Package buying tactics

When Logos 7 came out I worked out (too late for most of the denominations) that you saved money by buying packages in individual increments rather than going for the top one.

For instance buy bronze, then silver, then gold etc all the way up to collectors rather than just buying collectors to start with.

The savings were actually quite substantial but it does seem a bit counterintuitive that you should do it this way.

Does anyone else have the same experience?

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Comments

Glenn Crouch

Yes I did notice it at least sometimes - where I couldn't afford say Gold, I grabbed Silver - and then in a few days some extra money come my way and the upgrade from Silver to Gold was less (allowing for the price of Silver) then it was for buying gold. I think I noticed this at least 3 times. I wouldn't think that this was guaranteed - and given that the prices vary as component prices change, just cause it wored out that way is no guarantee it will the next [;)]

Robert M. Warren

I have a medium-sized library (~4600 non-PB resources accumulated over 10 years). I have long speculated on the same theory, but I have not formally analyzed it. My natural tendency is to 'side-grade' here and there to build a library. I'm not a pastor or student, so I have general interests. It has always 'seemed' less expensive that way.

Matthew

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002599#Comment_1002599

I believe Mark Barnes took a fairly lengthy look at this before and concluded that the best buying strategy was to buy whichever package yields the highest percentage discount first. If I ultimately wanted Collector's, I would look at all the "lower" packages, buy the one with the highest percentage discount, and the see how that impacted the discounts on the remaining "higher" packages on the way to Collector's. Next I would buy the remaining one with the highest discount, then rinse and repeat until I bought Collector's last.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002603#Comment_1002603

I believe Mark Barnes took a fairly lengthy look at this before and concluded that the best buying strategy was to buy whichever package yields the highest percentage discount first. If I ultimately wanted Collector's, I would look at all the "lower" packages, buy the one with the highest percentage discount, and the see how that impacted the discounts on the remaining "higher" packages on the way to Collector's. Next I would buy the remaining one with the highest discount, then rinse and repeat until I bought Collector's last.

That’s right: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/129353/840823.aspx#840823

There’s an important caveat. There may be an additional discount that applies to one purchase only (as there was last year when you bought a feature set) if that’s the case, you obviously want to make use of that on your biggest purchase.

Small Heath

When Logos 7 came out I worked out (too late for most of the denominations) that you saved money by buying packages in individual increments rather than going for the top one.

For instance buy bronze, then silver, then gold etc all the way up to collectors rather than just buying collectors to start with.

The savings were actually quite substantial but it does seem a bit counterintuitive that you should do it this way.

Does anyone else have the same experience?

Yes, I suspected that and gave it a test run on several packages. It usually yielded a better discount. Especially when you got an additional discount on other items every time you purchased an upgrade.

I've also discovered a similar savings on the monthly publisher's sales with DP. I saved $150 this month by buying the smaller IVP before purchasing the larger IVP. I reported it to Sales CS, but never got a reply.

There was one instance a few months ago where it didn't work, so I returned the item and then purchased the larger item.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002619#Comment_1002619

It makes it difficult to know how to buy when pricing lacks even basic transparency. To be honest I would expect bigger purchases to get bigger, or at least, not smaller discounts.

If logos wants us to push the button on big ticket packages they should let us know the costs of the various options up front.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002620#Comment_1002620

If logos wants us to push the button on big ticket packages they should let us know the costs of the various options up front.

That would confuse most of FaithLife's customers.

The rest of us can simply follow Mark's advice.

Kiyah

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002632#Comment_1002632

If logos wants us to push the button on big ticket packages they should let us know the costs of the various options up front.

That would confuse most of FaithLife's customers.

The rest of us can simply follow Mark's advice.

Well the problem with that is that the sales people always "advise" you to buy the biggest package you can afford to get the most savings. When I bought Logos 6 Platinum the lady on the phone actually told me that it would be more expensive if I bought a smaller package and then upgraded later (which wasn't true in that case, buying Diamond outright would have been more expensive than buying Platinum and upgrading). If the opposite is true and you could actually save money by buying smaller and then upgrading, the sales folks need to be instructed to stop telling people that "going big is cheaper" on the phone.

SineNomine

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002638#Comment_1002638

Well the problem with that is that the sales people always "advise" you to buy the biggest package you can afford to get the most savings. When I bought Logos 6 Platinum the lady on the phone actually told me that it would be more expensive if I bought a smaller package and then upgraded later (which wasn't true in that case, buying Diamond outright would have been more expensive than buying Platinum and upgrading). If the opposite is true and you could actually save money by buying smaller and then upgrading, the sales folks need to be instructed to stop telling people that "going big is cheaper" on the phone.

Well, there is a sense in which people save more by buying a larger package than a bigger package--the same way that if you buy one box of noodles discounted from $1.50 to $1.00, you will save less than if you buy three boxes of noodles for $2.00.

The problem is if the sales people don't know that some of the time you can save money by buying a lower package immediately before a higher one. If the sales lady was speaking of the difference between buying small right away and bigger after some sale was over, then she was presumably right. But this is a training problem for the sales manager to handle, not a website problem.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002643#Comment_1002643

The problem is if the sales people don't know that some of the time you can save money by buying a lower package immediately before a higher one.

Indeed, and they want to get through a sales call as expeditiously as they can, so simple single sales are easier than more complicated staged sales.

This is another example of why it can be beneficial to the user to visit the Forums!

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002659#Comment_1002659

I do not think FL is purposely not being transparent as much as they cannot test the pricing system as thoroughly as their thrifty customers. Reviewing the forums and exerting patience will usually provide the best buying strategy.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002660#Comment_1002660

I do not think FL is purposely not being transparent as much as they cannot test the pricing system as thoroughly as their thrifty customers. Reviewing the forums and exerting patience will usually provide the best buying strategy.

The hidden secret is that usually the bigger the package the smaller the discount.

The problem is that the only way that you can find out is buy buying a lower level package and seeing how much the price of the higher level package falls.

To be clear this is not an isolated pricing blip, rather it is a pricing policy decision taken by Logos which works because of the lack of transparency. I know this because I worked my way up every base package buying in increments last time (apart from for the general package which I foolishly just brought in one go) and for every one it was cheaper to buy one tier at a time.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002675#Comment_1002675

and for every one it was cheaper to buy one tier at a time.

And FL is feverishly correcting this mistake at this very moment. [st]

We will have to wait to see if the L8 packages follow the same pattern.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002677#Comment_1002677

and for every one it was cheaper to buy one tier at a time.

And FL is feverishly correcting this mistake at this very moment.

We will have to wait to see if the L8 packages follow the same pattern.

Absolutely, its all part of the fun!

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002679#Comment_1002679

I noticed that with 6 it didn't make a difference, with 7 it benefited us to buy incrementally (unless you called sales... then they gave you the best deal without having to horse around). BUT prior to 6, it cost you a little more to go the incremental route. Remains to be seen how this will go.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002679#Comment_1002679

Absolutely, its all part of the fun!

I really hoping the quality of the packages improves this time around. I admit to being a bit disappointed with the L7 offerings, so here's to better things sooner than L8er.

Lew Worthington

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002681#Comment_1002681

Absolutely, its all part of the fun!

I really hoping the quality of the packages improves this time around. I admit to being a bit disappointed with the L7 offerings, so here's to better things sooner than L8er.

I agree. It seems that including many weak resources has some justification if you have an integrated library so that when you do a search or passage guide or factbook or something like that, you get lots of hits without really working. The problem, though, is that many, many of the hits are ones I have to reject because the resources' contributions are PD works of no real historical significance, or contemporary works of no real credibility. I'm willing to pay more for L8 packages that have fewer, but better, resources.

Jan Krohn

Also, there used to be various coupon codes "buy a base package, and get resource xyz free".

If you buy multiple increments, you might be able to get multiple free books too.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002681#Comment_1002681

Absolutely, its all part of the fun!

I really hoping the quality of the packages improves this time around. I admit to being a bit disappointed with the L7 offerings, so here's to better things sooner than L8er.

I had some correspondence with FL staff a few months ago, expressing exactly that view. I’ve been reassured that they’re focusing on valuable reference books, such as commentaries and Bible dictionaries — and the draft lists of resources I saw were definitely a step up from L7.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002693#Comment_1002693

Absolutely, its all part of the fun!

I really hoping the quality of the packages improves this time around. I admit to being a bit disappointed with the L7 offerings, so here's to better things sooner than L8er.

I had some correspondence with FL staff a few months ago, expressing exactly that view. I’ve been reassured that they’re focusing on valuable reference books, such as commentaries and Bible dictionaries — and the draft lists of resources I saw were definitely a step up from L7.

That is very good news! [Y]

Myke Harbuck

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002693#Comment_1002693

I’ve been reassured that they’re focusing on valuable reference books, such as commentaries and Bible dictionaries — and the draft lists of resources I saw were definitely a step up from L7.

OK. Now I'm REALLY excited about L8. Can't w8 to see what's in store!

Richard Wardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002693#Comment_1002693

Absolutely, its all part of the fun!

I really hoping the quality of the packages improves this time around. I admit to being a bit disappointed with the L7 offerings, so here's to better things sooner than L8er.

I had some correspondence with FL staff a few months ago, expressing exactly that view. I’ve been reassured that they’re focusing on valuable reference books, such as commentaries and Bible dictionaries — and the draft lists of resources I saw were definitely a step up from L7.

👍8️⃣

Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002616#Comment_1002616

When Logos 8 is introduced, we will be offering a special "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount which will much more than offset any savings that could be found by purchasing more highly discounted packages before others. To get maximum benefit from this "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount, you'll want to make your biggest purchase first.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002693#Comment_1002693

I had some correspondence with FL staff a few months ago, expressing exactly that view. I’ve been reassured that they’re focusing on valuable reference books, such as commentaries and Bible dictionaries — and the draft lists of resources I saw were definitely a step up from L7.

Ditto, so I do have some hope.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002709#Comment_1002709

When Logos 8 is introduced, we will be offering a special "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount which will much more than offset any savings that could be found by purchasing more highly discounted packages before others. To get maximum benefit from this "first Logos 8 purchase" discount, you'll want to make your biggest purchase first.

Oh no, this sounds horrendously expensive!

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002709#Comment_1002709

When Logos 8 is introduced, we will be offering a special "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount which will much more than offset any savings that could be found by purchasing more highly discounted packages before others. To get maximum benefit from this "first Logos 8 purchase" discount, you'll want to make your biggest purchase first.

I guess we'll learn when L8 goes live what the discount schedule is, but this sounds pretty enticing.

The only thing about the old system I liked was mixing packages from various streams for the best pricing and getting the resources I wanted at a good price. Looks like we'll have to choose just one package for a big discount and other ones from other streams will be more expensive. Since I have a lot of what I want already, it might be hard for me to benefit from the single generous discount scheme. We'll have to see.

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002709#Comment_1002709

And then there's the publisher's hidden discount. Package sm might be discounted 10%, while package med might be 20% and so on. They say it's cheaper, but don't publish the numbers. You have to dig the information out yourself. Sometimes when they go on sale, it really gets complicated. A sales rep can be really helpful, but it burns a lot of their time. If they would give us, the customers, access to these pricing tools, it would go a long way toward smoothing this problem out. I would like to be able to do virtual purchases so I could get the best deal. As it is, I have to do a real purchase and then return it.

Phil Gons (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002713#Comment_1002713

When Logos 8 is introduced, we will be offering a special "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount which will much more than offset any savings that could be found by purchasing more highly discounted packages before others. To get maximum benefit from this "first Logos 8 purchase" discount, you'll want to make your biggest purchase first.

I guess we'll learn when L8 goes live what the discount schedule is, but this sounds pretty enticing.

The only thing about the old system I liked was mixing packages from various streams for the best pricing and getting the resources I wanted at a good price. Looks like we'll have to choose just one package for a big discount and other ones from other streams will be more expensive. Since I have a lot of what I want already, it might be hard for me to benefit from the single generous discount scheme. We'll have to see.

We'd be happy to support that scenario via email or phone.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002717#Comment_1002717

And then there's the publisher's hidden discount. Package sm might be discounted 10%, while package med might be 20% and so on. They say it's cheaper, but don't publish the numbers. You have to dig the information out yourself. Sometimes when they go on sale, it really gets complicated. A sales rep can be really helpful, but it burns a lot of their time. If they would give us, the customers, access to these pricing tools, it would go a long way toward smoothing this problem out. I would like to be able to do virtual purchases so I could get the best deal. As it is, I have to do a real purchase and then return it.

The complication in that, and headaches it would cause customer service are likely why thats never happened.

We users in general get things twisted over version upgrades... Now imagine adding in a faceted list of percentage discounts and conditions...

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002722#Comment_1002722

We'd be happy to support that scenario via email or phone.

Thank you, Phil! That's reassuring. [Y]

Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002727#Comment_1002727

Adding some more detail to my earlier post.

When Logos 8 is introduced, we will be offer a special "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount which will more than offset any savings that could be found by purchasing more highly discounted packages before others. To get maximum benefit from this "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount, you'll want to make your biggest purchase first.

The "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount will only be applied to a "Complete Upgrade", made of a Logos 8 Library and a Logos 8 Feature Set.

The "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount will NOT be applied to a "Feature Upgrade", when a Logos 8 Feature Set is purchased by itself. Important note: If your first Logos 8 upgrade is a Feature Upgrade, you will not be able to benefit from the "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount on subsequent purchases.

So, the buying strategy for maximum value is: make your first Logos 8 upgrade purchase the biggest Complete Upgrade you are interested in.

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002781#Comment_1002781

So, the buying strategy for maximum value is: make your first Logos 8 upgrade purchase the biggest Complete Upgrade you are interested in.

You could not say it much clearer than that.

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002799#Comment_1002799

I just wish Logos 8 release day would not be as bad as the release day of Logos 7.

Few things I wish Logos would improve on...

Make sure the Base Package discounts are crystal clear. So buyers can make good sound judgement.
Description & the details of the Base Packages can be a lot more clearer than Logos 7. Example: Logos Connect vs. Logos Now, features vs BP, etc.
I wish there's a built-in feature on the website where customers can do a "mock purchase"... so say...if I were to buy this X Base Package, then we can see how much discount it would effect the other Base Packages. That way we know how much we're saving. Thus, giving us the confidence to further purchase more BPs.
Make sure your server can HANDLE the loaad!!! I remember Logos website were down many times during the release of Logos 6 and Logos 7. So I hope you guys upped your servers. I remember I went crazy... I bought the portfolios without even knowing what's included in packages because the website was down... I just called and purchase anyway... and that was at 6:05 AM ...!! 5 minutes after. I can't wait!

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002709#Comment_1002709

To get maximum benefit from this "first Logos 8 upgrade" discount, you'll want to make your biggest purchase first.

Can we purchase more than one package at a time (for the "first purchase")? If so, can we do it on the website, or does it require a phone call?

Amy Esary

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003276#Comment_1003276

To purchase multiple packages, please call sales.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003294#Comment_1003294

Will do!

EDIT: It was well worth the call. [;)] [:D]

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003295#Comment_1003295

I discovered an item in a BP that I'm planning on buying, that I purchased less than 30 days ago.

I'll return that and get a credit. Is there an automated way for FL to find these or is it a manual task? Is it something FL should do or is it my own responsibility?

Jennifer Grisham (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003619#Comment_1003619

Dale, thanks for your question. You only pay for the resources that are new to you. If you're looking at a package that has a resource you already bought, you won't pay for it again. One of our salespeople would love to help you with this. Give us a call at 888-875-9491.

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003633#Comment_1003633

But the resource is much cheaper in a BP, so I'll save money by returning it and then buying the BP. I've already emailed my rep to take care of it before ordering the BP.

Rick Ausdahl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1002698#Comment_1002698

How will pricing work if a library includes pre-pub resources already ordered, but that haven't been delivered yet?

If buying the library, should the pre-pub orders be cancelled? Even if the pre-pub price is less than the price shown in the library? If cancelling the pre-pub order, does it matter if it's cancelled before or after the library purchase(s)?

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003809#Comment_1003809

How will pricing work if a library includes pre-pub resources already ordered, but that haven't been delivered yet?

If buying the library, should the pre-pub orders be cancelled? Even if the pre-pub price is less than the price shown in the library? If cancelling the pre-pub order, does it matter if it's cancelled before or after the library purchase(s)?

The base package cost will always be a fraction of the pre pub price, so buy the package including the pre pub then either cancel the pre pub or indeed just leave it and it will automatically cancel. If you cancel the pre pub before buying the package then this is not a problem unless it gets dropped from the package before buying.

You will be saving real money here, libraries are super cheap compared to even pre pub or community pricing.

Jennifer Grisham (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003809#Comment_1003809

How will pricing work if a library includes pre-pub resources already ordered, but that haven't been delivered yet?

If buying the library, should the pre-pub orders be cancelled? Even if the pre-pub price is less than the price shown in the library? If cancelling the pre-pub order, does it matter if it's cancelled before or after the library purchase(s)?

Rick, thanks for your question. Our system checks to see if your Pre-Pubs are in your library before they go live, so you won't pay for it twice.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003835#Comment_1003835

How does the free mobile ed course work? After purchasing L8 I was told I would get an email on how to redeem. When might I expect such an email? Thanks

John Duffy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003835#Comment_1003835

I found that when comparing all books in a base package other than the standard set of base packages, when I clicked on Compare all books in the Overview section on the left, I was getting confused. The list of books didn't seem to correlate well with the highlighted books listed for the denominational packages.

I then noticed the that link to 'Compare all books' in the denominational pages all redirected to a comparison of the the 'Standard' base packages, to https://www.logos.com/compare/libraries I could not get a detailed list of the denominational books/resources.

I had to manually add the denominational name to the end of the url to get to the detailed comparison page, e.g.
https://www.logos.com/compare/libraries/reformed

I found that helps in looking to consider what packages might be attractive to buy.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003897#Comment_1003897

It's actually not a separate email, Mattillo. The redemption details can be found in the "Thank you for your order..." email.

That link will bring you to the Redeem Course page, where you'll find a coupon code, and list of courses you can make a selection from.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003897#Comment_1003897

How does the free mobile ed course work? After purchasing L8 I was told I would get an email on how to redeem. When might I expect such an email? Thanks

the email is actually the receipt which gives instructions

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003905#Comment_1003905

Thank you all! Never would have noticed that in my receipt...

Small Heath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1003919#Comment_1003919

Thank you, [Y] I completely missed it! [:(]

Manuel Maria

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1004203#Comment_1004203

So where is the list of available Mobile Ed courses with that coupon? I thoght that it could be anyone.

Thanks!

Charlene

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1004351#Comment_1004351

So where is the list of available Mobile Ed courses with that coupon? I thoght that it could be anyone

When I purchased the upgrade, I got an email. In that email, it said this further down.

Pick out your Mobile Ed course included with Logos 8

Your first purchase of Logos 8 Silver or above includes an interactive video course of your choice. Visit this page to pick out your course now.

I went to that page and it listed "featured courses" or if you wanted to, it then said "or choose one from the complete list of Mobile Ed courses." I went to the complete list, looked at all of them, and then added to the cart the one I wanted. BE SURE you include the COUPON CODE that is listed there. Once I did that, the course was free! It was a very nice addition!