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I am trying to find all the verses where God is described as being faithful. I have tried <Person God> INTERSECT faithful but this does not pick up 1 Cor. 10:13 or a few others. Is there a different search that will find all verses whether it is God, Lord, He, etc? Thanks for any suggestions.

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Beloved Amodeo

I am trying to find all the verses where God is described as being faithful. I have tried <Person God> INTERSECT faithful but this does not pick up 1 Cor. 10:13 or a few others. Is there a different search that will find all verses whether it is God, Lord, He, etc? Thanks for any suggestions.

Hi Leigh,

This is not perfect, but it picks up 1 Co 10.13 try <Person God> WITHIN 3 WORDS <Lemma = lbs/el/πιστός>

PetahChristian

I have tried <Person God> INTERSECT faithful

The issue (which I don't understand) hinges on the INTERSECTS operator. For some reason, faithful and God rarely overlap. (For example, I tried (<Sense = faithfulness> OR <Sense faithful>) INTERSECTS <Person God> but only got 7 results.)

Perhaps an MVP can explain what's going on.

In the meantime, try (<Sense = faithfulness> OR <Sense faithful>) NEAR <Person God>. It's not perfect, as NEAR also includes occurrences of peoples' faithfulness to God, but it returns a lot more verses about God's faithfulness.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/989381#Comment_989381

The issue (which I don't understand) hinges on the INTERSECTS operator. For some reason, faithful and God rarely overlap.

Why would discrete words overlap? A word may overlap with text, but not with another word e.g God has an overlap with "God is faithful" (text), so you could search for God INTERSECTS "God is faithful", but it is meaningless! God NOT INTERSECTS "God is faithful" will exclude that phrase from occurrences of "God".

So I would approach this query as a proximity search, even if <Person God> can be treated as text e.g. "the Lord". <Person God> AND <Lemma = lbs/el/πιστός> will give you an idea about word proximity, and show how <Person God> is tagged. So you will note Heb 10.23 and 1 Peter 4:19 as the only passages where "faithful" is tagged as "God". This constitutes an overlap for INTERSECTS, and faithful is even WITHIN <Person God> (but not the other way).

To get all the results in one query, you can use <Person God> WITHIN 0-3 WORDS <Lemma = lbs/el/πιστός>

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/989474#Comment_989474

Why would discrete words overlap?

Sorry, Dave, I'm still new to this, and didn't use the proper terminology. I meant tags overlapping.

I guess my question is about a) uniformity, and b) many, many fewer results when using INTERSECTS.

If you look at tagging, the word "faithful" in Ps 31:5 is also tagged <Person God>, yet a similar "faithful" in Deut 32:4 is not tagged <Person God>.

Similar discrepancies happen with expressions like "[God] is faithful" where Heb 10:23 intersects, but 1 Cor 1:9 and 2 Cor 1:18 don't intersect.

It seems strange to me that a proximity search returns 100s of results about God's faithfulness, but an INTERSECTS search only returns 7 results.

Shouldn't "faithful" also be tagged as God when it is directly describing Him?

Thanks for any insight you can offer, regarding how these words should or shouldn't be tagged.

Beloved Amodeo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/989474#Comment_989474

To get all the results in one query, you can use <Person God> WITHIN 0-3 WORDS <Lemma = lbs/el/πιστός>

Learning again from Dave, here's another interesting Search query: <Person God> WITHIN 0-3 WORDS (<Lemma = lbs/el/πιστός> OR <Lemma = lbs/he/אמן:1> OR <Lemma = lbs/he/אֱמוּנָה>)

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/989515#Comment_989515

Why would discrete words overlap?

Sorry, Dave, I'm still new to this, and didn't use the proper terminology. I meant tags overlapping.

No apology necessary. I used that to clarify the discussion on searching for <Person God> and "faithful".

The INTERSECTS operator wasn't introduced to facilitate searches on "attributes" expressed by the tagging for <Person>, <Thing>, or <Place>. A search like faithful NOT INTERSECTS <Person God> or "city of God" NOT INTERSECTS <Place Jerusalem> will better show the magnitude of the assumption.

The tagging is done on verbs, pronouns and adjectives, but mainly to facilitate identification (or referents). There is error and inconsistency in this, however e.g. Dt 7:9 (ESV) "the Lord your God is God, the faithful God who keeps covenants and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, to a thousand generations,". The underlined words are the only ones NOT tagged for <Person God>! Verse 10 is similar, even tagging "those who hate him". In 1 Cor 10:13 and 2 Cor 1:18 "faithful" is not tagged, but it is not an error.

Use INTERSECTS if you are looking for an overlap between a word/phrase and what is clearly text e.g. {Speaker <Person God>}. In that context you can look to see where God talks about Jesus e.g. <Person Jesus> INTERSECTS {Speaker <Person God>}, or where God talks about Jerusalem e.g. <Place Jerusalem> INTERSECTS {Speaker <Person God>}. Note that WITHIN better conveys your intent here, but both operators provide the same result.

Then you can see if there is overlap between sets of text e.g. {Section <Culture Sanctions>} INTERSECTS {Speaker <Person God>}, where God is talking about sanctions. This is where WITHIN can go wrong because the order of the terms is important.

Leigh Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/989588#Comment_989588

I had thought that using Person God INTERSECTS faithful would pick up all the verses where God is described as being faithful, no matter how God is referred to (i.e. Lord, he, etc.). It looks like some of the verses do not have the tags. In 1 John 1:9 'he' is not tagged as referring to God, even though in verse 10 'him' and 'his' are tagged.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/989701#Comment_989701

I had thought that using Person God INTERSECTS faithful would pick up all the verses where God is described as being faithful, no matter how God is referred to (i.e. Lord, he, etc.).

The referent (God, Lord, he, etc.) is tagged from the SBLGNT & LHB bibles, and then applied to the text of your reverse interlinear bible. Therefore, the tagging will not apply to words that were inserted for clarity. If we look at 1 Jn 1:9 (ESV):

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The verbs "forgive" and "cleanse" are the only words tagged for "God". The underlined words were inserted. In this case, I might expect the adjective "faithful" to be tagged because it is as much a referent as the verbs. But I would not expect it to be tagged if "he" was a pronoun in the original language.