Multiview Resources – ESV OT + HDNT

I'd like to have the HDNT display for NT references, but switch to the the ESV for OT. Is there any way that I can limit the Multiview to a particular part of a resource, e.g. only the OT part of the ESV? I've already tried:

Simply adding the ESV to the Multiview configuration; but then for NT references, both the ESV and the HDNT are displayed, which is a redundant use of screen real-estate.
Adding an English OT-only resource (e.g. LES) instead of the ESV is functional; but because the HDNT uses the ESV text, it makes more sense for it to fall back to the ESV for OT references.

Thanks,
-Pete

P.S. There seems to be a terminology bug/inconsistency: the Logos Pro video calls this the "Multiview" resources tool, but the L7 GUI has a "Multiple resources" tooltip for the feature.

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

Series:"Lexham High Definition Bible" has NT and OT ESV:

FYI: Discourse features are now usable in many Bibles (using datasets).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Philana R. Crouch

I'd like to have the HDNT display for NT references, but switch to the the ESV for OT. Is there any way that I can limit the Multiview to a particular part of a resource, e.g. only the OT part of the ESV? I've already tried:

Simply adding the ESV to the Multiview configuration; but then for NT references, both the ESV and the HDNT are displayed, which is a redundant use of screen real-estate.

Adding an English OT-only resource (e.g. LES) instead of the ESV is functional; but because the HDNT uses the ESV text, it makes more sense for it to fall back to the ESV for OT references.

Thanks,
-Pete

P.S. There seems to be a terminology bug/inconsistency: the Logos Pro video calls this the "Multiview" resources tool, but the L7 GUI has a "Multiple resources" tooltip for the feature.

Hi Pete,

There are two options that might be used; it might not be quite what you want.

There is a Discourse Visual Filter for both Greek and Hebrew that can be applied to Bibles with RI’s. You could apply this to the ESV. You could open the ESV and only turn it on for the NT.

Or you could use the ESV as your main Bible, and then have the HDNT and HDOT set as your multi-view resource.

I hope this is helpful.

Blessings,

Philana

Pete De Bonte

To clarify my situation/library:

I have the HDNT and ESV.
I am aware that a HDOT exists, but I don't have it and it isn't even available for purchase anymore.
As for L7, I have only the SFS, so I don't have the discourse visual filters.

Regardless, I was really hoping that one could (or if not, call this a feature request/suggestion) configure the Multiview Resources tool to use only part of a resource. My ESV OT + HDNT seemed like a good example, but maybe also someone might appreciate only particular parts of a one-volume commentary. One way to think about it (but certainly not the only way), would be to to allow prioritization of resources in the Multiview, e.g. in one of the Multiview columns, always display this resource if it contains the passage, and then fallback to this other resource when it doesn't.

FWIW,
-Pete

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973596#Comment_973596

so I don't have the discourse visual filters.

Discourse datasets are in bundle => Lexham Discourse Bible (8 vols.) that is included in => Logos 7 Extended Feature Set and => Logos 7 Essential Upgrade (L) (with dynamic pricing, one of these may be attractive).

An alternative for ESV OT could be Lexham English Septuagint

Another workaround idea is using HDNT with another NT only Bible: e.g. The New Testament: An Expanded Translation (bit verbose for verbal rendering) or The New Testament in Modern Speech: An Idiomatic Translation into Everyday English from the Text of “The Resultant Greek Testament”

Regardless, I was really hoping that one could (or if not, call this a feature request/suggestion) configure the Multiview Resources tool to use only part of a resource.

Confirmed Advanced Prioritization has no effect on Multiview Resources (verse not in Bible verse Range prioritization is displayed in Multiview). Also confirmed MultiView shows all resources that have Bible verse.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Philana R. Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973596#Comment_973596

As for L7, I have only the SFS, so I don't have the discourse visual filters.

Pete,

Can you clarify what you mean by SFS?

As for Multi-view resources, the main resource is what is called the host resource and can't change. There are two options.
Option 1
You would need to set a multi-view resource set with the ESV as the host with the ESVNT as a guest, it would still display the two resources when you are open to a New Testament passage.

Option 2
If what you want is when you click on a reference link to the OT for it open just the ESV and then for a link to the NT to open up the HDNT you could prioritize the resources in your library using advanced prioritization. You can use the settings shown in my screenshot. The only difference is you will only have the one resource.

I hope this helps.

Philana

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973860#Comment_973860

Philana,

L7 SFS was my shorthand for Logos 7 Starter Feature Set. I also have datasets from the L4 and L5 Crossgrades, but only the Starter features from L7.

Option 2
If what you want is when you click on a reference link to the OT for it open just the ESV and then for a link to the NT to open up the HDNTThat is what I wanted; however…

you could prioritize the resources in your library using advanced prioritization. You can use the settings shown in my screenshot. The only difference is you will only have the one resource.

…although I copied the advanced prioritization of the ESV and HDNT shown your screenshot, the HDNT and ESV didn't seem to function any differently for me. How do you use this once you've configured it? Do I presume correctly that "you will only have the one resource" means that your technique is incompatible with the Multi-view feature?

Thanks : )
-Pete

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974089#Comment_974089

although I copied the advanced prioritization of the ESV and HDNT shown your screenshot, the HDNT and ESV didn't seem to function any differently for me.

As KS4J states above, and I also confirm it, advanced prioritization does not work with Multiview. Nor does it work with Parallel Resources. It is intended to work with bible references (links) in a resource, so that your preferred bible(s) can be selected to view the passage.

Philana R. Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973860#Comment_973860

As for L7, I have only the SFS, so I don't have the discourse visual filters.

Option 2
If what you want is when you click on a reference link to the OT for it open just the ESV and then for a link to the NT to open up the HDNT you could prioritize the resources in your library using advanced prioritization.

Pete,

To clarify option 2 was meant to be an alternative to using multi-view. It would trigger the resource based on the Bible reference you clicked on. If you want to use multi-view, you would have to have the ESV with the HDNT opened in multi-view when a NT passage is opened.

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974337#Comment_974337

Thanks Dave & Philana, for the clarification. I'd seen KS4J's note that it wouldn't work with the Multiview feature, but I didn't understand Philana's distinction at the time.

So, then, I'd like to suggest Advanced Prioritization for Multiview as a future feature.

Thanks again,
-Pete

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974413#Comment_974413

So, then, I'd like to suggest Advanced Prioritization for Multiview as a future feature.

It's not clear what this means. Multiview shows all resources from the set you've selected in the order you specify that contain the active reference. Prioritization doesn't enter into the issue at all, and I'm not clear on how it would.

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974415#Comment_974415

Andrew,
OK. I can summarize this thread for you. I'm essentially requesting the ability limit the Multiview usage of a particular resource to a subset of that resource. Some people (e.g. KS4J) viewed my request as if applying Advanced Prioritization to Multiview. The examples that I gave were having, as Multiview participants:

only the OT part of the ESV (and then I'd use the HDNT for the NT).
only the coverage of particular books of the Bible from a particular one-volume commentary

Thanks,
-Pete

Andrew Batishko

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974417#Comment_974417

Hmm... so instead of showing all resources in the selected set, you only want to show only the one with the highest priority.

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974425#Comment_974425

Although I actually hadn't thought of Advanced Prioritization when I originally posted, I suppose that would be one way to do it.

My original thought, however, was to include all applicable resources, but allow the user to specify the applicable reference ranges for each included resource, e.g.

for an OT reference, use resources {A,B,C}, but for a NT use {A,Y,Z}, even if all of those resources cover the entire Bible.
Or perhaps I'm a fan how the Psalms are translated in a particular Bible, so I'd like to include it in my Multiview whenever I go to the Psalms, yet exclude it from the Multiview for all other references

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974427#Comment_974427

My original thought, however, was to include all applicable resources, but allow the user to specify the applicable reference ranges for each included resource

In theory that could work, but there are some difficulties

it would have to be considered for Parallel Resource sets; where Prioritization determines resource order, but Advanced Prioritization for a Range is not applied
It's use in Multiview may conflict/differ with your use for Prioritization i.e. have an Advanced Prioritization restricted to Multiview

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974473#Comment_974473

OK, if implementing my feature suggestion via Advanced Prioritization isn't practical, let's drop the Advanced Prioritization idea.

THE GOAL: I'd simply like to request that Multiview somehow be made more flexible so I could add only part of a resource to it.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974491#Comment_974491

So what you are wanting is for FL to redesign the software because the HDOT is no longer available to purchase and the replacemen for the HDOT is to expensive for you to purchase. It’s going to take time, effort and money for FL to do that Software’s redesign. Seems to me the simple solution would be for someone at FL to make the call and grant you a license so you have access to the HDOT, Your needs will be met much sooner and FL will be saved a whole lot of trouble at looking at another change to the software which might not happen anytime soon, if at all. Happy Customer, Happy Developer. Everybody wins. Just my simple view from looking at the problem from the outside in instead of the inside out.

OK, if implementing my feature suggestion via Advanced Prioritization isn't practical, let's drop the Advanced Prioritization idea.

THE GOAL: I'd simply like to request that Multiview somehow be made more flexible so I could add only part of a resource to it.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974491#Comment_974491

THE GOAL: I'd simply like to request that Multiview somehow be made more flexible so I could add only part of a resource to it.

Another place for Range selectivity is "Send Hyperlinks Here"

Tab could receive Old Testament hyperlinks
Tab could receive New Testament hyperlinks
Tab could receive Deuterocanonlical hyperlinks

Multiview shows resource(s) when active location is in those resource(s) while search shows all Resources in Verses view:

Having one column for custom Bible series with original Language resources would reduce white space (by 1/3). Column header could have series. Before showing series in one column, code could check that Bible resource Ranges do not overlap.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/974606#Comment_974606

So what you are wanting is for FL to redesign the software because the [the alternative] is to expensive for you to purchase.…

Sarcasm?

I tried to pose this as something that might be useful for others, as well. If I could, I'd rename the thread.

I think KS4J was also posing another application with his "Send Hyperlinks Here" screenshot, above; but for yet another example,
how about a Multiview column using:

OT: Lexham English Septuagint
NT: Lexham English Bible

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/973596#Comment_973596

One way to think about it (but certainly not the only way), would be to to allow prioritization of resources in the Multiview, e.g. in one of the Multiview columns, always display this resource if it contains the passage, and then fallback to this other resource when it doesn't.

Put this way, I think this is a reasonable and useful request - especially for people who set multivews for resources with differing canons.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975165#Comment_975165

Pete no sarcasm was intended so accept my apologies if you took it that way. If you read what I actually said I was offering a solution outside of the box that was cost effective for you and cost and time effective for FL. What might seem like a simple change in he surface could actually require a lot of code change because of the flow on effects of the change you are suggesting. Whether you are willing to accept my word or not, there was no judgement of you intended by what I said, I was simply someone standing from the outside looking at the problem with a different perspective and I stand by my belief if you had access to the HDOT in the firstplace that you may have never suggested this change to software. And this change is not like to happen any time soon while with my solution your problem could be resolved very quickly.

in addition such a change will only increase the complexity of the software. FL have generally been resistant to increasing user choice in the software as that they always say leads to increased after sales support costs. Hence once again I go back to my solution of granting you a license to access the HDOT as the quickest and most cost and time effective solution to your initial problem.

If FL decide there is merit in what you are suggesting, now that you have suggested it, that still could be looked at, while your immediate problen is dealt with immediately if you get access to HDOT.

So what you are wanting is for FL to redesign the software because the [the alternative] is to expensive for you to purchase.…

Sarcasm?

I tried to pose this as something that might be useful for others, as well. If I could, I'd rename the thread.

I think KS4J was also posing another application with his "Send Hyperlinks Here" screenshot, above; but for yet another example,
how about a Multiview column using:

OT: Lexham English Septuagint

NT: Lexham English Bible

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975207#Comment_975207

Whether you are willing to accept my word or not, there was no judgement of you intended by what I said,

I am certainly willing to accept it. Thanks. : )

I stand by my belief if you had access to the HDOT in the firstplace that you may have never suggested this change to software

That is true, as I've been using the HDNT for a couple years now, and a full Bible + HDNT was my first Multiview application, which has made it easier to use when I am switching between NT and OT passages (thanks Faithlife! : ), but I think this suggestion could make it even better (btw, I'm also a programmer : )

I go back to my solution of granting you a license to access the HDOT as the quickest and most cost and time effective solution to your initial problem.

I do appreciate Faithlife's generosity with free resources and HDOT access certainly would be a generous gift (I do enjoy Steve Runge's stuff : ). On the other hand, I also certainly wouldn't expect that, and simply giving the HDOT to me it wouldn't help others (e.g. MJ who would like to apply my idea "for resources with differing canons.")

Adam Borries (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975204#Comment_975204

One way to think about it (but certainly not the only way), would be to to allow prioritization of resources in the Multiview, e.g. in one of the Multiview columns, always display this resource if it contains the passage, and then fallback to this other resource when it doesn't.

Put this way, I think this is a reasonable and useful request - especially for people who set multivews for resources with differing canons.

Reasonable and useful, agreed. I suspect, however, that even within the narrow scope of Multiview there are other features that would be more widely appreciated. For instance:

A one-click toggle on/off.
A better resource picker UI (which would also apply to Text Comparison)

Pete, thanks for this idea. Would you do me a favor and post it at https://logos.uservoice.com, so we can better gauge user interest against other feature requests?

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975222#Comment_975222

Whether you are willing to accept my word or not, there was no judgement of you intended by what I said,
I am certainly willing to accept it. Thanks. : )
I stand by my belief if you had access to the HDOT in the firstplace that you may have never suggested this change to software
That is true, as I've been using the HDNT for a couple years now, and a full Bible + HDNT was my first Multiview application, which has made it easier to use when I am switching between NT and OT passages (thanks Faithlife! : ), but I think this suggestion could make it even better (btw, I'm also a programmer : )
I go back to my solution of granting you a license to access the HDOT as the quickest and most cost and time effective solution to your initial problem.

I do appreciate Faithlife's generosity with free resources and HDOT access certainly would be a generous gift (I do enjoy Steve Runge's stuff : ). On the other hand, I also certainly wouldn't expect that, and simply giving the HDOT to me it wouldn't help others (e.g. MJ who would like to apply my idea "for resources with differing canons.")

👍

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975278#Comment_975278

Pete, thanks for this idea. Would you do me a favor and post it at https://logos.uservoice.com, so we can better gauge user interest against other feature requests?

Well, based on the length of this thread, I've clearly had difficulty conveying this idea. Anyone with experience writing successful UserVoice post(s) want to propose how to phrase it?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975529#Comment_975529

Without requiring the range specification to come from Advanced Prioritization, you could phrase the request like:-

Allow a display Range for resources in Multiview

Allow a datatype range to be specified that would limit the information displayed by a given resource in the Multiview e.g. only display the resource in a Multiview column if the active reference is within the specified range. This would restrict use of the resource similar to "in this range" in Advanced Prioritization.

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/975541#Comment_975541

datatype range

Thanks for giving it a shot, Dave, but what's a "datatype range"? This thread is the only hit that Google has on Logos.com for that phrase, so I'm presuming we'd need to choose a more common description if people are to be inclined to vote for this feature.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/976097#Comment_976097

Thanks for giving it a shot, Dave, but what's a "datatype range"?

You could use "reference range" to tie in with the rest of the description e.g. Mt-Rev, Louw Nida 12.1–12.10, Greek Strong's 1-10

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/976241#Comment_976241

Wow, 2 months have passed and I still haven't gotten over the presumed bother of having to create a UserVoice account. Tonight I finally tried posting this to confirm that I really must create an account. Yup.

Regardless, any feedback on the following description, which I expanded from Dave's draft? (Thanks : )

I suggest you…
Allow a reference range for resources in Multiview

Allow a reference range to be specified for a resource that would limit when a resource will be displayed in the Multiview panel. For example, lets say we have Bible A with Apocrypha as the main resource, and add the following Multiview resources:

Bible B without Apocrypha: include for any passage that it contains.
Bible C with Apocrypha: include only for Apocrypha references

Thus, the resultant Multiview panel would always display 2 and only 2 columns:

Bibles A&B for non-Apocrypha
Bibles A&C for the Apocrypha

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/984822#Comment_984822

Regardless, any feedback on the following description,

The description is clear. Post the suggestion to Uservoice. You should be able to use your Logos account to sign in.

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/984824#Comment_984824

The description is clear. Post the suggestion to Uservoice. You should be able to use your Logos account to sign in.

Thanks Dave, but my Logos account doesn't satisfy it, and creating an account involves pages of ToS.

Might anyone who already has a Logos.UserVoice.com account mind pasting what I wrote there?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/994435#Comment_994435

Done - https://logos.uservoice.com/forums/42823-logos-bible-software-7/suggestions/35369137-allow-a-reference-range-for-resources-in-multiview

Pete De Bonte

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/994543#Comment_994543

Thank you! : )