from this thread but I don't see why a comparison to an established MSRP is wrong. All sales are calculated from the MSRP downward, depending on the discounts. Maybe they should be called "rebates" to comply with UK law..

Michael G. Halpern

Frequently, when I go to a retailer who is offering a percentage off on a pair of shoes, a television, (just about anything you can think of)...it is very often discounted off of the "regularly" or "last" selling price...not the price it was six months/a year ago. There is nothing "common" about using the MSRP/Retail price...business choose which "starting point" they want to use all the time. For me, I want to know what I'm saving off of the price I would pay today if you didn't offer me any additional incentive to make my purchase today ("or for a very short time"). This is just my opinion.

Another thing I notice quite regularly on these forums and frequently from some of the same individuals...There doesn't seem to be much grace and understanding for one another. We are passionate and have many varied opinions, but we are all entitled to them...right or wrong or indifferent. We should "walk a while" in the others' shoes and do our very best to understand their perspective and concede that our thoughts may not be the best either. I hope you are all my brothers and sisters and that we are all serving the same Lord who has told us to be humble and compassionate. I don't often "hear" (see) that sentiment here. Please gently correct me when I blow it too family...thank you...Michael

PS I know it is not always easy to pick up the tone and other nuances when we are communicating through text like this...so I'll extend some additional grace as well. [:)]

MJ. Smith

I live in the UK, and would normally expect a reference to the saving based on current price to be part of an offer.

I live in the US ...same state as Logos. I would expect the reference to be against the usual Logos price unless otherwise noted.