How about some help on a greek to hebrew equivelancy?

Robert Pavich

I was just looking through Galatians 1 and noticed Paul saying that they are "deserting" him....

I clicked on it to do a BWS.....so far so good:

metatithemi - desert, change, pervert....

But when i looked in the usage in the LXX it came up: (In Isaiah 29:14) "to transpose"

Ok...still similar meaning...not off my rocker yet.

But...

The equiv ESV text for Isaiah 29:14 for the Hebrew word: pala = wonderful???

I have two questions:

1.) how did they get from transpose, change, pervert to "wonderful"?

2.) How would I do a search like " where are all the places metatithemi has been translated pala in Hebrew?"

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Comments

MJ. Smith

1.) how did they get from transpose, change, pervert to "wonderful"?

2.) How would I do a search like " where are all the places metatithemi has been translated pala in Hebrew?"

Well, I can tell you how many times ... but I seem to not quite have this part of Logos down. I thought I could expand and get the whole list. [:(]

Graham Criddle

Hi Robert

The "Theological Dictionary of the New Testament" comments on your first question:

"2. In the LXX a. the verb occurs 18 times for different Hbr. words and has a local sense, e.g., “to remove” a boundary, Dt. 27:17 etc., “to ward off” an attack, 3 Macc. 1:16, “to transplant” a people (or “to transform”? Mas. has פלא “to do wonderful things”) Is. 29:14, “to be translated” from the earth (לקח), as in the case of Enoch, Gn. 5:24; Wis. 4:10; Sir. 44:16; 49:14 vl. It also has a transf, sense and can mean “to convince,” “to talk round,” Sir. 6:9, “to fall away,” e.g., μεταθέμενον ἀπὸ τῶν πατρίων (“customs of the fathers”), 2 Macc. 7:24. b. The noun is μετάθεσις, e.g., ἡ ἐπὶ τὰ Ἑλληνικὰ μετάθεσις, “the transition to the Greek custom,” 2 Macc. 11:24."

which may suggest that the Hebrew text changed between the time when the LXX was written to when the Masoretic text was finalised.

Hope this helps a little

Graham

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132525#Comment_132525

Graham,

that is food for thought..and something I'm going to look into....interesting.

Martha...I finally ended up going to the LXX With Logos Morph (that has the hebrew in the window below...) and right clicking, choosing the hebrew lemma and "search this resource" viola! All of the places where one = the other.

Alan Macgregor

Robert

One of the things about LXX and the Hebrew text is that the translation is very variable from book to book. In fact it varies from word-for-word through dynamic equivalence all the way to paraphrase. The other thing is that we aren't exactly sure what the Hebrew text was at the time of translation. Torah seems to be more "accurate" than other parts. In addition, as you know, there are alternative texts within the Greek text. Among other things it's what makes Septuagint Studies so fascinating.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/132529#Comment_132529

.I finally ended up going to the LXX With Logos Morph (that has the hebrew in the window below...) and right clicking, choosing the hebrew lemma and "search this resource" viola! All of the places where one = the other.

I wouldn't be too confident of this method as you ended up with 28 results for <lemma = af/he/פלא:1> (right?) - which is the number of times that Hebrew lemma occurs. Normally an ANDEQUALS search will do what you ask e.g. <lemma = lbs/el/μετατίθημι> ANDEQUALS <lemma = af/he/פלא:1>, but LogosLXX has horrible problems with its Inline text as we found at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/17410/131464.aspx#131464 so nothing is working as it should.