Windows 10 in 2020...
For those of us with Windows 7 on our machines, the requirement for Windows 10 starting January of 2020 brings something of a dilemma. We are going to have to either purchase that OS and install it on each of our current computers, or simply buy another one with Windows 10 already on it.
My question is: will there be an option for downloading resources and updates to a binary file of some sort, then transferring it from a Windows 10 computer to a Windows 7 one via our local network, and installing the new updates/resources that way...so the Windows 7 computers don't have to connect to the Internet?
I have no clue, of course, as to how difficult that would be. If I'm spinning my wheels here, I do apologize.
Blessings.
Paul L. White
Satisfied Logos User since 1.6
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Hi Paul,
You can follow the instructions at https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers to save having to download and index everything again.
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Thank you, Kevin.
Right now I only have my main PC and a laptop. So I simply go through the normal update procedure with both instances of the software.
From reading the instructions, and focusing on Method 1, the only concern I would have is when we order, let's say, one book. Then we'd have to back up and copy the entire library each time, or so it appears.
Also, what if Logos just came out with an update from 8.4 to 8.5, let's say? Would the same steps still be in play?
Thank you so much.
Paul
PS I'm presuming that, between now and January, Logos will be aware of the dilemma, and create a routine (script) that people can use to transfer their updates to a Windows 7 machine. Blessings.
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Paul L. White said:
I'm presuming that, between now and January, Logos will be aware of the dilemma, and create a routine (script) that people can use
Just as Faithlife stopped supporting Windows Vista and older versions of MacOS, More likely they will abandon Win7 due to similar security concerns with older operating systems.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Paul L. White said:
PS I'm presuming that, between now and January, Logos will be aware of the dilemma, and create a routine (script) that people can use to transfer their updates to a Windows 7 machine.
Unlikely, because Faithlife will also end their support of Win 7 installations i.e. no software updates (if Logos uses a version of .NET released after Jan 14, it won't work on Windows 7), so you will be stuck with a legacy version that does work. Resource updates would be available as normal, but those that require newer versions of Logos will not work.
Paul L. White said:Also, what if Logos just came out with an update from 8.4 to 8.5, let's say? Would the same steps still be in play?
That will happen within 6 weeks, but you should still be able to update normally. Why are you considering to remove the Internet?
Read the section Unsupported in https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007391412 for further implications of remaining with Win 7.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooten: I am talking about what I will do in 2020 on my machines that still have Windows 7. Since I'm on fixed income, I'm thinking my solution at that time will be to buy a refurbished computer with Windows 10 already on it. That way I can keep using my older equipment.
But even if I bought a version of Windows 10 Pro, and put it on my current main PC, I will still have Windows 7 on my laptop.
The steps listed above in this post were for updating resources on another computer. But I wasn't clear as to whether they applied to when your software is updated to a newer version. I'm thinking strictly of January 2020. Like someone said, though, the newer updates of the software itself at that time probably won't work on Windows 7...so I will have to be content to strictly move my library resources to the laptop once mid January comes upon us, and even some of those might not work.
Sorry if I wasn't clear, and thank you for your time.
Paul
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Paul,
Sorry I misunderstood what you were asking.
Basically when Microsoft stops supporting Windows 7 in 2020, you will still have internet access, and if you have Logos installed, it will still work, and will still download new resources as you purchase them.
You will also be able to update the software until such a time that Logos starts using a dotnet feature that Microsoft does not release for Windows 7.
Even at that point, your Logos will likely still function as expected, and will still download new resources as needed, until such a time as there is a security issue such as the certificate problem last year that meant old version of Logos, whilst still functioning, would no longer be able to download new resources. This was a bit of a rare case, doubtful will see similar happening soon again, but its not a zero chance.
I would not think Faithlife will invest limited resources into providing an alternative way of installing resources on an offline computer.
You could also upgrade the laptop to Windows 10, I think system requirements are almost identical.
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Paul L. White said:
For those of us with Windows 7 on our machines, the requirement for Windows 10 starting January of 2020 brings something of a dilemma. We are going to have to either purchase that OS and install it on each of our current computers, or simply buy another one with Windows 10 already on it.
By the way, Microsoft is silently still supporting free upgrades from Win 7 to Win 10. Just install Windows 10 on top of Win 7, or do a fresh install and enter a Win 7 product key, and Windows 10 will be fully activated. There's no need to purchase anything from Microsoft to accomplish an upgrade.
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Jan Krohn said:
By the way, Microsoft is silently still supporting free upgrades from Win 7 to Win 10.
I didn't know that, which makes this a very valuable reply. Thanks, Jan! I just did this and everything worked fine, activation (silent; it just does it) and all.
For additional details, I found this page: https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
macOS (Logos Pro - Beta) | Android 13 (Logos Stable)
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I thought that 10 cannot be installed over 7, that it needs a clean install. In fact, Windows recommends buying a new computer instead of installing it.
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Windows 10 can definitely be upgraded from windows 7, however i am not sure if the free program is still available. If not might have to pay a fee. However upgrading to windows 10 might if the computer is too old suffer from performance degradation and slowness.
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I asked if 10 can be installed over 7, without cleaning the hard drive and then installing.
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Larry Craig:
The instructions that come with the software say that you can install with a choice: leave the programs on it, leaving the programs in place, or install removing the programs, which means you'd have to reinstall them.
I am planning to leave the programs in place when I upgrade mine (purchased a Windows 10 on USB). And, from the comments here, it looks like it's best to install only on my PC, not my laptop. The laptop is already slower than the PC, even though the hardware configuration is almost identical.
I'm beginning to wonder if Logos is now already at the stage where you need Windows 10? This last update really took a lot of work to install. Rebooting the machine, three indexing processes, on and on. It's never been that difficult before. Blessings.
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Larry Craig:
PS Either choice you make, you install *over* Windows 7.
When I first started in the computer industry (30 years ago), it was recommended that you do as you suggest, and start with a clean hard drive. My guess is that, in recent years, Windows has significantly improved its upgrade process. That's my hope, anyway.
But your idea used to be the standard among computer professionals. I just don't want to take the time to reinstall everything, especially since Logos now has all of its data on drive C. Salute!
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Thanks, Paul.
I wish I could say I feel easier about getting 10 and installing it over 7, but I don't. Especially when they recommend getting a new computer. Not enough to clean the hard drive, But then my computer was built for me by my computer guy and I asked for 7 instead of 8.
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Larry Craig said:
Not enough to clean the hard drive
What do you mean by this?
I am known as a Mac user, but there was a time when I used windows. I would wipe the hard drive every couple of years because windows NEEDS it. I'd recommend you back up your things and do the same!
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Years ago all the programs came on disks. Now everything has to be downloaded. I can back up files, but I'm told that programs need to be installed and not just copied.
The thought of having to rebuild everything from scratch is depressing.
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Larry Craig said:
The thought of having to rebuild everything from scratch is depressing.
If you buy a new computer, the same would need to be done.
If you wait for Win 7 EOL in just a few months, the same would need to be done.
If your hard disk is really that full that an upgrade to Win 10 no longer works, I doubt it's possible to delay rebuilding everything from scratch much longer that early 2020. But it's still enough time to think about how to reduce the effort to a minimum.
My idea would be to buy a new HDD or even SSD (at least double the size of your current one), and for your old HDD a casing with USB connector, so you can always connect it back to your computer and access all your files, and you keep the old HDD in that casing until you're at least100% certain that everything that you still need has been copied over.
When I do a full wipe, I always make a list of downloads and license keys beforehand. This is also always a good opportunity to make a decision about every piece of software whether it's still needed.
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Thank you. I really appreciate it.
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Jan Krohn said:
My idea would be to buy a new HDD or even SSD (at least double the size of your current one), and for your old HDD a casing with USB connector, so you can always connect it back to your computer and access all your files, and you keep the old HDD in that casing until you're at least100% certain that everything that you still need has been copied over.
Unfortunately many (most!) Macs don't allow for that any more as the drives are attached to the board. When that wasn't the case, that was my strategy as well. I did use an old HDD with a USB case to back up my old MacBook Pro, which was sent off today to be sold.
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JT (alabama24) said:
Unfortunately many (most!) Macs don't allow for that any more as the drives are attached to the board
Yes - but this is a Windows question[:)]
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As long as the forums are merged, I’ll comment when I please. [:P]
Two thoughts: first, my main point followed (I.e. “I used the same advice.”) Second, the comment is still appropriate for many windows computers which do the same.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Jan Krohn said:
When I do a full wipe, I always make a list of downloads and license keys beforehand. This is also always a good opportunity to make a decision about every piece of software whether it's still needed.
You also have to know if software is still supported i.e. visit their website to see if there is a version for 10. Note that an in-place upgrade of 10 will reinstall what it can, advise you to reinstall after the upgrade, or tell you it is incompatible!
However, I have been able to install software that was designed for Win 95! But the crucial issue is whether your peripherals will still work e.g. drivers and software for printers.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
You also have to know if software is still supported i.e. visit their website to see if there is a version for 10. Note that an in-place upgrade of 10 will reinstall what it can, advise you to reinstall after the upgrade, or tell you it is incompatible!
Excellent point! This is usually not a problem for free software, as it gets updated to support newer Windows versions regularly. It can become an issue with paid software easily.
Dave Hooton said:However, I have been able to install software that was designed for Win 95! But the crucial issue is whether your peripherals will still work e.g. drivers and software for printers.
Printer drivers can usually be installed via Windows Update (unless you have a really exotic printer). The new Windows 10 driver for my HP OfficeJet that came through Windows Update is even better and provides more functions than the original Windows 8 driver that was shipped with the device.
But it can work the other way too. The generic Win 10 scanner driver for my device has no way to access the buttons on my scanner. That's quite inconvenient for multi-page documents. But as long as the scanner operates via software controls, why scrap it? (Any device without Win 10 support is likely at the end of its life span anyway.)
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Paul L. White said:
For those of us with Windows 7 on our machines, the requirement for Windows 10 starting January of 2020 brings something of a dilemma. We are going to have to either purchase that OS and install it on each of our current computers, or simply buy another one with Windows 10 already on it.
Just so you know, you are still able to update a validly-licensed copy of Windows 7 to Windows 10 without charge. Microsoft had a program in place for this that technically expired in 2016. However, you can still use the method to install Windows 10 for free on your Windows 7 computer. It's legal and legit. I did it about 2 months ago on my mom's Windows 7 computer.
Here is the link: Here's how you can still get a free Windows 10 upgrade
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Bill Anderson,
Thank you so much. And man do I wish I had heard from you back in April! :-)
The phrase "it's legal and legit" is what I couldn't get from my Googled sources. I kept reading "I'm not a lawyer, but...." and then "you can download."
So, since I want this for purposes of personal and, I hope, once-again, church ministry, I thought I'd better *make sure* I was legal, and bought a USB drive version of Windows 10 Professional from Amazon.
I sure appreciate your advice, and time, and information. I am going to save that link, in case I want to try doing that on my laptop. But I think it's a bit too old for Windows 10, as it is slower than the PC I'm now using, but has almost identical configuration (except for the video card added to this machine).
Gotta love advice from someone with the same name as one of my favorite Country Music singers!!! [:D]
Oh, PS: this machine I am using is a "refurbished" one bought 2 or 3 years ago from Sears. A technician worked on it to add memory, an extra hard drive for data, and remove all of the viruses (both my laptop and this machine are "refurbished" versions, and both had 26 viruses that needed to be removed).
What I'm *hoping*, and I may be just ignorant, is that, by having a full and paid for version, it can correct any deficiencies that were in the refurbished version of Windows 7. I presume the refurishers do some sort of gerry-rigging to make the install process faster, and it may not be a perfect install from them. I, obviously, don't know for sure, but hope I'm removing any doubtful installation issues with this purchased version of Windows 10. Blessings.
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Paul L. White said:
What I'm *hoping*, and I may be just ignorant, is that, by having a full and paid for version, it can correct any deficiencies that were in the refurbished version of Windows 7. I presume the refurishers do some sort of gerry-rigging to make the install process faster,
If you didn't get an original MS Win install disk, the Win 7 license could be 'invalid' and you'll have problems when trying to install on top of Win 7 (particularly with a free Win 10). Doing a fresh install with your paid version (wiping Win 7) would avoid any problems.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave,
Arrgh! :-) I just finished finding a way to get the product key with a vbs script I copied and pasted into notepad, and saved as a .vbs file. So I will be sure and print those out before I start with Windows 10 install.
I was thinking I would go ahead and *try* to install Windows 10 over the Win 7, and let it keep the programs, just to see what would happen. I presume the option of Installing and removing the programs would still exist, if that first process didn't work.
Are you saying that you have to manually delete everything on Drive C *before* the Win 10 install? I keep my data files, for the most part, on a separate hard drive ("D"), and was planning to back those up before installing Windows 10.
If you choose to do a "fresh install," will Windows 10 go head and wipe the hard drive for you? Thanks.
PS I think it's possible, is it not, to save the Logos data files, before Windows 10 installs, to a data drive, then copy them back after it is finished, and save the 13 or 14 hours necessary to download and install a new Logos version?
Thanks for your time.
As a footnote, and you seem to be an administrator type person, I really respect Graham Criddle, and feel he was disrespected after his comment. Do I have a right to complain about that? Thanks.
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Paul L. White said:
PS I think it's possible, is it not, to save the Logos data files, before Windows 10 installs, to a data drive, then copy them back after it is finished, and save the 13 or 14 hours necessary to download and install a new Logos version?
Please see https://wiki.logos.com/Quick_Installation_onto_multiple_computers for some options on this (choose either Option 2 or 3)
Paul L. White said:As a footnote, and you seem to be an administrator type person, I really respect Graham Criddle, and feel he was disrespected after his comment. Do I have a right to complain about that? Thanks.
And please don't feel any need to complain on my behalf - I didn't feel any disrepect at all! But I appreciate your concern.
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Thank you, Graham. Saved the link.
Appreciate your other note as well. Salute!
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Paul L. White said:
If you choose to do a "fresh install," will Windows 10 go head and wipe the hard drive for you? Thanks.
No, it will move all files belonging to the previous Windows version to a new folder WINDOWS.OLD. You can choose to wipe your C: drive though, so be extra careful during installation not to pick the wrong option.
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