Right now which is better for you Logos 4 or Libronix 3???

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122385#Comment_122385

What's a Libronix? Is that a kind of dinosaur?

Jim, in all honesty, while I get nostalgic about 3, and I would miss certain things if I thought about it, I really don't. I am not being an apologist for 4's shortcomings. There were things in 3 that drove me batty, too. Windows management was one of them (albeit small, it annoyed me). I love many new features i did not have in 3 (which I had used since 2002, well, I mean Libronix 2), like clippings. I love the look and feel.

I appreciated 3 very much, it was such an improvement over 2.1. L4 is a whole different animal, one that took me about one month, maybe 2, to get used to. but I don't long for 3 like it was better. I just think of it with fondness, like an old house I used to live in and enjoy.

Brian Davidson

When I go into Libronix in order to print something, I am always surprised at how snappy it is, how clearly the font is displayed (I think there is a thread out there somewhere about the font issues in L4), and how nice it is to be able to two-finger-scroll through resources.

But like Dan, the window management improvements of L4 keep me coming back to it for daily use. Window management is a big deal to me.

Lynden O. Williams

I use Libronix 3 mainly for Bible Speed Search. L4 is too slow in keeping up with my typing. I use L4 for everything else. Have the best of both worlds.

Jim VanSchoonhoven

Dan, I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I wanted to point out options to those that are currently frustrated with Logos 4.

As for Libronix 3 being a dinosaur, maybe your Logos 4 is different than mine, does yours print things well??? Does yours allow you to use nearly 1000 PBB files??? Is your note taking ability on par with free bible study programs??? Now maybe there is more than one dinosaur in this race? I forgot to mention Libronix 3 works well with almost all computers, that is not true of Logos 4.

Until some of these features are part of Logos 4 it is like a brand new high powered race car, it looks great, but then you notice that some of the tires are flat, and there is no way of filling them! At least for me Libronix 3 has air in the tires. At least for me it does more of what want a bible study program should do. I do have an advantage of being a hard core Libronix user and having spent lots of time and money in learning how to set it up and use the system, for those without that knowledge Logos 4 even with the current drawbacks might be better. However if a person just understands how to use the major reports in Libronix 3 it is easy to use and very powerful, but very few understand that! It takes alot of knowledge in Libronix 3 to make it more powerful than just using the major reports, but if you know how to do it, you can make it much more responsive to your needs and wants!

It is not that I don't understand how to use Logos 4, but I also understand how to use Libronix 3, I already have the knowledge to set it up right and how to use it, the problem with Logos 4 is that no amount of education or learning on my part can get it to print or give me access to my pbb files. I have to wait for it to be improved in some very basic areas, I will gladly wait and at the same time enjoy my bible studies now!

You on the other hand must be bothered by these problems, God bless you and enjoy Logos 4, some day I am sure I will join you there!

In Christ,

Jim

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122391#Comment_122391

Until some of these features are part of Logos 4 it is like a brand new high powered race car, it looks great, but then you notice that some of the tires are flat, and there is no way of filling them! At least for me Libronix 3 has air in the tires.

Jim, I know where your heart is (at tleast I think I do from the forums), and understand why you are getting frustrated as you mission goals need these things NOW not next month, and as much I want to criticise your frustration - I feel your pain - and think I understand. So I will choose to pray for you and your ministry instead.

I am a patient person (given that i am a ISFJ on the myers briggs scale), All I can say is having Emailed Bob personally I know things are moving behind the scenes, and am happy to wait in the knowledge things are headed in the right direction.. but I realilse this isnt any benefit to you and your ministry right now...

as you say thankfully Libronix is still there and working..

Dominic

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122391#Comment_122391

I just checked, and the last time I used Logos 3 was 6 December. I've not missed it at all. In fact, this post has just prompted me to uninstall it! That's probably because I've been fortunate enough to be able to invest in Logos 4 - I spend money upgrading my computer to run it, changed my smartphone to an iPhone to access books on the move, and invested time in learning how to use Logos 4 best. As a pastor, theological student and lecturer, I spend probably 40 hours a week using Logos, so I get significant return on that investment.

I don't miss PBB files (I never used them as they lacked the functionality that made them worthwhile). Believe it or not I never printed anything from Logos 3. (If you remember printing in Logos 2, that was much better!). And I use notes to… well, make notes, so I've never felt the need for fancy formatting or the like. I guess we're all different.

What do I love most about Logos 4 (over 3):

Dynamic collections/parallel resource sets
The new reverse interlinear format
Access to books on my iPhone
The way panels fit together rather than the old way of individual
windows
True multiple monitor support
Whole library search speed
Clippings
Auto-updating
The relatively quicker response to reported issues such as with metadata

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122393#Comment_122393

I will choose to pay for you and your ministry instead

Did you mean pray? [:)]

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122395#Comment_122395

I will choose to pay for you and your ministry instead

Did you mean pray?

Erm yes, given that I dont have any employment at the current time, and havent worked since before Christmas, sadly praying is about my limit for the present..

John Fugh, Jr.

I was very well trained on Libronix 3 and I really loved it, but the first day possible I upgraded to Logos 4, at first I hated it, but as more information came out I grew to love it, but since than I have gotten tired of waiting!

Hi Jim, I am with you on this. I spent the last couple days re-installing L3 on my computer because of the constant updates and lack of l3's minimal functionality. HOWEVER, I do enjoy L4 and will wait patiently for it to be completed, but in the meantime, I will use L3. I will miss clippings and windows management but unlike others, these do not outweigh the functionality of L3.

John

Floyd Johnson

Right now which is better for you Logos 4 or Libronix 3??

I would have to answer, "Yes!!" [:)]

Fred Chapman

I liked L3 a lot and at the time thought it was the best program available for my study needs. When I started using L4 I thought I may have made a mistake at first. But as I have learned to use the program, established more efficient work flows, and as Logos has continued to improve it; I would not want to go back to L3. I actually deleted L3 from my system and then reloaded it to repair the hyperlink problem in notes. On the the shell of L3 remains until Logos gets that issue resolved.

L4 has taken my study to a level I could not have imagined getting to. I anxiously anticipate where it may go in the future. So to answer your question I love L4 and do not miss L3 at all.

Pastor James

I'm currently using Logoronix 3.5[;)]

I started with the PC version a few years ago, loved it, but hated my PC, when Logos announced the Libronix version for Mac I was delighted, gave my son my pc, bought a mac and bought the Mac engine for Libronix. Currently, I use Logos 4 and Libronix 3 about the same amount. Neither are to the point that I feel comfortable using either exclusively. Part of the problem is my lack of knowledge of either systems, and I haven't had the time or desire to commit to really learning either yet. Hopefully when Logos 4 goes out of Beta and Alpha, I will commit to truly learning how to use the product, but until then I will continue to limp along.[:S]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122409#Comment_122409

I liked L3...it was a real blessing....but I LOVE L4!

I don't look with fondness at the good ol' days of L3's quirks...having to set the keylinks and then having them reset themselves for no reason...

Having to realize that keylinks had to be set in the first place?? What's up with dat?

I do look forward to the day that full printing is coded, and I'm one who's been waiting for sentence diagramming, but no...there is no nostalgia for L3 here..

John Nerdue

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122416#Comment_122416

I only use L3. L4 is to slow for me

Terry Poperszky

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122424#Comment_122424

I was thinking about this yesterday. I use L4 much more than I ever did L3, so in that instance it is better off for me. But frankly, I can't attribute that to the product, but more to the Lord is doing in my life. But here is the weird thing, I liked Logos as a company much more using L3 than I do as an L4 user.

Dave Hooton

Definitely use L4 more than L3 - which means L3 is still installed and I can remind myself about some of its great searching and keylinking abilities!

Aaron Knotts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122435#Comment_122435

TBH I have learned far more about L4 from the forums and videos and already use more of its functionality than I did L3 on my laptop. That said, I HAVE to use L3 at the office due to low specs, so I am getting more out of L3 because of my upgrade to L4.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122391#Comment_122391

Dan, I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I wanted to point out options to those that are currently frustrated with Logos 4.

As for Libronix 3 being a dinosaur, maybe your Logos 4 is different than mine, does yours print things well???

Hey Jim, I understood where you were coming from, pretty much. I should have used a smiley face on my opening sentence. I was trying to play off the name, and the fact that I haven't used L3 in so long--so I was thinking, ahh, nevermind. Attempt at a joke.

If L3 works great for you, then I am not entirely sure what bothers you, unless it is that you would like to share in the fun of L4, but can't, because of key things you use, like printing. Maybe you question whether Logos will follow through on transferring important functionality to L4 so you can switch with confidence?

I agree, printing and topic search (the L3 way), I miss somewhat. The printing and notes management is a bummer. But it really hasn't hurt my own work flow that much. And the other advantages of L4 have greatly enhanced it, though I truly had my doubts the first month or two.

I wish you well, and from what I remember about your line of ministry, it sounds very exciting and challenging. God bless you with peace and strength!

Jim R. Keener

I'm glad you made this post. I've sweated through L4 since it came out. I think I will go back to Libronix. The notes worked great in V3. Lots of other features (speed, stability, etc) are just not there in V4. Thanks for the suggestion. Logos 4 has worn me out.

Jim

Randall Hartman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122451#Comment_122451

Logos 4 is all I use. I deleted Libronix 3 and haven't looked back. In fact I am ready for Logos 5!

Tom Reynolds

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122453#Comment_122453

L3 is much better for me at this time.

I was really enjoying the new features of L4 but still using L3. I even created a post thanking Logos for making both available to us. However, after the merging indexes feature broke and then when I transitioned to the latest release the indexer kept crashing and I had to delete the index and start over from scratch and then two days later it had to do another complete index, etc. After all that I stopped using L4 and haven't looked back. One day when L4 is fixed and ready for release I will reopen it and download all the updates and reindex but for now I am loving having all the L3 features available to me. The only thing I really miss from L4 is the ease of copying verses.

My nickel's worth.

John Norman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122454#Comment_122454

I really think it is going to depend on how good your hardware is and what features you need. At this point, the only features I use that are missing in Logos 4 are PBB support and support for sharing user data with other users. PPB support is coming next quarter, and I can (and have) written programs to share user generated data if needed.

Hardware is a different issue. I really believe you need a higher-end machine (4 Gig Ram, i3 class or better dual CPUs, Windows 7 Rating of 3.5 or better) to use Logos 4 as more than an e-reader... If we could get notes support on the web access version, that would go a long ways to letting slower hardware work with our Logos Libraries in a practical sense.

If you have a powerful PC and don't use PBBs, Logos 4 is the way to go full time. Next quarter, pretty much all the features should be in Logos 4, and we should see optimizations in the quarters after that. I will probably spend most of my time in Libronix 3 because my high-end netbook bought especially for my bible classes, is just too slow for Logos 4 (at least at the moment).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122459#Comment_122459

In my experience (and others) it's a decent graphics card that makes best use of Logos, not RAM or CPU. Second most important is probably HDD speed.

Graham Owen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122511#Comment_122511

I have installed Logos 3 on my new system with a minimal set of resources primarily to use smart tags.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122391#Comment_122391

As for Libronix 3 being a dinosaur, maybe your Logos 4 is different than mine, does yours print things well??? Does yours allow you to use nearly 1000 PBB files??? Is your note taking ability on par with free bible study programs??? Now maybe there is more than one dinosaur in this race? I forgot to mention Libronix 3 works well with almost all computers, that is not true of Logos 4.

I only use L4. I never printed from L3. I hated the way it did it and found it easier to cut, paste and reformat into Word, which is the exact same way I print in L4 so no loss there. I tried to use the PBBs several times but every time I did I got frustrated. The format was always very annoying to me. Maybe I just never found the right ones but it wasn't worth my time to download and install a bunch of them in the hopes of finding one that didn't annoy me to much. As for notes they are sufficient for my needs. I will welcome every new feature but they accomplish everything I need them to. I would certainly say there are not two dinosaurs, I would say there is one dinosaur and one babe. The difference between the two is the future :-)

With L3 there was no where to go. From a marketing point of view those who were going to buy it had bought it (for the most part). Logos couldn't put out a huge marketing campaign saying "Buy Logos, we have better maps now!" Computing was quickly going in a new direction, a direction away from woowing the masses with lots of Icons and features and towards putting the intelligence into the computer rather then relying on the computer abilities of the user. A new baby had to be born and the options were either keep it in the hospital until it matured to the age of its parent or take the risk of introducing it to the World. I'm glad they introduced it because it has given me and its other users the ability to impact its development rather then to be left with the priorities of Logos.

I'm glad for those like yourself who are able to keep being blessed doing what you have been doing through L3 until L4 matures. And I'm glad for those of us who have retired L3 and are enjoying all the blessings of L4. And I'm glad for those who are being blessed with both. Growing pains are not all that pleasant, but I love babies :-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122521#Comment_122521

I would certainly say there are not two dinosaurs, I would say there is one dinosaur and one babe.

Growing pains are not all that pleasant, but I love babies :-)

Philip,

you certainly have an interesting way of putting things...(I'm now waiting for the inevitable "preemie" jokes to come"..."..L4 is like a premature baby, not fully developed!"....or...."They should put L4 in an incubator until it's ready to survive on it's own..." etc... [:(] )

Bob Schlessman

I think the most frustrating thing with Logos 4 for me is how slow and sluggish it is overall. From the moment I click on the icon to load it everything seems to go into snail mode. I use other applications such as video editors and photo editing tools and not one of them are as slow or frustrating as Logos 4. Add that to the other issues such as constant updates and reindexing that both tie up the CPU and resources and make my computer useless for any other tasks until they finish.

Just to keep things in perspective, I have L4 on my home desktop which has a Core 2 Duo E8400 and 4 gig of DDR2 1333 memory, a GT 220 graphics card with 1 gig of DDR3 video memory, and two 500 gig SATA drives running Windows 7 64 bit. Not state of the art by any means but definitely not a slouch either. Compare that to my laptop where I run L3 on a Sempron 3300+ 32 bit Windows XP, 1.2 gig DDR 333 RAM, integrated graphics and an 80 gig hard drive. L3 on my laptop runs circles around L4 on my destop. When I run L3 on my desktop it is pathetic how much faster it runs.

Include the learning curve just to even be able to use even the basics in L4 and I would have to say I prefer L3.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122544#Comment_122544

I think the most frustrating thing with Logos 4 for me is how slow and sluggish it is overall. From the moment I click on the icon to load it everything seems to go into snail mode. I use other applications such as video editors and photo editing tools and not one of them are as slow or frustrating as Logos 4. Add that to the other issues such as constant updates and reindexing that both tie up the CPU and resources and make my computer useless for any other tasks until they finish.

Just to keep things in perspective, I have L4 on my home desktop which has a Core 2 Duo E8400 and 4 gig of DDR2 1333 memory, a GT 220 graphics card with 1 gig of DDR3 video memory, and two 500 gig SATA drives running Windows 7 64 bit. Not state of the art by any means but definitely not a slouch either. Compare that to my laptop where I run L3 on a Sempron 3300+ 32 bit Windows XP, 1.2 gig DDR 333 RAM, integrated graphics and an 80 gig hard drive. L3 on my laptop runs circles around L4 on my destop. When I run L3 on my desktop it is pathetic how much faster it runs.

Include the learning curve just to even be able to use even the basics in L4 and I would have to say I prefer L3.

wow, I think you have a better set up than me! I haven't noticed a LOT of sluggishness, but I do experience it: homepage start up, or a few seconds' delay for a resource to open. I have noticed the lag in typing (notes/clippings, etc), but not lately. Of course, I have not used those much in a month, either. I also notice it VERY slow when I hover over L/N numbers on the interlinear--it takes, what, 10-20 seconds for the pop up window? A nuisance, yes, but nothing I am up in arms about.

I'll bet yours runs as fast as mine or faster, but you are just used to an even MORE snappy response on your other system hogs, compared to which Logos is "Dog-os". [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122521#Comment_122521

I'm glad for those like yourself who are able to keep being blessed doing what you have been doing through L3 until L4 matures. And I'm glad for those of us who have retired L3 and are enjoying all the blessings of L4. And I'm glad for those who are being blessed with both.

Well, and to me, that sums it up. Is there any reason we need to pursue the L3 vs. L4 any longer?

I think comments and suggestions for improvements and wish items is always in order. But we have what we have, and if L3 is useful, use it. If you prefer L4, go for it. If you want improvements, read the "missing items" and note which of your items is "in the hopper," make a suggestion if it is not there, visit the user rating site and vote for your favorite improvements, apply to work at Logos and work toward solutions as part of their team, or whatever.

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122552#Comment_122552

Philip said:

Computing was quickly going in a new direction, a direction away from woowing the masses with lots of Icons and features and towards putting the intelligence into the computer rather then relying on the computer abilities of the user. A new baby had to be born and the options were either keep it in the hospital until it matured to the age of its parent or take the risk of introducing it to the World.

-----

I think this is a key to understanding the rationale behind L4 and what will make it shine brighter than L3 ever could.

Having said that, I have not used L3 in ages. Yes, a few (and only a few) features are more sluggish in L4. For example, I remember double-clicking on an English word to bring up a dictionary definition was faster in L3. But - so what? So many other improvements mean L4 is a huge success already - and there is more still to come? I'm good.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122560#Comment_122560

some comments in this thread just underscore an issue that's puzzling to me.

Some users have "mega machines" and L4 runs like a dog...hardly usable.

Some users have "middle of the road" machines" and L4 runs fine...

Sometimes it just doesn't make sense....

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122560#Comment_122560

Philip said:

Computing was quickly going in a new direction, a direction away from woowing the masses with lots of Icons and features and towards putting the intelligence into the computer rather then relying on the computer abilities of the user. A new baby had to be born and the options were either keep it in the hospital until it matured to the age of its parent or take the risk of introducing it to the World.

-----

I think this is a key to understanding the rationale behind L4 and what will make it shine brighter than L3 ever could.

Having said that, I have not used L3 in ages. Yes, a few (and only a few) features are more sluggish in L4. For example, I remember double-clicking on an English word to bring up a dictionary definition was faster in L3. But - so what? So many other improvements mean L4 is a huge success already - and there is more still to come? I'm good.

Thank you, Ron and Philip! I most certainly concur. I still love L3 and go there often, probably just because I love it so much, and it has been a faithful friend.

However! L4 is absolutely wonderful. The wave of the future! Perhaps it is a bit slow right now ................ perhaps I DO need a more powerful computer ........... But, I do enjoy it so much and L4 will do so many things that L3 never dreamed of ...

Finally, I'm getting a bit weary of rehashing this point. I don't think that all this "rehashing" is good for any of us and certainly not good for Logos. Such wonderful people they are! *smile*

Yours in Christ,

Mel

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122526#Comment_122526

you certainly have an interesting way of putting things...(I'm now waiting for the inevitable "preemie" jokes to come"..."..L4 is like a premature baby, not fully developed!"....or...."They should put L4 in an incubator until it's ready to survive on it's own..." etc... )

I like keeping things interesting. As long was we don't start talking about abortion I think we'll be ok.

Bob Schlessman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122549#Comment_122549

wow, I think you have a better set up than me! I haven't noticed a LOT of sluggishness, but I do experience it: homepage start up, or a few seconds' delay for a resource to open. I have noticed the lag in typing (notes/clippings, etc), but not lately. Of course, I have not used those much in a month, either. I also notice it VERY slow when I hover over L/N numbers on the interlinear--it takes, what, 10-20 seconds for the pop up window? A nuisance, yes, but nothing I am up in arms about.

I'll bet yours runs as fast as mine or faster, but you are just used to an even MORE snappy response on your other system hogs, compared to which Logos is "Dog-os".

I believe you hit the nail on the head Dan. I am used to a snappier response in all of my other applications so therefore I am somewhat spoiled. Be that as it may, I am not totally down on Logos 4, just a little disappointed that it takes me longer to accomplish the same tasks than it did with L3. As I mentioned in my previous post, part of it is learning curve on my part and that will improve with time. But part of it is the enormity of Logos 4 just overwhelms the hardware. As is the case with many other apps whether it be games, graphics design tools or CAD/CAM, the hardware will catch up (I suspect it already has in the latest systems) and Logos 4 will be (is) the jewel its designers intended for it to be. In the meantime my laptop will never see it installed. I will eventually upgrade my desktop but until then I will keep L3 installed as a bakup for those times when I am in a rush to accomplish the most.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122570#Comment_122570

I like keeping things interesting. As long was we don't start talking about abortion I think we'll be ok.

On the other hand, I have sometimes wondered if LOGOS might be better off dropping L4 and moving to L5 - Microsoft did it with Vista, why not LOGOS with Version 4. Frederick Brooks once wrote:

“Where a new system concept or new technology is used, one has to build a system to throw away, for even the best planning is not so omniscient as to get it right the first time. Hence plan to throw one away; you will, anyhow.”

I don't expect them to do this - but it has been done before.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122590#Comment_122590

Microsoft did it with Vista

Microsoft didn't 'drop' Vista when they released Windows 7, any more than they dropped Windows 95 when the released Windows 98.

If there is an L5, it's unlikely to be several years away, and the differences between it and L4 are probably going to be influenced by changes to hardware and useage (particularly if portable Windows - think HP Slate - really takes off).

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/122590#Comment_122590

On the other hand, I have sometimes wondered if LOGOS might be better off dropping L4 and moving to L5 - Microsoft did it with Vista, why not LOGOS with Version 4. Frederick Brooks once wrote:

as the previous commenter stated Windows did not drop Vista. In fact the could never have gotten to 7, the best Windows I've ever used, if they had not had a Vista. Vista Was a "start from scratch" product. Windows 7 was a "Now that the hard work is done, this should be easy" product. If Logos were to quickly say "this isn't working, we better start over again" Logos 5 will be another Windows Vista experience rather than a windows 7 experience.