I could use some help with Notes please
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Doc B said:Cynthia in Florida said:
Maybe my problem is the lines are actually blurry between visual filters and highlights! Thoughts?
Here's how I conceive of these tools...maybe it will help you-
Highlights (HL) and Visual Filters (VF) are both simply highlights.
HL are made by you, manually. VF are made by the machine according to a rule. You might write the rule, or a command you execute in Logos might write the rule. But once the rule runs, it simply makes highlights. And when you highlight something yourself, you can only highlight what you see. But a VF can highlight something according to what is hidden (called 'metadata').
(This is conceptual and not intended to describe how Logos handles the data in VF).
If this isn't helpful, just move along.
Actually, that IS helpful!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Doc B said:
Highlights (HL) and Visual Filters (VF) are both simply highlights.
HL are made by you, manually. VF are made by the machine according to a rule.
FWIW, we're considering renaming “Visual Filter (documents)” to “Automatic Highlights” in a future version, to make this clearer.
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Thanks all, this thread has been immensely helpful in figuring out the new notes system. One thing I'm thinking through is how I might handle organizing a larger research project. Let's say I am doing a study on a broad topic such as sanctification. I imagine I would have at least one related passage list, lots of clippings and perhaps some documents I create as well (as other file types I haven't worked with enough to grasp their value!). What would be a good strategy for bringing this all together? Would I create a notebook to store all these files and results? Would I just use tagging for the project name? Looking for some basic usage ideas on getting the most from the new system.
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Cynthia in Florida said:Cynthia in Florida said:
Okay, this is still a little fuzzy for me, from what I can tell, Notebooks serve two purposes: To create visual filters and to organize notes.
They are used to organise notes and can be used as visual filters - I wouldn't actually say they "create" visual filters (but that may be a distinction without a difference!).
I'm a little bit confused here because I think that was what David said above. I could have misunderstood him. Can you explain the distinction for me?
Maybe I am being a bit too pedantic - and maybe I am wrong as well!
But what I was trying to say is that a Notebook is a Notebook and not a Visual Filter. But it does show up in the Visual Filter menu as a selectable item so functions as a Visual Filter.
Cynthia in Florida said:I think what is confusing is this. When you first open the notes tool, whether you want to write a note or search a note, the notes are mixed in with the highlights, so if you don't realize that highlights is PART OF the notes tool, (which I didn't), then you don't realize how important it is to make sure to choose whether you are searching a highlight or a note. For someone like me, who has all her inductive Bible study icons and highlights there, I couldn't understand what all my "filters" were doing there. I thought notes was notes...PERIOD. It confused me that highlights were there, so when searching for a note, it really is best to choose NOTES right off the bat. That way, when I get down to my notebooks (which have all my inductive Bible study visual filters there...and there are a lot!), all those icon filters are gone and I'm simply searching or viewing my notes. Clear as mud, right?!
That makes total sense and is a great way of achieving this particular use case.
There are other scenarios where filtering just to Notes straight away wouldn't work - for example if I want to look at the combination of notes and highlights in a resource - where immediately just focusing on Notes wouldn't be a good thing to do. That was all I was suggesting.
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danwdoo said:
Thanks all, this thread has been immensely helpful in figuring out the new notes system. One thing I'm thinking through is how I might handle organizing a larger research project. Let's say I am doing a study on a broad topic such as sanctification. I imagine I would have at least one related passage list, lots of clippings and perhaps some documents I create as well (as other file types I haven't worked with enough to grasp their value!). What would be a good strategy for bringing this all together? Would I create a notebook to store all these files and results? Would I just use tagging for the project name? Looking for some basic usage ideas on getting the most from the new system.
This is a FANTASTIC question and really--now that I've muddled through the above--my very next question. As a college student, I run into this all the time. I thought that notebooks, based off the title, was exactly that: a place where I would take all my work and put it in my notebook, just like a student would take all their notes, clippings, research notes, post-its (which appears to be likened to anchors for me), handouts, etc. I think sometimes part of the problem with Logos is they don't think about what a common item is used for and thus how a title to a tool would be perceived. That then throws in the curve ball for someone like me who tends to be a visual black-and-white type of person. Then I find out that highlights are notes which, when placed in a notebook, automatically create visual filters that act as visual filters but are not REALLY visual filters! REEEAAALLLLLY?
So, I would love it if someone could answer danwdoo's (and my) question. How would you put something like that in motion?
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Cynthia in Florida said:
Well, I think something I'm learning here is that my notes, as I have them now, seem to need a major overhaul.
What changes would you have to make?
Initially I thought I’d have to completely redo how I organized and used notes, but after spending more time with new notes, I’ve found that new notes doesn’t require my note-taking system to change.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Graham Criddle said:Cynthia in Florida said:Cynthia in Florida said:
Okay, this is still a little fuzzy for me, from what I can tell, Notebooks serve two purposes: To create visual filters and to organize notes.
They are used to organise notes and can be used as visual filters - I wouldn't actually say they "create" visual filters (but that may be a distinction without a difference!).
I'm a little bit confused here because I think that was what David said above. I could have misunderstood him. Can you explain the distinction for me?
Maybe I am being a bit too pedantic - and maybe I am wrong as well!
But what I was trying to say is that a Notebook is a Notebook and not a Visual Filter. But it does show up in the Visual Filter menu as a selectable item so functions as a Visual Filter.
Cynthia in Florida said:I think what is confusing is this. When you first open the notes tool, whether you want to write a note or search a note, the notes are mixed in with the highlights, so if you don't realize that highlights is PART OF the notes tool, (which I didn't), then you don't realize how important it is to make sure to choose whether you are searching a highlight or a note. For someone like me, who has all her inductive Bible study icons and highlights there, I couldn't understand what all my "filters" were doing there. I thought notes was notes...PERIOD. It confused me that highlights were there, so when searching for a note, it really is best to choose NOTES right off the bat. That way, when I get down to my notebooks (which have all my inductive Bible study visual filters there...and there are a lot!), all those icon filters are gone and I'm simply searching or viewing my notes. Clear as mud, right?!
That makes total sense and is a great way of achieving this particular use case.
There are other scenarios where filtering just to Notes straight away wouldn't work - for example if I want to look at the combination of notes and highlights in a resource - where immediately just focusing on Notes wouldn't be a good thing to do. That was all I was suggesting.
Graham: Thanks so much. I fully understand what you're saying now. I even understand why I may not want to filter away my highlights. For me, personally, I see notes still needing some work. As I mentioned above, notebooks should NOT be called notebooks when the notebooks contain highlights that function as visual filters. Logos needs to consider what it titles a tool, because with that title comes an assumption on the part of the user that it will do what it does in real life. It leads to confusion and frustration when the user doesn't realize that the title of the tool doesn't necessarily mean that its computer function mimics its real life function.
As always, you rock, and I thank you for all your help!!!!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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danwdoo said:
Let's say I am doing a study on a broad topic such as sanctification. I imagine I would have at least one related passage list, lots of clippings and perhaps some documents I create as well (as other file types I haven't worked with enough to grasp their value!). What would be a good strategy for bringing this all together? Would I create a notebook to store all these files and results?
From this description I would probably start with creating a Favorites folder on the topic and then dragging clippings, passage list, documents, etc to it to keep all your research material in one place. And if you also create a Notes Notebook with relevant notes then dragging the Notes Tool to this Favorites folder when you have the Notebook selected means that when you click it in the Favorites folder it will open an instance of the Notes Tool with that notebook already selected.
If you aren't familiar with Favorites - you can find out about them at https://wiki.logos.com/Favorites
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Graham Criddle said:danwdoo said:
Let's say I am doing a study on a broad topic such as sanctification. I imagine I would have at least one related passage list, lots of clippings and perhaps some documents I create as well (as other file types I haven't worked with enough to grasp their value!). What would be a good strategy for bringing this all together? Would I create a notebook to store all these files and results?
From this description I would probably start with creating a Favorites folder on the topic and then dragging clippings, passage list, documents, etc to it to keep all your research material in one place. And if you also create a Notes Notebook with relevant notes then dragging the Notes Tool to this Favorites folder when you have the Notebook selected means that when you click it in the Favorites folder it will open an instance of the Notes Tool with that notebook already selected.
If you aren't familiar with Favorites - you can find out about them at https://wiki.logos.com/Favorites
Thank Graham: This helps immensely. I'm thinking maybe Logos would want to incorporate something like this into Notes or make something like this more obvious. (or maybe they have and I don't know how.)
The reason I say that is because whether someone uses Logos as a pastor, a college student, or a student of the Word, having all their notes, clippings, etc., on a particular topic or passage that they gather for a sermon, a paper, or a study all in one place (i.e., what I thought was the point of notebook), seems so logical. As it is now, my clippings,(including notes on those clippings), documents, passage lists, etc., are in one place and my notes (including highlights on those notes) are in another. Now I have to take those and put them all in another place outside of the documents and outside of the notes, which means I'll need to remember to drag them all over to the favorites folder whenever I update them if I want to keep the folder up to date. That's fine, but it would be more helpful if I could somehow have a shortcut key or an icon in the notes folder (and in a perfect world, within my document I've created), that allows me to link (or maybe the word is save) the note or clipping or passage list over to the particular favorites folder. Is that option available?
Edited to add: Upon reading the article in the above link, Logos starts by saying that "Favorites in Logos are like favorites that you add in Internet Explorer or other browser programs. It allows you to store locations to resources. As with favorites in your browser you can create Folders and organize your favorites." Keeping with my assertion that Logos needs to think about what they title things, I would agree that to be the idea I would get in my head as to the function of "Favorites." Logos then goes on and says, "You can save Bible study resources, clippings, layout and such for a particular Bible study in a named folder." I would expect THAT function in Notebook (as clearly did danwdoo in the post above). I'm just saying that what Logos titles something gives a picture in the mind of the user and more often than not, I'm discovering that it doesn't mimic the actual item.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Hi Cynthia
Does the "Favorites, Notes and Clippings" video at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017433952-Logos-8-Sermon-and-Bible-Study-Prep-Series help at all?
Not suggesting it answers all your questions but it does explain some of the reasoning behind my suggestion.
Graham
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This certainly helps me and is very much like what I was in hoping to find. Everything in Logos 8 is starting to come together nicely for me and I am very happy with even the partial knowledge I have gained about what Logos 8 offers.
I will have to say though that 'favorites' is probably about the worst name possible that could have been chosen for the Logos 'favorites' feature as the function of this bears little resemblance to what favorites features do in about every other program out there. A name such as binder, organizer, or even document library makes far more sense to me. I would have never looked at this feature in relation to what I will soon be doing with it based on the name.
Thanks so much for your help, Graham (and also Cynthia for starting this helpful thread).
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Ok I have been scratching my head over these workflow uses- I did a couple given them names- but now can't find them, so I opened favorites, created a folder called "workflow studies", with a sub-folder Revelation and with 2 sub-folders- "Bible Study and Sermons" then created a sermon and bible study on Revelation - after setting them up and naming I dragged them over into the appropriate sub-folder named Revelation.
This has been the only way I can find any of the workflow doc's I have been testing- is this the way it should be done- or is there something I'm missing.
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
This has been the only way I can find any of the workflow doc's I have been testing- is this the way it should be done- or is there something I'm missing.
Started workflows should appear in their own section in the Guides menu
They should also appear as cards on your homepage.
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Thanks Graham- believe it or not I have looked there several times with no result- till just now- maybe I have an issue with it up dating- but at least I know that originally I looking in the correct place.
I think I like putting them in folders on the favorites bar.
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Graham Criddle said:Whyndell Grizzard said:
This has been the only way I can find any of the workflow doc's I have been testing- is this the way it should be done- or is there something I'm missing.
Started workflows should appear in their own section in the Guides menu
They should also appear as cards on your homepage.
When a workflow is finished, do I drag n drop it into finished?
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scooter said:Graham Criddle said:Whyndell Grizzard said:
This has been the only way I can find any of the workflow doc's I have been testing- is this the way it should be done- or is there something I'm missing.
Started workflows should appear in their own section in the Guides menu
They should also appear as cards on your homepage.
When a workflow is finished, do I drag n drop it into finished?
It will automatically go to the completed workflows section.
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Cynthia in Florida said:
[ Upon reading the article in the above link, Logos starts by saying that "Favorites in Logos are like favorites that you add in Internet Explorer or other browser programs. It allows you to store locations to resources. As with favorites in your browser you can create Folders and organize your favorites." Keeping with my assertion that Logos needs to think about what they title things, I would agree that to be the idea I would get in my head as to the function of "Favorites." Logos then goes on and says, "You can save Bible study resources, clippings, layout and such for a particular Bible study in a named folder." I would expect THAT function in Notebook (as clearly did danwdoo in the post above). I'm just saying that what Logos titles something gives a picture in the mind of the user and more often than not, I'm discovering that it doesn't mimic the actual item.
Cynthia in Florida said:As I mentioned above, notebooks should NOT be called notebooks when the notebooks contain highlights that function as visual filters. Logos needs to consider what it titles a tool, because with that title comes an assumption on the part of the user that it will do what it does in real life. It leads to confusion and frustration when the user doesn't realize that the title of the tool doesn't necessarily mean that its computer function mimics its real life function.
danwdoo said:I will have to say though that 'favorites' is probably about the worst name possible that could have been chosen for the Logos 'favorites' feature as the function of this bears little resemblance to what favorites features do in about every other program out there. A name such as binder, organizer, or even document library makes far more sense to me. I would have never looked at this feature in relation to what I will soon be doing with it based on the name.
Danwdoo: I would have to say that I couldn't agree with you more. I like your suggestion of BINDER a lot.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Graham Criddle said:
Hi Cynthia
Does the "Favorites, Notes and Clippings" video at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017433952-Logos-8-Sermon-and-Bible-Study-Prep-Series help at all?
Not suggesting it answers all your questions but it does explain some of the reasoning behind my suggestion.
Graham
Thanks Graham: It does help and I agree, your recommendation is spot on. The title of it, as both danwdoo and I both say, make no sense. I have to say that even in 7 or 6 or however far back it went, I never knew that was what Favorites was for. I thought it was merely links like a favorites toolbar menu in google or something.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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I had understood, clearly incorrectly, that favorites just let you save a list of your resources you are currently reading or want to access quickly (a more robust pinned resources type if thing). I agree with Cynthia that I was thinking Notebooks was likely where I needed to go to find this capability.
BTW I think it's great that a favorites link to an item can be renamed to something different than the item name, yet still link to it. This helps shorten some names in the folder structure, while keeping the fuller longer name on the item. I'm really loving the organization possibilities I never knew were there for who knows how many versions!
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danwdoo said:
BTW I think it's great that a favorites link to an item can be renamed to something different than the item name, yet still link to it. This helps shorten some names in the folder structure, while keeping the fuller longer name on the item. I'm really loving the organization possibilities I never knew were there for who knows how many versions!
Glad you/re finding it useful. You can also "drag" search strings to Favorite folders and then click to invoke them when you want to use them again
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I have to admit Bill, I agree with you. The new logos 8 notes default font is hard to read so I have been going through the multitude of fonts to get one like I had on Logos 7. The one font I liked seems to be missing from Logos 8.
So I have found another that is ok, but how to change it to be my DEFAULT Font and Size? I don't know. Also the Spell check options that were Logos 7 are all but gone.0 -
danwdoo said:
I had understood, clearly incorrectly, that favorites just let you save a list of your resources you are currently reading or want to access quickly (a more robust pinned resources type if thing). I agree with Cynthia that I was thinking Notebooks was likely where I needed to go to find this capability.
You know what they say about great minds......
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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[:D]
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Is the intent of workflow eliminate the use of layouts, in conjunction with layouts, also if I delete a layout and I have created a link for it in a folder in favorites do both links disappear?
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
Is the intent of workflow eliminate the use of layouts
No, but one side effect of them in conjunction with the new appropriate to guides is that it is easier to keep a clean workspace oriented to complete a specific task efficiently.
Whyndell Grizzard said:if I delete a layout and I have created a link for it in a folder in favorites do both links disappear?
I have no idea ... I'd either need to set the condition up to test or leave it to someone else to answer.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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This thread seems like it would be useful if I had L8.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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whyndell: Your screenshot of favorites is very helpful. Thanks for sharing.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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MJ. Smith said:Whyndell Grizzard said:
Is the intent of workflow eliminate the use of layouts
No, but one side effect of them in conjunction with the new appropriate to guides is that it is easier to keep a clean workspace oriented to complete a specific task efficiently.
I hope that doesn’t happen as I am using them in two different capacities.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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