Wisdom on Beta Release

I am beginning to see a lot of "Hopefully before the 4.0 release, if not then probably as 4.0a or something" type answers which implies a release date for v4 exists in house and has been set in stone..

I think the software is developing nicely and in the right direction, but I for one would rather you spent an extra month or so getting the software to a point where a "quick fix" post release isnt rushed out to fix those beta test gremlins..

Yes I am eager for v4, but dont want you to rush an unfinished and therefore unworthy product out there which could potentially damage your reputation.

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spitzerpl

I am beginning to see a lot of "Hopefully before the 4.0 release, if not then probably as 4.0a or something" type answers which implies a release date for v4 exists in house and has been set in stone..

Bob has mentioned that all eyes are focused on a fixed date.

I think the software is developing nicely and in the right direction, but I for one would rather you spent an extra month or so getting the software to a point where a "quick fix" post release isnt rushed out to fix those beta test gremlins..

I would be content with a 4.0 release consisting of only the features current in the beta minus the bugs. There are some things I would like to see...like printing, which may just be held back from the betas for now to decrease the variables causing bugs, but I already have a hard time going back to 3.X, which tells me 4.0 is better at the vast majority of things I do with Logos plus some things I couldn't do, or were too complicated to try, in 3.X.

Yes I am eager for v4, but dont want you to rush an unfinished and therefore unworthy product out there which could potentially damage your reputation.

The impression I have gotten is that with the complexity of marketing, development, etc. the train has passed the point of no return and the Logos Devs can count on not sleeping much before "the date" :-)

Simon’s Brother

I am beginning to see a lot of "Hopefully before the 4.0 release, if not then probably as 4.0a or something" type answers which implies a release date for v4 exists in house and has been set in stone..

I think the software is developing nicely and in the right direction, but I for one would rather you spent an extra month or so getting the software to a point where a "quick fix" post release isnt rushed out to fix those beta test gremlins..

Yes I am eager for v4, but dont want you to rush an unfinished and therefore unworthy product out there which could potentially damage your reputation.

I relate very much to your sentiment but I think whatever happens this needs to be out the door before or at the time of Zondervan products being released. It wouldn't be good to give them L3 for a month or two and then switch them over to L4 which is totally diferent. L4 might even be a slightly better fit for those coming from Pradis in terms of general look of the applicaton but with the bonus of all the extra features that you simply don't get in Pradis.

Now whether there is an even earlier date than this Logos has in concrete... I don't want to speculate too much on that ...4.0 will arrive when it arrives... hey its already arrived for us privelleged beta testers....

J.R. Miller

I think the software is developing nicely and in the right direction, but I for one would rather you spent an extra month or so getting the software to a point where a "quick fix" post release isnt rushed out to fix those beta test gremlins..

Dominic, you also need to consider how companies work. Logos needs the capital from the release to continue development. In an ideal world, everything comes at once, but in reality, it costs money to pay the developers and the money comes from sales. Logos is banking on the new 4.0 opening up some new market and more revenues and that money will add the next set of features. It will also pay for the Mac development since the Mac sales helped pay for the 4.0 development.

So unless you are looking to invest a few hundred thousand into books in the next week or two, I think Logos' strategy is what you will have to live with.

Damian McGrath

It will also pay for the Mac development since the Mac sales helped pay for the 4.0 development.

I'm not even sure whether the Mac sales would have paid for the initial Mac development.....

So unless you are looking to invest a few hundred thousand into books in the next week or two, I think Logos' strategy is what you will have to live with.

I'm also sure that we'll have to live with the release schedule that has already been set. My guess is that the publicity materials are already at the publishers from the way Bob's been talking. Does that mean that I'd recommend that anyone purchase 4.0? No. I'd recommend that they wait 6 months until some of the issues have been resolved. Luckily no one ever asks my opinion about bible software

On a side note: I've been involved in a couple of Beta testing programs (not as many as a number who are involved here). I can't remember any which had a set date for release at the start of Beta testing. How can a software company know how long it will take to identify and resolve the bugs that are discovered during this process?

J.R. Miller

It will also pay for the Mac development since the Mac sales helped pay for the 4.0 development.

I'm not even sure whether the Mac sales would have paid for the initial Mac development.....

No need to speculate on your part. Bob made mention of this in another thread and that is why I repeated his statement here.

does that mean that I'd recommend that anyone purchase 4.0? No. I'd recommend that they wait 6 months

Well, it seems Bob has set a release date before Beta testing and you have already made up your mind that the release will not meet your standards based on a beta 3.

Personally, I will wait until the RC version comes out before making any firm conclusions.

Damian McGrath

you have already made up your mind that the release will not meet your standards based on a beta 3

Am I that obvious?

Actually, I'm basing my decision (to date) on the responses that have been received on this forum to the very real concerns which I and others have raised about issues such as downloads, indexing, and the inability to delete resources. These would have to be addressed before I could recommend the program to others. I know that these will eventually be addressed - but, from what has been said to date by Bob and various Logos employees, they will not be addressed until after the release of 4.0.

As for me, I quite like Logos 4.0 and have only used Logos 3 on about 3 occasions in the last few weeks. On issues related to the responsiveness of the program, another issue of concern for me given the specs of my two computers, I am very happy to wait and see what level of optimisation occurs. And I am confident that all the other issues which I have raised will be addressed one way or another.

Dave Hooton

Yes I am eager for v4, but dont want you to rush an unfinished and therefore unworthy product out there which could potentially damage your reputation.

I agree as new and cross-over users will be as confused as we are about resource management and be much less forgiving!

I am also concerned about the number of features that are still a work-in-progress as this is not normal for Beta testing:-

- Prioritize (this must be enhanced)

- various Guides and Bible Facts

- Syntax Search, Morph Search

- Bible Search (index issues)

- inline Search command prompts (BEFORE, AND, OR etc)

- Help files

These need to be finalised by Beta 5. If not I would consider dropping some features for improved resource management:-

- Syntax Search (too immature/clumsy & NT resources not sufficiently advanced over L3)

- Word suggestions for Search (slows/hinders input & can suggest an exactness that isn't necessary)

Melissa Snyder

Hi Dave,

- inline Search command prompts (BEFORE, AND, OR etc)

- Help files

You should be able to type search queries using those operators, both in the Search panel and Command bar.
To type it as a command try: Bible Search for faith AND joy.
Help files are partially available now and will be complete by the time 4.0 is released. There are some beta testers who have not gotten the help resource downloaded successfully from the server yet, but should get it with Beta 4.

Rich DeRuiter

Yes I am eager for v4, but dont want you to rush an unfinished and therefore unworthy product out there which could potentially damage your reputation.

I could only guess, but I'm assuming they're trying to get this out by Christmas. Maybe Jan 1, 2010.

If I worked there, I'd be sure to suggest that the shipping date is delayed until at least a month after Windows 7 is released. That way the new 'unwanted features' of Win7 will be mostly worked out before L4 ships. It would make things much easier on Logos tech support.

Dave Hooton

You should be able to type search queries using those operators, both in the Search panel and Command bar.
To type it as a command try: Bible Search for faith AND joy.

Melissa, I was referring to the lack of prompts for search operators. We get excessive prompting for a word but no assistance with search operators. v3 showed that the HELP documentation was inadequate - people need help and prompts in the Search bar.

Jon

If I worked there, I'd be sure to suggest that the shipping date is delayed until at least a month after Windows 7 is released. That way the new 'unwanted features' of Win7 will be mostly worked out before L4 ships. It would make things much easier on Logos tech support.

Having been using the Win7 Beta and Release candidate over the past 6 months it has been incredibly stable and a vast improvement on XP and Vista; you get a whole ran of UI improvements yet a smaller resource footprint and much improved performance doing basic OS tasks... I think this will be the easiest Windows transition there's been... (no I don't have anything to do with Microsoft [:D])

Rich DeRuiter

Having been using the Win7 Beta and Release candidate over the past 6 months it has been incredibly stable and a vast improvement on XP and Vista;

I'm looking forward to Oct 22. That's not the point. Somewhere, someone's upgrade to Win7 will mess something up. An L4 installation may also cause a user some trouble (that's been the case in this discussion group). If you install both at the same time, who's to know which program caused which problem? It's a trouble-shooting nightmare.

Put that together with MS' reputation of putting out an OS that is not fully backwards compatible with software and hardware, and the decision matrix seems pretty clear. Even with the extensive beta testing going in with Win7, history is still a demanding teacher.

Anyway, if it were my company I'd wait. But then I don't really expect L4 to be out before Christmas/Jan1 anyway.