Introducing Faithlife Connect
Comments
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JRS said:
Here's a challenge to all of those who are so terribly upset with Faithlife and their pricing scheme:
Here's a challenge to you: Would you be equally happy if they increased the price 300%? 500%? Where's your cutoff? Why aren't you more generous to such a wonderful corporation?
JRS said:And yet, we whine about a few extra dollars to make it all happen. We even impugn the motives of the Christian brothers and sisters at FaithLife. Many seem to think that unless they have taken a monkish vow of poverty and work long hours for a crust of bread and a sip of water, they are somehow under the power of avarice.
I live in the 10/40 window. I have a Ph.D. and pastor a large church. I make roughly the equivalent of U.S. minimum wage. I cannot justifiably afford this unreasonable increase to the price of Logos Now. Today FaithLife took from me something that was valuable for my ministry as well as my personal life. I am quite reasonably unhappy about that.
Customers who have been with Logos/FaithLife for years, even decades, have right to complain about their bad decisions.Take your corporate white-knighting somewhere else.
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JRS said:
Here's a challenge to all of those who are so terribly upset with Faithlife and their pricing scheme: Go and assemble, say, a single Passage Guide of comparable Logos-quality using only the tools and means of a mere thirty years ago (I realize that many are too young to relate to this but the challenge is still applicable to you). In other words, take pencil, paper, index cards, and typewriter to a theological library and manually research, document, and then organize into a professional-looking presentation all of the information that Logos would assemble for you. And don't forget the time required for those interlibrary loans. Any idea as to how long this chore would take you (assuming you don't get discouraged and quit)? Weeks, perhaps months. And yet, with a few simple keystrokes and a couple of seconds of computer cycles, you have biblical research of a quality and quantity such as the world has never seen before. Incredible, simply incredible. But don't stop there ... consider also the datasets, the ability to search an entire library with a simple push of a button, the hyperlinking of every book in the library to every other book, the tools, etc. that you have in even the most basic Logos configuration.
Don't you recognize the enormous explosion in biblical studies that is happening right before your very eyes and that we are blessed to be a part of? History rightly judges Gutenberg and his moveable type to have been a giant in his day and a necessary cog for the Reformation which changed the world ... imagine how it will judge the advent of the computer and Logos!
And yet, we whine about a few extra dollars to make it all happen. We even impugn the motives of the Christian brothers and sisters at FaithLife. Many seem to think that unless they have taken a monkish vow of poverty and work long hours for a crust of bread and a sip of water, they are somehow under the power of avarice.
But I say, Bring it on! I am happy to invest in this amazing gift to the Church. Even if I don't use all of the bells and whistles, I am pleased to know that I can help the development of these tools for others - not only for today but into the future as well.
a) I haven't impugned FL's motives. Nor has everyone who objects to the changes.
b) You're misrepresenting the argument of many (most?) of the people who object to the change.
Of course we understand the value. We're saying that we are willing to pay $99/year for all of those productivity features and datasets. We're not willing to pay $240/year for all of those features even though we also get a bunch of other benefits. We don't use the analogous benefits now, and we wouldn't use them in Connect "Essentials."
c) Finally, while at present I can afford the extra amount, there are many here who are pastors or in ministry. To them, those "few extra dollars" you refer to are very significant.
All in all, a fairly condescending post.
Donnie
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t
Of course it is the natural progression of any subscription-based service. Rent never goes down, only up. Good analogy. I remember that I started out paying $20 a month for cable TV, and now pay $125 per month, with no premium movie channels. (On the other hand, I do have a multiple room DVR, and there is certainly a time factor involved.)Robert Neely said:Sean said:This is an utter betrayal.
No, this is the natural progression of a subscription-based service. Remember how cable tv started out?
I was not even interested in Logos Now, and I am surely not interested in this. The last thing I want is a monthly bill for my library books. I would be more inclined to use that monthly fee for a payment to own books that I select, rather than to rent them, which what this amounts to doing. And you do not even get to choose what books you renting. Absurd!
Maybe this will work out for Logos. They better hope that not many of the customers are like me. I do not accuse Logos of betrayal. It is a business decision, and I wish them well. I will continue to buy my books from Logos (mostly). I certainly wish them well. They are a great company, and they are great people. But as for any subscription service, thanks, but no thanks. May be a great fit for someone else.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
Either this is an awful deal
or
It has been badly communicated
or
The customer community are dense and have not understood the obvious!
Are there any other options.??
Let me know
Shalom
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I'm confused on the length of the access to Connect. Do all LN subscribers get access to essentials until 2/22/19? I've seen some claim they got starter and others essential. I got essential which I'm actually warming up to (grabbed the class on Exodus to check out for free for 180 days). I was thinking my LN expired before Feb 2019 but it seems I'll get connect until 2019... am I just lucky or is FL being generous?
Maybe this all hasn't been worked out on the back-end but it would be much more welcoming if it isn't an accident. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot but I don't want to be dishonest either. Anyone else seeing this?
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FYI, this was just posted in the Catholic forum:
Thomas Gette said:Verbum Now customers may have heard that Logos Now and Logos Cloud customers will be transitioned into our new subscription product, Faithlife Connect, and that we’ll be discontinuing those programs over the next year.
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect
So I guess we should all just switch to Verbum Now
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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fgh said:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.
I want that, but for Logos Now.
-Donnie
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Kevin A Lewis said:
Either this is an awful deal
or
It has been badly communicated
or
The customer community are dense and have not understood the obvious!
Are there any other options.??
Let me know
Shalom
'Tis an awful deal, badly communicated......Re: dense Ur kidding, of course. We ain't dense......But, we are connected to them by what we own +, as the umbilical cord grows in diameter, by what we rent.
The 1st time I was on a sea-going vessel as a kid, I felt the thrum of the engine increase as the vessel started out. I felt uneasy for what the mighty sea and the waves held in store. I feel the same unease here; white-knuckling a deck chair helps not at all, as it seems 2b moving in jittery little twitches interspersed with bigger lurches.
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Sean said:
I like Logos. I like many of its tools. I'm not at all interested in FaithLife's productions, TVs, or courses. And I don't have endless funds to absorb every increase.
I have always felt that is the problem behind the push on money - just the responses here must be what, at least 90% negative? Where's the customer base whose input was the "feedback" that helped FL conclude this was a venture good for its customers?
Bob has said the increase in cost and subscription is due to "support", but you can't convince me there are enough paying customers to make Faithlife TV, cloud, Faithlife social groups, Proclaim, all the different mobile apps, Bible Study Magazine, Soundfaith, Kirkdale Press, other websites like Biblia, and probably more I am not thinking of, PROFITABLE - what pays for all that? What funds the new ventures that pop up, while the forums have a large quantity of quality and performance issues where it's victory to just get them "on the list"? I think what funds all this is the cash cow Logos. A 200% increase in subscription price is warranted, especially when it can "pay" for some of these otherwise underfunded ventures.
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I am a Faithlife user since before Libronix - CDWORD. I have $10,000s of dollars invested and have been pleased with the product and pricing previously. Essentially, all I desire is to keep up with the product enhancements and continue to grow (and preserve) my permanent library.
I don't need nor desire the cloud-based services or bells and whistles of services that I don't use or could get elsewhere. With a bit of concern I previously switched to LOGOS NOW - it seemed to be a good investment to maintain product capability. My level of concern for the future has now reached new heights. I will withdraw from the new service and reengage in a purchase scenario. I am too heavily invested in books to withdraw from Faithlife, but if I were a new user I might give other companies serious consideration. I can't believe that I am even making this statement.
As a previous business person here is my perspective. It seems Faithlife is deviating from its previous user base's needs and foundational products. Are you increasing your expense streams by offering capabilities that no one wants and are forced to seek new revenue streams to fund these efforts? I know it is easy to speculate from a distance, but as a user/customer I too am forced to make financial decisions about cost/benefit. Even a deeply embedded and loyal customer base can begin to be eroded away.
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James Taylor said:
So I guess we should all just switch to Verbum Now
Maybe we should all go the whole hog and cross the Tiber [:D][:D][:D]
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This is my point exactly.
"Thanks for being a loyal customer for 10+ years! Now pay us twice as much or you lose a bunch of the resources you use on a daily basis, and, by the way, you're losing a bunch of benefits!"0 -
Thomas Gette said:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.
Follow up:
Fos Zoe said:Is it possible to convert an existing Logos Now subscription to a Verbum Now subscription?
Thomas Gette said:That's a good question, and the answer is Yes.
You can contact customer service, and they will help you switch to Verbum Now from Logos Now.
Phone: 800-875-6467
Email: cs@verbum.comMac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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fgh said:
Thomas Gette said:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.
Follow up:
Fos Zoe said:Is it possible to convert an existing Logos Now subscription to a Verbum Now subscription?
Thomas Gette said:That's a good question, and the answer is Yes.
You can contact customer service, and they will help you switch to Verbum Now from Logos Now.
Phone: 800-875-6467
Email: cs@verbum.comI'd seriously recommend not getting too optimistic about this as a solution.
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I've been a Logos user for nearly 10 years and despite having spent quite a bit of money over the years, I'm talking now to someone over at Accordance to see if they have anything they can offer. Given that there may be a bunch of people jumping ship, it may be a good idea for them to create a lifeboat package for people exiting the Logos platform.
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Mattillo said:
Do all LN subscribers get access to essentials until 2/22/19?
No, different customers are receiving benefits based on multiple variables specific to that customer.
Mattillo said:I was thinking my LN expired before Feb 2019 but it seems I'll get connect until 2019... am I just lucky or is FL being generous?
Your Logos Now subscription will expire on 11/13/18, but you also have Connect Essentials, which includes all the Logos Now benefits (plus more) until 2/22/2019. You are set to NOT auto-renew, so you'll need to make a decision on what you'd like to do when that comes time. But until then, I hope you enjoy all the benefits associated with Faithlife Connect Essentials!
Mattillo said:Maybe this all hasn't been worked out on the back-end but it would be much more welcoming if it isn't an accident.
This is by design, and not an accident. Some customers may be seeing the same thing you are, some are not.
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I was thinking some more about this today.
I think what they are doing could be a great deal for some people, but probably not for everyone who commented on this thread.
Why not offer all the main services separately?
FaithLife TV may be a great option for some. I already have access through another service to almost everything that is there and quite a bit more so it doesn't interest me personally. But the service I use isn't available to individuals so what you all are doing probably does have a place.
The Faithlife Courses as a subscription is a good option for someone who doesn't want to purchase a course too.
The Faithlife Originals and Classics might be a good option for someone who wants access to those things. You could even make a seperate low cost subscription for that.
And if I were a brand new customer to Faithlife, I think the idea of a package deal that contains all of your resources ie Faithlife Connect, would be appealing.
But, I'm not a new customer. Like many, the only reason that Faithlife (In my mind you'll always be Logos) came up on my radar is because of your Logos Bible Software. That's the reason I'm here and if I'm honest, even know the company exists.
Why not do this:
1) Offer your main subscription services, Logos Now, Faithlife Courses, and Faithlife TV as separate subscriptions services.
AND
2) Offer them all as a bundle like you're trying to do with Faithlife Connect? Obviously Faithlife Connect would be the better deal if you want access to everything.
Both of them would have appeal for different people. Everyone on this thread would be happy and every new (or current) customer that wants a bundle package without all the Logos features are going to be happy.
Is the best of both worlds not possible?
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Sean said:fgh said:
Thomas Gette said:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.
Follow up:
Fos Zoe said:Is it possible to convert an existing Logos Now subscription to a Verbum Now subscription?
Thomas Gette said:That's a good question, and the answer is Yes.
You can contact customer service, and they will help you switch to Verbum Now from Logos Now.
Phone: 800-875-6467
Email: cs@verbum.comI'd seriously recommend not getting too optimistic about this as a solution.
Yep; after all, there is that word 'currently' ...
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Donnie Hale said:
What I see with that slider is: "Annual billed monthly" vs. "Month-to-month."
If I were to get Connect, I'd want "Annual billed annually."
Donnie
It seems that Essentials billed annually would be $240 ($19.99 x 12) whereas on a monthly basis it would be $24.99 (and you'd end up paying $300 at the end).
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Chris duMond said:Mattillo said:
Do all LN subscribers get access to essentials until 2/22/19?
No, different customers are receiving benefits based on multiple variables specific to that customer.
Mattillo said:I was thinking my LN expired before Feb 2019 but it seems I'll get connect until 2019... am I just lucky or is FL being generous?
Your Logos Now subscription will expire on 11/13/18, but you also have Connect Essentials, which includes all the Logos Now benefits (plus more) until 2/22/2019. You are set to NOT auto-renew, so you'll need to make a decision on what you'd like to do when that comes time. But until then, I hope you enjoy all the benefits associated with Faithlife Connect Essentials!
Mattillo said:Maybe this all hasn't been worked out on the back-end but it would be much more welcoming if it isn't an accident.
This is by design, and not an accident. Some customers may be seeing the same thing you are, some are not.
Thank you for your response Chris... I know it has been a rough 2 days thus far. I appreciate you taking the time to keep coming back and answer questions. Like most (at least from what I can see) I wasn't happy with the changes but if there is anything I've learned thus far in life is to wait it out and evaluate later. I snatched up the course on Exodus temporarily and I'm excited to dive into that. As you mentioned, I'll wait until January and see how it goes.
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Adam, your renewal date for Faithlife Connect Starter will happen on 8/8/18. Your Logos Now benefits will continue PAST that date until 11/12/18. On 11/13/18, you will only have access to the benefits in Faithlife Connect Starter.
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Chris duMond said:
On 11/13/18, you will only have access to the benefits in Faithlife Connect Starter.
Only if he renews, right?
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Chris,
I still haven't received an email. I appreciate that you guys are dealing with the fallout of this today, but it compounds the frustration and anxiety level for those of us who haven't received any communication from FL, wouldn't have known what is going on if we were not tuned into the forums, and keep reading that some customers are receiving $x while other are receiving $y. It seems like it would have made sense to send out all of the emails first and at one time. We know it's not your fault and you're just left to dealing with the fallout, but this is the type of ongoing communication blunders that us long-term customers have come to abhor and makes us anxious about what in the world is happening at FL. I know you're dealing with a million issues right now, but if possible, please check on the status of my email. Thanks for trying to reply to as many of us as possible.
Shalom
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I convinced my brother (a pastor) to get Logos many years ago. He just received the announcement email. He doesn't have time to keep up with everything Faithlife is doing, so he just sent me the following text: "What's this email about transitioning logos now to faithlife Connect? Am I getting less bang for my buck. My logos now just renewed last week."
I don't know what to tell him. He certainly does not have time to read through all of these forum posts... If Faithlife can't succinctly explain what they are doing to their core customers, something is wrong.
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If you prefer to sign up for Faithlife Connect via "Annual Billed Annually", you can do that by calling Customer Service at (888) 308-7621 or emailing customerservice@faithlife.com.
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Correct, if he unchecks auto-renew, he will not pay on 8/8/18 but he will still maintain Logos Now benefits until 11/12/18. On 11/13/18, he will not have access to anything (Now or Connect).
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Chris duMond said:
Adam, your renewal date for Faithlife Connect Starter will happen on 8/8/18. Your Logos Now benefits will continue PAST that date until 11/12/18. On 11/13/18, you will only have access to the benefits in Faithlife Connect Starter.
I'm still confused about why I would want to start paying for Faithlife Connect Starter in August if my Logos Now benefits will continue until November.
Have I misunderstood what you mean by, "As we make the transition to Faithlife Connect, you’ll maintain access to all Logos Now benefits through Nov 12, 2018." In my mind "all Logos Now benefits" means: 1) Members' Only offers; 2) Discounts on Libraries and Feature Sets; 3) Access to Logos-selected Mobile Ed course; 4) Free "classic" book each month; 5) Access to preview resources; 6) Logos 8 early release features.
If this is the case, what would be the point in paying for Faithlife Connect Starter while I'm still enjoying these benefits? If this isn't the case, can you please clarify which Logos Now benefits are included in the phrase "all Logos Now benefits"?
Sorry if I'm missing something obvious! I'm just slightly confused at this point!
(PS Chris - Thanks for being so accessible on the forums while these things are getting worked out.)
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Matthew, I have an ask to check on this. I'm sorry you haven't received any communication yet. I'll make sure to circle back on this when I find out something. You may be on a special email list that's coming directly from Customer Service as we had some customers with unique situations that we had to manually migrate and do special things for. You may be on that list. Thanks for your patience, my hope is you'll have closure sometime today.
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