Resources about the recommended Name to use in prayer.
Dr. Breshears of Western Seminary in an online theology primer lecture talked about God:
He is personal, involved, wanting a relation with us, and He has a Name.
In his view, God, Theos, etc. puts some distance between us.
Abba was used by Jesus and encouraged us to do the same.
But he personally thinks God's Name is Yahweh, although we are not sure how to pronounce it.
He encouraged us to think about the way we pray, and the Name or term we use.
I used to worry about the name, fully cognizant that the right one is Yahweh, although we probably do not know how to pronounce it right.
Then in the NT the Name above every other name became: Yahshua Messiah or something in that line.
I did notice that the Apostles had no problem calling the incarnated Son: Iesous Cristos. So I guess is fine to use Jesus Christ.
Analyzing the way I pray I usually mention Dios (Spanish equivalent to God) and then add in Jesus Christ at the end.
Now that Dr. Breshears called our attention, I would like to know if you know of a resource that deals with the topic, and your personal opinion on the right way to call / mention God in prayer.
In a quick search I found:
"But after you are satisfied, give thanks thus: “We give thanks to you, O holy Father, for your holy name, which you caused to dwell in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality that you made known to us through Jesus your child. To you be glory forever. You, Lord Almighty, made all things for your name’s sake, and gave food and drink to humans for their enjoyment, that they might give thanks to you, but you have blessed us with spiritual food and drink and eternal light through your child."
McGowan, A. B. (2014). Ancient Christian Worship: Early Church Practices in Social, Historical, and Theological Perspective (p. 37). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic.
Is interesting that they used Father and Jesus in Eucharistic prayers.
Thanks for sharing your mind in this topic ahead of time.
Comments
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Spangler, Ann. Praying the Names of Jesus: A Daily Guide. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2009.
Vander Meulen, Elizabeth L., and Barbara D. Malda. His Names Are Wonderful: Getting to Know God through His Hebrew Names. Baltimore, MD: Messianic Jewish Publishers, 2005.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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What matters the most is the heart/motive of prayer
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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God’s name is not some magical formula. See Matthew 6:5-15
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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Thank you MJ.
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Hi Keith:
Agree, but as you see out of respect I mention your very name: Keith. I do not say "right dude" nor "correct Mr. Pang", because that would be disrespectful in the former, and impersonal in the latter.
And that is the point I think Dr. Breshears is trying to make, beside respect, the mark of personal relation is calling someone by first name.
So the argument Dr. Breshears is that we should call our Divine Father by His name: Yahweh.
Some argue that Yahshua (meaning God saves) is the NT Name of God.
In my view Dr. Breshears has a point.
You are correct that motives / intentions are very important, but so is proper protocol, we are addressing the very creator of all that exists.
Peace and grace.
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True I agree with you. Was not attacking what you were posting, I was just stating what matters the most is the heart and intent of prayer. I believe you mentioned the names we can address God by, which is Abba, Yahweh, Yeshua, Jesus, etc.
Shalom.
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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You might want to check out Praying Through the Names of God.
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https://www.logos.com/product/3904/the-messianic-bible-study-collection
includes 9 lectures on prayer - from the Jewish Messianic point of view - with why why
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Thank you seeHisFace for the link:
1) Dr. Breshears was introduced to me by Faithlife, thus I think is within acceptable limits to comment on something I have not though about and came to the limelight thanks to him.
2) Without getting into a theological discussion, I wonder why some groups say Yahshua and others say Yeshua as the Name of God in the NT. (actually saying Yahweh saves).
3) I was wondering if there is a particular resource in L7 that explains the above variants.
4) if any of the above is considered a violation of guidelines, I apologize.
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Thank you Rosie.
I know you are a very knowledgeable person, I do understand there are different names that describe different divine qualities of God.
My question to you: In your understanding, The Name above every other name in the NT refers to the ultimate? Yahshua (Yahweh saves), so my doubt now is if it suffices to pray in Jesus (western equivalent of Yahshua) Christ name, or if we should continue to pray:
Divine Father, thank you for your grace, mercy and love, help us get to your side even stumbling in the holiness highway (like fools that we are), with the help of the Holy Spirit, for your Glory, and in Jesus Christ name amen.
The objective is trying to be respectful, reverent and personal.
If you know of a resource that goes into this in particular (I will check the one you recommended), please let me know.
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Thank you Thomas:
I do have the resource, I do not understand why some Messianics use Jehovah, when seems Yahweh more correct (mentioned by Dr. Breshears too).
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I suspect that in eternity we will be surprised that the old Christians were right ;-)Please "excuse me", but Arnold Fuchtenbaum - a Jew who has found to Christ (as well as the unrevised Elberfelder 1905) uses this name as the name of God and he also explained in a seminar why:
Although we do not know exactly how the name was pronounced earlier due to the writing style of the Jews (the Jews themselves do not pronounce it at all), we know that most of the Bible's names that have a "je" in it are of derived from the name of God, such as Jesus, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jeshua- just to name a few
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Arnold Fruchtenbaum referred to his Bible in his answer and therefore always pronounced it as Jehovah- every translator into German said it differently ...0 -
Search
([field heading,largetext] Jehovah) WITHIN 11 WORDS Adonai
results included The Book of Genesis Made Easy
WHAT ABOUT “JEHOVAH” AND “YAHWEH”?
The word “Jehovah” does not appear in Hebrew. The personal name for God, which God revealed to Moses is “Yahweh”. It means, “The One who is always present”. This word was so holy that the Israelites never said it aloud. To remind them, they wrote the consonants YHWH (for Yahweh), and the vowels of Adonai, which means “Lord”. When they spoke of God they said, “Adonai”, meaning Lord.
YHWH + Adonai = Jehovah
• From “YHWH” translators took the letter Y, (which was often read as “J’),
J
• with the first vowel of Adonai (which was often read as “e”).
E
• They took the second consonant from “YHWH”, “H”,
H
• with the second vowel from Adonai, “O”.
O
• They took the third consonant from “YHWH”, “W”, (often read as “V”),
V
• with the third vowel from Adonai, “a.”
A
• Finally, they took the last consonant from “YHWH” “H.”
H
So the resulting hybrid word is “Jehovah.” Some translations now use Yahweh. Others translations insert Lord, using small capitals.
Water, Mark. 2000. The Book of Genesis Made Easy. (The Made Easy Series). Alresford, Hampshire: John Hunt Publishers Ltd.
Hamilton Ramos said:Analyzing the way I pray I usually mention Dios (Spanish equivalent to God) and then add in Jesus Christ at the end.
Personal quirk is closing prayer in holy name of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus Christ
Similar approach for opening prayer: Abba, Father, Daddy
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Yes I understand what the Jehovah try to say, but does not make much sense when en reality the Bible says:
Jah, Isaiah (ends in Iah not jeh), same for Jeremiah, Joshua seems to be the exception and Iesous (is alliteration into another language).
When we say praise God, we say hallelujah (ending in Jah, not jeh), etc.
I will check the resources you have mentioned.
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Thank you Ks4Jesus, exactly what I was thinking about. I do have the resource, but did not occur to me do a search the way you did.
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I have three Jewish reference works, and in all three you do not find Yahweh but Jehovah - perhaps that is why the use - I do not know
TheJPS Dictionary of Jewish WordsThe Complete Jewish Study Bible Notes
TheJewish Encyclopedia
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"Some people render the four-letter Name as "Jehovah," but this pronunciation is particularly unlikely. The word "Jehovah" comes from the fact that ancient Jewish texts used to put the vowels of the Name "Adonai" (the usual substitute for YHVH) under the consonants of YHVH to remind people not to pronounce YHVH as written. A sixteenth century German Christian scribe, while transliterating the Bible into Latin for the Pope, wrote the Name out as it appeared in his texts, with the consonants of YHVH and the vowels of Adonai, and came up with the word JeHoVaH ("J" is pronounced "Y" in German), and the name stuck."
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thomas Pape said:
I have three Jewish reference works, and in all three you do not find Yahweh but Jehovah - perhaps that is why the use - I do not know
TheJPS Dictionary of Jewish WordsThe Complete Jewish Study Bible Notes
TheJewish Encyclopedia
Searching JPS Dictionary of Jewish Words for Jehovah OR Yahweh finds four results while YHVH search has two results
Searching Complete Jewish Study Bible for Jehovah OR Yahweh finds three results while YHVH search has 39 results
Searching Jewish Encyclopedia for Jehovah finds 1,180 results Yahweh search has 1,136 results and YHVH search has zero results, but YHWH search has 1,231 results
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Excellent search Ks4Jesus.
How would you go about searching about the name Joshua in L7? To my understanding, is the same name that Jesus had.
I think I read the correct name is Yahshua (Yahweh saves), but if I am not mistaken BK mentioned something about a vowel shift that made all names with a be pronounced as e. Thus Yahshua became Yeshua.
If that hypothesis is correct, a human culture caused vowel shift, does not make the new pronounced Name authoritative.
Thanks ahead of time for the input.
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Have you considered looking at the prayers in the New Testament? How do the inspired writers refer to the One to Whom they are praying? I think that would be a better place to start.
In Jesus' model prayer (the Lord's Prayer), He teaches us to pray to "Our Father in heaven" ("Padre nuestro que estas en los cielos"). I think that's a good place to start.
God has many names in Scripture, and it's never inappropriate to use them in our prayer life. However, we are also in a relationship with Him that is like that of Father and child (cf. Rom.8:15). I wouldn't call my dad by his first name; I call him dad because that acknowledges the place I am in relation to Him. So Father, or the Aramaic equivalent "Abba" would also be appropriate.
I once spoke with a Jehovah Witness and offered to pray with her. She refused unless I would address God as "Jehovah." I suggested that we address God the way Jesus taught us "Our Father in heaven." She still refused, suggesting that unless I was praying to "Jehovah" I was praying to the wrong "god." That's really sad.
I guess my point here is that I don't think we need to get all tied up in the names of God (as interesting and helpful as they are!). Just pray, and when we need a name (not all NT prayers address God directly, as in "I pray that...") "Father" or "Our Father" is all we need. I'm not saying that I'm against using other Names for God when we pray; I'm saying we don't need them.Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Thanks Rich, you gave me some ideas.
Found the following:
Lord of the excluded,
Open my ears to those I would prefer not to hear,
Open my life to those I would prefer not to know,
Open my heart to those I would prefer not to love,
And so open my eyes to see
Where I exclude You.—Iona Abbey Prayer
From:
https://ebooks.faithlife.com/products/12697/the-pocket-book-of-prayers
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